Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from Mbecker:If I had preordered and we’re at July and rm says no pinbar, I’d expect a discount at least? Highly unlikely, but seems reasonable given first the BS of shipping in Feb when they weren’t ready at all, and then dropping parts out of th build (regardless of how desired or undesired it was).
Hahahhahaha.
Founder, president, and spokesman for company: We're making progress, next update in a few weeks.
Reaction: Argle Bargle! All is lost! Bail out of this mess!
Un-named, anonymous, unconfirmed source: Parts are way backordered. It's gonna be months.
Reaction: Hurray! Proof that all is well!
How did we get to this point?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Because maybe some people who placed orders did because they liked the PinBar?
Nobody likes the PinBar.
Quoted from RCA1:Founder, president, and spokesman for company: We're making progress, next update in a few weeks.
Reaction: Argle Bargle! All is lost! Bail out of this mess!
Un-named, anonymous, unconfirmed source: Parts are way backordered. It's gonna be months.
Reaction: Hurray! Proof that all is well!
How did we get to this point?
You are witnessing 2 different camps reacting to 2 different things.
It find it ironic that I ordered an AT games Legends Pinball on Wednesday and it shipped today. This is a game that has been on permanent back order since it first debuted in January, a crappy $800 virtual pin. Only in our little insulated world do we put a deposit down, be told it’s gonna ship 2 months later and then when it looks like it’s in fact going to be delayed a year or more ( if it ships at all) go to mat to defend the manufacturer that can’t get its act together. If looking for the definition of Fan Boy one need look no further than the RAZA thread.
Quoted from pookycade:It find it ironic that I ordered an AT games Legends Pinball on Wednesday and it shipped today. This is a game that has been on permanent back order since it first debuted in January, a crappy $800 virtual pin. Only in our little insulated world do we put a deposit down, be told it’s gonna ship 2 months later and then when it looks like it’s in fact going to be delayed a year or more ( if it ships at all) go to mat to defend the manufacturer that can’t get its act together. If looking for the definition of Fan Boy one need look no further than the RAZA thread.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fanboy
It's not even fanboyism. It's what is becoming even more common these days in that people do not want to admit when they are wrong and instead double down just to 'stick it' to the haters. Additionally, none of those people are hanging on because they really really want to play the game. They are hanging on because they think they are going to get a super rare pin that they can 'brag about' and/or flip. It's just gambling at this point. Maybe they will get it, maybe they won't. If they only have ~$600 wrapped up in it and aren't hurting for money, it's not really that big of a deal overall to the individual. To many here buying NiB pinball machines that is chump change and they spend more than that on a weekend out.
Quoted from Mbecker:If I had preordered and we’re at July and rm says no pinbar, I’d expect a discount at least? Highly unlikely, but seems reasonable given first the BS of shipping in Feb when they weren’t ready at all, and then dropping parts out of th build (regardless of how desired or undesired it was).
People have the opportunity to drop out now if they don’t like it and get their money back
Most people don’t care because we are already getting a big discount and credits
After reading the news on Pinlawyer none of this seems to matter much in the grand scheme of things
Quoted from RCA1:Founder, president, and spokesman for company: We're making progress, next update in a few weeks.
Reaction: Argle Bargle! All is lost! Bail out of this mess!
Un-named, anonymous, unconfirmed source: Parts are way backordered. It's gonna be months.
Reaction: Hurray! Proof that all is well!
How did we get to this point?
Maybe because anonymous sources have been more reliable than Robert Mueller who has missed 100% of every milestone he’s promised include delivering a single game. Plus Robert is begging people to bail out and take the refund, so maybe we can believe that?
I’d believe Whimpy was finally gonna pay for that hamburger on Tuesday before I’d believe RM
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Nobody likes the PinBar.
One person loves it.
Quoted from iceman44:Mr Heckendorn!!! I missed you guys
It’s been a no pinball zone for too long for me
Back on my pins. Missed em
And the occasional adult beverage too
And stock tips!
Iceys back!!
Let’s start a sweepstakes on the date/time of his next drunken posting spree! 
Good on ya champ!
rd
Just posing a question? We all saw the email from RM. Buried in it he states that refunds are first come first serve. To me that is a glring red flag that a company is folding. Especially since they have trouble paying employees. Is this me. What do you all think? Again I'm a soon to be x-preorder.
Quoted from Stemmy:Just posing a question? We all saw the email from RM. Buried in it he states that refunds are first come first serve. To me that is a glring red flag that a company is folding. Especially since they have trouble paying employees. Is this me. What do you all think? Again I'm a soon to be x-preorder.
Yes I have typos from drinking. Don't care
Quoted from Stemmy:Just posing a question? We all saw the email from RM. Buried in it he states that refunds are first come first serve. To me that is a glring red flag that a company is folding. Especially since they have trouble paying employees. Is this me. What do you all think? Again I'm a soon to be x-preorder.
This fing game was announced in 2011
MV5BMjUxMDQwNjcyNl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNzcwMzc0MTI@._V1_UY1200_CR90,0,630,1200_AL_ (resized).jpg
Quoted from iceman44:Exactly. I think it was really stupid. Get a few games out and then roll it in
I stayed in because of my local buddies review on how good he thought it was without any bias one way or the other. Pinbar meant nothing
He has hours on the pin
Just get the game out! It’s coming down the road
This is the only reason I'm on the fence.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:This fing game was announced in 2011
[quoted image]
I know but it's like a crack addiction.
Quoted from rotordave:Iceys back!!
Let’s start a sweepstakes on the date/time of his next drunken posting spree!
Good on ya champ!
rd
Two weeks to a month. Certainly before the next DR no news, no progress July "update".
Quoted from RCA1:Founder, president, and spokesman for company: We're making progress, next update in a few weeks.
Reaction: Argle Bargle! All is lost! Bail out of this mess!
Un-named, anonymous, unconfirmed source: Parts are way backordered. It's gonna be months.
Reaction: Hurray! Proof that all is well!
How did we get to this point?
Yup - pretty goofy. A fool and their money are soon parted. And Parted again. Get the money back if you can. This is the longest smoldering dumpster fire - and it would only be a very mediocre game at best, with little to no chance of parts or support in the future. Probably better off buying lotto scratch off tickets with, and if refunds are given. Why anybody has to wait to June 1st to ask for a refund and then refunds being first come first serve does not instill a lot of confidence.
Quoted from thechakapakuni:Plus Robert is begging people to bail out and take the refund
Only one public taker on the refund so far. Seems this is another failed Deeproot maneuver?
Quoted from Zablon:It's not even fanboyism. It's what is becoming even more common these days in that people do not want to admit when they are wrong and instead double down just to 'stick it' to the haters. Additionally, none of those people are hanging on because they really really want to play the game. They are hanging on because they think they are going to get a super rare pin that they can 'brag about' and/or flip. It's just gambling at this point. Maybe they will get it, maybe they won't. If they only have ~$600 wrapped up in it and aren't hurting for money, it's not really that big of a deal overall to the individual. To many here buying NiB pinball machines that is chump change and they spend more than that on a weekend out.
The notion that a pinball company taking ORDERS and pre-money ( 
) needs to behave responsibly and with integrity is now lost on these people. That thread has devolved into “I’m a big boy, if I want to gamble my money I can”.
They should change the name of the thread to “Vegas Baby!”
I’d probably pay $500 myself - to Pinside - for the sheer entertainment value of this situation. But it’s FREE! 
Quoted from Mr68:Only one public taker on the refund so far. Seems this is another failed Deeproot maneuver?
If DeepRoot fails, the blame falls FIRMLY on the shoulders of their CUSTOMERS!
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:WHEN DeepRoot fails, the blame falls FIRMLY on the shoulders of their CUSTOMERS!
Fixed it for ya! 
I'm still thinking "strategic exit" but let's play Devil's Advocate with the PinBar rumor:
Q: Why would PinBar shut down everything else? If PinBar is the major issue then shouldn't the rest be figured out by now? Show us pics of the prepped cabinets!
Let's say your pinball company can't get, I dunno, speakers because of the shortages. You can still build all the games (until you run out of room) testing them with a speaker jig, then install the speakers once they come in.
Unlike speakers the PinBar seems pretty dimensionally integral to the deeproot platform. Removing it could affect the size of the glass lift, the cabinet, even the playfield (the area under the apron you don't see).
If those things are on hold what's left to build while you wait for the PinBar decision? The cabinet backbox? Pull the ramp molds? Wiring harnesses? Not all that much really.
So they're probably vomiting money trying to get PinBar to work while at the same time vomiting money on the backup plan oh and also the "small matter" of completely changing their RAZA game code. From Bowden's blog seems you were gonna spend way, WAY too much time on that f**king PinBar so what's the alternative?
All for 130 games. AGAIN.. . Could be worth it if they have a slam dunk killer LICENSED game ready to go once RAZA is done. But Food Truck? Machine Age? Yeti? Not gonna sell shit.
Some of you were lucky enough to have married loving parents growing up. Instead of a parent that would promise to pick you up when you get out of school on Friday so you two could have the weekend to bond, but they never showed up due to some "excuse" - and it shows! lol.
Quoted from TheCapn:Some of you were lucky enough to have married loving parents growing up. Instead of a parent that would promise to pick you up when you get out of school on Friday so you two could have the weekend to bond, but they never showed up due to some "excuse" - and it shows! lol.
Damn homie. I feel like I just learned something about your childhood.
Ppl arent going to beg for refunds until they know they dr has quit. The deposit is small enough most think the upside of getting this “rare desirable” game is worth risking. If they bail they get no shot… but if they gamble maybe they win!! The deposit is their fomo
But if dr asks for payment before a game is immediately shipping thats where the real test comes in… and only the real gamblers or addicts will call the bet
Quoted from TheCapn:Some of you were lucky enough to have married loving parents growing up. Instead of a parent that would promise to pick you up when you get out of school on Friday so you two could have the weekend to bond, but they never showed up due to some "excuse" - and it shows! lol.
When I was 12 years old my mother was still trying to get an abortion.
Quoted from Mr68:When I was 12 years old my mother was still trying to get an abortion.
Was she ever successful with this endeavor ?
LTG : )
Quoted from flynnibus:Ppl arent going to beg for refunds until they know they dr has quit. The deposit is small enough most think the upside of getting this “rare desirable” game is worth risking. If they bail they get no shot… but if they gamble maybe they win!! The deposit is their fomo
But if dr asks for payment before a game is immediately shipping thats where the real test comes in… and only the real gamblers or addicts will call the bet
Could also be they're going to use the refunds as a way to gauge validity of continuing. But... if they're ok with 130 sales after 30 million invested perhaps there's no floor?
Quoted from benheck:Could also be they're going to use the refunds as a way to gauge validity of continuing. But... if they're ok with 130 sales after 30 million invested perhaps there's no floor?
I think after a point it becomes why work hard if you have already horribly failed? e.g. if I was in their shoes, would I bust by butt to make 130 games, or make as few as I could? If the whole thing is a financial boondoggle where the potential revenue is dwarfed by losses, why would you work harder to double your revenue (especially if you lose money on each sale...).
Quoted from Mr68:When I was 12 years old my mother was still trying to get an abortion.
In the neighborhood where I was raised, you were not a viable fetus until earning a graduate degree.
Quoted from benheck:Could also be they're going to use the refunds as a way to gauge validity of continuing. But... if they're ok with 130 sales after 30 million invested perhaps there's no floor?
They haven’t blown $30 mill on pinball Ben. Lol
And it’s more than the $30 million raised if you look at the latest SEC filing.
It’s all about the 575 fund. Pinball has just been flushing money down the toilet thus far
as an “underlying investment”
Now if you assume a return of 5% on $30 mill that’s an additional $1.5 million per yr of earned interest.
But they have to earn much more than 5% to meet the payout obligations of “575”
Gotta understand the bigger picture here 
Quoted from iceman44:It’s all about the 575 fund. Pinball has just been flushing money down the toilet thus far
Now if you assume a return of 5% on $30 mill that’s an additional $1.5 million per yr of earned interest.
But they have to earn much more than 5% to meet the payout obligations of “575”
Gotta understand the bigger picture here
So pinball is clearly a money pit. So was their Utah art studios.
Are you able to discern where there is any money generated? How can they service $1.5 million a year?
You can see that they keep ADDING funds
FAR from going “bankrupt”
They “earn” interest”, “capital gains”, “dividends” etc from their investments, of which pinball is a losing part of it
My understanding is that no more NEW funds that are raised are allowed to fund the “pinball investment”. Maybe a portion? Who knows
The majority of the monies raised EARN a rate of return that goes to service the 575 payouts. While the pinball portion has been a total failure thus far apparently the overall fund has not and continues to grow!
Quoted from rotordave:Iceys back!!
Let’s start a sweepstakes on the date/time of his next drunken posting spree!
Good on ya champ!
rd
Not gonna happen RD!
Quoted from iceman44:You can see that they keep ADDING funds
FAR from going “bankrupt”
They “earn” interest”, “capital gains”, “dividends” etc from their investments, of which pinball is a losing part of it
My understanding is that no more NEW funds that are raised are allowed to fund the “pinball investment”. Maybe a portion? Who knows
The majority of the monies raised EARN a rate of return that goes to service the 575 payouts. While the pinball portion has been a total failure thus far apparently the overall fund has not and continues to grow!
That kind of makes sense with Robert’s message doesn’t it? It seems the speculation of closing the pinball side is more likely with this information.
So if they dropped the pinball money pit deeproot as an investment fund would be delivering better returns for its clients?
Doesn’t Robert mostly make his money packaging and reselling life insurance policies of the elderly?
Most be very lucrative considering how little the pinball investments will ever produce
His other big money hole was trying to start a local pro soccer club.
Go to thier facebook page for latest update. Dec 2020. https://www.facebook.com/deeprootpinball
Quoted from TreyBo69:His other big money hole was trying to start a local pro soccer club.
Pics of the goalbar?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:So if they dropped the pinball money pit deeproot as an investment fund would be delivering better returns for its clients?
It only delivers “575”. I believe it’s 7% simple interest over 5 years, not compounded, and a 5% bonus on the principal at the end of the term
Might be 5% and 7 yrs. can’t recall.
That’s what the investor is buying into”
This is a REG D Sec filing meaning you have to be an “accredited investor”. You are basically wealthy and state that you know what you are doing in order to receive the prospectus and invest. Lol
The money is raised via “financial advisors” who get paid a commission to sell the product to their clients
They say the fund is supported by life insurance, maybe “life settlements” and “other underlying investments” in the public disclosures
The actual investor might not know anything about the pinball venture, probably doesn’t. They like the “guaranteed return”
How much has pinball harmed the overall fund? I heard the investment committee stopped flow of funds a while back. Before Covid
Bottom line, Robert ain’t going anywhere in the short term
I’m calling the next move... “unfortunately, due to the large number of requests for refunds, it just doesn’t make sense to complete such a small run of RAZA games.” Mid-July maybe?
Quoted from iceman44:It only delivers “575”. I believe it’s 7% simple interest over 5 years, not compounded, and a 5% bonus on the principal at the end of the term
Might be 5% and 7 yrs. can’t recall.
That’s what the investor is buying into”
This is a REG D Sec filing meaning you have to be an “accredited investor”. You are basically wealthy and state that you know what you are doing in order to receive the prospectus and invest. Lol
The money is raised via “financial advisors” who get paid a commission to sell the product to their clients
They say the fund is supported by life insurance, maybe “life settlements” and “other underlying investments” in the public disclosures
The actual investor might not know anything about the pinball venture, probably doesn’t. They like the “guaranteed return”
How much has pinball harmed the overall fund? I heard the investment committee stopped flow of funds a while back. Before Covid
Bottom line, Robert ain’t going anywhere in the short term
If someone stabs you in the leg, your body can continue to live.. but you're probably going to want to put a tourniquet on there to stop the bleeding. Pinball is the stab wound of deeproot.
Ice there's a lot of known costs for DR (many discussed while you were away) such as labor costs, building rental, PPP loans etc.
Amount spent is easily 10+ mil and probably close to 20. It may not be the whole fund but it's still a shit ton.
Quoted from TheCapn:Some of you were lucky enough to have married loving parents growing up. Instead of a parent that would promise to pick you up when you get out of school on Friday so you two could have the weekend to bond, but they never showed up due to some "excuse" - and it shows! lol.
Even worse, once in jr. high me and some of my friends and this “new kid” who was hanging out with us were talking about how much being punished by parents sucks and he basically said something like “are any of your parents still able to chain you to a tree in the backyard?” as if this were a common occurrence that all of us had experienced. He was proud that for the past year or so he had been able break free and run off before they reached the tree.
They had previously lived in a rural area and that was his parents’ standard operating procedure when they didn’t have anyone to watch him for a few hours if they went into town or something. He clarified, that they didn’t trust him to be in the house alone when they were gone and “it’s not like they didn’t leave a jug of water and some snacks for if I got hungry.”
Shortly after that he went to juvie. He did graduate high school, but before I was halfway through college he had received a lengthy (though not life) sentence for 2nd degree murder of another convict (while in prison for attempting to burn down his girlfriends father’s home (since her dad was “keeping them apart”)).
Even before 18, I am not really sure what chance he could have had beyond something extreme like joining the Foreign Legion and starting all over.
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Kellogg, IA