Nowhere Ridge, TN
Quoted from thechakapakuni:Who would want to buy a pin from this POS Robert Mueller?
Oh that's fresh!
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Can I get that on a t-shirt?
I'd buy one.
Quoted from pookycade:I get the whole fake it before you make it but, but who exactly was he trying to sell this BS to ?
One would assume other investors... trying to hype up a new market and industry shift... get in now!
Key TWIP DR coverage for those playing the quote game at home:
****2017****
TWIP – John Popadiuk is Back — A Conversation with Deeproot Pinball *EXCLUSIVE*
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/twip-john-popadiuk-back-conversation-deeproot-pinball-exclusive/
EXCLUSIVE Interview with deeproot – The Next Misadventure or a Pinball Revolution?
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/exclusive-interview-deeproot-next-misadventure-pinball-revolution/
****2018****
deeproot Pinball: New Home, New Hires, 5 Days of deeproot, EXCLUSIVE Follow Up Interview
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-new-home-new-hires-5-days-deeproot-exclusive-follow-interview/
TWIP – deeproot Podcast Interview, Stern New Hires, JJP Live with Pirates, More
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/twip-deeproot-podcast-interview-stern-new-hires-jjp-live-pirates/
deeproot Update plus Interview – New Hire, New Building, New Creative Studio, New Licenses, and Help Offered to Those Who Lost Money on Pre-Orders from Other Companies
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-update-plus-interview-new-hire-new-building-new-creative-studio-new-licenses-and-help-offered-to-those-who-lost-money-on-pre-orders-from-other-companies/
TWIP EXCLUSIVE — deeproot Tour
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-tour/
deeproot Pinball Launch Postponed
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-launch-postponed/
****2019****
deeproot Pinball Updates and Interview
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-updates-and-interview/
FIRST LOOK: deeproot Pinball’s Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, plus Interviews with John Popadiuk, Steven Bowden, and Robert Mueller
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland-plus-interviews-with-john-popadiuk-steven-bowden-and-robert-mueller/
About that deeproot Tour (Not Insider)
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/not-insider-about-that-deeproot-tour/
****2020****
deeproot Pinball: Platform, Pinbar, PinArmor, Ecosystem, Future Games and Future Plan
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-platform-pinbar-pinarmor-ecosystem-future-games-and-future-plans/
deeproot Pinball: Launch, Orders Open, and Interviews, Stern Led Zeppelin Teasers, Jurassic Park Giveaway, New P3 Game, Rick and Morty Code
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-launches-opens-orders-and-interviews-led-zeppelin-teasers-jurassic-park-giveaway-new-p3-game-rick-and-morty-code-twip-12-7-20/
****2021****
Updates for deeproot, Haggis, Homepin, Punny Factory, Interview with Scott Danesi, Spooky Pinball Podcast Ends, GNR Price Increase, John Borg Trolls
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/updates-for-deeproot-haggis-homepin-punny-factory-interview-with-scott-danesi-spooky-pinball-podcast-ends-gnr-price-increase-john-borg-trolls-twip-2-8-21/
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I'd highlight the funny/embarrassing parts but TWIP already did it in white
[quoted image]
Compare this with a company like American Pinball, which is actually making reasonably-priced pins without any of this blowhard incompetence. And they just hired Nordman, among others. deeproot is the least competent pinball company that hasn't (yet) folded.
Quoted from m00nmuppet:Compare this with a company like American Pinball, which is actually making reasonably-priced pins without any of this blowhard incompetence. And they just hired Nordman, among others. deeproot is the least competent pinball company that hasn't (yet) folded.
If I didn't know any better, I'd think Robert is a monumental dipshit who has no idea what the fuck he's doing!
Vantaa
Quoted from ViperVS:Could it be, that they never intended to produce anything? Just hoped that some competitor (*cough* stern *cough*) would buy their hype train and glorious patents.
Why say your going to produce pinball machines then instead of just working on new designs and trying to sell them to companies that already exist? I believe they have every intention to make a unique machine, which they have with the pinbar and game play that accumulates tickets to purchase modes that further the progression in the game and give the player options to choose the mode. The game could be different every time you play it. The problem is getting it built in mass and then you add customization to each game. If the base game came with all the same stuff, adding a toy here and there or powder coated armor wouldn't be a problem. The different lightening options is like a completely different machine. They're learning as they go along... They just need to make good on getting it done and of course that is where people are skeptical.
It's wild to me the world we live in where 2 people can read those interviews and 1 person will send their money for a non-refundable deposit and the other shakes their head at the whole thing.
Having said that, I learned a $6500 lesson from jpop the hard way of what can happen.
I think they should have changed the quote to: “Pinball is a dysfunctional industry and we thought we could do dysfunction better than anyone else. Our goal at Deeproot is to put the capital D in Dysfunction”
Quoted from frolic:It's wild to me the world we live in where 2 people can read those interviews and 1 person will send their money for a non-refundable deposit and the other shakes their head at the whole thing.
From reading the raza pre-order thread I get the impression that most people are aware of the risks, and took the delivery timeline with a grain of salt.
I don't think there are many that believe everything said by Robert, paid in full and expect their game any minute now.
Some have zidware vouchers and are happy to get anything at all, and most new customers are willing to gamble $500 (paid by cc, so they believe they can get a refund although they signed a contract for their non-refundable deposit). It's a gamble, hoping they get a limited machine someday and it increases in value like MG.
Quoted from ViperVS:Could it be, that they never intended to produce anything? Just hoped that some competitor (*cough* stern *cough*) would buy their hype train and glorious patents.
That was JPOP's vision for zidware... I think RM probably hoped for someone outside the current industry to buy in.
Quoted from frolic:It's wild to me the world we live in where 2 people can read those interviews and 1 person will send their money for a non-refundable deposit ...
... and spend years defending the choice... and lash out at others who don't subscribe to the same limited view of the world.
It's almost like a religion 
Quoted from flynnibus:That was JPOP's vision for zidware... I think RM probably hoped for someone outside the current industry to buy in.
Very possible. Would also explain why they didn't bother with manufacture until the last minute.
This is why it's relevant that JPOP is still in charge. Because instead of using his talents the right way you end up with Zidware 2.0 Sugar Daddy Edition with all of the same dumb ideas, lunacy and broken promises but with Robert as the mouthpiece.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I hope you guys get your games...
LOL! Yeah I hope they get their games too, but come on...
Quoted from pbwizard14:Why say your going to produce pinball machines then instead of just working on new designs and trying to sell them to companies that already exist? I believe they have every intention to make a unique machine, which they have with the pinbar and game play that accumulates tickets to purchase modes that further the progression in the game and give the player options to choose the mode.
Because nobody wants this.
Quoted from Lounge:Because nobody wants this.
They get kudos for sure for trying to do something different. The challenge for any startup, especially one funded by millions in VC is to find a new business model that can 1) generate more than $1 for every $1 put in and 2) scale. And the challenge is to introduce something that nobody even knew they wanted until they suddenly want it. And you get to do that against a backdrop of naysayers who say 1) it will never work or 2) they like everything as it is now. The problem here is that these guys from all appearances lack any semblance of Steve Jobs except for the bravado.
Quoted from flynnibus:That was JPOP's vision for zidware... I think RM probably hoped for someone outside the current industry to buy in.
And really that probably hits the nail on the head here doesn’t it ? I mean why have JPOP and all his baggage unless you believe he is the visionary that Steve Ritchie or Pat Lawlor or Borg or Elwins isn’t. They are all just designers, not innovators like JPOP is. Perhaps the one who really got duped the most here was Robert as he bought into this and assumed all that was lacking was enough cash and his direction to pull it off. I’m sure by now he realizes the folly of much of this and is hurriedly trying to find some stowed away life jackets and an escape pod.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I'd highlight the funny/embarrassing parts but TWIP already did it in white
[quoted image]
Thank you for the opportunity to enjoy RM and DR’s greatest hits! Hilarious trip down memory lane.
*no, I’m not a buyer. Are you nuts?
Quoted from pookycade:And really that probably hits the nail on the head here doesn’t it ? I mean why have JPOP and all his baggage unless you believe he is the visionary that Steve Ritchie or Pat Lawlor or Borg or Elwins isn’t. They are all just designers, not innovators like JPOP is. Perhaps the one who really got duped the most here was Robert as he bought into this and assumed all that was lacking was enough cash and his direction to pull it off. I’m sure by now he realizes the folly of much of this and is hurriedly trying to find some stowed away life jackets and an escape pod.
This is exactly what I think happened and thus why it's relevant to take the "JPOP FACTOR" into account with... Well everything.
Quoted from pookycade:And really that probably hits the nail on the head here doesn’t it ? I mean why have JPOP and all his baggage unless you believe he is the visionary that Steve Ritchie or Pat Lawlor or Borg or Elwins isn’t. They are all just designers, not innovators like JPOP is. Perhaps the one who really got duped the most here was Robert as he bought into this and assumed all that was lacking was enough cash and his direction to pull it off.
This is all interpretation... but my belief is RM thought he could build a disruptor company. Smash the old model... tap new markets... lead with breakthrough new ideas that would breakdown the old mantras of price, market size, the parts mafia, etc. This is what he thought he could lead, and that's what he was pitching and preaching with all his over the top promises. Your goals need to be 1000x bigger to push yourself kinda stuff. Big VC, overnight disruptor, splash not steady kinda launch. Come out with this game changing business plan.. and the investment $$ will back it all and you run as hard as you can until you either make it or burn up. But put on the face that you are that prophet... no matter what. This is how 'game changing' VC backed propositions would run.
And I don't think that vision hinged on JPOP or came from his involvement - just that RM believed that JPOP's involvement could help make the product happen and JPOP had a built in market demand. I mean clearly he was right when it comes to people STILL being willing to throw money at a JPOP design no matter what. But that audience is finite - and a fraction of what he probably believed it to be. I believe RM thought he could lead this business... and the team he picked to come up with product would be able to do what he thought was possible.
While there are plenty of questionable product choices... all the really concerning stuff that was more management and COO kinda stuff I don't see as anyway coming from JPOP. (My belief) RM wasn't just rolling with a hand dealt by JPOP... he was rushing what he thought the business should be and just assuming the product would keep up. Real management would have made the hard choices to drag the product forward... but instead you have misstep after misstep and what appears like a lack of expertise in operations. To go YEARS without fixing those things - those are management issues. And I don't think those were scenarios created by JPOP - because the bravado and company ambitions don't really seem to jive with what we've seen from him previously. Plus, after basically having to crawl under a rock after zidware... do we really think JPOP would have the ego and energy to preach and convert that many people?
Nah... my money is on a business vision from RM - with JPOP just being a component that was wildly overvalued.
despite plenty of money, plenty of staff, and plenty of time, the question to be is, is there anyone in the company that knows how to take a design on paper and turn that into machines coming off the line?
If the answer is no, which it seem to be, then it should come as no surprise that they are where they are.
Düsseldorf
I just drop by for a second, to tell that there is 'actual' updates happening regarding deeproot on funwithbonus.
Just in case there are still people in this thread that are actually interrested in pinball.
The rest, just ignore and troll on. Bye again!
Quoted from spoke:despite plenty of money, plenty of staff, and plenty of time, the question to be is, is there anyone in the company that knows how to take a design on paper and turn that into machines coming off the line?
If the answer is no, which it seem to be, then it should come as no surprise that they are where they are.
They did put a design on paper and produced a game. As for mass producing is another question. I'm in on an Extra. I took the risk knowing full well that it may never be built. But that was my personal decision to do so as with all the other pre-orders purchaser's as well. We all took the risk, whether from Zidware or Deeproot. I personally believe ,unlike Zidware which I ran from when speaking with JPop on the phone, that this will be delivered. I like other depositors, know that there will be delays from the original shipping date. We are in the Covid Era and understand what comes from doing business during it. But I must stress that most in this thread at this point have no skin in the game but continue to put us, that do believe, into some sort of cult. We are educated, hard working, informed consumers and free willing buyers for our desire to own a game from Deeproot. I would also add that before you see them coming off the line, which may take some time, that most of us that have put money into it understand, to give them the chance to do so. If not, egg on our faces on smiles on yours.
Quoted from flynnibus:Nah... my money is on a business vision from RM - with JPOP just being a component that was wildly overvalued.
Is it possible RM wanted John to give his new business some legitimacy? From outside the pinball world, I suspect John looks like an innovative designer who made some well loved Williams games.
Quoted from Jvspin:Is it possible RM wanted John to give his new business some legitimacy? From outside the pinball world, I suspect John looks like an innovative designer who made some well loved Williams games.
Why would anyone outside the pinball world, know who jpop is, or who designed what games at williams?
Quoted from Jvspin:Is it possible RM wanted John to give his new business some legitimacy? From outside the pinball world, I suspect John looks like an innovative designer who made some well loved Williams games.
He hired on a stable of other industry designers with a lot more titles to their name. (Orsler and nordman). Surely RM thought JPop was some unharnessed potential that would excel under his roof - but the point of my post was that I don’t see JPop as the architect of deeproot’s business, marketing, and execution plan.... nor the one that would have been responsible to intervene and take the corrective actions. Imo he is a distraction from the bigger problem - someone who was in over their head.
Edmonton, AB
Quoted from Jvspin:Is it possible RM wanted John to give his new business some legitimacy? From outside the pinball world, I suspect John looks like an innovative designer who made some well loved Williams games.
Yes.
Quoted from underlord:Was reading the preorder thread. They are hating everyone here.
They'll join us back here when it's summer and still no word of delivery.
Quoted from benheck:They'll join us back here when it's summer and still no word of delivery.
I'm guessing Mid-March it'll be:
"Dear customers, due to unforeseen circumstances our shipments are delayed. Texas had an ice storm and shut production down for a week when we lost power, and the ice caused leaks in the roof which ruined some of the 70% BOM parts which now have to be re-ordered. We thank you for your patience while we work through these issues"
They will get antsy when April Fools day comes and goes and nothing has happened except more delay talk and the usual and so forth.
If there is nothing by March, April, May it won't be much of a surprise.
Summer - yeah, Ben is probably right the preorder folks will probably have had their optimism tested by then.
Quoted from underlord:Was reading the preorder thread. They are hating everyone here.
Can't really blame them as some here have unfairly labeled them as being in a cult or having Stockholm syndrome. On the other hand they have labeled all of us as doom cheerleaders to everything pinball and to them personally.
I believe both sides are being unfair and we'd quickly find common ground if we could communicate in person rather than in print.
Nothing is going to change so I say fuck it and lets unleash the bad boy reputation. 
Reading between the lines of the Pre-Order thread, its apparent they have gone into stealth mode about any further Deeproot communication. The pre-order guy that posted the last update got thread mugged for doing so.
Personally I found it transparently manipulative when Deeproot wrote this in the last update.
Quoted from Jarson:I am providing the below update as a matter of goodwill and transparency, knowing that it will be unfortunately posted online or misreported by podcasts (plural), twisted in ways where truth, civility, and rationality go to die.
So unless someone leaks information to Kaneda or to a truthful, civil and rational Pinsider, *cough, mr68, cough* we might not hear much from them.
Quoted from Mr68:Reading between the lines of the Pre-Order thread, its apparent they have gone into stealth mode about any further Deeproot communication. The pre-order guy that posted the last update got thread mugged for doing so.
Personally I found it transparently manipulative when Deeproot wrote this in the last update.So unless someone leaks information to Kaneda or to a truthful, civil and rational Pinsider, *cough, mr68, cough* we might not hear much from them.
Agreed. I really don’t see the fear in being transparent unless they’re lying.
Bear in mind they’re not only trying to assuage the fears of current buyers, but future customers as well.
Isolating people is classic cult like behavior. I’m not trying to accuse anyone of anything, but the pinball community has demonstrated a strong willingness to accept humility in those that admit pinball manufacturing is difficult.
There are some trolls that just want Robert to admit that this was an infinite degree harder to achieve than he envisioned, but plenty of pinheads want to see more viable competition in the industry.
They really need a public relations person to manage these competing wants and needs
as if it's a secret to tell people why their money still hasn't produced anything...sorry but that is classic scam. The less it is talked about the more opportunity they have to draw out the scam. Scammers don't like their scams out in the open for people to collaborate on and figure it out.
"shh don't tell anyone".
A more honest approach is 'we realized we way overesitmated our abilities and it's going to take awhile', but most companies don't like to be that honest.
Edited: misread
Quoted from underlord:Was reading the preorder thread. They are hating everyone here.
Aren't they all busy playing their new RAZA machines?
(Seriously, I don't think anyone WANTS derproot to fail. We just want them to be honest along the way. Makes it hard to root for them when RM is constantly a tool.)
Quoted from RCA1:Aren't they all busy playing their new RAZA machines?
(Seriously, I don't think anyone WANTS derproot to fail. We just want them to be honest along the way. Makes it hard to root for them when RM is constantly a tool.)
Correct.
They blew their chance at the whole "let's support these plucky upstarts!" thing when RM spent years trashing the competition and calling all of us idiots.
“They really need a public relations person to manage these competing wants and needs”
They could’ve had one. And then some.
I’m still curious to see what positions were actually hired for both the pinball side and the ‘studio’ side. Was anyone actually hired for marketing or PR? Content creation outside of pinball animation? I can’t believe they hired professionals considering debacles like the missed reveals, the ‘Deep Six’ reveal, amateur hour social media and even the way RAZA orders went down.
Waiting for the Netflix ‘tell-all’ documentary.
Quoted from flynnibus:Are you confusing deeproot with zidware?
Zidware owing money to Cointaker does not make that Deeproot's debt.
That's why Zidware is trying to declare bankruptcy...
No. RM talked directly to CT and said he would pay for all the assets he had from them.
Quoted from hank527:No. RM talked directly to CT and said he would pay for all the assets he had from them.
Not sure what this is trying to say. “Assets” from who? Assets are not liabilities
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