Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from benheck:That right there is why Spooky succeeded. We didn't make ANY $$$ until games went out the door. You don't work very hard for money that's already in the bank.
I can attest to this on a much, much smaller scale.
Quoted from frolic:We've been shown a lot so far:
Original deadlines blown by years.
Botched launch after much hype and expense.
A lame FOMO sales window of 3 weeks which resulted in crap sales.
Production date delayed, delayed again and then no more new dates given.
Radio silence adopted as a strategy at this late stage, asking customers for a code of silence, which is always the kiss of death.
Not sure why there's any expectation that all of a sudden everything will be different.
Blah, blah, blah broken record of what we all already know Frolic. Lol
Why don’t you just fly down here and meet with Robert to convince him to shut it down. Save us all the drama. You can see your buddy Jpop at the same time 
Quoted from jawjaw:Is Zidware legally tied to DR? I thought DR did the whole good will thing of offering cash or discounts to victims just to avoid litigation headaches. It's not like Jpop filed bankruptcy with one company and then started another like PB.
Both have similar paths..
Zidware "sold" assets to DR.. then had zidware file for bankruptcy. He moved what they thought were the important bits to a new company with more resources.
PB "acquired" assets from HWP.. sold stuff back to HWP so it could run.. and then HWP went bankrupt.. leaving PBros still standing.
PBros is not as simple as 'burn one down and start a new one' as PBros existed before HWP burned up and was in the chain of things. I think a super simplification of PBros was when they were tapped to invest more money in the project, to agree, they required they takeover the assets and the actual inventory.. then sold stuff to HWP so HWP could build games. Because HWP was mismanaging things and being deceptive, PBros required THEY be in direct control of the goods and let HWP consume them. So when HWP burned up, PBros was insulated and still had the important stuff. PBros lose their investment into making HWP viable, but still have assets from the effort.. which they are now trying to use in another effort to build games.
Quoted from frolic:We've been shown a lot so far:
Original deadlines blown by years.
Botched launch after much hype and expense.
A lame FOMO sales window of 3 weeks which resulted in crap sales.
Production date delayed, delayed again and then no more new dates given.
Radio silence adopted as a strategy at this late stage, asking customers for a code of silence, which is always the kiss of death.
Not sure why there's any expectation that all of a sudden everything will be different.
I'm quoting this post because 1) it's spot on 2) Ice needs to see it again
Only haiku from here on out for me in this thread.
Any pics of games?
Octo-manufacturing
should be underway
What ever happened
To Hammer Testing playfields?
No more warranty
Game one is the key
Don't design eight games at once
You'll run out of cash
FOMO didn't work
There's no profit being made
On this quantity
Internal deadlines
Are no longer external
So timelines have changed
Pinball is easy
Unless you are building them
Then pinball is hard
If I meet Frolic
Dinner is on me for sure
You are good people
Quoted from benheck:That right there is why Spooky succeeded. We didn't make ANY $$$ until games went out the door. You don't work very hard for money that's already in the bank.
Quoted from RobT:I'm quoting this post because 1) it's spot on 2) Ice needs to see it again
I’ve seen it. Lived it. And I’m sure I’ll see it over and over again like the broken record it is. Lol
Won’t change a thing the more you say it
I don’t expect the pitchfork crowd to agree.
The thread did run out of steam. 3 weeks of discussing the February update seems to be enough. Also ice got minced and can’t tell anymore how many cars are in the deeproot parking lot.
The thread is in need of the March update to refuel.
Quoted from flynnibus:PBros...still have assets from the effort
Pbros needed to refresh the Alien license with a big chunk of cash.
HP had game 3 (and maybe 4) in the making. But I highly doubt PBros will make use of these efforts.
So it's easy to compare Deeproot with all the pinball failures. What if we compare DR with JJP?
WOZ was years late. I remember the craziness, especially since there were so many pre-orders and money on the line.
What was different about JJP compared to DR:
There was an actual factory.
Jack would show the factory.
Jack hired the best in the industry with ALL aspects of production.
Jack seemed to understand he was in the manufacturing business first.
He only developed 1 title. The second title wasn't even started until after WOZ was done.
There were a bunch of prototype games sent all over. I got to play it at an arcade here while it was still a prototype. I'll even admit it sucked at that time and they made it better.
There were 1000+ pre-orders which showed there were customers for the product.
And even with all the above, and the fact that we're 10 years later and JJP is still around, it was still a nightmare. Can DR overcome the challenge even with the above being absent?
Quoted from woodworker:Only haiku from here on out for me in this thread.
Any pics of games?
Octo-manufacturing
should be underway
What ever happened
To Hammer Testing playfields?
No more warranty
Game one is the key
Don't design eight games at once
You'll run out of cash
FOMO didn't work
There's no profit being made
On this quantity
Internal deadlines
Are no longer external
So timelines have changed
Pinball is easy
Unless you are building them
Then pinball is hard
If I meet Frolic
Dinner is on me for sure
You are good people
My favorite post on pinside of all time. Well done!
My 2 cents... I have no emotional or financial investment in this, and I feel terrible for those who were burned, but as an impartial observer RM seems like a major d0uch3 and unfortunately it is human nature to want people like that to fail. Its a shame that so many other good people will suffer because if it, though.
Quoted from frolic:So it's easy to compare Deeproot with all the pinball failures. What if we compare DR with JJP?
WOZ was years late. I remember the craziness, especially since there were so many pre-orders and money on the line.
What was different about JJP compared to DR:
There was an actual factory.
Jack would show the factory.
Jack hired the best in the industry with ALL aspects of production.
Jack seemed to understand he was in the manufacturing business first.
He only developed 1 title. The second title wasn't even started until after WOZ was done.
There were a bunch of prototype games sent all over. I got to play it at an arcade here while it was still a prototype. I'll even admit it sucked at that time and they made it better.
There were 1000+ pre-orders which showed there were customers for the product.
And even with all the above, and the fact that we're 10 years later and JJP is still around, it was still a nightmare. Can DR overcome the challenge even with the above being absent?
Jack also knew the complication of pinball because he used to route them. The best person to design a product is the one who has to work on them. His only downfall was underestimating the true cost of building a pinball (especially his vision of a full featured pinball).
From the last update posted 21 days ago:
"PARTS & PRODUCTION
As an update, we have the lockbar (not pinbar as reported) and lighted side panel vendors remedied".
I was wondering if anyone has deciphered what that means for the Pinbar or what RAZA will ship with. I'm genuinely confused by it.
Quoted from Mr68:From the last update posted 21 days ago:
"PARTS & PRODUCTION
As an update, we have the lockbar (not pinbar as reported) and lighted side panel vendors remedied".
I was wondering if anyone has deciphered what that means for the Pinbar or what RAZA will ship with. I'm genuinely confused by it.
Pinbar is gone, for now, so they can get RAZA out. Thats my guess.
Quoted from Mr68:From the last update posted 21 days ago:
"PARTS & PRODUCTION
As an update, we have the lockbar (not pinbar as reported) and lighted side panel vendors remedied".
I was wondering if anyone has deciphered what that means for the Pinbar or what RAZA will ship with. I'm genuinely confused by it.
Hilarious. Move the goalposts again. It's ok guys, pinball is easy. The Pinbar could have been an interesting way to offset costs by embedding ads (not that anyone would have liked that, but it would allow them to sell at a lower price point), but why they didn't just put the ads in the backbox is beyond me.
Well, at least they're learning. I wonder on who's dime?
A lock bar is the thing that goes across the coin door to keep thieves from breaking in and stealing money.
I guess that will have a tv screen on it now too?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:A lock bar is the thing that goes across the coin door to keep thieves from breaking in and stealing money.
Thanks Levi. I was confusing a lockbar with a lockdown bar.
Now I'm confused why they thought sourcing a vendor for a lockbar was significant enough to even mention.
Quoted from Mr68:Thanks Levi. I was confusing a lockbar with a lockdown bar.
Now I'm confused why they thought sourcing a vendor for a lockbar was significant enough to even mention. I guess having a Home Depot account is bragging at this stage.
Imagine Deeproot's surprise when 100 lock bars show up instead of lockdown bars.
"No wonder I got them so cheap".
Quoted from Mr68:Thanks Levi. I was confusing a lockbar with a lockdown bar.
Now I'm confused why they thought sourcing a vendor for a lockbar was significant enough to even mention. I guess having a Home Depot account is bragging at this stage.
Why are they including a lockbar when every one of these games is going into a rich dude's basement set on freeplay?
Quoted from benheck:Why are they including a lockbar when every one of these games is going into a rich dude's basement set on freeplay?
Keep the money grubbing relatives from breaking in anyway looking for anything to steal.
LTG : )
What I gathered from the sloppily written statement is that the new lockdown bar and screen forming the PinBar would still be in the game and they have found vendors.
I think Robert was taking a pop shot at someone and muddled what he was trying to say.
Quoted from benheck:Why are they including a lockbar when every one of these games is going into a rich dude's basement set on freeplay?
These will make great gun and topper safes!
Ben, if you started work today on a new pin do you think you could get it in boxes to customers before Food Truck?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:A lock bar is the thing that goes across the coin door to keep thieves from breaking in and stealing money.
I guess that will have a tv screen on it now too?
My money's on whoever wrote that statement now knowing the difference
Quoted from Mr68:Now I'm confused why they thought sourcing a vendor for a lockbar was significant enough to even mention.
Bc it was the only part missing. The other problem was a redesign of the sidepanel for more durability and better spacing. Thats also solved.
So the only obstacle left is the certification process.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I think Robert was taking a pop shot at someone and muddled what he was trying to say.
Its clear. He only mentioned problems (in the January update) so any else is fine esp the pinbar.
As EU customer Im LAST also with the EU certification process which is tougher than U.S. bc of endless EU customer regulations. Whats worrying me is the hold on the tax war with U.S. ends in 4 months July 2021 (25% premium on pinball).
Quoted from Makakka:As a RAZA customer wioth Xtra money in (2+k skin) I tend do read a bit more careful than the angry mob before the castle
That makes sense. But why do you believe what's written? Do you think the next update won't include new + different excuses?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:why do you believe what's written?
Answer to question 1: Bc I trust RM tells the truth. He believes there are no other problems.
Answer to question 2: No. RM showed a lot of naivety in the past hes a new manufacturer. Also a bit exuberant in the past. He blew all kinds of deadlines made promises he could not hold.
The February update was a new low bc he broke the first deadline (March) after collecting preorder money. Never bet against the trend. The trend is he sets a new low. If he does not ship games in April there will be a nice fire here and ill be angry (too).
Quoted from LTG:Keep the money grubbing relatives from breaking in anyway looking for anything to steal.
LTG : )
Rich parents who have kids with "addictions"
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:My money's on whoever wrote that statement now knowing the difference
If this were any other company I would agree. But It's Deep Root so I'm expecting some innovation here - a lock bar with a screen that warns would-be invaders that the cops are on the way is my best bet.
In family use it can be modified to let the parents' know the kids are trying to break in to RAZA in search of weed or porn.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If this were any other company I would agree. But It's Deep Root so I'm expecting some innovation here - a lock bar with a screen that warns would-be invaders that the cops are on the way is my best bet.
In family use it can be modified to let the parents' know the kids are trying to break in to RAZA in search of weed or porn.
What this pinball needs is Viper.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If this were any other company I would agree. But It's Deep Root so I'm expecting some innovation here - a lock bar with a screen that warns would-be invaders that the cops are on the way is my best bet.
In family use it can be modified to let the parents' know the kids are trying to break in to RAZA in search of weed or porn.
LOL. RIP "craziest things I found in a pinball machine" thread.
Quoted from benheck:Why are they including a lockbar when every one of these games is going into a rich dude's basement set on freeplay?
It's to prevent theft of the blanket indemnity contract and the manufacture no-warranty.
Quoted from Mr68:It's to prevent theft of the blanket indemnity contract and the manufacture no-warranty.
No warranty is the best. Just crazy people are okay with that.
Quoted from Makakka:Answer to question 1: Bc I trust RM tells the truth. He believes there are no other problems.
BRO
Quoted from hank527:No warranty is the best. Just crazy people are okay with that.
No warranty??? Where do you guys come up with this stuff? 
Directly from deeproot...
C944B7AB-B0EA-4FC0-BCD3-569CC995C8BC (resized).jpeg
This is just one example of the many myths floating around in this thread that are just simply not true. This kind of bs, as it gains traction and becomes accepted as a general truth, is not only damaging to deeproot and its employees, but to your fellow pinhead’s chances of finally receiving the game they are excited about and put a deposit on. Bottom line...all this nonsense can affect deeproot’s chances of long term success.
[Removed] downvote in...3...2...1...
Carry on...
Quoted from wrb1977:No warranty??? Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
Directly from deeproot...
[quoted image]
This is just one example of the many myths floating around in this thread that are just simply not true. This kind of bs, as it gains traction and becomes accepted as a general truth, is not only damaging to deeproot and its employees, but to your fellow pinhead’s chances of finally receiving the game they are excited about and put a deposit on. Bottom line...all this nonsense can affect deeproot’s chances of long term success.
[Removed] downvote in...3...2...1...
Carry on...
I find it amazing people believe anything they say.
Quoted from hank527:No warranty is the best. Just crazy people are okay with that.
Yes and no. One of the many reasons I don't like Deeproot is the conditions that the Goodwill people were forced into taking. No refund, blanket indemnity and other last minute conditions were dictated to the Goodwill people AFTER they chose to take a game instead of the cash.
And don't forget, they all had to sign a legal waiver 4 or 5 years ago just to get a settlement agreement.
Knowing what we now know, I'll bet the Goodwill people would have chosen cash instead of taking the game. They have no choice but to go along and hope for the best.
Pinsider Fulltilt is the only one that I'm aware of that is playing it smart given the late cards he's been dealt. He has zero new money involved and worse case for him will be a return to square one.
But the Goodwill people that dug into their pockets a second time after they knew of those ridiculous conditions, are rolling the dice along with the new blood. I wish them well but I don't get it.
Quoted from wrb1977:No warranty??? Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
Directly from deeproot...
[quoted image]
This is just one example of the many myths floating around in this thread that are just simply not true. This kind of bs, as it gains traction and becomes accepted as a general truth, is not only damaging to deeproot and its employees, but to your fellow pinhead’s chances of finally receiving the game they are excited about and put a deposit on. Bottom line...all this nonsense can affect deeproot’s chances of long term success.
[Removed] downvote in...3...2...1...
Carry on...
That's great news but when did this come out? This is the first I've heard of it and there's been nothing in the pre-order thread. What about the no refund, the blanket indemnity contract? What else should we know?
Quoted from wrb1977:No warranty??? Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
Directly from deeproot...
[quoted image]
This is just one example of the many myths floating around in this thread that are just simply not true. This kind of bs, as it gains traction and becomes accepted as a general truth, is not only damaging to deeproot and its employees, but to your fellow pinhead’s chances of finally receiving the game they are excited about and put a deposit on. Bottom line...all this nonsense can affect deeproot’s chances of long term success.
Rarezero downvote in...3...2...1...
Carry on...
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing!
So what was touted as a ten-year, hammer-tested warranty for a playfield that would never dimple ends up being a six-month warranty that doesn't cover dimpling.
Robert truly is the gift that keeps on giving (and jpop is the grift that keeps on grifting).
Quoted from Mr68:That's great news but when did this come out? This is the first I've heard of it and there's been nothing in the pre-order thread. What about the no refund, the blanket indemnity contract? What else should we know?
Hey Kim! The warranty info I posted was available from the very beginning of the preorder window. I received that info directly from deeproot back in December while I was deciding whether or not to order RAZA. I had a lot of questions before I took the $500 gamble. Do I believe everything deeproot says like Roostking suggested...hell no! But just enough to gamble $500 on something I think looks cool! It’s a deposit, and like most deposits I’ve ever put down, it’s non-refundable so no big deal. The “blanket indemnity” as it’s being called, honestly is a typical CYA and I couldn’t care less. I’m either going to get RAZA or not, and none of those factors will affect that. I weighed the risk vs reward and determined the $500 gamble was worth it. If I never see RAZA I’m out 500 bucks and I knew that when I signed up and I’m at peace with that. Hope all is well!
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Very interesting. Thank you for sharing!
So what was touted as a ten-year, hammer-tested warranty for a playfield that would never dimple ends up being a six-month warranty that doesn't cover dimpling.
Robert truly is the gift that keeps on giving (and jpop is the grift that keeps on grifting).
You’re welcome. As per deeproot as of December, the playfields WILL be hammer tested. As you stated they do not specifically mention dimpling, but they do state that the warranty will cover pooling, which is the main issue I have with many current manufacturer’s playfields. So assuming they honor this, this a step in the right direction with modern playfields.
Quoted from wrb1977:And right on cue, my [Removed] downvotes are trickling in!
He's gotta' hard-on for hatin' Deeproot.. what can you say.
Quoted from wrb1977:they do state that the warranty will cover pooling
Very interesting. Where is that from?
Quoted from Mr68:What about the no refund
RM gave the „warranty“ he keeps the preorder money locked until all RAZAs are delivered. That’s how you roll in Texas.
End of 2018 RM stated the deeproot enterprise runs on 750k/month as proof several pins release in 2019 bc „a short term release is necessary“. But then investors threw in an extra round of money to keep their investment alive.
Quoted from RCA1:Why doesn't Deeproot have the full warranty on their website?
Can someone who has it please post the whole thing?
Is there more than this?
Seems like there should be more. Like how to make a claim, what "Covered" means, replacement, pro-rated, etc.
It also seems like that post is showing that you would see the warranty information AFTER making the purchase. It would be nice to know what warranty and other terms and conditions you are agreeing to, before you agree to them.
Also appears like no warranty outside the US.
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