(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

3 years ago

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#17751 32 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

I doubt deeproot planned to produce much of anything at the time of that last update, but I could totally see RM, reading this thread and being driven by an overwhelming desire to make everyone here eat their words, miraculously deliver games on little more than sheer willpower. Reading this kind of stuff is like the recipe for creating super villains.

Lol each work station just needs a little monitor which randomly shows a post from this thread every few min.

#17752 32 days ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Those games that you saw that were covered up and made to look like super secret prototypes, were probably just RM's games from this picture.
[quoted image]

No, all those games were in the break area while we were there. We were able to play them during breaks between the tour and filming.

I have marked the provided image to help you guys map the place.

Red Square - the glass doors I mentioned earlier that were an exit - and not ideal for moving machine to and fro.
Green Square - Top of stairs and next to the small lift to raise machines up a story.
Blue Square - Is where the covered cabinets and the two RAZA games were setup. The proposed production area was the next room even further that direction.
The lab/machine shop is located behind that wall where all the pins are lined up.

DP break area (resized).png
#17753 32 days ago
Quoted from TheCapn:

No, all those games were in the break area while we were there. We were able to play them during breaks between the tour and filming.

Ah ha! So you DID in fact get to play multiple fully-working, production-quality commercial pinball machines of various titles during your tour of the deeproot facility despite your previous claims to the contrary! How the worm turns...

#17754 32 days ago

Incompetence ? Or had no real intent to manufacture until sales interest was gauged ? Preorder generated very little interest. All but done. Seems doubtful they will ever manufacture anything of consequence in that building. I thought maybe they would squeeze out a dozen or more games hand building them, but doubt even that happening now. Does not look promising at all.

Looking at the photos they would have a better chance running a day care facility out of there, or maybe a fitness club.

-1
#17755 32 days ago

What people are missing is that these are kits... they drop ship the parts to your door along with an assembly technician and JPop and RM, and they say "Pinball is easy", roll up there sleeves, and assemble it while you wait. It's an all day Starbucks catered affair with live music provided by the Texas Baroque Accordian Quartet, Pole dances by Madame Eve, and it doesn't end until after you play your first game of RAZA which will be impossible because they delivered the parts for Food Truck, and Barry Orsler was indisposed due to attending a pot luck dinner at the Senior Citizens Center.

#17756 32 days ago

If I didn't know better, I'd think this company is run by blowhard dipshit who has no fucking idea what he's doing!

10
#17757 32 days ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Looking at the photos they would have a better chance running a day care facility out of there

Yeah, day care for JPOP. Just keep him confined, supplied with purple crayons and noodling away so he can do no further damage to this hobby.

He's only 5 years away from early SS and being the kind of guy who loads up on ketchup packets and saltines at Denny's while ordering hot water.

#17758 32 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

I doubt deeproot planned to produce much of anything at the time of that last update, but I could totally see RM, reading this thread and being driven by an overwhelming desire to make everyone here eat their words, miraculously deliver games on little more than sheer willpower. Reading this kind of stuff is like the recipe for creating super villains.

The irony of the guys in the preorder thread needing to thank us for getting their games made!

#17759 32 days ago

I am wondering if they are waiting for all parts to come in before any assembly (seems logical if waiting on key components that other things need to interface with and they really think this thing is going down a line).. and thus in May RM is thinking ‘once all them parts in, we’ll just slap these beetchez together lickity split’ with no further issues or delays because what else could possibly go wrong. Should be easy, right?! Right?? Lol.

We’re watching the titanic sink in slow mo.

#17760 32 days ago

For real tho, there are only 2 ways forward:

1.). Commit to being a Stern...which would mean get parts for the next few games stocked, hire enough people to keep a factory churning...build tons of games.

You need an established brand, distributor network, and actual orders for that to work...soooo -

2.) Commit to being a Spooky. Commit to slowly building your games with a small crew.

The problem is, they've already wasted so much money on having too many designers/artists/full-time employees/leases to EVER turn a profit.

So, they'll probably have no choice but option 3: Call it quits. Whether that happens before they commit more years & more money to building the RAZAs or after, that's the story we're waiting to see play out.

#17761 32 days ago

Rare how about option 4?

Commit them to an insane asylum!

-1
#17762 32 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Yeah, day care for JPOP. Just keep him confined, supplied with purple crayons and noodling away so he can do no further damage to this hobby.
He's only 5 years away from early SS and being the kind of guy who loads up on ketchup packets and saltines at Denny's while ordering hot water.

Just the the Jerry daycare

28
#17763 31 days ago

Anyone that even remotely deals with supply chains right now knows there is no way a brand new company is going to get all the parts for even 50 machines by the end of this year, with the current situation of things.

You know what would probably help deeproot? If Robert hadn't run his mouth for the past few years, I'm guessing it would be easier to source these parts. It's a small industry.

16
#17764 31 days ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

You know what would probably help deeproot? If Robert hadn't run his mouth for the past few years, I'm guessing it would be easier to source these parts. It's a small industry.

Yup. Everyone in the industry knows about "deeproot 0.25" the first attempt to save John's masterpieces of shit. I'll tell ya'll the tale when they're dead and gone. Also doesn't help to build your company around a goomba who still owes lots of vendors money.

Don't forget deeproot funneling money through the corpse or Zidware to become their largest and only secured creditor. Boom, now AP and Cointaker will never get a dime back what they're owed.

This company can't die fast enough.

#17765 31 days ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Anyone that even remotely deals with supply chains right now knows there is no way a brand new company is going to get all the parts for even 50 machines by the end of this year, with the current situation of things.
You know what would probably help deeproot? If Robert hadn't run his mouth for the past few years, I'm guessing it would be easier to source these parts. It's a small industry.

Well at least they aren’t building bicycles

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a34587945/coronavirus-bike-shortage/

#17766 31 days ago

Pretty sure this is just one of the supply chain issues everyone is dealing with. It's only going to get worse.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-own-supply-chain-crisis-130012367.html

#17767 30 days ago

A couple weeks ago, Trek bikes went from telling people August 2022 delivery on ordered bikes to "we are no longer taking preorders". And even better, most of the dealers are requiring 100% payment up front to secure the order.

#17768 30 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

A couple weeks ago, Trek bikes went from telling people August 2022 delivery on ordered bikes to "we are no longer taking preorders". And even better, most of the dealers are requiring 100% payment up front to secure the order.

It's the same story in a lot of industries. New boats are completely out of stock for the foreseeable future. Appliances are starting to see 6-12 month waits. Lumber prices are shooting up.

It's a bad year to be making a new product with as many parts as a pinball machine has.

#17769 30 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Legit question regarding commercial leasing: Is standard practice to sign a multi-year lease with no renewal option (as the posted doc indicates deeproot has done)?

In Australia yes, but for sites like a Cafe, not a manufacturing plant. It is really odd to not have options for renewal at a site like this

#17770 30 days ago

RAZA looks great! And the word out of Texas is that Food Truck is a winner! My secret source has played it!

Boy, what a great time for pinball. I for one am so happy that innovative risk takers like Robert Mueller have started exciting new companies that are taking pinball to the next level! Game changing!

And god knows we need it. The 5 or 6 games that come out every year from those “other companies” are so backwards it’s laughable. Laughable!! Viva la Raza!

***’Scuse me, just went to the Bahamas for a second***

#17771 30 days ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

It's the same story in a lot of industries. New boats are completely out of stock for the foreseeable future. Appliances are starting to see 6-12 month waits. Lumber prices are shooting up.
It's a bad year to be making a new product with as many parts as a pinball machine has.

We were looking at a new fridge 6 months ago, they were all out of stock and for the foreseeable future. And lumber prices are out of control.
Luckily other than some price increases for raw material, we haven't seen any part shortages in my industry.

#17772 30 days ago

Yeah that bike shortage is a pain in my rear. Was planning on starting pedal bike training maybe this summer with my son. All the players ( woom, pello, clearly, frog, etc) either weren’t even taking orders or were pre-preordering with payment in full up front. (Pre-preordering means I pay now and they estimate that around June they will be able to give an estimate on when things are back in stock). All colors, all styles, 2 sizes that I checked. My daughter is about ready to upgrade size, but good luck on that.

Best unofficial guess I got was that if I pay now, I will have two bikes summer 2022.

#17773 30 days ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

It's the same story in a lot of industries. New boats are completely out of stock for the foreseeable future. Appliances are starting to see 6-12 month waits. Lumber prices are shooting up.
It's a bad year to be making a new product with as many parts as a pinball machine has.

In my area, the bulk rate of steel bar joists has gone up about 2.5x this past year and lumber is at a 13 year high. Massive shortages everywhere.

#17774 30 days ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

It's the same story in a lot of industries. New boats are completely out of stock for the foreseeable future. Appliances are starting to see 6-12 month waits. Lumber prices are shooting up.
It's a bad year to be making a new product with as many parts as a pinball machine has.

I think a lot of people are blurring the lines between “new demand that can’t be met” with “supply chain disruption”

Many of these stories are about distribution being depleted and production being down or unable to flex up. Do that widespread in an industry and you get stories like the bike story... or appliances. The production output slowing combined with a surge in demand leads to these depletions. When industry moved to low inventories and fast product refreshes... they made themselves vulnerable to this.

You don’t hear them saying they can’t make bikes - they are saying they can’t get lead times to where they were before. Demand is still exceeding their high output.

Shipping disruptions are something that is less industry specific because of the shared overlap.

But i think stories about home luxury items and bikes have little to do with scenarios like deeproot. There is contention in alot of suppliers due to new demand- but this isn’t as much “parts are unobtainable” as it is traditional expectations are often out the window where there has been non traditional new demand

#17775 30 days ago

Since there are going to be a lot more delays, maybe JPop can noodle on making a new promo video like yesteryear.

Now that’s entertainment

#17777 30 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

promo video like yesteryear

Love those old-school promos.

#17778 30 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Legit question regarding commercial leasing: Is standard practice to sign a multi-year lease with no renewal option (as the posted doc indicates deeproot has done)?

It’s foolish from the Tenants perspective. Especially if they have to make substantial tenant improvements. They could be forced to leave at the conclusion of the term. Typically however, tenants would have several 5year options to renew.

The only time Landlords are averse to giving renewal options is if they are planning to demo the building. If we assume the current state is the highest and best use of the land (no plans for condo tower or office tower) there is no reason for Landlord not to give options. The only other time would be if the owner wanted to move into the building themselves. Unlikely.

-1
#17779 30 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Since there are going to be a lot more delays, maybe JPop can noodle on making a new promo video like yesteryear.

Now that’s entertainment

Maybe he can make Star wars episode 1 play better with less jarjar since he has so much time on his hands...lol

-1
#17780 30 days ago

I've been thinking...

Innovating, really :

Maybe they are going to realize mass savings by not having a production line at all?

Instead. They will load a Technician inside every Pin Pod.
Ship them, together with all of the parts it takes to build your RAZA.
... and you simply have to mail the Technician back (in a prepaid envelope) when your fully assembled and tested RAZA arrives at your door.

We may joke about it. But, Pinball Innovation really is easy.

#17781 30 days ago
Quoted from guitarded:

I've been thinking...
Innovating, really :
Maybe they are going to realize mass savings by not having a production line at all?
Instead. They will load a Technician inside every Pin Pod.
Ship them, together with all of the parts it takes to build your RAZA.
... and you simply have to mail the Technician back (in a prepaid envelope) when your fully assembled and tested RAZA arrives at your door.
We may joke about it. But, Pinball Innovation really is easy.

They need to give jpop something to do.

-1
#17782 30 days ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Maybe they are going to realize mass savings by not having a production line at all?

Quoted from frolic:

They need to give jpop something to do.

I already "innovated" and combined these two ideas... sadly it got downvoted

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/356#post-6227365

#17783 30 days ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

It’s foolish from the Tenants perspective. Especially if they have to make substantial tenant improvements. They could be forced to leave at the conclusion of the term. Typically however, tenants would have several 5year options to renew.
The only time Landlords are averse to giving renewal options is if they are planning to demo the building. If we assume the current state is the highest and best use of the land (no plans for condo tower or office tower) there is no reason for Landlord not to give options. The only other time would be if the owner wanted to move into the building themselves. Unlikely.

That property overview doc I shared indicates a lower sq ft rate because tenant is responsible for a variety of regular expenses related to the property and perhaps other significant ones as well?

I asked the renewal question because I have zero experience with commerical real estate. I've only ever rented apartments and had leases with built-in rolling renewals.

Does having no renewal option suggest that before the term's end dr will negotiate a brand new lease or that the landlord expects/wants someone else in there come April 2023?

#17785 30 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

That property overview doc I shared indicates a lower sq ft rate because tenant is responsible for a variety of regular expenses related to the property and perhaps other significant ones as well?
I asked the renewal question because I have zero experience with commerical real estate. I've only ever rented apartments and had leases with built-in rolling renewals.
Does having no renewal option suggest that before the term's end dr will negotiate a brand new lease or that the landlord expects/wants someone else in there come April 2023?

Most CRE leases do include 3 or 5 renewal options. With that being said, they do not need to negotiate a brand new lease. Lease amendments are common and much easier to negotiate than an entirely new contract. They could sign an amendment that pushes out the life of the lease as long as they wish, with updated rents due. They could even include renewal options as part of the amendment. Most LLs want 12-months worth of lead time, so if the lease ends April '23, would likely need to have an amendment signed by April '22 or start looking for a new home.

#17786 30 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Since there are going to be a lot more delays, maybe JPop can noodle on making a new promo video like yesteryear.

Now that’s entertainment

This is why 90s pins are still the best pins ever made. They made them as their life depended on it. You could hear that in the CV promo

#17788 30 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

That property overview doc I shared indicates a lower sq ft rate because tenant is responsible for a variety of regular expenses related to the property and perhaps other significant ones as well?
I asked the renewal question because I have zero experience with commerical real estate. I've only ever rented apartments and had leases with built-in rolling renewals.
Does having no renewal option suggest that before the term's end dr will negotiate a brand new lease or that the landlord expects/wants someone else in there come April 2023?

In commercial leases, tenants are responsible for base rent and common area costs or sometimes also called operating costs. Things like property tax, snow removal (not here), garbage removal, servicing the hvac, lawn maintenance, parking lot maintenance, non structural roof repairs etc all are part of the operating costs. Basically all the costs involved in maintaining the building and lands.

As a poster already mentioned, If the tenant wants to stay, they will sign an amending agreement which basically sets out the new term and rent. Our leases are about 60 pages and the amending agreement is usually 3 or 4 pages.

It’s hard to gauge the Landlords intentions at this point. I will say it’s foolish by the tenant to not have renewal options in its lease. There is no cost and the option to renew is entirely up to the tenant.

Cheers,

C.

#17789 29 days ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Incompetence ? Or had no real intent to manufacture until sales interest was gauged ? Preorder generated very little interest. All but done. Seems doubtful they will ever manufacture anything of consequence in that building. I thought maybe they would squeeze out a dozen or more games hand building them, but doubt even that happening now. Does not look promising at all.
Looking at the photos they would have a better chance running a day care facility out of there, or maybe a fitness club.

Remember.. even after the patient was dead and sitting in the morgue, JPOP managed to get a dozen+ Magic Girls thrown together in the back of American Pinball. So I think they could still get stuff thrown together if they really want to... it's just not really the stepping stone to actually becoming a real pinball company.

10
#17790 29 days ago

Look at the huge "PINBAR" billboard they are putting on the side of the pinball hall of fame!

FB_IMG_1618677944385 (resized).jpg
#17791 29 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Remember.. even after the patient was dead and sitting in the morgue, JPOP managed to get a dozen+ Magic Girls thrown together in the back of American Pinball. So I think they could still get stuff thrown together if they really want to... it's just not really the stepping stone to actually becoming a real pinball company.

A mea culpa and a real timeline would go a long way towards becoming a real pinball company. Or better yet how about just putting out some actual machines. Hand built. Pinball brothers despite their struggles seem to finally be trickling things out. Show that the directional arrow is forwards. Even their true fans will appreciate it. When you leave a news vaccuum, your customers will fill it in for you and generally not in a good way

#17792 29 days ago
Quoted from pookycade:

When you leave a news vaccuum, your customers will fill it in for you and generally not in a good way.

Obvious example: announcements of delays from Deeproot with no real news keeps fueling this thread on Pinside.

#17793 29 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

Obvious example: no news from Deeproot keeps fueling this thread on Pinside.

Better to say nothing - which they should of stuck to - because every word is interpreted 6 different ways.

Look at Pinball Brothers or Dutch Pinball - smart move not to say anything. Slowly get machines out and people are good.
Also, take a lesson from Stern on this too. Not a word about a new release until it is ready.

Added: see thread activity pickup - right when DP started talking and sharing again - each blip there after corresponds to them releasing a message.

Screenshot 2021-04-17 170521 (resized).jpg
#17794 29 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Look at the huge "PINBAR" billboard they are putting on the side of the pinball hall of fame!
[quoted image]

Room for one more letter. What do they finish it with? If they're going for a temportary Deeproot art installation, maybe an F?

pinbar.jpg

10
#17795 29 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Room for one more letter. What do they finish it with? If they're going for a temportary Deeproot art installation, maybe an F?
[quoted image]

Enough room for the TM symbol

21
#17796 29 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Enough room for the TM symbol

Haha. You're right. Like a glove!

pinbar (resized).jpg
#17797 28 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Haha. You're right. Like a glove!
[quoted image]

I appreciate the attention to detail in moving the street address.

Thanks.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#17798 28 days ago

I thought that 4925 was the plastic number when you want to order a replacement.

#17799 28 days ago

I know Tim probably picked red because it's the most eye attracting, but red is like the WORST color for fading which is going to be an issue in a hot desert (ask any no fear owner) unless he's coating it with some sort of UV clear?

#17800 28 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Haha. You're right. Like a glove!
[quoted image]

Buy the place next door and call it "DLC"

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