(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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357 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 33,444 posts in this topic. You are on page 350 of 669.
#17453 2 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

just remember that the failure here is Robert; and he has out failed every other pinball fail added up together.
The start, the middle and ultimately the mega end that is coming only one person to blame -> Robert.

"Fame or Infamy what does it matter; I shan't be forgotten“

13
#17454 2 years ago

Magic Girl... did we learn anything?
TBL... did we learn anything?
Aliens... did we learn anything?
Predator... did we learn anything?
And now RAZA...
Just when will we really learn our lesson?

If there is one lesson that comes out of this, most likely it will be the reinforcement of the notion that pinball addicts are worse than heroine junkies, and they will throw any kind of money at someone to get their next "just got to have it" fix.

11
#17455 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Magic Girl... did we learn anything?
TBL... did we learn anything?
Aliens... did we learn anything?
Predator... did we learn anything?
And now RAZA...
Just when will we really learn our lesson?
If there is one lesson that comes out of this, most likely it will be the reinforcement of the notion that pinball addicts are worse than heroine junkies, and they will throw any kind of money at someone to get their next "just got to have it" fix.

The major difference here was DR had an incredible amount of cash behind it, it takes a special type of failure to burn that much money and still fail!!

20
#17456 2 years ago

I think Robert is full of shit.

It's not even a good scam. Where is the confidence (con) part? Don't they have anything to show us? An assembly line, a pile of parts, ANYTHING.

John at least slapped together 3 fake Magic Girls and put them in a row. SkitB showed a pile of skulls. Jack always shared factory pics. Dutch show their new work area and parts on hand. Andrew shared photos.

Are there parts shortages? Sure. 30 seconds ago a box arrived I should have gotten two weeks ago. Whatever. But they should have SOMETHING.

I think it's a lie, the funds have been cut off and they aren't doing jack shit either to save money or because they have none.

And if the company IS a scam, to hide money for rich folks, tax shelter, etc then the best recourse is to shut it all down and never show income.

#17457 2 years ago

....don't make me post boob photos!

#17458 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

And if the company IS a scam, to hide money for rich folks, tax shelter, etc then the best recourse is to shut it all down and never show income.

zzb8786dd762e6a7b5b352a2367490357b (resized).jpgzzb8786dd762e6a7b5b352a2367490357b (resized).jpg

#17459 2 years ago

Is this going to harm Steve bowdens reputation . I've never met him and I don't know him but from everything I've heard , like everyone else says he seems like a great guy .
If the company collapses and people are owed money and Steve is still working for them , it could look really bad .
Is everyone overreacting or is deep root , rooted , if they pump out games everything will be forgotten , I suppose time will tell .

#17460 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

[quoted image]

I’m wearing a cardboard belt!!!

#17461 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

....don't make me post boob photos!

Here you go. beelzeboob

LTG : )

randy (resized).jpgrandy (resized).jpg
#17462 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Is this going to harm Steve bowdens reputation . I've never met him and I don't know him

Nope

And if you knew him you’d see why. The guy is a lovable cupcake

#17463 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Nope
And if you knew him you’d see why. The guy is a lovable cupcake

Hopefully it doesn't get to that point , like I said he seems like a really nice guy .

#17464 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Is this going to harm Steve bowdens reputation . I've never met him and I don't know him but from everything I've heard , like everyone else says he seems like a great guy .
If the company collapses and people are owed money and Steve is still working for them , it could look really bad .
Is everyone overreacting or is deep root , rooted , if they pump out games everything will be forgotten , I suppose time will tell .

Unless hes on the board of directors or makes any high up decisions he wont be held responsible for any thing, hes just paid to do a job like 99% of every one else working there, the company failing is in no way his fault.

#17465 2 years ago
Quoted from seenev:

I'm sure they did. The company that I work for got PPP. The CEO/owner of the company literally complained about not getting any help from the government at a company meeting, and then the PPP data dump showed they had gotten millions before the meeting. So much dishonesty attached to PPP.
But yeah... Deeproot got PPP:
Recipient
DEEPROOT TECH, LLC
Location
San Antonio, TX
Business Type
Limited Liability Company(LLC)
Loan Amount
$625,652
Date Approved
May 8, 2020
Recipient
DEEPROOT STUDIOS, LLC
Location
San Antonio, TX
Business Type
Limited Liability Company(LLC)
Loan Amount
$535,272
Date Approved
May 13, 2020

Sweet zombie Jesus. Does that mean the payroll & utilities (whatever PPP covers) are around $3.2MM/year? Dude.

#17466 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Nope
And if you knew him you’d see why. The guy is a lovable cupcake

The last thing old want to see is Steves reputation tainted but at what point do you jump ship .

#17467 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Is this going to harm Steve bowdens reputation

absolutely not, Steve is absolutely epic.

#17468 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Magic Girl... did we learn anything?
TBL... did we learn anything?
Aliens... did we learn anything?
Predator... did we learn anything?
And now RAZA...
Just when will we really learn our lesson?
If there is one lesson that comes out of this, most likely it will be the reinforcement of the notion that pinball addicts are worse than heroine junkies, and they will throw any kind of money at someone to get their next "just got to have it" fix.

"And now RAZA..." I would replace RAZA with Deeproot for clarity, because RAZA was already previously a failure along with Magic Girl (and AIW etc.) as part of Zidware. Or maybe RAZA failure #1 and RAZA failure #2.

If Deeproot is really offering buyers a chance to get a refund, why would anybody stay in at this point? All I can think of:

1) They are willing to take a gamble in the hopes of getting a rare game that they can flip for a big profit

2) They like the theme so much they are willing to take a chance (or have their head in the sand and honestly believe the BS that they are being fed by RM...one buyer posted that he appreciated their "transparency.")

3) I got ahead of myself here. There is no #3.

#17469 2 years ago

This game is getting about as tainted and ugly as Magic Girl and most collectors just got rid of them due to the incredible Stench!

#17470 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

The last thing old want to see is Steves reputation tainted but at what point do you jump ship .

I’ve met Steve at several events. He parked at my place one year and we carpooled for TPF.
His reputation isn’t tied to DR. He’s an employee doing his best.
IMO he should leave if he feels the company is no longer viable. But employees often have little insight on that. He may not even work at the production facility (if one exists).

18
#17471 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Is this going to harm Steve bowdens reputation . I've never met him and I don't know him but from everything I've heard , like everyone else says he seems like a great guy .

Steve Bowden is a fantastic guy. This shouldn’t harm his reputation... he was hired as rules designer, not to build the production line. It’s safe to say that Deeproot’s troubles aren’t because of deficiencies in RAZA’s ruleset.

I do feel terribly for Steve, though. He uprooted his life to follow the dream of creating real pinball machines. Which of you wouldn’t love to have a well paying job making pinball? But this can’t be the way he imagined it going down.

20
#17472 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

"And now RAZA..." I would replace RAZA with Deeproot for clarity, because RAZA was already previously a failure along with Magic Girl (and AIW etc.) as part of Zidware. Or maybe RAZA failure #1 and RAZA failure #2.
If Deeproot is really offering buyers a chance to get a refund, why would anybody stay in at this point? All I can think of:
1) They are willing to take a gamble in the hopes of getting a rare game that they can flip for a big profit
2) They like the theme so much they are willing to take a chance (or have their head in the sand and honestly believe the BS that they are being fed by RM...one buyer posted that he appreciated their "transparency.")
3) I got ahead of myself here. There is no #3.

some people are just in too deep.

I mean, guys like Ice, getting ripped off on pinball scams is practically their trademark, their identity..."I have so much money I actually ENJOY having it stolen by pinball scammers, lol lol bwahahaha..."

You know the old saying..."if you have to ask when you are getting your game or what ASOA is doing with your $20,000 in imaginary Alien funds, you can't afford it."

#17473 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

"I have so much money I actually ENJOY having it stolen by pinball scammers, lol lol bwahahaha..."

You forgot the cigar chomping emoji.

#17474 2 years ago

For those who preordered a RAZA from Deeproot, what objective evidence do they have to believe that they are going to get a game?

I hope there is more evidence than "the parking lot is full of cars."

People talk about how much money Deeproot has and that this made them "legit" somehow, and all this cash would allow them to make pins first then sell them when ready to ship, with no pre-order money needed. Then they asked for pre-order money.

#17475 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

I’ve met Steve at several events. He parked at my place one year and we carpooled for TPF.
His reputation isn’t tied to DR. He’s an employee doing his best.
IMO he should leave if he feels the company is no longer viable. But employees often have little insight on that. He may not even work at the production facility (if one exists).

You're more than entitled to down vote me as much as you want . But I think you might be missing my point , I really like Steve Bowden and if deep root goes tits up I would hate to see him get dragged down with it . I'm just wondering at what point do you jump off the sinking ship . But he might think they will produce a lot of games and then no one will remember and all of us naysayers will look silly .

#17476 2 years ago
Quoted from Ferret:

I do feel terribly for Steve, though. He uprooted his life to follow the dream of creating real pinball machines. Which of you wouldn’t love to have a well paying job making pinball? But this can’t be the way he imagined it going down.

I'm sure it's a gut punch. It probably was like living a fantasy at first with Robert talking a big game and lots of money flying around and you have a new exciting career creating rules for pinball (is there ANYONE in the world that has that as a job description that includes a full-time paycheck?). And now it's turned into what it is currently.

#17477 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm sure it's a gut punch. It probably was like living a fantasy at first with Robert talking a big game and lots of money flying around and you have a new exciting career creating rules for pinball (is there ANYONE in the world that has that as a job description that includes a full-time paycheck?). And now it's turned into what it is currently.

Just hope for Steve that royalties/sales didn’t factor into his compensation.

#17478 2 years ago

The problem really is that Pinball is TOO easy.

No challenge.

They just probably got bored knocking it out of the park.

#17479 2 years ago

Our friend here, Dave Sanders survived Andrew Heighway very nicely and I've grown to respect him a great deal on many different levels.

If I were Stern or JJP or any established company, I would float an offer to Steve Bowden to come interview with me whenever the time is right.

#17480 2 years ago

If they were building machines at this point, even with parts missing, they would be posting pics of their games on the line to appease people's anxiety. If you were bragging about your awesome manufacturing abilities wouldn't you? That isn't happening.

This seems dead in the water if it was ever real at all. Beginning to agree with those that said this was all some scheme to sell 'innovation' to others, which didn't happen.

#17481 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

For those who preordered a RAZA from Deeproot, what objective evidence do they have to believe that they are going to get a game?
I hope there is more evidence than "the parking lot is full of cars."
People talk about how much money Deeproot has and that this made them "legit" somehow, and all this cash would allow them to make pins first then sell them when ready to ship, with no pre-order money needed. Then they asked for pre-order money.

The only reason I've seen is 'I believe!'. The same reason for all the other things wrong with the world.

#17482 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

If there is one lesson that comes out of this, most likely it will be the reinforcement of the notion that pinball addicts are worse than heroine junkies, and they will throw any kind of money at someone to get their next "just got to have it" fix.

If they have a “just gotta have it” fix, they should just buy games that exist or from companies that have track records. If you love Jpop THAT much, just get TOM, WCS, CV, and TOTAN & call it a day. If you need to spend more & feel special, track down a sample CV or something lol.

#17483 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

For those who preordered a RAZA from Deeproot, what objective evidence do they have to believe that they are going to get a game?

You can’t reason with a cult member. The spell only breaks when the leader goes down. I was at Chicago Expo ‘13 or ‘14 at Jpop’s seminar. All he had to show was some concept art for RAZA. I felt like I was in a room of brainwashed fools. They were “ooooh” and “ahhhhh”. My friend next to me said “OMG, look at that!” I said “What? It’s a concept painting”. He says with huge bug eyes and a happy smile “That’s going to be on the display!!!!!” I said “No, it’s not - that’s a single drawing. Who’s going to create assets & animate it all? Who’s going to program it? Who’s going to build it?” He was in a full trance...”but but but, look at that art!!!!” When the Zidware ship crashed, he snapped out of it.

Truly one is the most bizarre experiences I’ve had in this hobby. I can’t figure out why Jpop has the power to manipulate so many and pull them out of reality. Now he’s done that to RM, and RM’s done it to the new buyers.

#17484 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Magic Girl... did we learn anything?
TBL... did we learn anything?
Aliens... did we learn anything?
Predator... did we learn anything?
And now RAZA...
Just when will we really learn our lesson?
If there is one lesson that comes out of this, most likely it will be the reinforcement of the notion that pinball addicts are worse than heroine junkies, and they will throw any kind of money at someone to get their next "just got to have it" fix.

I’ve learned that when I want a new game I should buy from JJP or Stern or CGC or Spooky or American Pinball or Multimorphic. Period.

#17485 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Hopefully it doesn't get to that point , like I said he seems like a really nice guy .

Nice people get conned all the time. In fact, most cons target nice people. That’s kinda what we’ve all been saying. A guy like Steve kinda lent DeepShit some street cred. And that was probably the point. Steve’s innocent until proven guilty in my opinion. Robert’s guilty until he delivers a game.

Quoted from russdx:

...he's just paid to do a job like 99% of every one else working there...

Let’s hope so.

#17486 2 years ago

Looks like last Deeproot Fun with Bonus content was in mid February:
https://funwithbonus.com/category/deeproot/

No one has recorded a Raza score on the DR leaderboards (https://deeprootpinball.com/community/leaderboards/retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland/high-scores) except one game last Tuesday by this guy (https://deeprootpinball.com/community/user/45):

Screen Shot 2021-04-03 at 8.11.08 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-04-03 at 8.11.08 AM (resized).png

Maybe this guy's still pulling a paycheck.

#17487 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

when I want a new game I should buy from JJP or Stern or CGC or Spooky or American Pinball

or Multimorphic.

#17488 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I can’t figure out why Jpop has the power to manipulate so many and pull them out of reality. Now he’s done that to RM, and RM’s done it to the new buyers.

John is very good at mocking up the "impression" of a game. If you're an investor or rich dude who doesn't understand mechanics then yes, it looks like a pinball machine.

If anything I'd feel sorry for Steve. He's probably getting little useful info from John on how his bizarre game works (remember old school designers don't give a SHIT about code) and then he has to work with a programmer with no pinball experience.

#17489 2 years ago

100%! I’ve revised my previous post to correct for my omission. With the price of games skyrocketing, I’ve been thinking about Heist a lot lately. Dollar for dollar maybe even a better buy than Stern.

#17490 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

John is very good at mocking up the "impression" of a game. If you're an investor or rich dude who doesn't understand mechanics then yes, it looks like a pinball machine.
If anything I'd feel sorry for Steve. He's probably getting little useful info from John on how his bizarre game works (remember old school designers don't give a SHIT about code) and then he has to work with a programmer with no pinball experience.

Steve is a great guy and I'm sure he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with.

The problem is, once you are using software tweaks to address a shitty playfield design (IE: increasing scoring/incentive for ramp shots that fail halfway and fall into the pops unless the front leg levelers are jacked up to a laughable state) the war is already lost.

Games like Walking Dead or X-men that were terrible when they came out due to code at least had good playfield layouts already in place, and the software guys were able to catch up later on.

#17491 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

If they have a “just gotta have it” fix, they should just buy games that exist or from companies that have track records.

The problem is these junkies want their fix to be the most rare, exclusive, "nobody else got one" machines... like it's some kind of collector's competition. I like the 4 titles by JPoop, I would own any one of them in my collection, but hoping for any new title from him going forward is not what interests me. I think the TEAMS that brought those games to us were the top of the heap, and no amount of money is going to catch that lightning in a bottle again. We will get great machines in the future, but not like the string of machines from B/W in the 90's IMHO.

#17492 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

The problem is these junkies want their fix to be the most rare, exclusive, "nobody else got one" machines... like it's some kind of collector's competition. I like the 4 titles by JPoop, I would own any one of them in my collection, but hoping for any new title from him going forward is not what interests me. I think the TEAMS that brought those games to us were the top of the heap, and no amount of money is going to catch that lightning in a bottle again. We will get great machines in the future, but not like the string of machines from B/W in the 90's IMHO.

I once owned CSI. Some say only about 300 were ever made. The theme wasn’t terribly exciting - but it was well integrated! - and the artwork was Stern’s standard cut and paste of the time. It had one ramp, which really seemed to stifle enthusiasm for games “way back” then (13 years ago).

But it also had some really cool toys, drops, spinner, magnet, scoop, Vuk, habitrails, cool music and dots, a decent layout, good (a little shallow) rules and 3 flippers. And nobody cares, or really wants one. Rare? You bet.

You retheme that game with Zombie Yeti artwork and it would probably be worth what people are laying down for RAZA. And be a better game. But worth a lot of money? Doubt it.

#17493 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

100%! I’ve revised my previous post to correct for my omission. With the price of games skyrocketing, I’ve been thinking about Heist a lot lately. Dollar for dollar maybe even a better buy than Stern.

It is.

As far as newer games, I have a JJP POTC, Stern EHOH and Heist. Both of those games go for far more than a P3 now. Heist BY FAR is getting the most play, even though I really love the other two games, plus the rest of our gameroom. Tired of Heist for a minute? Switch over to ROCs! for a quick arcade boost (a la Asteroids). Not into space? Scoot & Shoot is a great game for getting good at drop catches and ball control. Those games are peanuts compared to buying a whole new Stern/JJP/AP.

Oh, and a huge update to Heist was teased by Multimorphic the other day.

#17494 2 years ago
Quoted from Ferret:

Steve Bowden is a fantastic guy. This shouldn’t harm his reputation... he was hired as rules designer, not to build the production line. It’s safe to say that Deeproot’s troubles aren’t because of deficiencies in RAZA’s ruleset.
I do feel terribly for Steve, though. He uprooted his life to follow the dream of creating real pinball machines. Which of you wouldn’t love to have a well paying job making pinball? But this can’t be the way he imagined it going down.

I don't think that this will impact Steve's reputation, as he has always been a positive impact on pinball & carried himself well. Steve has the reputation as one of the nicest guys in pinball, and I don't see that changing

#17495 2 years ago

Everyone in this thread better prepare themselves for cease & desist messages from Robert. When (ooops.......if) this fails it will all be your fault.

#17496 2 years ago

Frankly, it was worth a $10k flyer for the chance at getting a cool limited run game.
It’s a gamble, and only time will tell if it pays off for anyone.
If they get 100 machines out the door in 6 more months, those folks will still be happy with it.

Quoted from Bublehead:

The problem is these junkies want their fix to be the most rare, exclusive, "nobody else got one" machines... like it's some kind of collector's competition. I like the 4 titles by JPoop, I would own any one of them in my collection, but hoping for any new title from him going forward is not what interests me. I think the TEAMS that brought those games to us were the top of the heap, and no amount of money is going to catch that lightning in a bottle again. We will get great machines in the future, but not like the string of machines from B/W in the 90's IMHO.

#17497 2 years ago
Quoted from NashtyFunk:

If they get 100 machines out the door in 6 more months

Spoiler Alert: They won't.

#17498 2 years ago

I'd hate to have money down on an already late game where I'm constantly explaining to people, "I knew it was a gamble".
Been there done that.

#17499 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'd hate to have money down on an already late game where I'm constantly explaining to people, "I knew it was a gamble".
Been there done that.

Remember....

Time will tell

#17500 2 years ago
Quoted from russdx:

The major difference here was DR had an incredible amount of cash behind it, it takes a special type of failure to burn that much money and still fail!!

But does it ? Behind every failure is some degree of failure to execute. Oftentimes it doesn’t matter how much money one is has. In fact more money often leads one to be even more sloppy and do a worse job not better because there is seemingly no financial pressure to complete each step in a timely and competent manner

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