Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020If Robert cared about business more than F'ING ART he would have bought out Alien and TBL and used his capital (which he had and they lacked) to build the games!
Games with KNOWN DESIRABILITY and DEMAND. Granted TBL only sold like 275 but that's more than RAZA and it's a real game. Andrew also shipped more Aliens than RAZA sold. DP is still selling new TBL, the demand is there.
But no. Robert went completely cuckoo for John's Coco Puffs and.... Here we are.
Quoted from benheck:If Robert cared about business more than F'ING ART he would have bought out Alien and TBL and used his capital (which he had and they lacked) to build the games!
Games with KNOWN DESIRABILITY and DEMAND. Granted TBL only sold like 275 but that's more than RAZA and it's a real game. Andrew also shipped more Aliens than RAZA sold. DP is still selling new TBL, the demand is there.
But no. Robert went completely cuckoo for John's Coco Puffs and.... Here we are.
Hi Ben,
What is your craziest story/anecdote of working with Jpop, for context?
Stuart
Quoted from TreyBo69:I'm aware, but you can still toss a trademarked name onto the item. Unless the license precludes it, which maybe it does. But they didn't tell that to whomever spraypainted some logos on the box
[quoted image]
A lot of what they do doesn’t make sense to me.
Quoted from Lounge:A lot of what they do doesn’t make sense to me.
It ain't just you 
Quoted from benheck:If Robert cared about business more than F'ING ART he would have bought out Alien and TBL and used his capital (which he had and they lacked) to build the games!
Games with KNOWN DESIRABILITY and DEMAND. Granted TBL only sold like 275 but that's more than RAZA and it's a real game. Andrew also shipped more Aliens than RAZA sold. DP is still selling new TBL, the demand is there.
But no. Robert went completely cuckoo for John's Coco Puffs and.... Here we are.
Gotta agree there. I think he might have tried too late on both?
Quoted from Stuieb84:I'm pretty sure kaneda lost about $3,000 on magic girl resale too
I give him some credit for actually setting it up and trying to play it. Lol
Quoted from iceman44:I want my game Bill. Everybody had the opportunity to file their claim like I did.
Some chose not to and to sue Jpop instead which went nowhere. Some got their MGs however
Maybe it’s those people? Or they should sue Robert too? Lol
Nope they were filed and rejected. This guy is not at all honest and is full of hot air! Mine was one and his reasoning was absolutely a pile of steaming @$#%
Quoted from wcbrandes:Nope they were filed and rejected. This guy is not at all honest and is full of hot air! Mine was one and his reasoning was absolutely a pile of steaming @$#%
Was his reasoning because of your claim to any Ip of Zidware?
Been a lot of $$$ flushed down the Jpop black hole!
Quoted from iceman44:I don’t know Dude. But I’ll let u know when I get my game
I think it was stupid for DR to hire John. I’m sure Robert has regrets now.
The two of them are two peas in a pod and there is no doubt why he hired him. I'm actually wondering if jpop regrets going to work for deeproot! 
And I know you just want your machine bud and i am praying you do!
Quoted from wcbrandes:The two of them are two peas in a pod and there is no doubt why he hired him. I'm actually wondering if jpop regrets going to work for deeproot!
And I know you just want your machine bud and i am praying you do!
Lol. I’m sure as long as Jpop can draw a salary he’s not gonna complain.
And the narcissist and ego-maniac that he is I’m sure he still doesn’t believe he ever did anything wrong!
The fact you never hear from JPop at all tells you DR themselves don’t feel comfortable having him speak or represent the company. I like the pins John did in the 90s, too bad he’s got a lot of bad luggage now he created and hasn’t made amends publicly with his victims. That might have gone a long way, including RM SNTFU and letting the pins do the talking
Quoted from Zablon:Um...you know a pinball machine by itself barely gets thru the door right? There's practically no way a padded box with a pinball machine is getting in a normal door.
Barely is enough. Plus, my NIBs from other companies make it through the door just fine.
The pin pod is just over engineered bs that’s supposed to help but really just solves a problem that doesn’t exist for most people.
Also cuts down drastically on the # of cars that can currently fit a pin now too. Again, innovation that shoots itself in the foot.
Quoted from nate1981s:Someone make a fake resume and apply for that assembly job. Let’s see if they get a follow up to applying. Can anyone confirm these jobs at deep root are real?
I think that is borderline harassment. Also not necessary
paging dc2010
Have you heard anything back from applying? I wouldn't be surprised if deeproot has them sign a NDA or whatever if they get a job, but I am curious.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Iceman wildly wrong again?
Real news!
The best part is Robert's own language to describe the pre-order folks... "absolve the customers living with the consequences of each's (arguably) risky choices"
Quoted from iceman44:Was his reasoning because of your claim to any Ip of Zidware?
Been a lot of $$$ flushed down the Jpop black hole!
Look he has no clue about business, he just threatens everybody with legal ease and I had my lawyers in the US just wanting to go after him on what he wrote to me but decided it was not even worth a fraction of my mental capacity ..which is not much!
My belief is that Pintasia owned the IP, as a finished game that worked 100% was not produced and it was basically just a box of lights and that is where the discretion would lie with the courts. I was not part of Pintasia by the way which he falsely accused me of breaking some contract and confirmed to me he just makes legal statements without really doing any homework what so ever!
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Too many comments focused on Jpop. John isn't Deeproot's revolutionary pinball visionary. Lawyer and financial advisor Robert J. Mueller is.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Thanks for the belly laugh!
Quoted from Stuieb84:Hi Ben,
What is your craziest story/anecdote of working with Jpop, for context?
Stuart
Easily the talk at MGC, can't recall the year, but when John announced that he and I would be traveling to customer's home to set up their games.
First I'd heard of it. Complete lunacy even before taking into account I already had a very packed schedule because of my show contracts at the time.
The rest of it was mostly sloth and coffee breaks.
Quoted from benheck:If Robert cared about business more than F'ING ART he would have bought out Alien and TBL and used his capital (which he had and they lacked) to build the games!
Games with KNOWN DESIRABILITY and DEMAND. Granted TBL only sold like 275 but that's more than RAZA and it's a real game. Andrew also shipped more Aliens than RAZA sold. DP is still selling new TBL, the demand is there.
But no. Robert went completely cuckoo for John's Coco Puffs and.... Here we are.
That is the complete truth. DR would have been in such a better position if that could have happened
Quoted from wcbrandes:Look he has no clue about business, he just threatens everybody with legal ease and I had my lawyers in the US just wanting to go after him on what he wrote to me but decided it was not even worth a fraction of my mental capacity ..which is not much!
My belief is that Pintasia owned the IP, as a finished game that worked 100% was not produced and it was basically just a box of lights and that is where the discretion would lie with the courts. I was not part of Pintasia by the way which he falsely accused me of breaking some contract and confirmed to me he just makes legal statements without really doing any homework what so ever!
I'm not arguing about his business acumen or lack thereof, certainly in the DR case thus far. And i'm not remotely defending Robert and his actions. Even he would have to agree i would think that the execution has been woeful by them!
He's threatened me a couple of times as well and i had to have a couple of nice conversations with his IP lawyer afterwards 
. I like that guy.
All of the "Goodwill" people could have sued for Breach of Contract and i thought about it when he was being an ass towards me but like you said, it's NOT worth the time, effort or mental capacity to F with it.
I believe they will begin to get games out the door at some point in the not too distant future. When? Who knows. If it never comes then you will have a massive drama story to talk about for years to come. LOL.
There is a HUGE amount of pressure to get something done. Millions of dollars have been spent and are at stake here, along with a slew of jobs and payroll.
I see it as water under the bridge for me. It's not personal. I tend to think of the bigger picture for DR and what it means for the other people that have worked hard to make something happen in spite of POOR/HORRENDOUS business decisions.
I have ZERO sympathy for JPOP or Robert for hiring him. It was a foolish move. And it's been really stupid on Robert's part thus far going down these meaningless legal threat rabbit holes.
I'm hoping he can recover from that foolishness and get a little redemption. If not, i don't think it will affect anybody here to any great degree other than the employees.
Quoted from benheck:Easily the talk at MGC, can't recall the year, but when John announced that he and I would be traveling to customer's home to set up their games.
First I'd heard of it. Complete lunacy even before taking into account I already had a very packed schedule because of my show contracts at the time.
The rest of it was mostly sloth and coffee breaks.
Yeah that was a whopper. It wasn't just like an "unboxing" experience. It was like, we are gonna help build and assemble your game for you on site for an extra fee. WTF!
Anybody can go back to the JPOP thread i started years ago, still might be most posted thread in Pinside history (?), for all the gory details, history, drama and stupid comments made by all. Not something i want to relive however.
JPop was just going to FedEx all the parts to a customers house for Ben to put together while JPop discusses his brilliance to the customer. That’s why there was no factory
Quoted from wcbrandes:Not true! I know two people payed up 5k for a Raza from Jpop that have been denied for no reason by Robert because he writes his own history oh and then re writes it again! Stop defending this guy he is the worst!
Quoted from wcbrandes:This guy is not at all honest and is full of hot air! Mine was one and his reasoning was absolutely a pile of steaming @$#%
Quoted from wcbrandes:Look he has no clue about business, he just threatens everybody with legal ease and I had my lawyers in the US just wanting to go after him on what he wrote to me but decided it was not even worth a fraction of my mental capacity ..which is not much!
I appreciate you posting that, Bill, I really do.
It sounds familiar to how those of us in the Jpop lawsuit were treated. Collectively we all eventually threw our hands up and said screw this guy (Robert). And a lot of our suspicions back then have come true today concerning Deeproot. What a shit show all around.
I wasn't a buyer obviously so didn't have the details. Was John serious about the "in house install" thing? Was it actually a $1000 option?
It's either a joke or John has the business acumen of a 5 year old. Doesn't he have bills, a checkbook etc? Can he MATH?
Quoted from benheck:Was John serious about the "in house install" thing? Was it actually a $1000 option?
Lol, it was! From the original invoice:
11/1/2013 DIY Surcharge (or due on Delivery if earlier) $1,000
"DIY owners will be contacted with special instructions on the delivery and in-house building of their games."
Wait...you mean you aren't planning on coming 
Quoted from benheck:I wasn't a buyer obviously so didn't have the details. Was John serious about the "in house install" thing? Was it actually a $1000 option?
It's either a joke or John has the business acumen of a 5 year old. Doesn't he have bills, a checkbook etc? Can he MATH?
I think the DIY option would’ve been awesome! I was ready on my end with a case of Shasta and a full selection of deli meat for you guys when you showed up at my house to build my game.
Quoted from Concretehardt:I think the DIY option would’ve been awesome! I was ready on my end with a case of Shasta and a full selection of deli meat for you guys when you showed up at my house to build my game.
When I placed my order for BHZA I always thought how strange that DIY option was. I still have the original "welcome packet" from Zidware for my BHZA order here somewhere.
Quoted from Mr68:I ordered the Ben Heck in Bikini option.
That was the low-cost option, right? I'd pay considerably more for the "Ben Heck NOT in Bikini" option.
Quoted from flynnibus:I literally LOL'd at this... because obviously many don't, or just have such high hopes for a game that they're willing to risk burning 7k up just to try.
FOMO
Quoted from benheck:Easily the talk at MGC, can't recall the year, but when John announced that he and I would be traveling to customer's home to set up their games.
First I'd heard of it. Complete lunacy even before taking into account I already had a very packed schedule because of my show contracts at the time.
The rest of it was mostly sloth and coffee breaks.
Figured that would be it...
Quoted from TreyBo69:JPop was just going to FedEx all the parts to a customers house for Ben to put together while JPop discusses his brilliance to the customer. That’s why there was no factory
What if that was the plan this time as well, the team just didnt know it yet? I mean, it doesnt appear that they have a production line!
Quoted from Strohz:Lol, it was! From the original invoice:
11/1/2013 DIY Surcharge (or due on Delivery if earlier) $1,000
"DIY owners will be contacted with special instructions on the delivery and in-house building of their games."
Wait...you mean you aren't planning on coming
Was there an option for an autographed selfie photo with the work crew ? Now THAT is something worth paying for.
That summer/fall before the infamous TBL Expo reveal, which was the beginning of the end for John’s charade, he was contemplating whether to increase the MG to 50 or 60 pins because in his words to me...
“Such a small run of just 25 isn’t feasible to get a quantity discount on parts”. And it started out as 13
I know Bill remembers because both of us were going to put a deposit down on MG before expo. Thankfully he delayed that part before it blew up
He knew he was in trouble when I spoke to him that summer but I’m not sure how bad
He basically had no accounting, records or anything to try and help him at the time
Then Bill came along I think that next spring? I was thankfully going out of the country when he was forming Pintasia?
The most egregious thing in my mind was him continuing to take money on AIW during that time frame, when he knew no game was ever gonna get built unless a white knight came along.
Then came AP. Crash. Then came DR. Hired him anyway
Oh the memories!!! Seems like yesterday Billy
Quoted from iceman44:“Such a small run of just 25 isn’t feasible to get a quantity discount on parts”. And it started out as 13
"Alex, I'll take 'shit people said from the beginning' for $1000'"
We don't need to wait for dumb choices to fail to know they were dumb choices. Kinda like a bunch of the DR decisions... but people keep praying "wait till they fail before you judge". No.. We know why some things are just bad choices and they stay bad... even if somehow they salvage the situation in the end. They pay for the bad choices. But some will still think that's just hatin'...
Quoted from Ferret:That was the low-cost option, right? I'd pay considerably more for the "Ben Heck NOT in Bikini" option.
As would I!
Quoted from hank527:CGC rumored game is Gremlins. It will get made before Raza is my prediction
Gremlins would be a great theme. When I was a kid, I was terrified of the scene where the one goes through the garbage disposal.
Quoted from drfrightner:THREE HUNDRED and TWENTY THREE pages about a pinball company that has NEVER shipped a game EVER! Simply Amazing!
pinside (resized).jpgQuoted from Fulltilt:Catching up to the 487 pages about a company that made lots of models and a box to show off at Expo.
What did you learn?
Quoted from thechakapakuni:What did you learn?
Good things come to those that wait.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Good things come to those that wait.
I suspect you have a lot of good things coming your way then
Quoted from Fulltilt:Good things come to those that wait.
Lol. Those 487 pages have some good comedy in there along with the tragedy!
I’m going over for a car count manana
Quoted from iceman44:Those 487 pages have some good comedy in there along with the tragedy!
pinball_drama (resized).jpgQuoted from thedarkknight77:MARK THIS POST........ROBERT WILL FIRE JPOOP IN 2021.
He may have to fire everyone including himself
I see Texas is lowering those Covid restrictions. No more mask mandate and businesses are able to run at full capacity. This should help speed up things at DR...
Ps- Lol
Quoted from Bruce_Pickle:I see Texas is lowering those Covid restrictions. No more mask mandate and businesses are able to run at full capacity. This should help speed up things at DR...
Ps- Lol
DR can speed up 100 times. 100 times nothing still equals nothing!
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