Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from NevadaNutJob:I don’t believe they’re blind - just optimists . They know the risks .
nah, I think a lot of them have totally drank the Kool Aid and as the evidence mounted higher and higher it turned into a cope fest of "well its a gamble". When the games aren't delivered theres gonna be a lot of these guys
2f7 (resized).jpgQuoted from benheck:Let's be honest. To a rich pinhead 8k risked on a pin is like a $1 scratcher to a redneck.
Yes, except the $1 scratcher has a better chance of paying out, so who's smarter, the rich pinhead or the redneck?
Quoted from Haymaker:nah, I think a lot of them have totally drank the Kool Aid and as the evidence mounted higher and higher it turned into a cope fest of "well its a gamble". When the games aren't delivered theres gonna be a lot of these guys
[quoted image]
Kind of agree with this I guess, but Nobody likes to admit to being taken or not making the best choice. It's not done yet officially. We all rationalize some things to make it right in our heads or reduce stress. I think everybody has purchased something in hindsight that wasn't money well spent or met expectations. The root thing isn't done yet, though many think it doesn't look good. Others think it will happen though even though it's a long saga with little to show so far other than some prototypes and not much else except communication of delays, etc.
Generally we like to believe in people and sometimes it doesn't work out. When it doesn't, you have to make peace in your head about it. I don't blame them for saying it's a gamble. If that helps somebody during the wait for a conclusion one way or another that's alright.
Too me it doesn't look good. I wouldn't do it. But if somebody else wants to "gamble" that's their choice. I think all the preorder folks know the what they have gotten in to. They have been offered the chance to get out if they like.
Personally I wouldn't go in on a venture like this. Also I thought the protype was mediocre anyway. Not even considering the issues of pinbar and all the other baggage not worth Any risked dollars in my view for a RAZA . But it's the buyer's decision...
Quoted from NoQuarters:Kind of agree with this I guess, but Nobody likes to admit to being taken or not making the best choice. It's not done yet officially. We all rationalize some things to make it right in our heads or reduce stress. I think everybody has purchased something in hindsight that wasn't money well spent or met expectations. The root thing isn't done yet, though many think it doesn't look good. Others think it will happen though even though it's a long saga with little to show so far other than some prototypes and not much else except communication of delays, etc.
Generally we like to believe in people and sometimes it doesn't work out. When it doesn't, you have to make peace in your head about it. I don't blame them for saying it's a gamble. If that helps somebody during the wait for a conclusion one way or another that's alright.
Too me it doesn't look good. I wouldn't do it. But if somebody else wants to "gamble" that's their choice. I think all the preorder folks know the what they have gotten in to. They have been offered the chance to get out if they like.
Personally I wouldn't go in on a venture like this. Also I thought the protype was mediocre anyway. Not even considering the issues of pinbar and all the other baggage not worth Any risked dollars in my view for a RAZA . But it's the buyer's decision...
I don't disagree with any of this
Hey if Robert wants to waste even more money building the damn things (probably at a loss for every unit) then I guess that's a boon for the buyers.
But it's a hard strategy to comprehend. As some have said, must be fueled purely by ego.
I still doubt any get out the door - but if they do purely done on ego. No line, etc - I still don't see how it gets done. Even if it would happen what becomes of these things down the road and where do parts or support come from ?
Boon or Boondoggle ?
July update will likely be just more of the same. Waiting on parts, certifications etc etc. Really doubt it will happen.
Thread’s been a little slow lately. As a way to keep us entertained during the interminable wait, I suggest we post little nuggets on all Jpops or DR’s bloopers over the years.
I’ll start. How about when Jpop put his custom length glass on his newly designed cabinet for the first time and expressed genuine surprise that the glass barely cleared the shooter rod? “The Inventor” indeed.
Quoted from benheck:Hey if Robert wants to waste even more money building the damn things (probably at a loss for every unit) then I guess that's a boon for the buyers.
But it's a hard strategy to comprehend. As some have said, must be fueled purely by ego.
Well..good or bad, there's something to be said for following through. It would probably make these the most expensive pinball machines ever built.
Quoted from Zablon:Well..good or bad, there's something to be said for following through. It would probably make these the most expensive pinball machines ever built.
Never thought about it like that but if the spend was $20mm and they built 130, then shut down, you are looking at a pinball machine that cost over $150,000 per machine!
Quoted from Oldgoat:Never thought about it like that but if the spend was $20mm and they built 130, then shut down, you are looking at a pinball machine that cost over $150,000 per machine!
I wonder if something like Data East King Kong could beat it. They probably spent a million* designing it and built only nine prototypes. That’s about $112k a machine.
*I say a million because I’ve heard some Williams employees say a 90s game cost about $1-1.5m to develop. But DE likely didn’t invest as much in making titles
Maybe DR can tap into the $250B innovation fund. I mean Pinbar has to be national priority for emerging tech, right ?
Quoted from guitarded:If the Lottery is a Tax on the Stupid...what is DR?
A tax on FOMO?
Quoted from guitarded:If the Lottery is a Tax on the Stupid...what is DR?
The lottery is specifically a tax on the mathematically challenged, not the Stupid, although the two demographic groups are not mutually exclusive. DR is not a tax on the Stupid, but more like an inconvenient fee on the ignorant because so many people are "ignoring" some pretty bright crimson red flags, and looking at the loss as "tolerable". Some of us are not as fortunate or successful to toss our money around so nonchalantly.
Quoted from Bublehead:The lottery is specifically a tax on the mathematically challenged, not the Stupid, although the two demographic groups are not mutually exclusive. DR is not a tax on the Stupid, but more like an inconvenient fee on the ignorant because so many people are "ignoring" some pretty bright crimson red flags, and looking at the loss as "tolerable". Some of us are not as fortunate or successful to toss our money around so nonchalantly.
I think of the lottery as a license to dream for 5 minutes a week on what i would do with 500,000,000 bucks! $5 is worth it!! Better chances winning the lottery than getting a dr machine.
Quoted from Roostking:Better chances winning the lottery than getting a dr machine.
I mean, he's not wrong. People win the lottery all the time.
Quoted from yancy:I mean, he's not wrong. People win the lottery all the time.
More people have won the lottery than will ever own a RAZA #facts
Quoted from Geddy2112:When deepR00t $hit$ the beD can mR. HEcK start please start a thread that keeps thrashing J p00P it's so entertaining. That's the only reason I follow this thread I know I'm sad
JPOOP already has enough threads here, bashing him.
And dont be sad, play pinball!
Quoted from Bublehead:Yes, except the $1 scratcher has a better chance of paying out, so who's smarter, the rich pinhead or the redneck?
What if you are both a rich redneck pinhead? 
I don’t mind you guys calling me stupid, redneck or otherwise. I’ll take it as a compliment
I know it gets old attacking DR non stop so throw the buyers into the equation to pass the time and mix it up
Quoted from iceman44:What if you are both a rich redneck pinhead?
Then just send me all your pinball money, because I can't possibly spend it any worse than a rich redneck can, can I? 
Quoted from Bublehead:Then just send me all your pinball money, because I can't possibly spend it any worse than a rich redneck can, can I?
Remains to be seen don’t it Bubble? Lol
Giddy up!
I think there are a few rich guys who clearly don’t give a fuck about losing several grand because they’re already spending like $30k a year in frivolous toys.
And then there are some normal hobbyists who can only afford a new game on occasion.
The later should not take advice from the former.
If I’m going to give the buyers shit, it’s going to be to the ones who are doing this as a speculative flip. So many better ways to gamble…
Quoted from iceman44:I don’t mind you guys calling me stupid, redneck or otherwise.
Lol. He blocked me for calling him a boomer a couple months ago. He minds…
Quoted from TreyBo69:He blocked me for calling him a boomer a couple months ago.
Welcome to the club.
Quoted from iceman44:Got me a can of snuff for tonight so I’m ready to go!
Real Scottish Snuff, or American worm dirt?, because I love UK snuff (got hooked on it back when I was doing patrols out of Holy Loch Scotland), but you can keep the Copenhagen for yourself, I tried that in bootcamp and no amount of peer pressure was going to make me want to keep just a pinch between my cheek and gum to experience that great, all day tobacco flavor... but you do you Iceman.
I thought snuff was powdered tobacco you snorted like a coke head. Snus is a teabag like thing you keep in your cheek. And dip is loose tobacco that you keep in your cheek. Maybe it’s just regional semantics
Never liked dip the few times I tried (and dip cups are super gross). But I did snus for a spell in college when I was also trying cigarettes, cigars, hookah, and pipe tobacco.
Filthy habit. Now I just stick to the greens
Quoted from Mr68:Welcome to the club.
[quoted image]
The Whitebread Club? j/k
Quoted from Mr68:Welcome to the club.
[quoted image]
Someone should start a "Why Ice blocked me" thread.
Quoted from Bublehead:Real Scottish Snuff, or American worm dirt?, because I love UK snuff (got hooked on it back when I was doing patrols out of Holy Loch Scotland), but you can keep the Copenhagen for yourself, I tried that in bootcamp and no amount of peer pressure was going to make me want to keep just a pinch between my cheek and gum to experience that great, all day tobacco flavor... but you do you Iceman.
Just kidding. My brother used to dip skoal and he finally quit. Nasty stuff and terrible for you.
My grandfather was a tobacco farmer in NC, I tried a chew one time and that was enough for me for good. Swallowed it, got sick and threw up. Lol
Never smoked a day in my life either. Pot or otherwise.
Quoted from iceman44:My grandfather was a tobacco farmer in NC
Mine was too in Kentucky, he chewed "Mail Pouch, treat yourself to the best"
Quoted from iceman44:Just kidding. My brother used to dip skoal and he finally quit. Nasty stuff and terrible for you.
My grandfather was a tobacco farmer in NC, I tried a chew one time and that was enough for me for good. Swallowed it, got sick and threw up. Lol
Never smoked a day in my life either. Pot or otherwise.
When I was a kid, all of the construction workers building houses dipped Skoal wintergreen snuff. Man, do I love the smell of wintergreen, so I knew this stuff had to be like Wint-O-green lifesvers on steriods. One day, I was maybe 12, a friend of mine scored some. Opened the tin, that beautiful deep wintergreen scent wafting up to my nose, I grabbed a very generous wad of it and put it between my cheek and gum. If you've never tried it, trust me, it doesn't taste anything like a Wint-O-Green lifesaver. And, of course, being a boy, age 12, rather than be subjected to the ridicule of my friends, I had to suffer for a good 15 minutes before I spit it out. Needless to say, that was my first and last experience with it (althought I did try chewing tobacco later in life, didn't much care for that either)
Quoted from TreyBo69:I think there are a few rich guys who clearly don’t give a fuck about losing several grand because they’re already spending like $30k a year in frivolous toys.
And then there are some normal hobbyists who can only afford a new game on occasion.
Most "normal" people cannot afford a pin let alone a $6000-$10000 nib pin.
Quoted from jawjaw:Most "normal" people cannot afford a pin let alone a $6000-$10000 nib pin.
Semantics. Pinball isn't the only expensive hobby. There are 1000's of expensive hobbies out there...or just people who spend thousands on smoking/alcohol etc. Has way more to do with priorities of what people are willing to spend money on.
Quoted from Zablon:Semantics. Pinball isn't the only expensive hobby. There are 1000's of expensive hobbies out there...or just people who spend thousands on smoking/alcohol etc. Has way more to do with priorities of what people are willing to spend money on.
No idea what you are on about. Point was we are all rich. Just because you only spend $8000 a year on expensive hobbies doesn't make you any different than a "dumb" rich guy spending 5x that.
Can we change the name of this thread to DeepRoot: A primer on Pinball Manufacturing Delays -or- How I learned to cope and tread quicksand?
It's either that or Snuffaluffagas: The art of Smokeless Tobacco Enjoyment
Because we have clearly jumped the rails (or the shark) in this thread.
Quoted from jawjaw:No idea what you are on about. Point was we are all rich. Just because you only spend $8000 a year on expensive hobbies doesn't make you any different than a "dumb" rich guy spending 5x that.
Yes it does. What you see around here by a few is this dismissal of anyone questioning prices as if someone having 10k is the same as someone having 100k, which was the point of your post and the post you were quoting. The richer you are the less you care if you are being taken advantage of when it comes to cost. The 'majority' of pinball collectors are not uber rich people and the uber rich people fail to grasp the concept of saving $$ where you can - especially if they were never poor. Then they play the 'be glad you can afford it' card, as if that somehow negates anything. It's a difference in mentality that as the years pass, you can tell some people simply do not give a damn about other people.
Your 'most normal' people point was what I was on about. Because the majority of people spend the bulk of their money on SOMETHING, it just might not be pinball. Trying to pull in the very poor is just trying to make people feel guilty and if you (or others) are that concerned about others ability to pay for necessities there are plenty of ways to contribute to that.
Quoted from Zablon:The richer you are the less you care if you are being taken advantage of when it comes to cost. The 'majority' of pinball collectors are not uber rich people and the uber rich people fail to grasp the concept of saving $$ where you can - especially if they were never poor.
That's an awfully wide brush you are painting with.
Pinball "used" to be a hobby of cast offs and bottom feeders trying to save a little coin on their pinball playing addiction. Back then pinball was a money making industry for the coin operated vendors, and ONLY the people in the industry or rich people had any NIB pins in their home. Now used pinball? That was everywhere... once a title stopped earning, it was stripped for parts and junked, or if they already had enough parts, possible sold on to other ops, or to the home market. This new renaissance of pinball is a home market explosion as people with money have become interested and dropping serious "collector" amounts of money to have nice things. And it seems the newer and more pristine, the better, almost to the point of pure braggadocio. All my old pinball friends fall into the "not got a lot of money" and so they still pay on site to play, or as my one friend put it, borrowing from Steven Wright, " I have the largest pinball collection that I keep in bars, bowling alleys, arcades, and skating rinks around the world".
Quoted from RobT:That's an awfully wide brush you are painting with.
Exactly. I never met anyone that loves pissing away money and doesn't care if they get ripped off.
Quoted from Makakka:Is braggadocio in case of a delivered RAZA allowed here?
Sure, of course. I'd expect quite a lot of it actually.
Quoted from jawjaw:Exactly. I never met anyone that loves pissing away money and doesn't care if they get ripped off.
Take a trip down to Boerne, Texas sometime! I got just the guy for you.
Quoted from RobT:That's an awfully wide brush you are painting with.
Yeah it is, same as his comment.
Quoted from jawjaw:Exactly. I never met anyone that loves pissing away money and doesn't care if they get ripped off.
You'd never know it with the apologists around here.
The best part is the people telling others not to tell them how to spend their money, as they tell people if they don't like the prices get out of the hobby. People can pretend that everyone is 'rich', but there is a clear gap with income between people (Not an issue, just an observation) which indeed does impact how they approach the hobby.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/379?hl=greenhornet and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Rockford, IL
Flensburg