Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:With the right art and callouts....[quoted image]
Coming 2015 ayeeee
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
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Quoted from JodyG:I'm not sure if this one was posted before...but yikes!
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The good news is they’ve made it longer than the 3 months this employee predicted.
Quoted from JodyG:I'm not sure if this one was posted before...but yikes!
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LOL @ "texas workforce commission."
I don't know what it is, but it's Texas. If you are an employee I doubt you can expect much help when faced with a deadbeat, abusive boss. It's most likely completely staffed by rich industry folks.
For the low low price of $5,200,000 you can buy the building Deeproot is currently working out of! https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/12621-Silicon-Dr-San-Antonio-TX/21538789/
DR (resized).pngQuoted from JodyG:I'm not sure if this one was posted before...but yikes!
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ItS JuSt oNe DiSgRuNtLeD EmPloYeE
I thought they might hand build a dozen or so Raza with a small handful of people but I'm starting to wonder if that will even come to fruition. Isn't looking so good. Time keeps marching on. Nothing substantive. Broken Promises. Changing rhetoric and troubling things surrounding it all including facility and staffing questions. Adding up what is, or what isn't does not paint a picture of much confidence. This is shaping up to be zidware 2.0 on a different metric. Looks like a house of cards all things considered.
I wouldn't read into the building being for sale at all. DR leases the space, and the building owner is what is changing hands. Deeproot isn't selling the building, and a new owner most likely would not be tossing anyone out on the street. The sale listing on the building is pretty much a non-story.
Quoted from russdx:To be fair any one here could of wrote that review.. id take it with a pinch of salt.
actually there's 2 negative reviews, they are from glassdoor
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Deeproot-Tech-Reviews-E2552550.htm
I wrote a glassdoor review for a former company, and in the past 10 years nothing has changed. Every employee that has worked there has nearly the same exact story. Management tears into it's employees, and anyone who is hired as family members of the owner gets special treatment (IE leave when they want, do what they want and never get reprimanded)
I wouldn't be surprised as more people are let go that this thing doesn't fill up.
Quoted from iceman44:but the reality is that people are working on games
Quite a statement.
Quoted from benheck:If they are short on cash how do they raise more? Robert probably sold the investors on the promise "thousands of units sold" but the reality is barely 100 new sales.
Who is going to invest in that?
A Food Truck announcement would go a long way toward raising that nut!
We joke about Food Truck but it's kind of taken on a life of its own. At this point, if they revealed another foam core special Food Truck proto with some blinking lights in it, I bet they'd get more orders for it than they did for RAZA.
Quoted from NoQuarters:I thought they might hand build a dozen or so Raza with a small handful of people but I'm starting to wonder if that will even come to fruition. Isn't looking so good. Time keeps marching on. Nothing substantive. Broken Promises. Changing rhetoric and troubling things surrounding it all including facility and staffing questions. Adding up what is, or what isn't does not paint a picture of much confidence. This is shaping up to be zidware 2.0 on a different metric. Looks like a house of cards all things considered.
I think they are still trying. I mean, they could have punted on the whole approvals thing. And I don't think they are using that as a smoke screen. I just think they are facing the hard realities of things you can not just use boisterous talk or hand waving to get around.
To me the real topic is not the surprise they are floundering... but IF THEY WILL CHANGE to adapt and overcome. That unfortunately.. is not looking good yet.
Quoted from JodyG:I wouldn't read into the building being for sale at all. DR leases the space, and the building owner is what is changing hands. Deeproot isn't selling the building, and a new owner most likely would not be tossing anyone out on the street. The sale listing on the building is pretty much a non-story.
exactly.. like it was said before yet people keep chasing the blinky light 
Quoted from benheck:If they are short on cash how do they raise more? Robert probably sold the investors on the promise "thousands of units sold" but the reality is barely 100 new sales.
Who is going to invest in that?
Pinsiders
I think they’re just going through a lot of very expensive lessons.
There were a lot of unknown unknowns to leadership (or they didn’t listen to their employees and/or get any experienced advisors)
It felt like a red flag back in December when Robert was on a pod discussing the cert tests. It was just odd for the head of a company to be stumbling his way through the explanation of the process on a podcast trying to sell the game. Like why don’t you know this relatively common process by now when you’ve been working towards a finished product for years? It came off like he only just learned of it when it should have been on the production timeline schedule before order banks were open. Does Robert not understand the principles of the critical path method or does he ignore the advice? Further, why is the leader of the company even talking about this stuff? Does he not have people in place to handle these tasks?
They have to really believe in Food Truck or whatever comes next as making all this worth it. I wouldn’t blame Robert if he cut his losses and just refunded what money he collected. Even if they somehow start cranking out a few thousand games a year, it’ll be at least a decade to make a single dime
Quoted from toyotaboy:i dont think RM is trying to scam anyone, but i do think his business plan is spiraling based on broken promises.
I have no idea what their business model looks like or what their expected profit margins are but I do wonder how many machines they need to sell before they are in the black.
Quoted from JodyG:I'm not sure if this one was posted before...but yikes!
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Now this is just starting to feel sad. The limited FOMO non refundable ordering was primarily a compressed cash raise. The rush into a reveal and then push into building an unfinished product all driven by cash flow. I was hoping they had cash but just mismanaging the company and could dig it out. I agree looking like the curse of Zidware here. If this unfortunately turns out the be the case I have to say JPOP will have earned his place in the PHOF as the most destructive force in pinball ever.
Quoted from russdx:To be fair any one here could of wrote that review.. id take it with a pinch of salt.
I wouldn’t take that with a pinch of salt at all. I can name 10 people who were in this same boat last year. Same story. Told over and over. But by all means “we hope you get your games”
Quoted from TreyBo69:I wouldn’t blame Robert if he cut his losses and just refunded what money he collected.
Except, didn't they make everyone sign a "no refund" agreement? I really hope this works out for everyone, but all signs point to it not ending well.
Quoted from Jvspin:I have no idea what their business model looks like or what their expected profit margins are but I do wonder how many machines they need to sell before they are in the black.
They don’t even know how much their own machines actually cost to build, so there’s no way they know themselves.
Quoted from Calfdemon:Except, didn't they make everyone sign a "no refund" agreement? I really hope this works out for everyone, but all signs point to it not ending well.
Yeah Robert made sure to cover his ass, but I imagine he still not rather go to court over it. They probably didn’t raise more than 75k. A drop in the bucket to the estimated tens of millions already spent
Quoted from flynnibus:I think they are still trying. I mean, they could have punted on the whole approvals thing. And I don't think they are using that as a smoke screen. I just think they are facing the hard realities of things you can not just use boisterous talk or hand waving to get around.
To me the real topic is not the surprise they are floundering... but IF THEY WILL CHANGE to adapt and overcome. That unfortunately.. is not looking good yet.
Manufacturing anything is the hardest business one can possibly be in. I should know as my company hits obstacle after obstacle after obstacle. It’s why almost all high flying startups these days are software where they can do a quick code update or drug companies where they never have to get the drug to the finish line. And pinballs have got to be some of the worst things to build, all manual labor x 10 and thousands of parts. If RM is truly the narcissist that the employee review makes him out to be, that is not who you want there right now. Agree with the reviewer entirely that you have to have someone who can roll up their sleeves, inspire the troops and get the finished part to the end of the assembly line. I say this in all seriousness to them: Good luck. Nobody wins, least of all the investors, employees and early customers if they fail.
Quoted from pookycade:Manufacturing anything is the hardest business one can possibly be in. I should know as my company hits obstacle after obstacle after obstacle. It’s why almost all high flying startups these days are software where they can do a quick code update or drug companies where they never have to get the drug to the finish line. And pinballs have got to be some of the worst things to build, all manual labor x 10 and thousands of parts. If RM is truly the narcissist that the employee review makes him out to be, that is not who you want there right now. Agree with the reviewer entirely that you have to have someone who can roll up their sleeves, inspire the troops and get the finished part to the end of the assembly line. I say this in all seriousness to them: Good luck. Nobody wins, least of all the investors, employees and early customers if they fail.
Are these issues not solved by embracing a "lean and agile" manufacturing ethos, as Deep Root has done?
Quoted from TreyBo69:It felt like a red flag back in December when Robert was on a pod discussing the cert tests. It was just odd for the head of a company to be stumbling his way through the explanation of the process on a podcast trying to sell the game. Like why don’t you know this relatively common process by now when you’ve been working towards a finished product for years? It came off like he only just learned of it when it should have been on the production timeline schedule before order banks were open. Does Robert not understand the principles of the critical path method or does he ignore the advice? Further, why is the leader of the company even talking about this stuff? Does he not have people in place to handle these tasks?
Dude he doesn't even know how to pronounce LED. He kept calling them "lead lights" (as in led zepplin)
Quoted from Scandell:I wouldn’t take that with a pinch of salt at all. I can name 10 people who were in this same boat last year. Same story. Told over and over. But by all means “we hope you get your games”
YoU'rE jUsT bItTeR
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It's always more fun to produce 10 different imaginary pinball machines than 1 actual existing one.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I think they’re just going through a lot of very expensive lessons.
That the so-called "Trolls" in this thread called from a mile away. You literally can visit the first page of this thread to see it was all there.
It was always on deeproot to prove everyone wrong. That is playing out as predicted and in the face of RM's hubris is why this thread is going so strong.
Quoted from pookycade:Agree with the reviewer entirely that you have to have someone who can roll up their sleeves, inspire the troops and get the finished part to the end of the assembly line.
Charlie Emery pops into my head when I read this.
So I'll acknowledge that the pinball prospects seem iffy, but we're still on track for the TV shows, feature films, mobile games, tabletop games, augmented reality, and all the other valuable original intellectual property stuff, right?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:So I'll acknowledge that the pinball prospects seem iffy, but we're still on track for the TV shows, feature films, mobile games, tabletop games, augmented reality, and all the other valuable original intellectual property stuff, right?
"Coming to CBS this fall - Two Broke Men in a Food Truck"
Quoted from Haymaker:YoU'rE jUsT bItTeR
You say “bitter” but what you mean is “the most informed person in this thread”
Quoted from Scandell:You say “bitter” but what you mean is “the most informed person in this thread”
Um when people type in alternating caps it means they are mocking those who say whatever they've typed.
So they're actually on your side.
Quoted from Scandell:You say “bitter” but what you mean is “the most informed person in this thread”
I will gladly start a podcast just to interview you about this!
Quoted from benheck:"Coming to CBS this fall - Two Broke Men in a Food Truck"
In all seriousness, Ben, if the concern that Deeproot would be putting out a Bible game is what turned you off from making yours, do you really think there's any risk at this point in returning to the good book?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:So I'll acknowledge that the pinball prospects seem iffy, but we're still on track for the TV shows, feature films, mobile games, tabletop games, augmented reality, and all the other valuable original intellectual property stuff, right?
Deeproot is the We Work of pinball. Maybe a SPAC is coming soon.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I know Deeproot is way behind schexdue... is there a new catalyst for the latest negative talk?
Nope. We are just trying to keep the thread lean and agile.
Quoted from benheck:The funny thing is RAZA is probably not even that great. Video wasn't very impressive. Where's the... Ahem... MAGIC?
Give them time. It's not like the game has been in development for a decade or anything. It's only been like seven years, right?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Nope. We are just trying to keep the thread lean and agile.
200 (1).gifQuoted from blueberryjohnson:In all seriousness, Ben, if the concern that Deeproot would be putting out a Bible game is what turned you off from making yours, do you really think there's any risk at this point in returning to the good book?
Considering deeproot will be out of business long before they make their idiotically-titled "Fire and Brimstone".... No. Not much risk. Maybe I should.
Quoted from Jvspin:I have no idea what their business model looks like or what their expected profit margins are but I do wonder how many machines they need to sell before they are in the black.
96BE5AB3-37A6-4513-818D-53A5D2BA22D5 (resized).pngI would have loved to be in the room when the order banks closed and they counted the pre-sales. Gotta think that when they started years and years ago that RM envisioned selling 10,000 RAZAs.
Then after a couple years he was like, ok 5,000.
Then a few years later he was, ok, 1,000.
And then, finally, when the order banks went live last year he was “Please God, just give us 500”.
160.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:I would have loved to be in the room when the order banks closed and they counted the pre-sales. Gotta think that when they started years and years ago that RM envisioned selling 10,000 RAZAs.
Then after a couple years he was like, ok 5,000.
Then a few years later he was, ok, 1,000.
And then, finally, when the order banks went live last year he was “Please God, just give us 500”.
160.
It's worse than that. It was like 140, and that included the Goodwill Games (owed to prior Zidware customers)
So new cash sales probably closer to 100. After spending 30 MILLION DOLLARS.
It's mind bogglingly pathetic (I figured they sell around 300) and they'd be better off just giving up.
Quoted from benheck:It's worse than that. It was like 140, and that included the Goodwill Games (owed to prior Zidware customers)
So new cash sales probably closer to 100. After spending 30 MILLION DOLLARS.
It's mind bogglingly pathetic (I figured they sell around 300) and they'd be better off just giving up.
Going off the rails again to crazy town!
DR has NOT spent “tens of millions of dollars” on pinball.
The monies raised was NOT to invest in a pinball company per se
The monies raised were for the “575 fund” which is supported by affiliates, insurance etc. pinball is an “affiliate”
The “investors” have no clue.
The investment committee for 575 I was told had cut off funds to pinball. No idea how true that is.
I dunno Ice. Yeah granted it probably wasn't the whole $30 million but I bet it was still A LOT.
Just back of the napkin math based only on what we've seen... The money piped through Zidware, the Utah studio/staff, the 41k Sq ft. noodling facility, a once large staff of engineers and creative professionals with competitive wages and benefits (not $11/hour line workers)
Might not be $30 million but I bet it's at least 10.
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