(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#17601 2 years ago

Came across this hour-long interview with RM from 2019. Back then, Deeproot had THIRTEEN titles 50% or more completed. Imagine how many they must have now!

https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot

#17602 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Came across this hour-long interview with RM from 2019. Back then, Deeproot had THIRTEEN titles 50% or more completed. Imagine how many they must have now!
https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot

Hmmm.... episode 420. Coincidence?

#17603 2 years ago
Quoted from Lounge:

Hmmm.... episode 420. Coincidence?

Does seem awfully HIGH

#17604 2 years ago

Some Deeproot rent $ info?

Screen Shot 2021-04-11 at 9.33.59 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-04-11 at 9.33.59 PM (resized).png

60-month lease expiring March 31, 2023 (Renewal Options: None)

Security deposit = $212,714.53

April 2018-2019 = $553,631.52
April 2019-2020 = $553,631.52
April 2020-2021 = $553,631.52

Rent expenses through April 2021 = $1,873,609.09

April 2021-2022 = $571,584.88
April 2022-2023 = $587,033.12

Rent expenses, full lease term: $3,032,227.09
Less deposit (if returned): $2,819,512.56

Lease Type: NNN
*Tenant contracts for Electricity, Janitorial, HVAC, and Landscaping. Tenant is responsible for HVAC repair, replacement, and maintenance.

https://www.cbre.us/resources/fileassets/US-SMPL-55014/c777ceb1/478ed732-8c46-4909-b1da-f77689e03260.pdf

#17605 2 years ago

Without wanting to re-open the can of worms, I was looking through the GnR schematics the other day. All the LED insert boards are node boards, connected to the main board via RJ45 (ethernet) cables, and using I2C as the comms protocol. I2C is a serial protocol.

gstellenberg Just to understand the argument a bit better - you're not saying that a serial comms protocol like I2C being used in this way is a dodgy architecture right, since the LEDs on those node boards will still be driven in parallel using LED drivers? Your argument is against LEDs connected to each other in series and driven using something like WS2812 (ie LED strip lighting) ?

#17606 2 years ago
Quoted from stumblor:

Without wanting to re-open the can of worms, I was looking through the GnR schematics the other day. All the LED insert boards are node boards, connected to the main board via RJ45 (ethernet) cables, and using I2C as the comms protocol. I2C is a serial protocol.
gstellenberg Just to understand the argument a bit better - you're not saying that a serial comms protocol like I2C being used in this way is a dodgy architecture right, since the LEDs on those node boards will still be driven in parallel using LED drivers? Your argument is against LEDs connected to each other in series and driven using something like WS2812 (ie LED strip lighting) ?

The problem with WS2812 chain is you just shift out the data and "pray" every led reads it and passes it on without getting corrupt, there is no error checking that i am aware of, just shift it out and hope it works, so can be prone to issues if interference is about. I2c / other buses should have some sort of error checking so if a packet does not make it or fails it should try again which makes them a bit more reliable.

#17607 2 years ago
Quoted from russdx:

The problem with WS2812 chain is you just shift out the data and "pray" every led reads it and passes it on without getting corrupt, there is no error checking that i am aware of, just shift it out and hope it works, so can be prone to issues if interference is about. I2c / other buses should have some sort of error checking so if a packet does not make it or fails it should try again which makes them a bit more reliable.

GnR uses ultra fast I2C, which from what i understand is also fire and forget...

#17608 2 years ago
Quoted from seenev:

Here you go! [quoted image]

Robert had to put the LEDs* down because LEDs are for closers only.
ABC (resized).pngABC (resized).png

*pronounced as “beds”

#17609 2 years ago
Quoted from russdx:

The problem with WS2812 chain is you just shift out the data and "pray" every led reads it and passes it on without getting corrupt, there is no error checking that i am aware of, just shift it out and hope it works, so can be prone to issues if interference is about. I2c / other buses should have some sort of error checking so if a packet does not make it or fails it should try again which makes them a bit more reliable.

Yes 2812s are indeed susceptible in this way and I’ve personally seen data corruption with longish leads. I2c is a better solution, SPI for long leads to the controller and high data rates probably the best. The other disadvantage of 2812s and pretty much all led control systems is use of pwm which inherently means one has flickering to control brightness. Granted not flickering all that perceptible, but flickering nonetheless. Constant current controllers are a pricey solution but take care of a lot of this issue.

#17610 2 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Yes 2812s are indeed susceptible in this way and I’ve personally seen data corruption with longish leads. I2c is a better solution, SPI for long leads to the controller and high data rates probably the best. The other disadvantage of 2812s and pretty much all led control systems is use of pwm which inherently means one has flickering to control brightness. Granted not flickering all that perceptible, but flickering nonetheless. Constant current controllers are a pricey solution but take care of a lot of this issue.

Long as your pwm is fast enough should be no flicker (to the eye), id be very surprised to find even Gerry's LEDs are not pwm by the fpga even though wired directly (Gerry would have to confirm that)

I really like the idea of the led strings or even everything on the string imagine each coil having its own tiny little pcb on the string with just data and power. Its just how do you keep it all EMI clean. Maybe fiber connecting it all together?

#17611 2 years ago

.

#17612 2 years ago

I see what you did there.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#17613 2 years ago

Meh. We use APA102 which have clock and data lines, a start condition, start frame per pixel and an end condition bit pattern. It is not dependent on pulse widths like a WS2812 Neopixel.

Also wow. 3 million burn on rent alone. So yeah, maybe they didn't spend the whole 35m but now I'm thinking it's probably closer to 20 than 10.

And they could even get a single prototype to work. Pathetic. Go home boys, you're drunk.

#17614 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Came across this hour-long interview with RM from 2019. Back then, Deeproot had THIRTEEN titles 50% or more completed. Imagine how many they must have now!
https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot

They were all ‘50%’ complete because Jpop told RM that’s how complete they were. Which means, they were all foam core with with blinking lights... so more like 5% complete.

#17615 2 years ago
Quoted from stumblor:

you're not saying that a serial comms protocol like I2C being used in this way is a dodgy architecture right, since the LEDs on those node boards will still be driven in parallel using LED drivers? Your argument is against LEDs connected to each other in series and driven using something like WS2812 (ie LED strip lighting) ?

I2C and SPI are also single-ended digital buses not designed for noisy (EM) environments, but an LED implementation using one of them is more likely to avoid issues because you're likely using just a handful of slave devices that all receive the same data at the same time. They're still not the best choice if you're seeking noise immunity, but they're definitely better than long chains of serial LED devices. Yes, you can theoretically add error detection and correction on top of I2C/SPI, but few do, as it adds complexity to each device and reduces refresh bandwidth.

Quoted from pookycade:

The other disadvantage of 2812s and pretty much all led control systems is use of pwm which inherently means one has flickering to control brightness.

This really just depends on your refresh rate. Anything above 30fps is probably fine, 60fps for sure (just like 1080p HDTV). Our boards refresh parallel LEDs at 1000 fps and run serial buses as fast as the protocol allows (therefore limited only by the number of LEDs in the chain). Most often any flicker you see in some systems is from software-controlled color fades in systems that can't send new color data to the chains fast enough. Our PD-LEDs do fading in hardware to avoid that.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

#17616 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Also wow. 3 million burn on rent alone. So yeah, maybe they didn't spend the whole 35m but now I'm thinking it's probably closer to 20 than 10.

Don't forget the 2 years or so (?) rent paid on the now closed Utah studio and the staff.

#17617 2 years ago

Wow, their San Antonio office seems swanky by the flyer. On site gym and cafeteria (you can see Robert's pinballs in the photo?)

Untitled (resized).pngUntitled (resized).png

They can advertise the manufacturing wing as unused for the next tenant

The SLC office seems/seemed more normal and about $30/sqft based off some light googling.

#17618 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Wow, their San Antonio office seems swanky by the flyer. On site gym and cafeteria (you can see Robert's pinballs in the photo?)
[quoted image]
They can advertise the manufacturing wing as unused for the next tenant
The SLC office seems/seemed more normal and about $30/sqft based off some light googling.

I see a pin pod in the lab side, but that it. Minus the stuff in the break room.

#17619 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

The SLC office seems/seemed more normal and about $30/sqft based off some light googling.

How big was the space? The San Antonio office rate is < $14/sq ft

#17620 2 years ago

That lab is WAY too clean. Ain't nothing goin' on in there!

Pack it up boys.

#17621 2 years ago

Rob's got a nice collection. Cool to see a Space Mission in there sometimes the noobs don't give much thought to the old stuff!

#17622 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

That lab is WAY too clean. Ain't nothing goin' on in there!
Pack it up boys.

Perhaps jpop revolutionized the roomba, too

#17623 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Perhaps jpop revolutionized the roomba, too

Well, he does suck.

#17624 2 years ago

What's the gym for? I thought their exercise was giving people the run-around.

#17625 2 years ago

The next tenant has half a start on a Health club / Juice bar.

#17626 2 years ago

When I go looking for deep root's facilities, I just roll down my car window and follow the smell of skankery, testosterone, Starbucks, and deceit...

#17627 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Every family needs a pinball. Every pinball needs a family.

This quote has made me laugh since day 1 and was one of the first huge red flags I saw. At the time he was still talking "ferrari quality at hyundai prices" or whatever but it still just screamed to me that is was dumb words by a guy extremely out of touch with reality.

#17628 2 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

This quote has made me laugh since day 1 and was one of the first huge red flags I saw. At the time he was still talking "ferrari quality at hyundai prices" or whatever but it still just screamed to me that is was dumb words by a guy extremely out of touch with reality.

Sadly, it would appear the deeproot family has sent this beloved slogan to the trademark orphanage

Screenshot_20210412-070505 (resized).pngScreenshot_20210412-070505 (resized).png

https://trademarks.justia.com/875/31/every-family-needs-a-pinball-every-pinball-needs-a-87531117.html

#17629 2 years ago

Yes if there's one thing every family needs it's a $6000 toy that takes up a much space as a couch.

I'm sure people on food stamps who've been on UE since last spring are ready to buy in!

#17630 2 years ago

What a colossal waste of money that facility is. How many employees did DR top out at in Texas? They could have built 150 games in a building the size of their cafeteria. If they manage to clear 1k profit on each game, they only need to sell about 3000 units to break even on the rent, at least.

#17631 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Yes if there's one thing every family needs it's a $6000 toy that takes up a much space as a couch.
I'm sure people on food stamps who've been on UE since last spring are ready to buy in!

Maybe he meant an actual pinball, like the ball bearing, not the entire machine

#17632 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Sadly, it would appear the deeproot family has sent this beloved slogan to the trademark orphanage
[quoted image]
https://trademarks.justia.com/875/31/every-family-needs-a-pinball-every-pinball-needs-a-87531117.html

In that case I'm claiming this slogan as my own.

Like the musician who tried to claim "Prince" when Prince became Symbol guy.

#17633 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Sadly, it would appear the deeproot family has sent this beloved slogan to the trademark orphanage
[quoted image]
https://trademarks.justia.com/875/31/every-family-needs-a-pinball-every-pinball-needs-a-87531117.html

Trademarks are relatively inexpensive to obtain but what a waste of effort had they gone ahead with this. This is another example of them doing the easy, frivolous stuff and taking their eye off the ball.

#17634 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Sadly, it would appear the deeproot family has sent this beloved slogan to the trademark orphanage
[quoted image]
https://trademarks.justia.com/875/31/every-family-needs-a-pinball-every-pinball-needs-a-87531117.html

have they trademarked "pinball is easy" yet?

#17635 2 years ago

Now 353 pages on ONE thread about a company who can't produce a single game.

I think its official Deeproot is now Seinfeld. You know the show about nothing.

Jerry Seinfeld became a BILLIONAIRE because of the syndication rights... I wonder if Deeproot could do the same?

A pinball company about nothing, and now Billionaires. Sounds about right.

#17636 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

have they trademarked "pinball is easy" yet?

It would appear not.

They did however register this one (unironically, one presumes):

Screenshot_20210412-084039 (resized).pngScreenshot_20210412-084039 (resized).png

https://trademarks.justia.com/882/82/pinball-for-the-88282791.html

#17637 2 years ago
DeepRoot (resized).jpgDeepRoot (resized).jpg
#17638 2 years ago

The Homer:

The car for the common man. (tm)

#17639 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The Homer:
The car for the common man. (tm)

Deeproot:

The pinball for the common man. (tm)

#17640 2 years ago

Deeproot:

The pinball for the con man.

#17641 2 years ago

Deeproot: pinball con, man!

#17642 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Well, he does suck.

Well that wins the internet today!

#17643 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

It would appear not.
They did however register this one (unironically, one presumes):
[quoted image]
https://trademarks.justia.com/882/82/pinball-for-the-88282791.html

What’s really funny about this is - a trademark has to be “in use” to be issued.

As in, a company must have a product in the public domain that uses this trademark. I’m going to assume that it was abandoned based on a lack of a product using this TM in the public domain.

#17644 2 years ago

Holy shit!!

I just discovered my parents’ sick stove has a pinbar!

29FCA3B0-9D4D-4EC1-A2F1-923035374BDA.jpeg29FCA3B0-9D4D-4EC1-A2F1-923035374BDA.jpeg
#17645 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I just discovered my parents’ sick stove has a pinbar!

That's the exact PinBar™ DR is using on Food Truck!

#17646 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Holy shit!!
I just discovered my parents’ sick stove has a pinbar![quoted image]

Looks like they're boiling water without a license.

#17647 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Looks like they're boiling water without a license.

They are preheating the oven to bake their water, which is not the best way to boil it.

#17648 2 years ago
Quoted from Lounge:

What’s really funny about this is - a trademark has to be “in use” to be issued.
As in, a company must have a product in the public domain that uses this trademark. I’m going to assume that it was abandoned based on a lack of a product using this TM in the public domain.

You also have to file with some sort of proof (we use streaming links, our DPK, digital flyers, and websites showing bookings), so they might still have just chosen to let it lapse

24
#17649 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Holy shit!!
I just discovered my parents’ sick stove has a pinbar![quoted image]

My parents too but as soon as I got hungry they told me dinner was meant as an internal goal and external expectation, not a promise of eating.

#17650 2 years ago

If deeproot made your oven you’d die of food poisoning because everything is half baked. But man does it sure look good with the LEDs!

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