(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#16751 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I don’t want your boomer ass throwing out your sciatic picking up the mic.
Sure you picked the winner in the litigation of maybe getting something vs squeezing blood out of a turnip. Good for you. You realized JPop was a bum with no money. (If more people realized this it wouldn’t have gone this far)
Deeproot is still a company that doesn’t know what it’s doing. That’s it
Saying they have nothing to do with Zidware, other than JPop, is willful denial.
But whatever. Imma go enjoy a fine IPA and some pinball. Apologizes to others who saw this, by southern standards, vicious argument.

1. Not sure what age/boomer has to do with it.

2. I'm no lawyer, but it seems JPOP is an employee and nothing more. Do you have some documentation that backs up your claims?

Most likely, dr is failing as far as I am concerned

#16752 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

1. Not sure what age/boomer has to do with it.
2. I'm no lawyer, but it seems JPOP is an employee and nothing more. Do you have some documentation that backs up your claims?
Most likely, dr is failing as far as I am concerned

1) playful banter

2) deeproot effectively bought out Zidware. You can get into whatever semantics that you want about how they’re technically separate entities. Deeproot bailed out John which was buying whatever of value Zidware was while minimizing obligations. They tried to bully buyers of Zidware preorders into a “goodwill agreement” to forgo the rights they had against John/Zidware in bankruptcy court (an offer summed up as “better fifty cents to the dollar than nothing”). They had a back and forth between other claimants like Pintasia and American Pinball over to what they owned, such as IP, when they were trying to bail out John/Zidware. You can look at John’s bankruptcy court documents and determine that deeproot has him by the balls. Maybe a court could figure out that deeproot could hire JPop to make all the games he sold to others without repercussion, but Robert obviously tried to hedge that bet with small payouts and legal bullying to make the issue go away.

I’m not a judge so my opinion on those matters doesn’t matter. It’s a moot point.

But I’m going to call out the guy who says he got a discount despite giving JPop thousands of dollars years ago just because he maybe finally getting a game this year. That’s simple to prove wrong with basic math.

#16753 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If we would have partnered up with Steve Jobs in his garage back in the 90s we would be much better off too. Lol

No you wouldn't. He'd have ripped you off just like he did Wozniak.

#16754 3 years ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

No you wouldn't. He'd have ripped you off just like he did Wozniak.

Hoo boy! Considering what Jpop, Kulek and Heighweigh took him for, Jobs would have taken his deli meats, Shasta, all his booze AND all his beer money.

12
#16755 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Quite right. It's about time Zidware is taken out back behind the barn and finished off for good.
This CANCER needs to be cut from the hobby.

Zombies never actually die. Instead, this is what they do.

They wander around aimlessly for eternity, sometimes headless, with outstretched arms, and on occasion, they stop, look around for victims and take pre-order deposits.

26
#16756 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You aren’t a plaintiff. You were part of Zidware
Good luck with that!!! Nothing is getting done. Have Zane call me but there are only 6 left.
One of which profited greatly already that I know of
Get your facts straight

Jesus. When will you take the hint?

DEEPROOT IS ZIDWARE 2.0!

(say that like you would "Solyent Green is People!")

13
#16757 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Jesus. When will you take the hint?
DEEPROOT IS ZIDWARE 2.0!
(say that like you would "Solyent Green is People!")

I'll step in for him...

"as long as I get my game I don't care!!"

"What they did doesn't matter as long as some games get made!"

#16758 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Jesus. When will you take the hint?
DEEPROOT IS ZIDWARE 2.0!
(say that like you would "Solyent Green is People!")

This raises an interesting question. John failed with $1M (Zidware 1.0) , and quite possibly now with $10M (Zidware 2.0). Suppose there was Zidware 3.0 (I mean he’s gotten this far so we can’t say it’s impossible), and let’s say it’s now $100M. Is there any limit to the amount of dollars he could plow thru and still fail ? If you give a person enough money don’t they have to eventually put out a machine ? Or is John someone who with more money will asymptotically approach putting out a machine, but never quite actually achieve it ? Curious minds want to know.

#16759 3 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

This raises an interesting question. John failed with $1M (Zidware 1.0) , and quite possibly now with $10M (Zidware 2.0). Suppose there was Zidware 3.0 (I mean he’s gotten this far so we can’t say it’s impossible), and let’s say it’s now $100M. Is there any limit to the amount of dollars he could plow thru and still fail ? If you give a person enough money don’t they have to eventually put out a machine ? Or is John someone who with more money will asymptotically approach putting out a machine, but never quite actually achieve it ? Curious minds want to know.

logarithmic failure

-2
#16760 3 years ago

Soylent Green is People!!!!????
Why am I always the last to know!?

Gotta throw that shit in the trash.

Message from the Freeeek Kingdom.

1292814-13-20200417190215 (resized).png1292814-13-20200417190215 (resized).png
#16761 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

My boomer ass is quite fine and loaded up!
Now my southern standards will always override.
Bottom line. You don’t know SHIT about being involved Trey Boi. So enjoy that IPA bruh. Because I am too.
Have to “ignore” the ignorant which is most of what i see now.

Quoted from flynnibus:

I'll step in for him...
"as long as I get my game I don't care!!"
"What they did doesn't matter as long as some games get made!"

You forgot I'm right and all those that lost money are idiots.

The shear arrogance here. Ice needs to drain this thread or risk alienating himself from the community. I almost chimed in on the comment about people working for him. I will now as this is too much.

In our company, we all work together. I have team members working for a common good. If someone says you, I correct them to we. Enough said.

#16762 3 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

This raises an interesting question. John failed with $1M (Zidware 1.0) , and quite possibly now with $10M (Zidware 2.0). Suppose there was Zidware 3.0 (I mean he’s gotten this far so we can’t say it’s impossible), and let’s say it’s now $100M. Is there any limit to the amount of dollars he could plow thru and still fail ? If you give a person enough money don’t they have to eventually put out a machine ? Or is John someone who with more money will asymptotically approach putting out a machine, but never quite actually achieve it ? Curious minds want to know.

So long as there's another fool out there willing to invest time and money into John, there's no limit to how many times he can fail. I also think John is one of these people that never actually wants to finish a project because once it's done, you are judged on your results. If the project never finishes, you will always speculate how awesome it's going to be. It's like when a video game gets hyped up and in your imagination it's the greatest game ever made, and then cyberpunk actually gets released and it's a bugfest.

#16763 3 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

This raises an interesting question. John failed with $1M (Zidware 1.0) , and quite possibly now with $10M (Zidware 2.0). Suppose there was Zidware 3.0 (I mean he’s gotten this far so we can’t say it’s impossible), and let’s say it’s now $100M. Is there any limit to the amount of dollars he could plow thru and still fail ? If you give a person enough money don’t they have to eventually put out a machine ? Or is John someone who with more money will asymptotically approach putting out a machine, but never quite actually achieve it ? Curious minds want to know.

1, 10 or $100 million, ramps to nowhere don’t play.

19
#16764 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Get your facts straight

No u

Quoted from iceman44:

Fast forward to the real world, which we live in, DR will make the remainder of the smart people whole.

"I've fallen for every pinball scheme so far, and I ignore more red flags than a used car lot, I let DR be in breach of contract with me, but as long as I get a game this time, I'm really really super smart!"

Even in the best case scenario, theres a ton of good people who will never be made whole. I suggest calling Chris over at cointaker and telling him how dumb he is since he won't be made whole by DR. Theres a laundry list of other "idiots" out there too.

#16765 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

So long as there's another fool out there willing to invest time and money into John, there's no limit to how many times he can fail. I also think John is one of these people that never actually wants to finish a project because once it's done, you are judged on your results. If the project never finishes, you will always speculate how awesome it's going to be. It's like when a video game gets hyped up and in your imagination it's the greatest game ever made, and then cyberpunk actually gets released and it's a bugfest.

I used to have an engineer working for me just like that. Solved that problem by not continuing to indulge. Once the paycheck gets cut off unless something is produced it’s game over.

#16766 3 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Srsly now, 150 posts in one day about NOTHING and in the end it's Deeproots fault that this thread continuously explodes?

You should srsly overthink your priorities in life.

Correction: 151

#16767 3 years ago

Funny how this thread chugs along in spurts.

Who’s watching all these Bowden rules short videos? Anything looking interesting?

Who controls the deep root fund? You gotta think anyone at this point would be looking at the money sunk in this and be looking to pull the plug. Esp. If a board has control?

-1
#16768 3 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

No u

"I've fallen for every pinball scheme so far, and I ignore more red flags than a used car lot, I let DR be in breach of contract with me, but as long as I get a game this time, I'm really really super smart!"
Even in the best case scenario, theres a ton of good people who will never be made whole. I suggest calling Chris over at cointaker and telling him how dumb he is since he won't be made whole by DR. Theres a laundry list of other "idiots" out there too.

Yeah, AND he claims to be a lawyer?

Must be out chasing ambulances or making another 222-2222 commercial.

#16769 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Have to “ignore” the ignorant which is most of what i see now.

Maybe if we all try REALLY REALLY hard, Ice will ignore everyone...leaving him with a thread where he just speaks to himself.

That's funny, right?

#16770 3 years ago

I find Iceman entertaining. I do worry for his well being sometimes and I don't wish him unhappiness.

I do find the idea of him talking to himself in this thread humorous though.

It would be the deeproot of pinside threads. Incompetent. Clueless. Unaware. Unrepentant.

#16771 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

So long as there's another fool out there willing to invest time and money into John, there's no limit to how many times he can fail. I also think John is one of these people that never actually wants to finish a project because once it's done, you are judged on your results. If the project never finishes, you will always speculate how awesome it's going to be. It's like when a video game gets hyped up and in your imagination it's the greatest game ever made, and then cyberpunk actually gets released and it's a bugfest.

I splurged on a RTX 3070 and now Cyberpunk runs great but it still isn't fun to me

John would have potential but yes, he never wants to go past the "fun" part of design. That's why he wasted time on KISS and Space Mission X and God knows what else instead of finishing his existing sales.

#16772 3 years ago

Exciting (somewhat old, it appears) news: Pinball Universe is the official distributor for deeproot pinball in Germany! Here's their page advertising RAZA, deeproot's groundbreaking first game which Germans presumably are not allowed to order since the sale window opened and closed in December 2020.

https://pinball-universe.de/autorisierter-deeproot-pinball-haendler

#16775 3 years ago

While not generally a fan of Kaneda this post I have to say was spot on here

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#16776 3 years ago

I see they have an option to put down 500 pounds non refundable deposit OR the full amount. Perhaps Ice wants to grab another at full price. Real men put down the full amount before the game has shipped. Why screw around with these $100 piddly side bets when you can make the grow hair on your chest $6500 bet all over again. Double or nothin ?

#16777 3 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

While not generally a fan of Kaneda this post I have to say was spot on here
[quoted image]

That's great and all pimping Stern, but at 28 I believe that's also counting home editions, and the countless rethemes they did with existing games (juicy melons became can crusher and primus, star wars home edition becoming heavy metal, spiderman home edition becoming supreme). I'll take quality over quantity any day.
Interesting that Charlie was printing cabinet art for JJP on woz (which was 2-3 years in the business), starts his own small pinball company and a year later starts pumping out games (and is currently beating them on number of titles).

#16778 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

That's great and all pimping Stern, but at 28 I believe that's also counting home editions, and the countless rethemes they did with existing games (juicy melons became can crusher and primus, star wars home edition becoming heavy metal, spiderman home edition becoming supreme). I'll take quality over quantity any day.
Interesting that Charlie was printing cabinet art for JJP on woz (which was 2-3 years in the business), starts his own small pinball company and a year later starts pumping out games (and is currently beating them on number of titles).

For sure. Will get no argument from me. However I don’t think it’s coincidence that Chris listed both Deeproot and Zidware last on the list with goose eggs by both. Definitely a dig here I think

#16779 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Interesting that Charlie was printing cabinet art for JJP on woz (which was 2-3 years in the business), starts his own small pinball company and a year later starts pumping out games (and is currently beating them on number of titles).

List isn't 100% correct. IMO, Jetsons and Dominos barely qualify and AMH is missing. For JJP, Woz was left off the list. Doesn't affect the point he was making though.

#16780 3 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

List isn't 100% correct. IMO, Jetsons and Dominos barely qualify and AMH is missing. For JJP, Woz was left off the list. Doesn't affect the point he was making though.

I made the same two mistakes (AMH & WOZ) on his Facebook post. However, if you read the caption to the photo he began the list at 2015 so they don't count.

Pinball Adventures should show as zero and not 1 as Punny Factory has not shipped yet. - I agree we're just nit picking as it doesn't distract from his point.

#16781 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I splurged on a RTX 3070 and now Cyberpunk runs great but it still isn't fun to me
John would have potential but yes, he never wants to go past the "fun" part of design. That's why he wasted time on KISS and Space Mission X and God knows what else instead of finishing his existing sales.

Yeah, I've been looking for a 3070 or 3060ti for a couple weeks now. Anything in-stock goes within 10 seconds being grabbed by the bots, or the hungry gamer/miner masses. And I don't want to pay triple the MSRP for ebay scalped cards. I know some guys that have been hunting for months.

#16782 3 years ago

I bought myself a scalped 3070 for Xmas. I just REALLY wanted it. Between Amazon card points and selling my 980 on eBay (still valuable) I was only about $200 out of pocket.

Here's a pic of Houdini from Expo 2016. Looks awesome but yeah, just a bunch of "shots to nowhere" and laser plastics instead of toys. Oh an of course YET AGAIN another "lamp spinner"

RE: DR distributors... if they bought some that means the actual new sales to individual customers is even LOWER. (whop whaaaa trombone sound)

IMG_20161014_163635346 (resized).jpgIMG_20161014_163635346 (resized).jpg
#16783 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I bought myself a scalped 3070 for Xmas. I just REALLY wanted it. Between Amazon card points and selling my 980 on eBay (still valuable) I was only about $200 out of pocket.
Here's a pic of Houdini from Expo 2016. Looks awesome but yeah, just a bunch of "shots to nowhere" and laser plastics instead of toys. Oh an of course YET AGAIN another "lamp spinner"
RE: DR distributors... if they bought some that means the actual new sales to individual customers is even LOWER. (whop whaaaa trombone sound)[quoted image]

In the words of Fernando, that looks MAHVELOUS. And you know it is better to look good than to feel good.

#16784 3 years ago

b.d. (before deeproot) was a list a new company "had" to fulfill in order to be successful and accepted. Applied to deeproot.

1. Under promise, over deliver

failed timeline promises broken price promises broken almost everything broken.

2. Keeping things small and tight in the beginning

failed announced 8 titles delivered 0

3. Not massive overhead.

failed RM is a big baller

4. Having a true love for pinball

fulfilled RM is a big fan

5. Awesome talent

fulfilled JPop is GOAT (controversial) Nordman left some designs Oursler and Norris all proved their talent

6. Being on this site for some time.

failed RM quit pinside some years ago.

7. Many here know them and consider them friends.

failed RM is not part of the pinside scene

8. Not being total douches

failed RM and Jpop showed significant obnoxious behaviour

9. Having an original idea

fulfilled cohesive intriguing non licened themes like no other atm (RAZA MG AIW in Wonderland not Food Truck) pinpod pinbar and some other

10. Having total support from the pinball community

failed

11. Having support from their own community

failed some ex employees throwing dirt landlord selling property for uncertain future

12.1 Not building a prototype, showing it at expo, taking money for said game and still not building any games

failed RM took money and broke his 8 week promise

12.2 12.1 + asking for money for game #2 and tell people it will be ready soon.

fulfilled no orders for Food Truck accepted

13. Offering a stupid rug with a pinball for 9,000 $

fulfilled RAZA has value and is a divine pin

8 of 13 failed. Thats main reason for all the FUD here. For ME 5. and 13. trumped all thats why deeproot took my money will order all JPop pins asap on xtra with all xtras (food truck is a joke) even before delivery of a single pin cant help it as one of the biggest Jpop fans.

Quoted from benheck:

Looks awesome but yeah, just a bunch of "shots to nowhere"

Would order with help from AP it would have been a working pin. Jpop needs assistance others have to do the work with his genius as bonus.

#16785 3 years ago
Quoted from Makakka:

Jpop needs assistance others have to do the work with his genius as bonus.

JPOP needs assistance - clearly. JPOP has genius - how does one differentiate genius from recycled ideas and blinky lights ? I’m not seeing so much genius as I am riding on a possibly undeserved reputation from 20+ years ago. If one wants to apply the genius (or at least doing something new) moniker Elwin I think would more have my vote a lot more than JPOP.

22
#16786 3 years ago

Jpop is the single most overrated pinball designer in history.

I do not understand the hold he has on people. He's a "legend?" He hasn't produced a successful pinball machine in 25 years! That's a quarter century.

His games are flashy but age terribly with repeated play, and generally rely on gimmicks stolen from ancient games. They didn't sell OR make money on location. His best player game -WCS- was taken away from him because he was overbudget and behind schedule (sound familiar) and finished by others who actually understand how to make pinball machines.

RAZA appears to be the ultimate tribute to his career; it truly is JPOP distilled. You look at that machine over the course of its 4 or 5 tepid "reveals" and for not one second do you think it could be anything other than a Jpop game.

In that sense at least, I suppose it delivers what his fans want. If it ever gets produced I suppose they'll be happy.

#16787 3 years ago

I like most of JPops games a lot. Some have terrible scoring imbalances, but they’re fun and look good. I don’t think they’re any more repetitive than most of their peers

But it was THE TEAM at Williams that made them cool games.

#16788 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I like most of JPops games a lot. Some have terrible scoring imbalances, but they’re fun and look good. I don’t think they’re any more repetitive than most of their peers
But it was THE TEAM at Williams that made them cool games.

I do like to play Theater every now and then, and it was one of the "wow" games when I was rediscovering pinball on location back in college. WCS is a lot of fun too.

I just like to point out there's not a single "legend" in pinball whose fame is built on such a flimsy mountain of crumbs. He hardly did anything, and everything he's been involved with over the past quarter century has been an unmitigated disaster.

Even zizzle!!! Best Buy was blowing those out for 50 bucks at one point!!!

19
#16789 3 years ago

John's made some awesome games. But at B/W with an army behind him.

Since then... Not so much. I think his ego made him believe he can do it all but we've seen the reality.

#16790 3 years ago

It is really unfortunate for everyone involved (excluding deeproot, that company reeks of big business with no soul). John should be designing games that are successfully being built, it is obviously his passion and the people who love the games he designs should be buying them. It is too bad John just didn't get off on the right foot in the beginning and had people help him through the processes he needed help with in order to get his ideas off the ground instead of trying to be this one man show. What a mess that has led to over all these years. Wasted time.....

#16791 3 years ago

viva la raza!

-2
#16793 3 years ago

VIVA LA RAZA!!!

#16794 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

John's made some awesome games. But at B/W with an army behind him.
Since then... Not so much. I think his ego made him believe he can do it all but we've seen the reality.

John has spent more time drinking starbucks coffee paid for by preorders than time designing games...

-1
#16795 3 years ago

Viva La Raza!

#16797 3 years ago

Frank says

viva La Raza

#16798 3 years ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Frank says
viva La Raza

6D6A3BBA-C775-475F-AD4D-A22E059BDDF7 (resized).jpeg6D6A3BBA-C775-475F-AD4D-A22E059BDDF7 (resized).jpeg
#16799 3 years ago

Viva

#16800 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I bought myself a scalped 3070 for Xmas. I just REALLY wanted it. Between Amazon card points and selling my 980 on eBay (still valuable) I was only about $200 out of pocket.
Here's a pic of Houdini from Expo 2016. Looks awesome but yeah, just a bunch of "shots to nowhere" and laser plastics instead of toys. Oh an of course YET AGAIN another "lamp spinner"
RE: DR distributors... if they bought some that means the actual new sales to individual customers is even LOWER. (whop whaaaa trombone sound)[quoted image]

Key element of design is structure. Every shot should feel like it has a purpose, be distinct from all the others, and sometimes to achieve that, less can be more (eg. AC/CD).

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