Plainfield, IL
Quoted from NeilMcRae:pinToilet
For pinPoop?
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
Unfortunately bad timing for Deeproot. Launching a game at the same time when JJP a proven pinball manufacturer is selling and producing a massive hit. Let’s face it who doesn’t want GnR!
So, they are struggling to make pinbar, due to low quantity?
If this is going to be a standard part on all their games, why not do a bulk order now?
Cheaper in the long run.
Has anyone received a t-shirt for coming up with quotes about playfields or are they still looking for a vendor that can print t-shirts 
Quoted from BC_Gambit:It's ALMOST like they don't know what they are doing.
That’s John for you. I’m sure Robert regrets hiring him now.
Quoted from hank527:That’s John for you. I’m sure Robert regrets hiring him now.
I can forgive Robert for his initial mistakes .
But to consistently keep making them , like announcing shipping dates when you don't even have a manufacturer for your PIN bar , is mind boggling .
Unknown
Quoted from screaminr:I can forgive Robert for his initial mistakes .
But to consistently keep making them , like announcing shipping dates when you don't even have a manufacturer for your PIN bar , is mind boggling .
Indeed. Unless John is blackmailing RM, RM is to blame as much, if not more, than John P for the strange decissions.
Toronto, ON
Quoted from Shapeshifter:So, they are struggling to make pinbar, due to low quantity?
If this is going to be a standard part on all their games, why not do a bulk order now?
Cheaper in the long run.
Wait? U think there will be FUTURE games????
Düsseldorf
Quoted from screaminr:I can forgive Robert for his initial mistakes .
But to consistently keep making them , like announcing shipping dates when you don't even have a manufacturer for your PIN bar , is mind boggling .
So tell me how you would do it, with the design changing last minute due to feedback and no money left?
These are no „mistakes“, it‘s the inevitable at this point. And at the end „all is well that ends well“...
...let‘s just hope it does.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:So tell me how you would do it, with the design changing last minute due to feedback
Really , anyone posting here is in to pinball and knows what makes it fun .
If for some reason I had to change my design , fair enough .
I wouldn't announce shipping dates , if I didn't know I could actually make the product .
Quoted from Kenz:Unfortunately bad timing for Deeproot. Launching a game at the same time when JJP a proven pinball manufacturer is selling and producing a massive hit. Let’s face it who doesn’t want GnR!
True. That's why I bought both! GNRCE & RAZA Xtra. They'll look gorgeous next to one anther 
Quoted from screaminr:Really , anyone posting here is in to pinball and knows what makes it fun .
If for some reason I had to change my design , fair enough .
I wouldn't announce shipping dates , if I didn't know I could actually make the product .
I know and you are right. Still us is us and a company is a company.
„Here‘s our game plz preorder. You may get it... maybe“ - wont do. 
Quoted from TaTa:True. That's why I bought both! GNRCE & RAZA Xtra. They'll look gorgeous next to one anther
Earth to you. You didn’t buy Raza.
Quoted from screaminr:Has anyone received a t-shirt for coming up with quotes about playfields or are they still looking for a vendor that can print t-shirts
Forgot about that one! Gotta love Robert's commitment to publicly talking shit about how other companies suck at manufacturing pinball games.
If you didn't receive your shirt, I can only assume it's because deeproot didn't receive your quote submission. Emails bounced to the address Robert originally indicated, [email protected], presumably because they had failed to actually set up a corresponding account. You should try again because I'm sure Robert is eager to make good on his promise to you and 49 other winners.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Forgot about that one! Gotta love Robert's commitment to publicly talking shit about how other companies suck at manufacturing pinball games.
If you didn't receive your shirt, I can only assume it's because deeproot didn't receive your quote submission. Emails bounced to the address Robert originally indicated, [email protected], presumably because they had failed to actually set up a corresponding account. You should try again because I'm sure Robert is eager to make good on his promise to you and 49 other winners.
Part suppliers for the shirts have broken their commitments to Robert. Thread count was too low.
I feel like I should have a sliding scale on my offer to take over a preorder. As the ship date continues to slip out, wouldn't the price to get out go down? At what point does it go negative where they pay me to get out?
Actually - as we near the actual ship date the pre-order price goes up commensurate to the then 9k & 13k cost to buy from DR . Better up your game if you want one while it’s cheap .
Quoted from happyclan:I feel like I should have a sliding scale on my offer to take over a preorder. As the ship date continues to slip out, wouldn't the price to get out go down? At what point does it go negative where they pay me to get out?
Machine - Wanted
Wanted: Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Featured!
Wanted! “Looking to take over your pre-order for $1K. Yes, you can roll the dice on DR and hope they make the pin on time and high quality. TO BE CLEAR, I want DR and RAZA to hit it out of...”
22 days ago
San Diego, CA
Wanted
happyclan
I am sure this will help you get one soon.
Oh wait, I have one to sell you and will let you have it for a $7k deposit. I will collect the remainder upon shipping.
Quoted from Scandell:Part suppliers for the shirts have broken their commitments to Robert. Thread count was too low.
The shirts also failed to meet the minimum Pantone required levels of purple.
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:Actually - as we near the actual ship date the pre-order price goes up commensurate to the then 9k & 13k cost to buy from DR . Better up your game if you want one while it’s cheap .
No doubt. It's more of a social experiment at this point because I don't even know what to do with everything changing every day. But when it gets closer to shipping, then I'd rather just get in the line for the retail price of $12,999.99. At least then it's a lock. No hassle.
I'm not trying to troll at all so please do NOT take it that way. I think it's a cool game that has serious execution risks. Were RAZA slapped into a WPC cab and made like a CGC, my god I would be drooling for it. I love the art & sound package. And whoever is doing the animations knows their stuff. Hell, saying positive things might be trolling this thread now!
Quoted from cpr9999:I am sure this will help you get one soon.
Oh wait, I have one to sell you and will let you have it for a $7k deposit. I will collect the remainder upon shipping.
Quoted from happyclan:No doubt. It's more of a social experiment at this point because I don't even know what to do with everything changing every day. But when it gets closer to shipping, then I'd rather just get in the line for the retail price of $12,999.99. At least then it's a lock. No hassle.
I'm not trying to troll at all so please do NOT take it that way. I think it's a cool game that has serious execution risks. Were RAZA slapped into a WPC cab and made like a CGC, my god I would be drooling for it. I love the art & sound package. And whoever is doing the animations knows their stuff. Hell, saying positive things might be trolling this thread now!
Quoted from cpr9999:I am sure this will help you get one soon.
Oh wait, I have one to sell you and will let you have it for a $7k deposit. I will collect the remainder upon shipping.
HA! We are through the looking glass. Love it.
This could go a strange direction. They are going to put a ton of money into manufacturing this machine, so IF they get them out the door, it will be WOZ situation but way crazier. Those machines will, in fact, sell at a likely the deepest discount we've ever seen. So in the short term, they might actually be a winning gamble for the buyers. When DR realize that they can't bleed and more money to manufacture game #2, we'll see the Magic Girl effect take over. There will be no support or parts for the game, particularly the pinbar™, so the game value might tank . . . or not. Will the community react the same way again and again to the Magic Girl effect?
Quoted from Tranquilize:This could go a strange direction. They are going to put a ton of money into manufacturing this machine, so IF they get them out the door, it will be WOZ situation but way crazier. Those machines will, in fact, sell at a likely the deepest discount we've ever seen. So in the short term, they might actually be a winning gamble for the buyers. When DR realize that they can't bleed and more money to manufacture game #2, we'll see the Magic Girl effect take over. There will be no support or parts for the game, particularly the pinbar™, so the game value might tank . . . or not. Will the community react the same way again and again to the Magic Girl effect?
Well the price didn't tank on TBL or Alien...so I think as long as it 'sort of' works and more than 5 people get one, they will be safe.
MG is a unique situation because that game is a work of art...that doesn't work. RAZA isn't nearly as engaging on that front, so if the gameplay sucks...you might be right.
Quoted from cpr9999:I am sure this will help you get one soon.
Oh wait, I have one to sell you and will let you have it for a $7k deposit. I will collect the remainder upon shipping.
I'll go $7.00 even. I'll take the balance of breaking a ten dollar bill and get a few powerball tickets. The tickets probably have a better chance of getting something in return.
Didn't know you preordered one of these. If so, pretty ballsy. Thought we talked about this - maybe you forgot your ordered from another start up ?
I won't preorder anything except maybe take out food - curbside service.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:So tell me how you would do it, with the design changing last minute due to feedback and no money left?
These are no „mistakes“, it‘s the inevitable at this point. And at the end „all is well that ends well“...
...let‘s just hope it does.
Well, you know. Pinball is easy !
Question is why does Deeproot keep slipping.... this far into things.... this last missed call is honestly a bit baffling. How could they take cash, tell people they are going to have their games shortly with this much unknown....it just does not add up... potential explanations:
- They need the cash
- investors losing patience, needed to show progress and show the orders in the pin (don’t think the orders helped here if that is the case)
- they lack proper project mgmt. a good project manager can highlight the unknown, risks, dependencies, etc.... having said this.....you don’t know what you don’t know and rarely do the unknowns make thing easier or go faster.....
- company culture, are people saying what they know, or is the pressure so great inside the challenges are not being surfaced...
- supplier challenges which Robert highlighted... I don’t even want to guess the number of suppliers they are trying to manage, especially with all the innovation.
- any other thoughts?
Time to “find the bottom”.... what is the worst case in the timeline., the cost, etc... ask purchasing, mfg, etc...how long it will take...then ask them how much faster can you get it done (most likely you already have best case..), then ask how much longer could it take.... learn from other examples... what was the longest time it took to get a supplier up and running..... then build in contingency.
Still wishing deeproot the best.... hoping they can get this to market soon.
Someone above mentioned jus moving onto the next game... not sure that would make sense financially....
If they already have 70% of parts on hand, and let’s assume that from a $ perspective they are unique to RAZA, they probably want to ship the game as that costs is all sunk... would need to see some more details to really make a pure financial call there..... lots of reasons to ship this game besides the pure financials.
Quoted from NoQuarters:I'll go $7.00 even. I'll take the balance of breaking a ten dollar bill and get a few powerball tickets. The tickets probably have a better chance of getting something in return.
Didn't know you preordered one of these. If so, pretty ballsy. Thought we talked about this - maybe you forgot your ordered from another start up ?
I won't preorder anything except maybe take out food - curbside service.
Well DR has a pin for you!! Yumm!!
Quoted from ataritoday:Question is why does Deeproot keep slipping.... this far into things.... this last missed call is honestly a bit baffling. How could they take cash, tell people they are going to have their games shortly with this much unknown....it just does not add up... potential explanations:
- They need the cash
- investors losing patience, needed to show progress and show the orders in the pin (don’t think the orders helped here if that is the case)
- they lack proper project mgmt. a good project manager can highlight the unknown, risks, dependencies, etc.... having said this.....you don’t know what you don’t know and rarely do the unknowns make thing easier or go faster.....
- company culture, are people saying what they know, or is the pressure so great inside the challenges are not being surfaced...
- supplier challenges which Robert highlighted... I don’t even want to guess the number of suppliers they are trying to manage, especially with all the innovation.
- any other thoughts?
Time to “find the bottom”.... what is the worst case in the timeline., the cost, etc... ask purchasing, mfg, etc...how long it will take...then ask them how much faster can you get it done (most likely you already have best case..), then ask how much longer could it take.... learn from other examples... what was the longest time it took to get a supplier up and running..... then build in contingency.
Still wishing deeproot the best.... hoping they can get this to market soon.
Someone above mentioned jus moving onto the next game... not sure that would make sense financially....
If they already have 70% of parts on hand, and let’s assume that from a $ perspective they are unique to RAZA, they probably want to ship the game as that costs is all sunk... would need to see some more details to really make a pure financial call there..... lots of reasons to ship this game besides the pure financials.
You are confusing them saying they have 70 percent of the parts ordered with them being on hand.
How can they be so clueless? Simple answer is they are clueless.
Quoted from ufotofu:Yeah, that's really upsetting. Any credible company would never, ever do anything of the sort. I mean, just imagine - taking advantage of consumer goodwill to accept untold hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then failing to deliver products on time. That would, hypothetically, be completely disgusting behavior. In theory.
Classic!
Quoted from benheck:He's including the Goodwill Agreements in the total so new sales are even worse than they appear.
God speed to anyone who put new money into this.
Yea I saw that and realized this is far worse than it appears. I feel for the Goodwill people, but man, if you know any history and still put $$$ in. Well good luck. If this fails, I have some beachfront property to sell. Non refundable deposits of course!
Quoted from NoQuarters:I'll go $7.00 even. I'll take the balance of breaking a ten dollar bill and get a few powerball tickets. The tickets probably have a better chance of getting something in return.
Didn't know you preordered one of these. If so, pretty ballsy. Thought we talked about this - maybe you forgot your ordered from another start up ?
I won't preorder anything except maybe take out food - curbside service.
Yup...dang it wrong thread again...that was PB or was the DP.....not DR!
Quoted from wcbrandes:Can I put a non refundable deposit down on the Who?
Yes. Send to my paypal address: ImaslikelytobuildapinasDR.com.
Full transparency, I dont have the parts, but its sure to be low volume, thus collecible! 2 day order window open soon!
Quoted from ultimategameroom:Is it finally almost time to send a deposit/partial payment for Alice in Wonderland ?
not yet... just the same excuse, time after time.
marchhareAIW.gif
Quoted from TreyBo69:Keep the sharp edges and sell PinGloves™ in a variety of sizes and colorways. Perfect upsale for this pandemic environment
Make sure the gloves are made in China. End to end supplier of all things covid!
Quoted from benheck:It's because the answer to every baffling deeproot decision is "Jpop". It's Zidware 2.0, dialed up to 11
"When Pigs Fly".
Considering the constant of Robert INSISTING that he hire John and "save his games" the smartest move would have been to put all all hands on deck and make AIW from scratch.
Magic Girl and RAZA were ill-conceived. The former came after John once again failed to license David Copperfield, the latter was John trying to flatter me to I guess get my boardset? They're confusing themes that have to be explained to the player.
But everyone knows AIW and it's public domain! A JPOP AIW (with proper management and support behind it, instead of "John is God") would have been AMAZING. You don't have to sell the concept with a stupid comic book or tutorial videos, the buyer can image "a JPOP AIW" in their mind. Let him do the concept, creative direction and then let others actually make it work (like at B/W)
But no. They chose RAZA which probably required so much rework they may as well have started from scratch anyway. It shows a complete lack of awareness about the market, about what titles work and how to sell an original concept. Not to mention it doesn't look like it shoots all that well, the ball spends a lot of time bouncing around and doing nothing.
Unless they have killer games in the pipeline (and no, Food Truck won't sell either) it's not even worth spinning up a line to build 160 units.
Quoted from Roostking:Make sure the gloves are made in China. End to end supplier of all things covid!
Why hasn't China started making knock off pinball games yet?? 
You know, gems like:
The Arengers: Infinity Stone
AR's n' Tulips
Spaceman
Help I'm Trapped in a Child Labor Camp
Quoted from benheck:he ball spends a lot of time bouncing around and doing nothing.
This is like 90% of the games I play.
Quoted from Zablon:Well the price didn't tank on TBL or Alien...so I think as long as it 'sort of' works and more than 5 people get one, they will be safe.
MG is a unique situation because that game is a work of art...that doesn't work. RAZA isn't nearly as engaging on that front, so if the gameplay sucks...you might be right.
You can’t compare a beloved cult classic and one of the greatest sci-fi movie franchises of all time with...RAZA. All we need to know happened last year. At the “launch” when 6 podcasters had to break it to DeepRoot that their game wasn’t ready for prime time.
After how many years?
Quoted from benheck:Considering the constant of Robert INSISTING that he hire John and "save his games" the smartest move would have been to put all all hands on deck and make AIW from scratch.
Magic Girl and RAZA were ill-conceived. The former came after John once again failed to license David Copperfield, the latter was John trying to flatter me to I guess get my boardset? They're confusing themes that have to be explained to the player.
But everyone knows AIW and it's public domain! A JPOP AIW (with proper management and support behind it, instead of "John is God") would have been AMAZING. You don't have to sell the concept with a stupid comic book or tutorial videos, the buyer can image "a JPOP AIW" in their mind. Let him do the concept, creative direction and then let others actually make it work (like at B/W)
But no. They chose RAZA which probably required so much rework they may as well have started from scratch anyway. It shows a complete lack of awareness about the market, about what titles work and how to sell an original concept. Not to mention it doesn't look like it shoots all that well, the ball spends a lot of time bouncing around and doing nothing.
Unless they have killer games in the pipeline (and no, Food Truck won't sell either) it's not even worth spinning up a line to build 160 units.
I distinctly remember receiving the mailing from Zidware which contained the slick Alice in Wonderful solicitation. Upon opening the envelope, these were the thoughts which entered my mind, in order:
1) What a great theme;
2) A reasonably well-executed AIW would likely appeal to a broad range of potential customers;
3) I want one in my line-up;
4) Oh crap! Zidware is cash-poor, announcing AIW, despite having failed to release Magic Girl or BHZA (RAZA);
5) Zidware's days are numbered;
6) I need to obtain a refund immediately of my RAZA deposit or else file suit;
7) Who do I know in Illinois who can serve as local counsel?
8) Damn it.
I agree that AIW has always been the most marketable title and it is indeed perplexing that Deeproot failed to recognize that opportunity.
I rag on this company and their odd decisions. But honestly if they had even halfway pulled off AIW I would have jumped in. I would still jump in now if they made it. Theme is everything especially when placing pins on location. Food Truck just ain’t gonna do it.
I'm STILL not sure I understand the whole RAZA thing! They own the license. They can make as many as they want, no? If it started selling well, why not make more?
Why limit the time to buy? They sold 130. If the game got out there and was good it would sell more. Unless they just want to sweep this whole thing under the rug....
Why release a time line when you don't even have all your shit? And why the hell would you hire a thief? .....there's still so much I don't understand.... 
Quoted from iceman44:I'm down in Port Aransas this week. It'll have to wait until early next week before i can swing by there.
I'll take some pics and post so you guys can let your imagination run wild! Lol
Been very busy.
What's the parking lot looking like ?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:If you didn't receive your shirt, I can only assume it's because deeproot didn't receive your quote submission.
Lol , I never went for a t-shirt , I thought it was another stupid , arrogant move by deep root .
You have to put out a product , before you can brag about it .
The t-shirt thing was a pathetic attempt to troll pinsiders that - like everything deep root - proved to be all show and no go when it turned out their “hammer proof” miracle clear coat was as smooth as a hyper hormonal teenagers’ face.
It was just so deep root. Hype + dumb concept + shit talking = broken promises and nothing getting produced. Novelty t shirts that nobody outside a couple hundred nerds would ever understand are hard.
As we haven’t heard shit about “hammer proof” in months, one can only assume they gave up on that as they try to figure out how to make a lock down bar without drawing blood from players’ palms.
This is what separates real manufacturers from ones that will never actually produce a pinball machine. Companies like stern and JJP have endured countless times more criticism over the years and yet never felt the need to run childish doomed-to-failure contests to troll a tiny portion of their potential customer base. They have other priorities, like making pinball machines and selling them for money.
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