Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from pookycade:But does it ? Behind every failure is some degree of failure to execute. Oftentimes it doesn’t matter how much money one is has. In fact more money often leads one to be even more sloppy and do a worse job not better because there is seemingly no financial pressure to complete each step in a timely and competent manner
You mean boasting about a burn rate that means you’ll never see a return isn’t a good flex??
Who would have thought.... 
Hairstyles and cash burn rates from the 80s were a bad idea in the 80s for building a sustainable business...fast forward to today with the same business model and you end up with a DR. All hair and hot air that falls flat and frizzy at the first sign of a rainy day. No amount of backcombing is going to raise these quiffs...
But what a party eh 
Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:But what a party eh
Seems to me thats exactly what we said about Dutch Pinball and TBL at Pin Expo that year...
Quoted from pookycade:But does it ? Behind every failure is some degree of failure to execute. Oftentimes it doesn’t matter how much money one is has. In fact more money often leads one to be even more sloppy and do a worse job not better because there is seemingly no financial pressure to complete each step in a timely and competent manner
I think King Fail #1 Andrew Heighway tells us otherwise. He had no money but what he did have he spent it stupidly buying machines to make their own hex posts and crap like that. Then tried to exit and blame it on other people (who were as equally to blame for the fail as he was but are about to rip off a new generation of stupid people). I fully expect the same thing with Robert.
How are stern, jjp, and spooky still churning out machines if there is such a massive part shortage?
Quoted from captainadam_21:How are stern, jjp, and spooky still churning out machines if there is such a massive part shortage?
It's simple actually. If it took 8 weeks lead time to order and get parts you now allow 12 weeks lead time for the same order.
The same thing is happening to me in the new home construction industry. I just received a hardwood floor from Sheoga out of Ohio which is right next door to Canada and our biggest trading partner. It used to take me 6 weeks to get hardwood flooring out of the US. This Sheoga floor took a full 90 days from the time I ordered it to the time it was delivered this past Thursday. My lead time for that particular item has doubled and I have been forced to adjust.
Good owners and managers will make the adjustment, the bad ones will cry and blame everyone else for the problems we are all facing from the Covid fall out.
QSS
Quoted from captainadam_21:How are stern, jjp, and spooky still churning out machines if there is such a massive part shortage?
Well for one thing they actually intend to BUILD the machines...
Liars always give out way too much detail. An honest company would just say "we are dealing with parts issues please be patient"
Quoted from captainadam_21:How are stern, jjp, and spooky still churning out machines if there is such a massive part shortage?
They know how to factory.
This is the story of Jack and John. About 10 years ago, each announced the creation of a new game. Jack created and delivered a masterpiece, and one of the most respected and appreciated pinball machines of all time. And then another. And another, and another and another.
John created a few boxes of blinky lights with ramps to nowhere. And hasn’t delivered shit to speak of. But here we still are.
Quoted from gweempose:John Popadiuk just announced today on RGP that he is available for hire if anyone wants to commission a custom machine ...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/browse_thread/thread/73d5bc51cac71ce8#
What a year in pinball this is turning out to be!
Quoted from iceman44:So I've decided to start another thread since I've been "ejected" from another Jpop thread on two of his pins I own because of the total DB's that continue to ruin everything…………
Eject this……..
I'm so excited about RAZA, it looks awesome so far and am thrilled to have Jpop leading the charges here. So I can't wait to see more from Jpop on RAZA and AIW, I think there is still availability left on AIW!
Quoted from gweempose:I just put down a $250 deposit on one. Yes, it might be a little impulsive to pre-order something this expensive without even seeing a single photo, but I really feel compelled to support this new company. I have long hoped that someone would step forward and offer some real competition to Stern. Hopefully, this will be the beginning of a great new line of pins, and I will be proud to say that I was one of the first to hop on board.
According to an email that Jack sent me today, the game will cost around $7,200. The people who pre-order it will save $700, bringing the cost down to $6,500. For those who are on the fence, it is my understanding that the deposit is fully refundable if you change your mind. I think Jack is simply trying to gauge how much demand there will be for this first machine. The email also stated that a wealth of information about the game will be made public within the next 45 days. I'm assuming at that point, the people who still want one will have to plunk down a bunch of extra cash.
This is a very exciting time for all of us. Let's keep our fingers crossed that this new endeavor is a success.
http://pinballsales.com/asp/default.asp
Until you see a photo captioned “here are the 160 play fields” or “here are the 160 ramps” or any picture showing any kind of parts accumulation whatsoever, be very worried.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:I think King Fail #1 Andrew Heighway tells us otherwise. (...) I fully expect the same thing with Robert.
Make no mistake, I am not a fan of Andrew.
Yet, with far less ressources than Deeproot, his company managed to manufacture some games - three different ones if you count the Bacardi machine. He was able to recruit several very competent people. Full Throttle was decent, and Alien was better than that (I can't comment on the Bacardi game- never saw it / played it).
That's way ahead of Deeproot's current list of achievements. With the same ressources as Robert, Heighway pinball would have released Queen, bought the Predator license (*) and a few other games. Alien would still be in production.
So I won't even give Andrew credit for being King of anything, Fail included.
(*) I met him twice, and he told me once he inquired about that license. At that time, I thought it would have been a bad idea (too many bad vibes after the Skit-b fiasco). I don't think that anymore: could a cool / reasonably inexpensive license and it should not be too difficult to design a better layout.
Quoted from pookycade:Until you see a photo captioned “here are the 160 play fields” or “here are the 160 ramps” or any picture showing any kind of parts accumulation whatsoever, be very worried.
And those are the “low hanging fruit” most of the other startups trot out to show they’re doing something.
Quoted from frolic:And those are the “low hanging fruit” most of the other startups trot out to show they’re doing something.
But... trade secrets and stuff... lulz
Quoted from flynnibus:But... trade secrets and stuff... lulz
It’s amusing because Stern is so proud of what they can do they (like most makers). They have multiple filmed tours explaining pretty much all the major aspects of their line process. Deeproot should really watch them...
The factory area that just deals with parts inventory alone should be enough to make people realize how woefully unprepared deep root is
Quoted from MapleSyrup:Well... The 5 Days of Deeproot were pretty cool!
Shhhhh.... you’re not allowed to talk about it.
Quoted from MapleSyrup:Well... The 5 Days of Deeproot were pretty cool!
Ha, some dude on Reddit had a conspiracy theory that RM threatened legal action on Robin because of this thread so Robin took the website down to scrub all things bad written about Deeproot. The guy was dead serious too.
Quoted from MapleSyrup:The 5 Days of Deeproot were pretty cool!
Too bad the 5 days happened while the Pinside server was just down . . . and we all missed it.
Fair number of embarrassing behind the scenes details about Deeproot I hadn't heard elsewhere toward the end of this podcast (begins at about 90 minutes in)
https://flippinandmashing.podbean.com/e/ep-60-hardy-and-the-boys/
Quoted from BillySastard:Ha, some dude on Reddit had a conspiracy theory that RM threatened legal action on Robin because of this thread so Robin took the website down to scrub all things bad written about Deeproot. The guy was dead serious too.
I seriously thought RM orchestrated a ddos attack lol.
Quoted from Roostking:I seriously thought RM orchestrated a ddos attack lol.
Nah. He set fire to the generator at the WebNX server farm in Ogden, Utah.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Fair number of embarrassing behind the scenes details about Deeproot I hadn't heard elsewhere toward the end of this podcast (begins at about 90 minutes in)
https://flippinandmashing.podbean.com/e/ep-60-hardy-and-the-boys/
Wow that IS embarrassing. I guess if you’ve put a deposit down then it’s kinda all in at this point. But you can’t help but listen to that podcast and think DR seems to only know how to build a prototype. One guy doing soldering and no color coded wires under the play field ??? Ugh ♂️
It’s kinda funny about the one guy who just solders all day (there must be another that just hand crimps connectors all day). But if you look at the video of Robert showing off the unnecessarily complex playfield servicing system, you can see there are multiple wire colors. You can also see in other photos how they sprung for full color printing on the underside of the cabinet illustrating all the playfield device names/locations.
Hopefully that guy has been busy soldering games together ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quoted from pookycade:Wow that IS embarrassing. I guess if you’ve put a deposit down then it’s kinda all in at this point. But you can’t help but listen to that podcast and think DR seems to only know how to build a prototype. One guy doing soldering and no color coded wires under the play field ??? Ugh ♂️
Dear pre-order buyers.. BAIL while you have a chance. Even if you get your game, you better hope it never breaks. The odds of getting support does not sound good.
Wow that podcast was very telling.
How do you not have a stable working game after 3 years? (or really 8 for Johnny boy) That's pathetic. Homebrewers do better in their garage, on weekends, with boxes of scrap.
Considering he bought into the BS "JPOP MAGIC" Robert probably thought all designers were magical. Forgetting, as many do, that it was the engineers who were the real heroes of Pinball.
Guessing he hired engineers but not from this field (it's Texas after all) Probably a lot of clash and confusion. See also getting your web developer to write code. "Code is computers, web is computers, this makes sense right?"
And finally - guess what other prototype had wires all the same color? PREDATURD.
I remember J Pop years ago complaining about homebrews all using the same coloured wires and how he would never be so embarrassed to do such a thing.
Quoted from frolic:I remember J Pop years ago complaining about homebrews all using the same coloured wires and how he would never be so embarrassed to do such a thing.
A truly innovative pinball wouldn't have very many wires under the PF at all.
But again, deeproot put their "innovation" everywhere BUT the playfield itself.
So much color, so much wow
1841ED64-F5C0-4A16-AFAC-2740EAA322A2 (resized).png
It looks like they used a few colors to keep switches, power lines, ground lines, etc separate.
I had some issues with wiring my home brew, using colored wires helped a bit. Black for ground, and then white/red/blue/yellow/green (with or without a black sharpie trace) and try to avoid using the same color more than once on a connector.
1D76239A-31B5-454B-A38A-9BB0B8A03F86 (resized).jpeg
Just a couple weekends and some cases of beer. It’s truly laughable how much has been spent on making these games.
Quoted from benheck:How do you not have a stable working game after 3 years? (or really 8 for Johnny boy)
Don't play fast and loose with the facts, Ben.* RAZA was announced in 2011, not 2013.
*Note: This is not legal advice.
I'm surprised that they are able to use multicolored cable. UL has a specific color scheme for wires that way you can look at a wire and know how to interact with it. I guess they are just getting the PCBs UL listed and not the whole pinball machine.
Quoted from denoument:I'm surprised that they are able to use multicolored cable. UL has a specific color scheme for wires that way you can look at a wire and know how to interact with it. I guess they are just getting the PCBs UL listed and not the whole pinball machine.
Would you perchance be interested in consulting work? I have the inside scoop on a well-capitalized upstart pinball company that is struggling to secure UL certification. My dms are open.
Quoted from benheck:Wow that podcast was very telling.
How do you not have a stable working game after 3 years? (or really 8 for Johnny boy) That's pathetic. Homebrewers do better in their garage, on weekends, with boxes of scrap.
Considering he bought into the BS "JPOP MAGIC" Robert probably thought all designers were magical. Forgetting, as many do, that it was the engineers who were the real heroes of Pinball.
Guessing he hired engineers but not from this field (it's Texas after all) Probably a lot of clash and confusion. See also getting your web developer to write code. "Code is computers, web is computers, this makes sense right?"
And finally - guess what other prototype had wires all the same color? PREDATURD.
Jpop working on “Fire and Brimstone”. That has to be on purpose, right?
Quoted from TreyBo69:So much color, so much wow
[quoted image]
It looks like they used a few colors to keep switches, power lines, ground lines, etc separate.
I had some issues with wiring my home brew, using colored wires helped a bit. Black for ground, and then white/red/blue/yellow/green (with or without a black sharpie trace) and try to avoid using the same color more than once on a connector.
[quoted image]
Just a couple weekends and some cases of beer. It’s truly laughable how much has been spent on making these games.
Here's a better screengrab. I'm seeing yellow, red, and MAYBE black. If I had to guess, each color is a voltage (red is probably lamps, yellow is coils). Looks like he has labels on the wires, but of course that does nothing when you're trying to trace something.
yellow and red wires (resized).pngQuoted from toyotaboy:Here's a better screengrab. I'm seeing yellow, red, and MAYBE black. If I had to guess, each color is a voltage (red is probably lamps, yellow is coils). Looks like he has labels on the wires, but of course that does nothing when you're trying to trace something.[quoted image]
Looks like they went down the daisy chain led route, Iv heard bad things about this regarding interference. Or if done correctly can be reliable?
Quoted from russdx:Looks like they went down the daisy chain led route, Iv heard bad things about this regarding interference. Or if done correctly can be reliable?
It can be fine if done correctly, but you know they haven’t tested it enough.
My hand gets tired just looking at how many connectors are on there. So many potential failure points. Every LED board has two connectors
I was only semi joking about a guy who does crimps all day next to the guy who solders all day.
Quoted from TreyBo69:It can be fine if done correctly, but you know they haven’t tested it enough.
Certainly reduces the wiring, be cool if everything thing could be daisy chained like there was just a power loom and 1 data loom and that was it!!! All lamps / switches / coils was on this daisy chain. No idea about speed or interference but if you could figure those out would be cool
Quoted from russdx:Certainly reduces the wiring, be cool if everything thing could be daisy chained like there was just a power loom and 1 data loom and that was it!!! All lamps / switches / coils was on this daisy chain. No idea about speed or interference but if you could figure those out would be cool
Yesh and one daisy chain breaks and half the game goes dark. Or a solenoid power line gets too close to a data line and all the lights go nuts from corrupted data
Just read the history of WOZ lightboards.
WOZ was like the 3 Mile Island of serial RGB. A good idea tainted by bad execution.
Whoever did WOZ didn't RTFM. Their RGB modules had built in voltage regulators, which takes a higher voltage and knocks it down to 5v for operation.
Linear buck regulators have what's called "drop out voltage" which is the minimum input voltage above the output voltage before the regulator stops working. Rule of thumb is about 2v. (switching regulators can go much lower, thus more efficient)
WOZ supplied these boards with the same voltage they outputted (5v) which is why they didn't quite work. It's actually shocking they worked at all. And thus the fix was to supply them with a voltage above the drop out of 5V, hence the "7v fix"
Serial lighting works fine, just like nuclear power. As long as you do it right. We are using it on new system and haven't had any problems. We even tested it by wrapping strips around power tools, coils and extension cords.
The bottom of the play field seems to be well labeled for finding, for example, a switch, switch node PCB, connector, and pin
5F340269-4D0E-4D48-A9D8-75ABCA599FC9 (resized).jpeg
Robert is a novice collector who hates repairs. A lot of thought was put into repairability. Hence the complex service position, the connectors, the color printed instructions on the play field, etc. More wire colors would be an improvement though.
Printing under PF is a great idea!
Also appears they are using standard modules for every insert light. That's what we are doing now too. You throw some extra into the goodie bag so if one goes out the user can swap, instead of having to send out an entire custom PCB cluster.
Told Spooky clusters would be cheaper but they specifically said "we will spend more on labor to make customer servicing easier" and we're like OK!
Quoted from benheck:Printing under PF is a great idea!
Also appears they are using standard modules for every insert light. That's what we are doing now too. You throw some extra into the goodie bag so if one goes out the user can swap, instead of having to send out an entire custom PCB cluster.
Told Spooky clusters would be cheaper but they specifically said "we will spend more on labor to make customer servicing easier" and we're like OK!
Also less parts to manage stock of
Quoted from TreyBo69:Also less parts to manage stock of
Yeah that was another concern. Having to keep stock of clusters even after a game is done, instead of tens of thousands of single modules.
Not using clusters also balloons the connector cost (they cost more than the LEDs!) but again, done for the sake of easier servicing.
We are using JSTs (Japanese solderless terminals) with pinch lock connects so they should hold just fine. It's much better than what's being used in R&m at the moment.
Quoted from benheck:Printing under PF is a great idea!
I know some games have this, but my Blackwater 100 has the underside printed for some things (ground trace), but also what color wires go to which lamps sockets and switches. I though that was pretty cool.
20210411_121627 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Goonie:I know some games have this, but my Blackwater 100 has the underside printed for some things (ground trace), but also what color wire go to which lamps sockets and switches. I though that was pretty cool.[quoted image]
Some Gottlieb System 3 games had the whole layout under the play field. Those things play like shit but work forever. Individual fuses for all solenoids! Luxury
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