(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#17401 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

This letter shows again unrealistic goals that they inevitably will miss.
Today they say they sill have parts and cert issues...
And they think those problems will extend for weeks yet
They have given zero indication they have built out or tested their production processes...
And set another milestone of if game availability is not eminent... they will offer restitution.
Well i suggest you get your name on the list NOW because they are not going to ramp from nothing to games rolling daily in less than 4 weeks.
They should be building sub assemblies now... they should be training and running trial builds. But they boast of none of this but talk about being held up before the starting line. Even with everything in the building- they would not go from zero to volume in weeks.
Their UL and CE work is not going to result in changes to their playfields or mechanisms on them. They would be dealing with power, safety, and emissions... largely stuff constrained to the physical cabinet, power, and boards systems.
Yet... no indication of building what they could? Or showing progress to prove they can?

Even Homepin showed countless pictures of subassembly build. I couldn’t agree with you more. It is entirely obvious they have not a single competent manufacturing person there now. And if I was their PR person I would be wigging out right now. JPOP by himself at least tried to assemble 10 Magic Girls. Do that. Put 5 machines side by side and build them 1 by 1 and take pictures as they are being put together. Throw up photos. Put even 1 single game out the door with white glove delivery to customer #1. Post videos of them playing it. The sheer incompetence here is just unbelievable. It’s as if you took the movie Tommy Boy or Dumb and Dumber and it was now made real.

This can only be summarized as “unforced error”

#17402 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Then it really reaches Skit-B/Heighway levels of blaming people for causing a run on the bank as if that was the only reason why those endeavors failed.
If the refunds cause them to fold, they never had a chance to begin
It never made sense to ask for preorder money, especially in a FOMO driven limited sales window with minimal marketing
Someone could make a great post mortem on this company

The crazy part of this is, if DR somehow pulls through, that's awesome, great etc.

but if they don't, as many of us suspect, it won't be the last time. Some other company will come around and people will still give them money. All it takes is the right words and theme.

#17403 3 years ago

This thread is starting to make me understand the GameStop situation. I can not believe there are people still interested. I hope none of said interested people run businesses. Or a least ones that provide for your family!

#17404 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

This thread is starting to make me understand the GameStop situation. I can not believe there are people still interested. I hope none of said interested people run businesses. Or a least ones that provide for your family!

You gotta remember, some of these people have tons of money to burn so this is nothing to them. At this point it's like gambling. You might be out a little cash, or you might get something ultra rare. Toss up.

#17405 3 years ago

Regarding the latest update, it could be deeproot "building the narrative" (instead of games)

Imagine if you'd invested millions and the result was 100 orders. You'd be pissed. Maybe the plug has already been pulled and we are simply seeing the funeral arrangements?

Creating a "run on the bank" to use as an excuse not to build the games could very well be their strategy.

15
#17406 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Then it really reaches Skit-B/Heighway levels of blaming people for causing a run on the bank as if that was the only reason why those endeavors failed.

If the refunds cause them to fold, they never had a chance to begin

Personally I get more of a vonnie d vibe.

#17407 3 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Personally I get more of a vonnie d vibe.

I will always upvote any Vonnie D reference.

Not enough Pinsiders were around for their $100,000 plus pinball scam. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2065029795/pinball-gremlins-pinball-machine

(I did get a Vonnie D T-shirt although its orange and too ugly to wear.)

#17408 3 years ago

Deeproot should just scrape together whatever money they have to hire a lobbyist to bribe someone in congress to sneak a bailout into the next multitrillion dollar spending bill that they will pass without reading.

#17409 3 years ago
Quoted from seenev:

Deeproot should just scrape together whatever money they have to hire a lobbyist to bribe someone in congress to sneak a bailout into the next multitrillion dollar spending bill that they will pass without reading.

Well if these guys are anything like many here claim they are...I would assume they got millions in PPP(?) already....gee wonder where that money went.

#17410 3 years ago

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but anyone else notice there's no mention of Deeproot on J Pops' Linkedin page?

Still showing Zidware though.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnpopadiuk

#17411 3 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Well if these guys are anything like many here claim they are...I would assume they got millions in PPP(?) already....gee wonder where that money went.

I'm sure they did. The company that I work for got PPP. The CEO/owner of the company literally complained about not getting any help from the government at a company meeting, and then the PPP data dump showed they had gotten millions before the meeting. So much dishonesty attached to PPP.

But yeah... Deeproot got PPP:

Recipient

DEEPROOT TECH, LLC

Location
San Antonio, TX
Business Type
Limited Liability Company(LLC)
Loan Amount
$625,652
Date Approved
May 8, 2020

Recipient

DEEPROOT STUDIOS, LLC

Location
San Antonio, TX
Business Type
Limited Liability Company(LLC)
Loan Amount
$535,272
Date Approved
May 13, 2020

#17412 3 years ago

so seems that the new strategy is, scare off enough buyers that the total sales drops below 100. Then announce that with less than 100 sold, it is no longer practical to build them. Those with deposits will be given credit towards future DR game, which they will tell everyone that this is them being nice, since they were non-refundable.

#17413 3 years ago
Quoted from seenev:

Deeproot should just scrape together whatever money they have to hire a lobbyist to bribe someone in congress to sneak a bailout into the next multitrillion dollar spending bill that they will pass without reading.

"Too Purple To Fail"

I mean, the way John has been going, constantly failing up to more and more money, that seems the next logical step.

#17414 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Regarding the latest update, it could be deeproot "building the narrative" (instead of games)
Imagine if you'd invested millions and the result was 100 orders. You'd be pissed. Maybe the plug has already been pulled and we are simply seeing the funeral arrangements?
Creating a "run on the bank" to use as an excuse not to build the games could very well be their strategy.

Pretty much what I was thinking too. Exit strategy - building narrative as you say - agree with you for sure. They may not even have had the purported number of orders of around 100 +/- whatever - could be that number was inflated. When they made that short order window I figured they were gauging interest, not taking a count for materials and parts. This seems to be heading toward a conclusion I would guess...

#17415 3 years ago

If we assume say 25% of original buyers took the deal, then add in sales to some distributors the # of new money offers is probably indeed sub 100.

There's a lot of Kickstarters that happen simply as advertisements/gaging interest rather than actually needing the money.

If Robert sold the investors on "thousands of JPOP game sales!" (which he DID expect, at least early on) then yes, it's very possible the pathetic sales caused the plug to be pulled.

#17416 3 years ago

I think if they play their cards right, they can move the goal posts and claim "build LESS games than any manufacturer in history!". I mean Skit-b made like 3 predators right? I think they built 2 prototypes.. done and done

#17417 3 years ago

Best !

#17418 3 years ago

I just don't understand how this can be any fun for a rich guy at this point.

The whole reason people want to be rich is so they dont have to take any shit, and can dole out as much shit as they want without consequence.

And yet here we are. RM catching all sorts of shots from the types of lowly schlubs who he'd release the hounds upon if they popped up within 2 miles of his driveway gate.

I mean...even Cary Hardy has turned on him? Am I hearing that right?

I'm thinking you guys might be right. The search for an off ramp could be in full swing.

#17419 3 years ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Pretty much what I was thinking too. Exit strategy - building narrative as you say - agree with you for sure. They may not even have had the purported number of orders of around 100 +/- whatever - could be that number was inflated. When they made that short order window I figured they were gauging interest, not taking a count for materials and parts. This seems to be heading toward a conclusion I would guess...

Why do they even need a narrative? Does Robert have some future pin aspirations he hopes to shelter? I doubt it.

The only audience that matters is on the money side... the consumer side will just be wiped out in bankruptcy. I don't understand how spinning a story that makes consumers whole helps the money side, instead just makes it worse.

The money men would look to pull the cord where it makes the most sense from minimizing their losses.. screw the customers.

The 'not making the round up' games is the most confusing or bewilidering point. You mean the games you could actually sell at a higher cost? You mean the games you could source parts for MONTHS from now vs needing at the front of process? You mean the only real opportunity for cash flow? I makes zero sense unless they pull out the miracle "nope, game #2 is being built NOW..." - but that hail mary doesn't seem feasible either since they can't get to step 1 on game 1 production.

#17420 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I think if they play their cards right, they can move the goal posts and claim "build LESS games than any manufacturer in history!". I mean Skit-b made like 3 predators right? I think they built 2 prototypes.. done and done

If they did fold, the couple RAZA prototypes/samples built will eventually sell to some people with too much money...

Quoted from flynnibus:

Why do they even need a narrative? Does Robert have some future pin aspirations he hopes to shelter? I doubt it.
The only audience that matters is on the money side... the consumer side will just be wiped out in bankruptcy. I don't understand how spinning a story that makes consumers whole helps the money side, instead just makes it worse.
The money men would look to pull the cord where it makes the most sense from minimizing their losses.. screw the customers.
The 'not making the round up' games is the most confusing or bewilidering point. You mean the games you could actually sell at a higher cost? You mean the games you could source parts for MONTHS from now vs needing at the front of process? You mean the only real opportunity for cash flow? I makes zero sense unless they pull out the miracle "nope, game #2 is being built NOW..." - but that hail mary doesn't seem feasible either since they can't get to step 1 on game 1 production.

Mostly agree. It makes no sense to build up a complicated narrative, other than pride...

Even if the plan was move straight into game two (Goonies? The Who? Combative Racing License? Title TBD?!?!)...who the hell is trusting them after the past few months/years? They didn't even really try to sell RAZA that hard. What new suckers are there?

I honestly think they're trying to gently ease people into their newfound realization that it'll be months before a game is built. But they could be tapping out. Where is Macho when you need him?

#17421 3 years ago

The crazy thing is, even if people back out of their orders, there will be more people ready and willing to throw money at Deeproot.

Sounds crazy, but I would have NEVER thought 120 people would pre-order a vaporware machine from these clowns after the YEARS of drama and money lost on RAZA.

THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT!!

#17422 3 years ago

Man. That "owners" thread blows my mind. These guys really think they are getting a game, and are actually EXCITED about the updates...serisously.

Quoted from Makakka:

Good there will be no surplus machines. Only „true“ Jpop fans who couldn’t help but order asap (like me) plus anyone else supporting deeproot with a preorder should get RAZA firsthanded.

and this guy is PUMPED for the delays, now he has more time to work on games...

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I'm glad for the delays as it is giving me time to finish a project or two before delivery time arrives.

This time will be different!!

#17423 3 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Man. That "owners" thread blows my mind. These guys really think they are getting a game, and are actually EXCITED about the updates...serisously.

and this guy is PUMPED for the delays, now he has more time to work on games...

This time will be different!!

If you went in on RAZA as a speculative flip, the idea that even less will be made is music to the ear.

I don't doubt some of the buyers just want another fun pinball machine, but a lot would be lying if the thought didn't cross their mind when pulling out their credit cards. The limited production was always part of the sales pitch. And they generally liked the reassurance that a couple dozen non-preorder machines would be sold at a high markup to protect their "investment" and establish a price floor.

#17424 3 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Man. That "owners" thread blows my mind. These guys really think they are getting a game, and are actually EXCITED about the updates...serisously.

and this guy is PUMPED for the delays, now he has more time to work on games...

This time will be different!!

Why did you leave out the part where he says this thread is why DR might fail?

#17425 3 years ago

yes, i thinks that one prototype / sample game standing in the factory will cost more than Big Bang Bar after Deeproot told anybody the factory blew up because of some trainee pushing the wrong button.

I was really excited about Raza, but what this company does to every customer is just sad.

#17426 3 years ago

Why do they need a narrative ?

The narrative, exit strategy, or whatever it's taken as ... All to save pride, shift blame, save ego. Some, all or any of those. Probably just trying to give themselves a somewhat less bruising path out. Shift or transfer the reality of everything, rather than admit short comings and failure.

-6
#17427 3 years ago
Quoted from JagDaniels:

yes, i thinks that one prototype / sample game standing in the factory will cost more than Big Bang Bar after Deeproot told anybody the factory blew up because of some trainee pushing the wrong button.
I was really excited about Raza, but what this company does to every customer is just sad.

What is sad is bashing this company bring that much interests more than any new homebrews or any new projects.
Homebrews with 30 posts should be happy to see that. How many new posts to repeat this company is a fraud and how many posts to support new projects Fast, P-ROC ...
Some people in here enjoy more bashing than anything else.
Who could have the guts to launch anything after that?

I hope you guys could to enjoy even more if DR to go to bankrupcy. It would be amazing, isn’t it?
We go back to the middle age. Enjoy your hobby.

#17428 3 years ago
Quoted from Warzard:

What is sad is bashing this company bring that much interests more than any new homebrews or any new projects.
Homebrews with 30 posts should be happy to see that. How many new posts to repeat this company is a fraud and how many posts to support new projects Fast, P-ROC ...
Some people in here enjoy more bashing than anything else.
Who could have the guts to launch anything after that?
I hope you guys could to enjoy even more if DR to go to bankrupcy. It would be amazing, isn’t it?
We go back to the middle age. Enjoy your hobby.

No need to be one or the other. Don't forget that DR has the offer of an unprecedented opportunity on the table for the homebrew community too
https://deeprootpinball.com/community/homebrew

12
#17429 3 years ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Why do they need a narrative ?
The narrative, exit strategy, or whatever it's taken as ... All to save pride, shift blame, save ego.

Bingo.

Here's my prediction of their plan (bookmark this and see how close I get

6 weeks of silence. Hopefully some buyers lose faith. Doesn't have to be a lot, just a few is enough. May comes, announce more delays and how to get a refund.

So some buyers drop out, it should still be OK right? They're gonna do 160 no matter what, so somebody will buy them? Well no!

This is why they limit the build to "units sold" because even if there isn't a big run on the bank THEY CAN STILL SAY THERE WAS and then use the excuse of "its not worth it to only build 75 games" to throw in the towel and refund everyone.

FCC, CE etc is public record. Sleuth around and see if they're actually even doing it. That could be a lie as well.

#17430 3 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

No need to be one or the other. Don't forget that DR has the offer of an unprecedented opportunity on the table for the homebrew community too
https://deeprootpinball.com/community/homebrew

Screen Shot 2021-04-02 at 11.53.02 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-04-02 at 11.53.02 AM (resized).png

#17431 3 years ago
Quoted from Warzard:

What is sad is bashing this company bring that much interests more than any new homebrews or any new projects.
Homebrews with 30 posts should be happy to see that. How many new posts to repeat this company is a fraud and how many posts to support new projects Fast, P-ROC ...
Some people in here enjoy more bashing than anything else.
Who could have the guts to launch anything after that?
I hope you guys could to enjoy even more if DR to go to bankrupcy. It would be amazing, isn’t it?
We go back to the middle age. Enjoy your hobby.

Honestly if most of the homebrewers spent like $5,000 for a nice art package, they'd have people foaming at the mouth for some of their designs. Hell Predator looked like shit and they conned a couple hundred people.

All deeproot has ever been is a couple of elaborate homebrews with no serious thought towards mass production. Pinball companies aren't about new designs, they're about manufacturing. Pinball fans don't like this truth and that's how this fallacy continues. It's why the most valuable/celebrated designers in the industry are the ones who can do the most with the least.

Most of those homebrewers do as much if not more work by themselves, or in their small team, than deeproot has done in their entire corporate history.

Why do people think we like this company failing and taking money from people? (including the government)

We like pinball and the people who make it. Deeproot doesn't make shit. It's that simple. It's FRUSTRATING that they get all this capital that could have gone to people who are more productive with less.

#17432 3 years ago

“If they did fold, the couple RAZA prototypes/samples built will eventually sell to some people with too much money.”

Now that’s an interesting idea. Only 1 RAZA ever gets produced and gets auctioned to the highest bidder. Maybe even an NFT in there. I mean a single NYT blog post NFT sold for $500K didn’t it ? Or maybe they auction a 2fer here, Magic Girl AND RAZA specially signed by JPOP.

#17433 3 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

How about OneBornEverySecond.com?

Sometimes reborn. Multiple people have put money down on multiple sketchy projects.

#17434 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I just don't understand how this can be any fun for a rich guy at this point.
The whole reason people want to be rich is so they dont have to take any shit, and can dole out as much shit as they want without consequence.
And yet here we are. RM catching all sorts of shots from the types of lowly schlubs who he'd release the hounds upon if they popped up within 2 miles of his driveway gate.
I mean...even Cary Hardy has turned on him? Am I hearing that right?
I'm thinking you guys might be right. The search for an off ramp could be in full swing.

One thing is for sure, if you are named a variant of Robert Mueller(sp?) You are a turd.

#17435 3 years ago
Quoted from Warzard:

What is sad is bashing this company bring that much interests more than any new homebrews or any new projects.
Homebrews with 30 posts should be happy to see that. How many new posts to repeat this company is a fraud and how many posts to support new projects Fast, P-ROC ...
Some people in here enjoy more bashing than anything else.
Who could have the guts to launch anything after that?
I hope you guys could to enjoy even more if DR to go to bankrupcy. It would be amazing, isn’t it?
We go back to the middle age. Enjoy your hobby.

Seems you are referencing some bad ass improvement, to bring pins out of the middle ages. Can you point to a specific improvement that dr has released, that will change the game? I mean, 350+ pages is pretty game changing when it comes to vaporware. Hell even previous JPOP fraud threads didnt get this many replys.

I guess thats innovation.

#17436 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

One thing is for sure, if you are named a variant of Robert Mueller(sp?) You are a turd.

Well he DID finally find a Weapon of Mass Destruction - JPOP

#17437 3 years ago
Quoted from Warzard:

What is sad is bashing this company bring that much interests more than any new homebrews or any new projects.
Homebrews with 30 posts should be happy to see that. How many new posts to repeat this company is a fraud and how many posts to support new projects Fast, P-ROC ...
Some people in here enjoy more bashing than anything else.
Who could have the guts to launch anything after that?
I hope you guys could to enjoy even more if DR to go to bankrupcy. It would be amazing, isn’t it?
We go back to the middle age. Enjoy your hobby.

You know what ? Point taken. It is easier to comment on a trainwreck than it is to offer encouraging support to more fledgling efforts. I will make it a point to follow more home brew threads and offer anything of use.

#17438 3 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

“If they did fold, the couple RAZA prototypes/samples built will eventually sell to some people with too much money.”
Now that’s an interesting idea. Only 1 RAZA ever gets produced and gets auctioned to the highest bidder. Maybe even an NFT in there. I mean a single NYT blog post NFT sold for $500K didn’t it ? Or maybe they auction a 2fer here, Magic Girl AND RAZA specially signed by JPOP.

Rotflmao.

No.

#17439 3 years ago

Here's some more going out of business speculation. Why did deeproot get PPP last year but not the second round of PPP more recently?

Perhaps they didn't qualify because they were laying people off.

#17440 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Bingo.
Here's my prediction of their plan (bookmark this and see how close I get
6 weeks of silence. Hopefully some buyers lose faith. Doesn't have to be a lot, just a few is enough. May comes, announce more delays and how to get a refund.
So some buyers drop out, it should still be OK right? They're gonna do 160 no matter what, so somebody will buy them? Well no!
This is why they limit the build to "units sold" because even if there isn't a big run on the bank THEY CAN STILL SAY THERE WAS and then use the excuse of "its not worth it to only build 75 games" to throw in the towel and refund everyone.
FCC, CE etc is public record. Sleuth around and see if they're actually even doing it. That could be a lie as well.

Nailed it!

QSS

#17441 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure most of his unpaid staff have walked by now. Seeking legal advice probably, to get wages owed. I have no idea why Robert continues to chase this dream...a tremendously expensive dream.

This company can't possibly make any profit with what they're offering. If they have an Ace up their sleeve, now is the time to play it.

#17442 3 years ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

I'm pretty sure most of his unpaid staff have walked by now. Seeking legal advice probably, to get wages owed. I have no idea why Robert continues to chase this dream...a tremendously expensive dream.
This company can't possibly make any profit with what they're offering. If they have an Ace up their sleeve, now is the time to play it.

JPOPs KISS?!

#17443 3 years ago

.... "Our goal is to update in mid May and at that time (if games are not imminently ready to start shipping) to offer some financial relief for the delays in the form of a return of store credit, discount of the RAZA purchase, or allow customers to rescind RAZA purchases for a refund with nominal interest."

I wonder what that means for us red headed step kids? Cash out?

hmmmm (resized).pnghmmmm (resized).png

#17444 3 years ago

The fat lady is singing!

#17445 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

FCC, CE etc is public record. Sleuth around and see if they're actually even doing it. That could be a lie as well.

Yeah this excuse from RM makes zero sense. They had several 20 year pinball vets that would have red flagged this requirement years ago. Robert is just figuring out how to get UL passed in year 7? I’m calling BS as well. Carl Hardy said it best. “I had this in my thought when I was there. I almost felt this was a GIANT SCAM!”

I think they release less than 100 pins and close shop. Deeproot gets pulled like a weed and takes a dirt nap

12
#17446 3 years ago

just remember that the failure here is Robert; and he has out failed every other pinball fail added up together.

The start, the middle and ultimately the mega end that is coming only one person to blame -> Robert.

#17447 3 years ago

Is it possible this recent delay is the last hope to sell it? I cannot see any games getting made.

The wording in the last update may mean store credit as I’m not sure they are saying the will refund as it was in a sentence with options.

14
#17448 3 years ago

Twipy needs to add a Darwin award.

p44-Guy-chopping-branch-off-tree-silly (resized).jpgp44-Guy-chopping-branch-off-tree-silly (resized).jpg
#17449 3 years ago

How long can this possibly go on for?

12
#17450 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

How long can this possibly go on for?

2 weeks.

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