(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#16701 3 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

As a consumer, reading their "RAZA Order, Payment, and Shipment Details" page implies to me that games would begin to reach customers approximately six weeks from ordering.
"Ramp up for RAZA
As of the time of opening orders, nearly all pinball manufacturers are experiencing supply chain disruptions and backlogs of orders primarily due to the order volume and the pandemic. Vendors face similar issues and lead times for metals, plastics, componentry and backlit panels are all unpredictable and much longer than pre-pandemic. Even prior to the pandemic many new pinball releases often took 4-6 weeks for manufacturing to ramp up after opening orders, and took months to fulfill all orders. Our RAZA run will be no different.
We plan to ramp up our lines in a slow, controlled manner using phases with a goal to finish and ship all RAZA orders in less than four months. The first three phases will only be games meeting UL certification for North America/Canada. As CE and other international certifications will still be ongoing, we will not ship international orders until the fourth phase at the earliest.
Phase 1: Approximately six weeks as the first games reach customers, with us alternating between Arcade and Xtra editions (backlit side panels being the primary delays for Xtra editions).
Phase 2: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 30.
Phase 3: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 40.
Phase 4: The balance of domestic orders and all International orders."
Then, their "Updated FAQ 12.29.20" stated:
"When will my RAZA be delivered?
We will provide updates as production and shipments happen. We expect to be done with RAZA production well before the stated Phases."
It's no wonder why almost nobody trusts this company.

Does this...

“We expect to be done with RAZA production well before the stated Phases.”

...make sense to anyone - am I reading this wrong??

#16702 3 years ago

As a wise pinball inventor once mused: Pinball is the intersection of cerebral synergy, spatial energy, spiritual integration, creative inspiration, physical perspiration, intellectual resilience...

parts...and

...an assembly line.

That, FeetPoop, is why you fail.

74F718D1-8FC6-4EC9-B069-7377B72D29EE (resized).png74F718D1-8FC6-4EC9-B069-7377B72D29EE (resized).png
#16703 3 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

As a consumer, reading their "RAZA Order, Payment, and Shipment Details" page implies to me that games would begin to reach customers approximately six weeks from ordering.
"Ramp up for RAZA
As of the time of opening orders, nearly all pinball manufacturers are experiencing supply chain disruptions and backlogs of orders primarily due to the order volume and the pandemic. Vendors face similar issues and lead times for metals, plastics, componentry and backlit panels are all unpredictable and much longer than pre-pandemic. Even prior to the pandemic many new pinball releases often took 4-6 weeks for manufacturing to ramp up after opening orders, and took months to fulfill all orders. Our RAZA run will be no different.
We plan to ramp up our lines in a slow, controlled manner using phases with a goal to finish and ship all RAZA orders in less than four months. The first three phases will only be games meeting UL certification for North America/Canada. As CE and other international certifications will still be ongoing, we will not ship international orders until the fourth phase at the earliest.
Phase 1: Approximately six weeks as the first games reach customers, with us alternating between Arcade and Xtra editions (backlit side panels being the primary delays for Xtra editions).
Phase 2: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 30.
Phase 3: Approximately four weeks, with the goal of increasing games leaving per week to 40.
Phase 4: The balance of domestic orders and all International orders."
Then, their "Updated FAQ 12.29.20" stated:
"When will my RAZA be delivered?
We will provide updates as production and shipments happen. We expect to be done with RAZA production well before the stated Phases."
It's no wonder why almost nobody trusts this company.

As a company you get to set the goal line. They set a goal line having no idea what it takes to get to that goal line and no understanding why JJP until recently was 2 years from prototype to shipping machine. One could propose conspiracy theory here for trying to juice orders with an expectation their non refundable deposit would land a machine in 6 weeks. However, my standard comment here is that when there is a choice between conspiracy theory and incompetence, always choose incompetence. It’s the safer bet.

#16704 3 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

However, my standard comment here is that when there is a choice between conspiracy theory and incompetence, always choose incompetence. It’s the safer bet.

"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malfeasance"

#16705 3 years ago

Ramp up to 40 games a week in 6 weeks?
tenor (resized).pngtenor (resized).png

Wait, GIF's don't run on here?

19
#16706 3 years ago

Sure you can. Here's deeproot tackling their first hurdle gif_Hoppla.gifgif_Hoppla.gif

#16707 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I still want to know what the hell "It was meant as an internal goal and external expectation" means
Incredibly ironic it's followed with an apology for being a poor communicator.

It's common in development to have separate internal and external goals. In a real business this allows for different tasks to have their own buffer time for handling change.

For instance, we may target the software team to have an internal goal date of March 19 - but have an 'external FCS" of April 4. The external commitments are all communicated as April 4.. marketing, sales, etc.. all communicate that. Engineering only sees and is measured by by the internal objective of March 19. This buffer allows for deliverables that can't be locked until internal is done (documentation, websites, etc) and to provide some slip time for engineering before you actually impact the "real" release. It's the real world to allow engineering to be measured on goal delivery, give other teams practical time to work with the deliverable, and to allow some flexibility without changing what was communicated to the outside world.

But... everyone in the process knows the difference between the two goals, and that only the external date is ever communicated to the field. The guy leading the show knows the difference.

Such a gaffe (if true) just shows communication problems... but when your whole leadership circle is probably 3 people... it shows either deception or complete ignorance.

#16708 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Ramp up to 40 games a week in 6 weeks?
[quoted image]
Wait, GIF's don't run on here?

Choose the no resize option when uploading

#16709 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

that backglass is literally a rehash of TOM, replace woman with Ben.
[quoted image]

Ben needs to unbutton his shirt a bit more before I make any kind of true comparison.

-2
#16710 3 years ago

Srsly now, 150 posts in one day about NOTHING and in the end it's Deeproots fault that this thread continuously explodes?

You should srsly overthink your priorities in life.

#16711 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It's common in development to have separate internal and external goals. In a real business this allows for different tasks to have their own buffer time for handling change.
For instance, we may target the software team to have an internal goal date of March 19 - but have an 'external FCS" of April 4. The external commitments are all communicated as April 4.. marketing, sales, etc.. all communicate that. Engineering only sees and is measured by by the internal objective of March 19. This buffer allows for deliverables that can't be locked until internal is done (documentation, websites, etc) and to provide some slip time for engineering before you actually impact the "real" release. It's the real world to allow engineering to be measured on goal delivery, give other teams practical time to work with the deliverable, and to allow some flexibility without changing what was communicated to the outside world.
But... everyone in the process knows the difference between the two goals, and that only the external date is ever communicated to the field. The guy leading the show knows the difference.
Such a gaffe (if true) just shows communication problems... but when your whole leadership circle is probably 3 people... it shows either deception or complete ignorance.

I get it to some degree. I'm a civil engineer. We work with a ton of partners to identify/purchase a location, design, permit, and construct a project. It's mostly semantics about float time and managing deliverables.

But the way Robert worded it, he made it sound like the internal and external expectations were the same date (which defeats the purpose). And then he wants to say the external goal isn't a promise of delivery? Does Robert understand words have meanings?

Who am I kidding. He hired the guy who thinks "a layer of social prejudice onto a geometric order of pure emotional control" is an apt description of "Pin-ball." Someone get them a dictionary.

14
#16712 3 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Srsly now, 150 posts in one day about NOTHING and in the end it's Deeproots fault that this thread continuously explodes?
You should srsly overthink your priorities in life.

Whether they sink or pull this off, think of this thread as the cheap seats version of a Harvard Business School report on either “how not to run a business” or “how to pull yourself out of a tailspin when you’ve royally screwed up your business”. Startups fail all the time, but how often does one get the vantage point of a decade long running conversation of how to continually fail but still keep something running for a decade. In many ways this conversation about nothing is actually gold with a lot of weeds in between

#16713 3 years ago

Saw this news story yesterday. The CEO of lordstown motors (electric pickup truck company in ohio) literally made up 100k orders, and they are likely years behind schedule.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39755/lordstown-motors-faked-orders-for-electric-pickup-thats-years-behind-schedule-report

#16714 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Saw this news story yesterday. The CEO of lordstown motors (electric pickup truck company in ohio) literally made up 100k orders, and they are likely years behind schedule.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39755/lordstown-motors-faked-orders-for-electric-pickup-thats-years-behind-schedule-report

It'd be pretty embarrassing if Robert inflated RAZA sales considering they're already miniscule. I guess he sorta already did by rounding up the orders a bit.

#16715 3 years ago
Quoted from bwill:

"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malfeasance"

Pure gold, you made my day with that one...

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Who am I kidding. He hired the guy who thinks "a layer of social prejudice onto a geometric order of pure emotional control" is an apt description of "Pin-ball." Someone get them a dictionary.

That or tell them to lay off the sauce and maybe look into AA.

#16716 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Saw this news story yesterday. The CEO of lordstown motors (electric pickup truck company in ohio) literally made up 100k orders, and they are likely years behind schedule.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39755/lordstown-motors-faked-orders-for-electric-pickup-thats-years-behind-schedule-report

On the bright side, Lordstown Motors didn't ask for a non-refundable down payment.

#16717 3 years ago

So I’ve been away from this thread for about 60 days. What’s the latest? Is the line up?

#16718 3 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

So I’ve been away from this thread for about 60 days. What’s the latest? Is the line up?

Hell no

16
#16719 3 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

So I’ve been away from this thread for about 60 days. What’s the latest?

Ben Heck is doing a swimsuit calendar for 2022 and there's been some drunken wagering if it will be out before RAZA.

12
#16720 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Ben Heck is doing a swimsuit calendar for 2022 and there's been some drunken wagering if it will be out before RAZA.

bet me. BET ME YOU PUSSIES!!!

I didn't think so.

Nobody has the balls!

BET ME!!!!

#16721 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Saw this news story yesterday. The CEO of lordstown motors (electric pickup truck company in ohio) literally made up 100k orders, and they are likely years behind schedule.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39755/lordstown-motors-faked-orders-for-electric-pickup-thats-years-behind-schedule-report

That is very depressing. I was really pulling for them, even considered putting down a deposit! (I'm from Toledo, so really wanted to see them succeed)

#16722 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Ben Heck is doing a swimsuit calendar for 2022 and there's been some drunken wagering if it will be out before RAZA.

He has 291 days to get it done by the end of 2021.

#16723 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Sure you can. Here's deeproot tackling their first hurdle

They have yet to even get to a 1st hurdle, let alone overcome one.

26
#16724 3 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

They have yet to even get to a 1st hurdle, let alone overcome one.

They are redesigning the hurdle.

#16725 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

bet me. BET ME YOU PUSSIES!!!
I didn't think so.
Nobody has the balls!
BET ME!!!!

I said I’d bet him $100 or microbrews that 100 orders are not filled by the end of September.

16
#16726 3 years ago

When I receive my RAZA I’m going to donate $5k to project pinball

I received a discount and will be made whole many years later thx to DR

So you guys can root against that if you’d like

#16727 3 years ago
bUCK (resized).JPGbUCK (resized).JPG
#16728 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

When I receive my RAZA I’m going to donate $5k to project pinball
I received a discount and will be made whole many years later thx to DR
So you guys can root against that if you’d like

I love the charity, but it’s not really a discount considering how much money you gave out x years ago. Better than nothing and I can drink to that

#16729 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I love the charity, but it’s not really a discount considering how much money you gave out x years ago. Better than nothing and I can drink to that

I get credit for $4950 and a discount on the Xe edition whatever it is.

Others HERE have received MG games and profited from that off the $$$ that Raza and AIW people dropped in for Jpop.

How is that not a “discount”? It’s both a discount AND a credit

From my buddy that has played it extensively I’ll take it over OTHER games touted on here as produced and delivered

#16730 3 years ago

I was thinking, if I would’ve Bought bitcoin back in 2013 with my $4750 instead of sending it to JPOP so he could use it to pay for Frappuccino‘s and his Land Rover I could’ve bought 47 bitcoins which at today’s value would be $2.6 million dollars.

#16731 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Saw this news story yesterday. The CEO of lordstown motors (electric pickup truck company in ohio) literally made up 100k orders, and they are likely years behind schedule.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39755/lordstown-motors-faked-orders-for-electric-pickup-thats-years-behind-schedule-report

“All along, the Lordstown Endurance pickup—with its promised quad hub motor system....”

Shades of octo manufacturing anyone ?

#16732 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I was thinking, if I would’ve Bought bitcoin back in 2013 with my $4750 instead of sending it to JPOP so he could use it to pay for Frappuccino‘s and his Land Rover, I could’ve bought 47 bitcoins which at today’s value would be $2.6 million dollars.

That's the kind of thinking that will drive you insane and it's pointless.

I mean, if I had bought some bitcoin in 2013 instead of that shitty $500 toledo project I dragged back from Allentown and ended up dumping at a loss I'd be way ahead of the game too. So what?

#16733 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's the kind of thinking that will drive you insane and it's pointless.
I mean, if I had bought some bitcoin in 2013 instead of that shitty $500 toledo project I dragged back from Allentown and ended up dumping at a loss I'd be way ahead of the game too. So what?

Just let me punish myself Levi, stupid should hurt!

#16734 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I was thinking, if I would’ve Bought bitcoin back in 2013 with my $4750 instead of sending it to JPOP so he could use it to pay for Frappuccino‘s and his Land Rover I could’ve bought 47 bitcoins which at today’s value would be $2.6 million dollars.

If we would have partnered up with Steve Jobs in his garage back in the 90s we would be much better off too. Lol

#16735 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's the kind of thinking that will drive you insane and it's pointless.
I mean, if I had bought some bitcoin in 2013 instead of that shitty $500 toledo project I dragged back from Allentown and ended up dumping at a loss I'd be way ahead of the game too. So what?

I’ll do you one better. If any of us had put our money into ANYTHING than this hobby we would have all been financially better off. The $100K I have put into my arcade has thus far over 3 years earned me $27000 in losses after COVID. Don’t think my wife doesn’t remind me of that continually.

#16736 3 years ago

It’s been 8 years now.

Some of you guys need to F ing LET IT GO

Life is short. Maybe the lawsuit can go on for another 10 yrs. I’m sure Zane will love it. Lol. Actually, he probably views it as a total pain in the ass

No doubt about that having to deal with his clients!!!

-1
#16737 3 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

I’ll do you one better. If any of us had put our money into ANYTHING than this hobby we would have all been financially better off. The $100K I have put into my arcade has thus far over 3 years earned me $27000 in losses after COVID. Don’t think my wife doesn’t remind me of that continually.

You could have bought a $100k boat or RV and be worse off.

20
#16738 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It’s been 8 years now.
Some of you guys need to F ing LET IT GO

Quite right. It's about time Zidware is taken out back behind the barn and finished off for good.

This CANCER needs to be cut from the hobby.

#16739 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Quite right. It's about time Zidware is taken out back behind the barn and finished off for good.
This CANCER needs to be cut from the hobby.

You aren’t a plaintiff. You were part of Zidware

Good luck with that!!! Nothing is getting done. Have Zane call me but there are only 6 left.

One of which profited greatly already that I know of

Get your facts straight

#16740 3 years ago

Am I the only one who wishes Ice would stop practicing law with a license?

#16741 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I get credit for $4950 and a discount on the Xe edition whatever it is.
Others HERE have received MG games and profited from that off the $$$ that Raza and AIW people dropped in for Jpop.
How is that not a “discount”? It’s both a discount AND a credit
From my buddy that has played it extensively I’ll take it over OTHER games touted on here as produced and delivered

I ain’t hating bruh. I hope you have fun with your toy whenever it shows up

You’re doing well enough that it was always a relative small gamble. One that just so happened to get a miraculous bail out compared to some others. But come on, you know deep down you’re thankful anything comes out of this.

Dollars and sense say you didn’t get a discount. That’s all.

Zidware didn’t know what they were doing, deeproot doesn’t either. One just has more funding than the other.

I don’t want deeproot to fail. I’m just incredibly frustrated with a pinball company that wants to compete shoots itself in the foot time after time. I benefit as a player and pinball owner if they succeed.

#16742 3 years ago

Inconvenient FACTS

Zidware is dead. Get it?

Delay filings of nothing will get nothing for people that already received games and big $$$ while others got the shaft.

It’s really not that hard. People like Kim [removed] got what he wanted from Jpop. And then some

Now we are getting ours through DR.

You don’t like that. Who cares

#16743 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I ain’t hating bruh. I hope you have fun with your toy whenever it shows up
You’re doing well enough that it was always a relative small gamble. One that just so happened to get a miraculous bail out compared to some others. But come on, you know deep down you’re thankful anything comes out of this.
Dollars and sense say you didn’t get a discount. That’s all.
Zidware didn’t know what they were doing, deeproot doesn’t either. One just has more funding than the other.
I don’t want deeproot to fail. I’m just incredibly frustrated with a pinball company that wants to compete shoots itself in the foot time after time. I benefit as a player and pinball owner if they succeed.

You are an engineer so you will never get the business part. Lol

So I do t care bruh. Get it?

#16744 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You are an engineer so you will never get the business part. Lol
So I do t care bruh. Get it?

Yeah I’m used to business guys telling me what I don’t know about how long stuff takes to perform

Our battle is as old as time

Cheers

#16745 3 years ago

happy hour started early in texas today... another case of the Mondays....

#16746 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Yeah I’m used to business guys telling me what I don’t know about how long stuff takes to perform
Our battle is as old as time
Cheers

Cheers brother. I have to deal with engineers all the time that have no clue about the finance and bottom line

Since this Zidware is new to you let me tell you that there is ZERO f ing chance that the pied piper of litigation will get anything there.

Fast forward to the real world, which we live in, DR will make the remainder of the smart people whole.

Why they did it? Questionable and quite stupid BUT the other dummies chose the litigation route which was a guaranteed ZERO

DR, whom you hate along with others, has nothing to do with Zidware other than Jpop the individual.

Big picture? Nobody gives a F about either!!!!!!!!!!

Can you drop that mic?

#16747 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Can you drop that mic?

I don’t want your boomer ass throwing out your sciatic picking up the mic.

Sure you picked the winner in the litigation of maybe getting something vs squeezing blood out of a turnip. Good for you. You realized JPop was a bum with no money. (If more people realized this it wouldn’t have gone this far)

Deeproot is still a company that doesn’t know what it’s doing. That’s it

Saying they have nothing to do with Zidware, other than JPop, is willful denial.

But whatever. Imma go enjoy a fine IPA and some pinball. Apologizes to others who saw this, by southern standards, vicious argument.

#16748 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Fast forward to the real world, which we live in, DR will make the remainder of the smart people whole.

LQBb.gifLQBb.gif

#16749 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It’s really not that hard. People like Kim [removed] got what he wanted from Jpop. And then some

Once again you're obsessing over me and now beginning to escalate. Do yourself a favor and return me to your ignore list.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/part-2-beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa-/page/7#post-6141781
z Iceman Obsessing (resized).pngz Iceman Obsessing (resized).png

-2
#16750 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I don’t want your boomer ass throwing out your sciatic picking up the mic.
Sure you picked the winner in the litigation of maybe getting something vs squeezing blood out of a turnip. Good for you. You realized JPop was a bum with no money. (If more people realized this it wouldn’t have gone this far)
Deeproot is still a company that doesn’t know what it’s doing. That’s it
Saying they have nothing to do with Zidware, other than JPop, is willful denial.
But whatever. Imma go enjoy a fine IPA and some pinball. Apologizes to others who saw this, by southern standards, vicious argument.

My boomer ass is quite fine and loaded up!

Now my southern standards will always override.

Bottom line. You don’t know SHIT about being involved Trey Boi. So enjoy that IPA bruh. Because I am too.

Have to “ignore” the ignorant which is most of what i see now.

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