Quoted from waveman:I think you can mark off "Create FOMO for huge RAZA sales"...
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:You missed the word 'huge'
Classic!
Quoted from waveman:I think you can mark off "Create FOMO for huge RAZA sales"...
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:You missed the word 'huge'
Classic!
Quoted from denoument:Anybody out there really interested to see what cool "ground breaking mech" Barry Oursler is planning to unveil in his Black Hole inspired game? I know I am...
I have a Black Hole project pin that *maybe* I'll work on someday. It would be neat to see a new version of it.
Quoted from mbwalker:I have a Black Hole project pin that *maybe* I'll work on someday. It would be neat to see a new version of it.
The only black hole deeptoot has is the one they are throwing investor money into.
The good news is The Who - which I’m sure they’ve totally locked down an authentic, legal license for - also is supposed to have a “groundbreaking mech!”
Can’t wait for all these new mechs to rock the pinball world. Exciting stuff!
Quoted from denoument:Anybody out there really interested to see what cool "ground breaking mech" Barry Oursler is planning to unveil in his Black Hole inspired game? I know I am. I hope this company does well so I get to see whatever he is planning.
I'm thinking of all the cool ways someone could open a large hole in the playfield to reveal a lower playfield.
A singularity mech?
singularity (resized).JPGQuoted from PoppyCock:Haha, well from what I've heard so far the guys that have asked for refunds have gotten nothing but excuses. Refunds were supposed to be paid out within 30 days and from what I've heard they are way over that period of time. I hope it works out for everyone and for deeproot but this sounds like its getting a little sketchy.
As far as I can tell, no one asked for a refund this last go around. And 18 days ago you didn't know of anybody either when you posted this.
Quoted from PoppyCock:So did all the RAZA Goodwill customers stay in for a machine or did anyone go for the refund this time around? Just wondering if anyone actually received a refund yet from this latest go around??
Please tell us more about these multiple guys that you suddenly know.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:The only black hole deeptoot has is the one they are throwing investor money into.
Despite wanting to see a new Black Hole...I have to admit, that's pretty funny.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The good news is The Who - which I’m sure they’ve totally locked down an authentic, legal license for - also is supposed to have a “groundbreaking mech!”
Can’t wait for all these new mechs to rock the pinball world. Exciting stuff!
They meant, The Hu.
Quoted from Zablon:They meant, The Hu.
No I don’t think so. They absolutely positively meant The Who
2CB88FC8-D8B1-4C67-A729-B76E1FAA172A (resized).jpegQuoted from Mr68:As far as I can tell, no one asked for a refund this last go around. And 18 days ago you didn't know of anybody either when you posted this.
Oh but you are wrong! There are definitely guys who asked for a refund this go around and I did know this 18 days ago. I was only hoping to get some chatter going on here cuz the ones that I know of will not post anything like that here. I have no reason to lie about this. I don't really care if anyone believes this is not but it definitely true. No refunds just excuses unfortunately.
Quoted from PoppyCock:Oh but you are wrong! There are definitely guys who asked for a refund this go around and I did know this 18 days ago. I was only hoping to get some chatter going on here cuz the ones that I know of will not post anything like that here. I have no reason to lie about this. I don't really care if anyone believes this is not but it definitely true. No refunds just excuses unfortunately.
Of course there were no refunds, that was part of the purchase agreement.
Quoted from pbwizard14:Of course there were no refunds, that was part of the purchase agreement.
sir, deeproot offered full refunds back in December to those not interested in waiting for machines. To be paid within 30 days, 30 days has come and gone and no refunds just excuses
Quoted from PoppyCock:sir, deeproot offered full refunds back in December to those not interested in waiting for machines. To be paid within 30 days, 30 days has come and gone and no refunds just excuses
To clarify on his behalf: I believe he's speaking specifically of the goodwill agreement folks; not new money. They were allowed to choose a game or cash.
That said, I have no clue what the timeline was on receiving said cash as I'm not sure that was ever officially made public.
Quoted from PoppyCock:sir, deeproot offered full refunds back in December to those not interested in waiting for machines. To be paid within 30 days, 30 days has come and gone and no refunds just excuses
We must be talking about different things because RAZA was sold during that month and only that month with a no refund deposit. Regardless of when the machine goes out to those who purchased it, I don't get why they limited their sales. They might be communicating with the buyers because the other thread regarding this machine is quiet, but content with the wait.
They limited sales to create FOMO. Robert must have finally realized that John's themes weren't going to sell in the thousands.
Original themes have ZERO chance in a world without shows to play them at (TNA) And yet R&m and GNR2 sells out in a day. THEME. IS. ALL. THAT. MATTERS!
Maybe instead of calling Pinside a sewer these "businesses geniuses" should use it as FREE market research as to what people want.
Remember Robert spent more saving John/Zidware than Stern spent licensing FRIGGING STAR WARS.
Quoted from benheck:They limited sales to create FOMO. Robert must have finally realized that John's themes weren't going to sell in the thousands.
The fomo was easily countered with johns terrible track record for producing games. Now it just seemed desperate at best and as a hoax as worst.
There was no good reason for the preorder move if they were confident beeing able to produce the game and that the game was good enough to compete.
The best the potential recipient can hope for is a very late meh game.
Quoted from benheck:They limited sales to create FOMO. Robert must have finally realized that John's themes weren't going to sell in the thousands.
Original themes have ZERO chance in a world without shows to play them at (TNA) And yet R&m and GNR2 sells out in a day. THEME. IS. ALL. THAT. MATTERS!
Maybe instead of calling Pinside a sewer these "businesses geniuses" should use it as FREE market research as to what people want.
Remember Robert spent more saving John/Zidware than Stern spent licensing FRIGGING STAR WARS.
“A sewer” is one the many degrading terms I’ve heard Robert use regarding Pinsiders. And one of the more mild insults.
Quoted from Scandell:“A sewer” is one the many degrading terms I’ve heard Robert use regarding Pinsiders. And one of the more mild insults.
Makes me wonder what would become possible if the phrase "a sewer" was replaced with "a goldmine"?
Quoted from NoMonkey:To clarify on his behalf: I believe he's speaking specifically of the goodwill agreement folks; not new money. They were allowed to choose a game or cash.
That said, I have no clue what the timeline was on receiving said cash as I'm not sure that was ever officially made public.
The new money is to pay the goodwill folks. Just kidding. I hope DR pulls off putting out some games.
Quoted from Scandell:“A sewer” is one the many degrading terms I’ve heard Robert use regarding Pinsiders. And one of the more mild insults.
The blame placed on the "naysayers" by the people who pre-ordered and DR itself is laughable. If it wasn't for those big meanies on Pinside DR would be killing it!
Quoted from Scandell:“A sewer” is one the many degrading terms I’ve heard Robert use regarding Pinsiders. And one of the more mild insults.
Robert is probably an expert on sewers, consisting how much money he's flushed down the toilet.
Quoted from Scandell:“A sewer” is one the many degrading terms I’ve heard Robert use regarding Pinsiders. And one of the more mild insults.
He apparently isn’t familiar with the term Key Opinion Leader. Unfortunately for him the core audience who was going to buy this machine, or even be aware of its existence were pinsiders. If he had another larger demographic to market to then that would have been super fine to just cast off pinsides opinions as BS. He didn’t. Digging oneself out of this mess is going to be a monumental climb. Lots of mistakes have been made, and their failure to acknowledge or address pretty much any of it publicly or even internally speaks volumes as to what their likelihood of future success is here.
Funny how different companies are run..
Stern: Williams games dimpled too (but somehow the shooter lanes don't look like chopped meat and there's no level difference underneath plastics where the ball never goes)
Zidware: Pinside caused my failure from all the negative comments
Deeproot: Pinside is a sewer
Spooky: Our production manager with a 2 sided piece of paper loaded with quotes, to which he had given copies to everyone in final assembly / play testing. It was full of the constructive and well, just plan angry comments from email and Pinside. They all took it to heart. I'm betting most of your day jobs don't have quite the level of critique that Pinside provides on a daily basis. I couldn't be prouder as an employer of now close to 30 talented people to how our workers reacted.
Quoted from toyotaboy:Funny how different companies are run..
Stern: Williams games dimpled too (but somehow the shooter lanes don't look like chopped meat and there's no level difference underneath plastics where the ball never goes)
Zidware: Pinside caused my failure from all the negative comments
Deeproot: Pinside is a sewer
Spooky: Our production manager with a 2 sided piece of paper loaded with quotes, to which he had given copies to everyone in final assembly / play testing. It was full of the constructive and well, just plan angry comments from email and Pinside. They all took it to heart. I'm betting most of your day jobs don't have quite the level of critique that Pinside provides on a daily basis. I couldn't be prouder as an employer of now close to 30 talented people to how our workers reacted.
I’m a public servant. Pinside is tame AF compared to the average citizen WHo PaYS mY sAlARrY
Quoted from toyotaboy:Funny how different companies are run..
Stern: Williams games dimpled too (but somehow the shooter lanes don't look like chopped meat and there's no level difference underneath plastics where the ball never goes)
Zidware: Pinside caused my failure from all the negative comments
Deeproot: Pinside is a sewer
Spooky: Our production manager with a 2 sided piece of paper loaded with quotes, to which he had given copies to everyone in final assembly / play testing. It was full of the constructive and well, just plan angry comments from email and Pinside. They all took it to heart. I'm betting most of your day jobs don't have quite the level of critique that Pinside provides on a daily basis. I couldn't be prouder as an employer of now close to 30 talented people to how our workers reacted.
True that. We live in a world where most want to believe they are ungodly talented and do a super awesome job. Ground truth is that most don’t do a great job and aren’t that talented. I don’t exempt myself from that ground truth. Companies that embrace this mindset that they need to continuously strive for better actually get better. Companies that don’t either muddle along until someone better knocks them off their perch or they go bankrupt.
Robert should have had special pricing for the month of December and limited sales to that month 1 to1.5K below what the game would sell for once they started shipping. He did say the additional 40 or so machines they are expected to run would be priced at figures nobody will pay. 13.5K for the XTRA I think. Why do that? Once the game starts shipping, raise the price 1K and sell as many as you can in a 1 to 1 1/2 year period. If sales peter out, make an announcement production is ceasing and move to the next game. Isn't that what everybody else does? Don't try to be innovative with making money, there's only one way to do that and that's sell as much of what you're selling as you can...and make it good so everybody wants it. I want them to be successful because there are some titles they have planned that interest me...Goonies and Food Truck are not one of them
Quoted from pbwizard14:Robert should have had special pricing for the month of December and limited sales to that month 1 to1.5K below what the game would sell for once they started shipping.
Yes, but that would would have been a good idea and makes sense. Obviously DR would do the opposite...
Quoted from Scandell:“A sewer” is one the many degrading terms I’ve heard Robert use regarding Pinsiders. And one of the more mild insults.
That's ripe coming from a lawyer.
Quoted from pbwizard14:I want them to be successful because there are some titles they have planned that interest me...Goonies and Food Truck are not one of them
TITLE TBD and Multiplex?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:TITLE TBD and Multiplex?
A working Magic Girl and what everybody else is waiting for; AIW.
Quoted from pbwizard14:A working Magic Girl and what everybody else is waiting for; AIW.
Not paying money back is a huge warning. Owning lots of money to several is another. Good luck to anyone who gave them money with a no warranty game.
Quoted from pbwizard14:Once the game starts shipping, raise the price 1K and sell as many as you can in a 1 to 1 1/2 year period. If sales peter out, make an announcement production is ceasing and move to the next game. Isn't that what everybody else does?
Thats not quite it. You can’t just build stuff to order. Production requires fronting your production and inventory costs. You must order inventory in bulk and with long lead times. This is why you see games ran in scheduled batches of predetermined sizes. The risk comes if you spend all that money and can’t sell them. It takes capital to prime the pumps and float the organization while you trickle out invoices. The smaller you buy things, the more it costs and potentially harder to get.
This is the catch-22 that burns every startup that limps to the start of production without a huge piggy bank. They need volume, but can’t afford to build it it without pre-sales, and without a steady selling product they can’t sustain the pipeline to get the next batch to line up after the first.
No pinball company (besides someone happy to build stuff in a garage..) can sustain themselves just sitting around for a year or two for orders. They have to build, and sell, or are already dying. It is a manufacturing business - not a retail shop.
Quoted from Scandell:“A sewer” is one the many degrading terms I’ve heard Robert use regarding Pinsiders. And one of the more mild insults.
Can’t wait until you can tell us more, Scandell
Quoted from hank527:This company is nothing but a joke. RM owes Cointaker a ton of money as well. I do not trust those who don’t pay their debts.
That a fact?
Do tell...
Quoted from pbwizard14:We must be talking about different things because RAZA was sold during that month and only that month with a no refund deposit.
Yes. Different groups of people.
You are speaking about folks who just ordered games in December from Derproot.
The other discussion is regarding people owed games or money through the goodwill agreement for Zidware customers from YEARS ago.
Quoted from PoppyCock:Haha, well from what I've heard so far the guys that have asked for refunds have gotten nothing but excuses.
I think refunds were pretty much first go round and I do believe everyone that wanted one got one.
Present state of affairs rules that out for the most part.
I thought I'd wait a few days (54 messages) to see if somewhat wasn't happening.
SOS.
"John's themes suck." "Robert spent too much."
This thread was started over 3 years ago and has almost 16,000 posts. Do we have a Deeproot pinball machine delivered yet?
Quoted from thechakapakuni:This thread was started over 3 years ago and has almost 16,000 posts. Do we have a Deeproot pinball machine delivered yet?
2/18 was my first verification and phone call from Robert letting me know my Zidware claim was accepted.
My first payment and "email" with John Pop was 2/12.
Nah, I'm still pretty cool with how things are going. Another 4 or 5 years and we'll be caught up to Zidware's timeline.
What’s your history?
Quoted from denoument:Anybody out there really interested to see what cool "ground breaking mech" Barry Oursler is planning to unveil in his Black Hole inspired game? I know I am. I hope this company does well so I get to see whatever he is planning.
Yes I am, but I'm afraid it will never see the light of day. One can always hope/dream though.
Quoted from woodworker:I'm so close to a BINGO!!!
[quoted image]
Did they officially have the "Five Days of Deep Root" yet?!
If there was a Twipy Award for pinside post of the year , you've got my vote .
Pure gold
Quoted from Fulltilt:I think refunds were pretty much first go round and I do believe everyone that wanted one got one.
Present state of affairs rules that out for the most part.
That's what makes the offer for the second round of refunds concerning. They were offered and so far nothing but excuses, it was supposed to be within 30 days and that has come and gone. Somethings up!
Quoted from PoppyCock:That's what makes the offer for the second round of refunds concerning. They were offered and so far nothing but excuses, it was supposed to be within 30 days and that has come and gone. Somethings up!
You do realize there's a pretty good chance they don't end up making ANY games right?
Quoted from benheck:You do realize there's a pretty good chance they don't end up making ANY games right?
Who needs actual Gameplay when you have INNOVATION?
Quoted from mbwalker:I have a Black Hole project pin that *maybe* I'll work on someday. It would be neat to see a new version of it.
This is one of those games I've always wanted but people warn me that they are hard to maintain and work on. Really fun to play.
Quoted from guitarded:Who needs actual Gameplay when you have INNOVATION?
Who needs actual games to play when you have INNOVATION?
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/319?hl=guitarded and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.