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deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#17201 2 years ago

Probably a big update coming tomorrow on production progress. After all it will be April 1st.

#17202 2 years ago

I have a different take on Deeproot waiting till the last moment for the promised update. Intentional or not, they're jerking the pre-order people around. Each delay, especially with a contrived excuse is demoralizing and keeping customers in suspense like this wont inspire loyalty.

Deeproot could have and should have sent out an update a week ago. And if this one doesn't include meaningful pictures we may see the pre-order thread begin to spill blood.

#17203 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

And if this one doesn't include meaningful pictures, we may see the pre-order thread begin to spill blood.

I'm reminded of when Heighway was working on their "Secret" project (which turned out to be the Bacardi game) and Pinball News published an update with sections blurred out. That's a way of hiding a secret.

Right now, with no photos shown of the "quad manufacturing", I'm left with the memory of Robert waving his hands around in an empty room that he showed the VIPs and until shown otherwise that space is still an empty room.

12
#17204 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm reminded of when Heighway was working on their "Secret" project (which turned out to be the Bacardi game) and Pinball News published an update with sections blurred out. That's a way of hiding a secret.
Right now, with no photos shown of the "quad manufacturing", I'm left with the memory of Robert waving his hands around in an empty room that he showed the VIPs and until shown otherwise that space is still an empty room.

Any reasonable person/company would be proud to show their setup if it existed. What a way to quiet all the detractors down.

#17205 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

I watched a documentary called Hired Guns (decent doc - go check it out) and it had a segment about Billy's drummer and what he (Joel) did to the rest of his band. Lets just say Billy Joel comes off as one egotistical son of a bitch, and thats being kind. I like his music, but I separated the art from the artist a long time ago with Billy, not a great human being according to that documentary. And boy are we WAY the phuck off topic now...

How old is that documentary? Joel was a raging drunk for years if not decades, which probably fueled his ass-holery. Dude drunk drove his car into the houses of multiple people on Long Island. Multiple.

I think he’s been sober now for years and I wonder if he’s mellowed and less of a dick? I only care in as much as The Stranger was the second album I ever had and I wore out the grooves. I lost track of Joel outside of his hits once I discovered KROQ.

I’ll bring this back around to Spinal Tap. Why hasn’t this been made? Cult classic - so a cult following - that still touched a mainstream vein (“these go to 11”). A treasure trove of one liners and concept ideas. LCD movie clips would be hysterical. Great music (I mean it, great). I’m dead to rights sure the license would be gettable and affordable. AND, I’m pretty sure the guys - none of them exactly pop culture kings these days - would participate in the creative process (ala Slash).

Get it done JJP! This, honestly, would be my only “take my money” now theme. Sight unseen and playfield chipping be damned.

#17206 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

How old is that documentary? Joel was a raging drunk for years if not decades, which probably fueled his ass-holery. Dude drunk drove his car into the houses of multiple people on Long Island. Multiple.
I think he’s been sober now for years and I wonder if he’s mellowed and less of a dick? I only care in as much as The Stranger was the second album I ever had and I wore out the grooves. I lost track of Joel outside of his hits once I discovered KROQ.
I’ll bring this back around to Spinal Tap. Why hasn’t this been made? Cult classic - so a cult following - that still touched a mainstream vein (“these go to 11”). A treasure trove of one liners and concept ideas. LCD movie clips would be hysterical. Great music (I mean it, great). I’m dead to rights sure the license would be gettable and affordable. AND, I’m pretty sure the guys - none of them exactly pop culture kings these days - would participate in the creative process (ala Slash).
Get it done JJP! This, honestly, would be my only “take my money” now theme. Sight unseen and playfield chipping be damned.

I’m in for a “None More Black” LE

#17207 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I’m in for a “None More Black” LE

Shit sandwich Collector’s edition!

all of the spinal tap guys still have huge careers still going. ALL of them have had shows on in the last year - HS is still on Simpsons, and Michael McKean did a huge run on Better Call Saul. Baron Christopher Guest has kind of a good thing going with a couple of movies he made, and whatever nonsense he has to do as a result of his British royalty thing. I’d love it if they were involved but they all seem kinda busy

At least I hope they get the bloody 40th anniversary bluray together!

#17208 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

How old is that documentary? Joel was a raging drunk for years if not decades, which probably fueled his ass-holery. Dude drunk drove his car into the houses of multiple people on Long Island. Multiple.
I think he’s been sober now for years and I wonder if he’s mellowed and less of a dick? I only care in as much as The Stranger was the second album I ever had and I wore out the grooves. I lost track of Joel outside of his hits once I discovered KROQ.
I’ll bring this back around to Spinal Tap. Why hasn’t this been made? Cult classic - so a cult following - that still touched a mainstream vein (“these go to 11”). A treasure trove of one liners and concept ideas. LCD movie clips would be hysterical. Great music (I mean it, great). I’m dead to rights sure the license would be gettable and affordable. AND, I’m pretty sure the guys - none of them exactly pop culture kings these days - would participate in the creative process (ala Slash).
Get it done JJP! This, honestly, would be my only “take my money” now theme. Sight unseen and playfield chipping be damned.

Joel was out of his mind in early to mid 2000s, and Liberty Devitto confronted him about it .. they had a huge fight. OH AND BY THE WAY Devitto also was suing Billy Joel for publishing royalties he thought he was due. Publishing is for writing the songs. Devitto’s claim was that he “made the songs what they are”, and gave some examples of how he changed the rhythms so that they were more catchy.

He’s a great drummer, but that ain’t the same thing as writing the song.

So I imagine BJ’s management told him to get rid of Devitto, and he (or his lawyer) did. They kinda left all this out of Hired Gun.

I’m not excusing Billy Joel - he does seem to be a huge DB but no one is totally innocent here. Also left out of the documentary is how Liberty Devitto and Joel made up and are on good terms again.

#17209 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

And if this one doesn't include meaningful pictures we may see the pre-order thread begin to spill blood.

I dunno.. some of them are so far up on cloud9 that a jump off it must seem pretty intimidating. And the rest are mostly expecting delays anyway and except that.

So why wait till the last day to update? Either there wasn’t much progress and he was hoping something would happen right before April to make it into the update or they are too busy reinventing memos to publish anything at the moment. Or Robert got tired of Pinside bitching and reassigned update duty to Jpop. March update coming soon.. by November.

18
#17210 2 years ago

Question: With deeproot being 2 years behind schedule they could have set up the manufacturing in parallel to game development. Then staffed up when the time came.

So why didn't they? I think there's 2 options:

1) the real goal was to be bought out or to license out the amazing innovations (none of which are on the playfield)

2) they had very low internal faith in RAZA's sales potential. Recall the interview where Robert had no idea how many units it would sell.

The Glass Door reviews talk about "everything at owners whim". Imagine getting a small business loan or investment and having NO PLAN for what sales would be. No market research of what potential customers want. Or worse, pitching unit sales in the thousands then selling just over 100.

With a good license they could still have started small. Just scan Pinside people will tell you what they want. Grab Big Trouble in Little China , limit it to 500 units, build a line expecting those min sales and you'd be golden.

Manufacturers who call this WrongSide, DarkSide, SewerCide whatever have their heads in the sand. You guys are the direct link to the market, the blood pulsing through the veins of the hobby. So much market research can be done here FOR Free and yet they scoff. Except Stern of course who clearly IS paying attention.

#17211 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Question: With deeproot being 2 years behind schedule they could have set up the manufacturing in parallel to game development. Then staffed up when the time came.
So why didn't they? I think there's 2 options:
1) the real goal was to be bought out or to license out the amazing innovations (none of which are on the playfield)
2) they had very low internal faith in RAZA's sales potential. Recall the interview where Robert had no idea how many units it would sell.
The Glass Door reviews talk about "everything at owners whim". Imagine getting a small business loan or investment and having NO PLAN for what sales would be. No market research of what potential customers want. Or worse, pitching unit sales in the thousands then selling just over 100.
With a good license they could still have started small. Just scan Pinside people will tell you what they want. Grab Big Trouble in Little China , limit it to 500 units, build a line expecting those min sales and you'd be golden.
Manufacturers who call this WrongSide, DarkSide, SewerCide whatever have their heads in the sand. You guys are the direct link to the market, the blood pulsing through the veins of the hobby. So much market research can be done here FOR Free and yet they scoff. Except Stern of course who clearly IS paying attention.

Deeproot isn't a real company. I've always held the opinion that it's a place for RM to dump his profits from the insurance business so he can avoid taxes. He must be making a killing on that side.

13
#17212 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Question: With deeproot being 2 years behind schedule they could have set up the manufacturing in parallel to game development. Then staffed up when the time came.
So why didn't they? I think there's 2 options:
1) the real goal was to be bought out or to license out the amazing innovations (none of which are on the playfield)
2) they had very low internal faith in RAZA's sales potential. Recall the interview where Robert had no idea how many units it would sell.
The Glass Door reviews talk about "everything at owners whim". Imagine getting a small business loan or investment and having NO PLAN for what sales would be. No market research of what potential customers want. Or worse, pitching unit sales in the thousands then selling just over 100.
With a good license they could still have started small. Just scan Pinside people will tell you what they want. Grab Big Trouble in Little China , limit it to 500 units, build a line expecting those min sales and you'd be golden.
Manufacturers who call this WrongSide, DarkSide, SewerCide whatever have their heads in the sand. You guys are the direct link to the market, the blood pulsing through the veins of the hobby. So much market research can be done here FOR Free and yet they scoff. Except Stern of course who clearly IS paying attention.

3rd explanation is that Robert has never manufactured anything and is only a finance guy that knows nothing about actually running a business

#17213 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

3rd explanation is that Robert has never manufactured anything and is only a finance guy that knows nothing about actually running a business

That's also my idea.. and he finally discovered that pinball (manufacturing) is hard.

#17214 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

3rd explanation is that Robert has never manufactured anything and is only a finance guy that knows nothing about actually running a business

Most of the people funding a business, especially one that involves manufacturing something, have no clue what it takes to run that business. However, they for sure have the arrogance (especially if they have lots of money) to believe they do. It’s why I’ve made it a point to never take venture capital of any sort. They are like the guys who fund a movie, and then are going to tell you how to film and direct it, never having done anything beyond watching Netflix and a how to on You Tube.

#17215 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Question: With deeproot being 2 years behind schedule they could have set up the manufacturing in parallel to game development. Then staffed up when the time came.
So why didn't they? I think there's 2 options:
1) the real goal was to be bought out or to license out the amazing innovations (none of which are on the playfield)
2) they had very low internal faith in RAZA's sales potential. Recall the interview where Robert had no idea how many units it would sell.
The Glass Door reviews talk about "everything at owners whim". Imagine getting a small business loan or investment and having NO PLAN for what sales would be. No market research of what potential customers want. Or worse, pitching unit sales in the thousands then selling just over 100.
With a good license they could still have started small. Just scan Pinside people will tell you what they want. Grab Big Trouble in Little China , limit it to 500 units, build a line expecting those min sales and you'd be golden.
Manufacturers who call this WrongSide, DarkSide, SewerCide whatever have their heads in the sand. You guys are the direct link to the market, the blood pulsing through the veins of the hobby. So much market research can be done here FOR Free and yet they scoff. Except Stern of course who clearly IS paying attention.

This is why people are cutting Pinball Brothers a break. Pinsiders know it was a great theme, was an unreliable but well playing machine, and you haven’t heard PB talking smack for years. But they absolutely have many if not all of the same risks as DR does.

#17216 2 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

I dunno.. some of them are so far up on cloud9 that a jump off it must seem pretty intimidating. And the rest are mostly expecting delays anyway and except that.

I agree with you but I gotta add the customers have little choice but to go along. Their non-refundable deposit and whatever legal mumbo-jumbo that went into the indemnity contract has their hands tied.

10
#17217 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I have a different take on Deeproot waiting till the last moment for the promised update. Intentional or not, they're jerking the pre-order people around. Each delay, especially with a contrived excuse is demoralizing and keeping customers in suspense like this wont inspire loyalty.
Deeproot could have and should have sent out an update a week ago. And if this one doesn't include meaningful pictures we may see the pre-order thread begin to spill blood.

Sorry, but pre-order people knew exaclty what they were getting into and forged ahead. Hope it works out, but if it doesnt, going to be hard to muster any sympathy.

#17218 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I’m in for a “None More Black” LE

Jesus, how funny would it be if they made one model that was completely black? Playfield and cab art, all plastics, all hardware (nuts, bolts, posts, guide rails, everything), translight, legs, flipper buttons, the balls etc. I mean every last thing. 100% (aka “none more”) black. Priceless!

Not in this lifetime...

#17219 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Shit sandwich Collector’s edition!
all of the spinal tap guys still have huge careers still going. ALL of them have had shows on in the last year - HS is still on Simpsons, and Michael McKean did a huge run on Better Call Saul. Baron Christopher Guest has kind of a good thing going with a couple of movies he made, and whatever nonsense he has to do as a result of his British royalty thing. I’d love it if they were involved but they all seem kinda busy
At least I hope they get the bloody 40th anniversary bluray together!

I didn’t mean to suggest they aren’t successful. Or busy. They are all successful by any measure. Just that their current popularity level doesn’t seem like it would be “fuck you, don’t you know who I am?”.

They’re older now and might appreciate one last opportunity to inject the spirit of Spinal Tap into the culture. With the evolving demographics of pinball, it might be a fair opportunity to turn an entire new generation on to Spinal Tap.

How about a mode where you’re the drummer, and you see how long you can go (shots or combos you can make) before you spontaneously combust into a little green globule!? Lol.

Or a mini mode where you see how many people you can fit onto a King leisure bed?

A video mode where you need to find the stage? Or find Nigel’s gum?

Two words: Jazz Odyssey.

#17220 2 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Most of the people funding a business, especially one that involves manufacturing something, have no clue what it takes to run that business. However, they for sure have the arrogance (especially if they have lots of money) to believe they do. It’s why I’ve made it a point to never take venture capital of any sort. They are like the guys who fund a movie, and then are going to tell you how to film and direct it, never having done anything beyond watching Netflix and a how to on You Tube.

100%
In my industry, I have seen finance guys come in and take over running a company and they run it into the ground
It's one thing to be able to financially analyze if a business is a good investment - completely different skill to successfully run one.

#17221 2 years ago

Pretty much every post benheck makes is spot on. I don't know how people just jump into an industry they don't understand and expect things to go smoothly.

It's like people that have a good recipes that decide to open a restaurant and fail (because 90% of them do). You want to start making money from your food? Rent someone else's kitchen, or buy a food truck, don't go all in until you're sure it's what you want.

Or people that have a product and think the best thing to do is get it into a brick and mortar like walmart. Nooo, that's the worst way to start out. Retail is absolutely cutthroat, and retailers have the upper hand because they want 30% minimum of your profit just to put it on a shelf, and if it doesn't sell well they kick it out ship it back to you and expect you to pay them back (and maybe even cover shipping cost which eats into your profit even more). They put nearly all the risk on you. Most successful products are sold at least 75% online these days.

It's been said before but bears repeating, EVEN IF by some miracle they manage to build and ship all RAZA's.. If food truck is truly title #2, I DO NOT see how this company survives. They are building boutique pinball quantities on a budget bigger than Stern, the math simply does not work out. I don't care how charismatic Robert is, no investor is going to look at those numbers and continue putting money into a company that has no plan how to get out of the red and show a profit.

#17222 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

I didn’t mean to suggest they aren’t successful. Or busy. They are all successful by any measure. Just that their current popularity level doesn’t seem like it would be “fuck you, don’t you know who I am?”.
They’re older now and might appreciate one last opportunity to inject the spirit of Spinal Tap into the culture. With the evolving demographics of pinball, it might be a fair opportunity to turn an entire new generation on to Spinal Tap.
How about a mode where you’re the drummer, and you see how long you can go (shots or combos you can make) before you spontaneously combust into a little green globule!? Lol.
Or a mini mode where you see how many people you can fit onto a King leisure bed?
A video mode where you need to find the stage? Or find Nigel’s gum?
Two words: Jazz Odyssey.

Those guys also HAVE to do a Spinal Tap project every 5 years or so to protect their copyright. Some crazy deal with the defunct studio that put out the movie. Could be good timing !

#17223 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

80's Nostalgia sells pins. Look at GB. I guess you didn't grow up with the movie? Most people in their late 30's-mid40's love it. It's iconic, funny, has great characters and great music. Would sell great to the pinball demo & do well on location if locations ever come back.
Do I think DR will ever actually make it? No.

try 40's to mid 50's.

24
#17224 2 years ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Probably a big update coming tomorrow on production progress. After all it will be April 1st.

Update for customers by the end of March was an internal goal and external expectation. Not a promise.
They are sorry for not communicating clearly enough. To avoid any misunderstandings in the future, the goals have been removed.

#17225 2 years ago

Wow new game here! Amazing

Looks nice. Some great innovations too.
Now how it plays? How many ramps? What are the main features? Feels like williams pins or last stern regarding rules?
Thanks

#17226 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Wow new game here! Amazing
Looks nice. Some great innovations too.
Now how it plays? How many ramps? What are the main features? Feels like williams pins or last stern regarding rules?
Thanks

Say what?!?

#17227 2 years ago

Am i wrong or Raza pin is now available?

#17228 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Wow new game here! Amazing
Looks nice. Some great innovations too.
Now how it plays? How many ramps? What are the main features? Feels like williams pins or last stern regarding rules?
Thanks

It's called VaporPin (tm).

#17229 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Am i wrong or Raza pin is now available?

Announced?, well, yeah... it is announced, but being built? Available? Any time soon? Not so much...

#17230 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Announced?, well, yeah... it is announced, but being built? Available? Any time soon? Not so much...

I saw some videos.
So what is the planning for this one?

#17231 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Am i wrong or Raza pin is now available?

im sure robert would be happy to sell you one of the spare 40 unsold games at an inflated price of course because you didnt order in the 2 week window

#17232 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

I saw some videos.
So what is the planning for this one?

That, good sir, is the major question that has been contemplated or mused upon in this thread for 345 pages with no real answer in sight yet. So grab some popcorn, a cold beer, and pull up some chair and have a sit. When we know, you'll be right here with us finding out as well.

15
#17233 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Am i wrong or Raza pin is now available?

Anyone else flash on Donny from the Big Lebowski just now?

donny.gifdonny.gif
#17234 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:That, good sir, is the major question that has been contemplated or mused upon in this thread for 345 pages with no real answer in sight yet. So grab some popcorn, a cold beer, and pull up some chair and have a sit. When we know, you'll be right here with us finding out as well.

Ok thanks.
An european distributor seems to take pre order so i thought it was much closer to come than what you say.
Anyway, thanks for the news.

#17235 2 years ago

The Deeproot Facebook page looks like a ghost town. They haven't posted anything snice December 22, 2020.
Reading some of the public comments from back then were interesting.

https://www.facebook.com/deeprootpinball

#17236 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Hope it works out, but if it doesnt, going to be hard to muster any sympathy.

I'm not really sure I've seen anyone looking for sympathy.

#17237 2 years ago

Love this! Keep in mind this was posted Dec 22nd and would have been stipulated by Deep-rooted far before TWIP did!

#17238 2 years ago
20210331_140821 (resized).jpg20210331_140821 (resized).jpg
#17239 2 years ago
Quoted from aeneas:

That's also my idea.. and he finally discovered that pinball (manufacturing) is hard.

or actually creating something rather than just selling paper and bundled ideas is hard.

10
#17240 2 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Love this! Keep in mind this was posted Dec 22nd and would have been stipulated by Deep-rooted far before TWIP did!

So what Phase are they in now?

Gnomes_plan (resized).pngGnomes_plan (resized).png
#17241 2 years ago
Quoted from C_S_S:

So what Phase are they in now?

They are in the "Hide out behind company doors until all interest peters away" phase...

#17242 2 years ago

Phase 2 is looking like have shit in pants.

Or maybe not fully out of Phase 1 where the shitting begins. And continues.

#17243 2 years ago

Lol:

Distributors

deeproot Pinball takes pride in directly serving the needs of our customers. Our main preference is serving the customer before, during, and after sale. In some circumstances, US distributors in the pinball industry may have existing customers they would like to assist in the sales process. We appreciate and want to support those external relationships, without detracting from our direct customer relationships.

FOR RAZA (Prior to January 1, 2021)
US or International Distributors who have an approved distribution agreement may earn a commission for referring a customer to deeproot Pinball. They may also be eligible to buy and then resell RAZA to a third party at market price with a one-time transfer of warranty and support rights. For more information, contact us below.

FUTURE DISTRIBUTION
After January 1, 2021, we want to focus on limited distribution for distributors that commit to selling or buying a minimum number of deeproot machines a year. Distribution rights of our products require the following four criteria to qualify:

-A registered legal entity, full-time staff, and a defined geographical territory
-Prior pinball sales experience
-History of marketing, along with a marketing budget
-A minimum commitment of sales per contract year
-Terms of the distribution, including compensation, will be negotiated every contract year based on your business, geographic territory, exchange rates, and complexity of sales.

#17244 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Lol:
Distributors
deeproot Pinball takes pride in directly serving the needs of our customers. Our main preference is serving the customer before, during, and after sale. In some circumstances, US distributors in the pinball industry may have existing customers they would like to assist in the sales process. We appreciate and want to support those external relationships, without detracting from our direct customer relationships.
FOR RAZA (Prior to January 1, 2021)
US or International Distributors who have an approved distribution agreement may earn a commission for referring a customer to deeproot Pinball. They may also be eligible to buy and then resell RAZA to a third party at market price with a one-time transfer of warranty and support rights. For more information, contact us below.
FUTURE DISTRIBUTION
After January 1, 2021, we want to focus on limited distribution for distributors that commit to selling or buying a minimum number of deeproot machines a year. Distribution rights of our products require the following four criteria to qualify:
-A registered legal entity, full-time staff, and a defined geographical territory
-Prior pinball sales experience
-History of marketing, along with a marketing budget
-A minimum commitment of sales per contract year
-Terms of the distribution, including compensation, will be negotiated every contract year based on your business, geographic territory, exchange rates, and complexity of sales.

If I was a distro..I've be quickly throwing that in the trash bin until they've actually proven themselves with a few games.

#17245 2 years ago

So is everyone ready for tomorrow’s update from Deeproot?

A39CC892-5675-423B-A596-6285A674C2E9.jpegA39CC892-5675-423B-A596-6285A674C2E9.jpeg
#17246 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

So is everyone ready for tomorrow’s update from Deeproot?
[quoted image]

Tomorrow isn't a good day to announce ANYTHING.

16
#17247 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Tomorrow isn't a good day to announce ANYTHING.

I disagree. Deeproot is a joke. Thus, tomorrow is perfect

#17248 2 years ago

What I find absolutely fascinating is that you guys care more about an update from deeproot than I do and I have skin in the game! That is not an attack on you guys, just an observation. I honestly didn’t even remember that we were supposed to get an update by today. The only thing that really matters at this point for me is a game landing on my doorstep. I appreciate deeproot periodically giving us preorder folks updates as transparency is important, but they are essentially meaningless at this stage of the game. Just 2 cents from someone who rolled the dice. Carry on...

10
#17249 2 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

I appreciate deeproot periodically giving us preorder folks updates as transparency is important...

Do you *really* believe that what you are getting from Deeproot is transparency??

#17250 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

So is everyone ready for tomorrow’s update from Deeproot?

Its after business hours in Texas on the final day of March and the pre-order thread is dead. I suspect they have already gotten their update, Deeproot organized a locked down and they have closed ranks.
If true, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

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Sound/Speakers
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
5,800
Machine - For Sale
Midlothian, TX
$ 49.99
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