(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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There are 33,560 posts in this topic. You are on page 306 of 672.
#15251 3 years ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

Since there has so far been no evidence of a production line at DR, I figured that octo-manufacturing was various subassemblies farmed out to eight subcontractors. Later changed to quad-manufacturing, with only four subcontractors for the various stages of assembly. And given DR's location in Texas, the main subcontractors are most probably across the border in Mexico for the inexpensive labor.
Just don't try to take any pictures of games being assembled during afternoon siestas.

It'd be interesting if they used maquiladoras to build the games. They must have been sweating bullets during all the NAFTA arguments.

But Mueller has repeatedly said they're doing the core manufacturing on-site. Using subs to make assemblies and such is standard for the industry. They certainly could be getting some of the mechs from down south though instead of all of the normal Chicago connections. I'm sure that's its own hell though after reading about HomePin's Chinese adventures over the years.

-27
#15252 3 years ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

sound bite from an interview introducing dennis nordman as new senior game designer at american pinball :
"the reason i bounce around is because the people ive been with havent been able to produce a pinball game. so i was with deeproot for two years .. i did three really awesome games for them, but i never had an engineer the entire time. i just couldnt make any more progress .. no mechanisms, no anything .. i just got so frustrated .. i just wanted to go some place where i could get a game done."
[quoted image]

The big problem with foam core builders like jpop and Denis Nordman is that they only create half ideas. Why? because they can't build a Meg or playfield on their own.
They only have ideas and need a team to complete a playing Whitewood.
That's Why Stern is so successful.
They have John borg who can complete a Whitewood on his own including megs. Same with George gomez he's the king at Stern for the end designs for al games and megs.
Nordmans games had great themes but layout is not better than Balcers designs.
So I doubt anything changes at AP.
They only need a triple A license.

13
#15253 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

The big problem with foam core builders like jpop and Denis Nordman is that they only create half ideas. Why? because they can't build a Meg or playfield on their own.
They only have ideas and need a team to complete a playing Whitewood.
That's Why Stern is so successful.
They have John borg who can complete a Whitewood on his own including megs. Same with George gomez he's the king at Stern for the end designs for al games and megs.
Nordmans games had great themes but layout is not better than Balcers designs.

This entire post is horse crap, not based in any fact whatsoever.

#15254 3 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

This entire post is horse crap, not based in any fact whatsoever.

Jpop couldn't build a working game alone.
Dennis also, he said himself"there was nobody that can make my megs".

#15255 3 years ago

#spinal clearly needs to use the sarcasm emoji

#15256 3 years ago

Long story short, how more you can do yourself the more a pinball design team can make your vision com true.
Because they see what you want and can make it better and more reliable.

14
#15257 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

The big problem with foam core builders like jpop and Denis Nordman is that they only create half ideas. Why? because they can't build a Meg or playfield on their own.
They only have ideas and need a team to complete a playing Whitewood.
That's Why Stern is so successful.
They have John borg who can complete a Whitewood on his own including megs. Same with George gomez he's the king at Stern for the end designs for al games and megs.
Nordmans games had great themes but layout is not better than Balcers designs.
So I doubt anything changes at AP.
They only need a triple A license.

I'm genuinely curious; What exactly is a 'meg'?

#15258 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

Long story short, how more you can do yourself the more a pinball design team can make your vision com true.
Because they see what you want and can make it better and more reliable.

Pinball designers have always worked with engineers to carry out their vision. The designer gets all the glory, but its the engineers who made the designs and ideas work.

#15259 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It has everything to do with DR. The claim was Deeproot's actions are just the same as every other pinball startup, and flat out wrong claims and rewritten history were cited to try to justify that belief. Like JJP selling WOZ at 'low cost' to drive market share...(RAZA's intro price) or that RAZA is a contract game like Spooky did Jetsons and Dominos... or that AMH was done so people would buy future games..(like RAZA)..
It's spindoctors throwing out non-sense to try to diffuse the bewilderment that is Deeproot's go to market.

Please tell me when your biography of Jack comes out. I'll be the first to purchase it, along with an autograph for sure.

Spindoctoring is exactly all the b.s. you spew. You're not privy to ANYTHING going on in these companies, yet your endless debates do nothing but attempt to illustrate how informed you are, and other's aren't.

Ego. You are 100% logical ego. And that's no fun to discuss things with, because your sense of victory doesn't stem from having an enjoyable conversation and developing a friendship with someone you've never met, your joy results from trying to punish someone via your own sense of funky dominance and insecurity. That is seriously bizarre, and a reason I don't enjoy forum discussion on here. (Are you listening to the message here or does only being right have value to you?)

And yes, semantics. Which was you miscontrusing my statements, and continually using your impressions of what I said against me.

"the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text."

And whoopdeedoo, you had typos in some of your replies. Why would I jump on something like that and wish to correct it?

PM me if you wish to teach me all the pinball history you feel I'm inaccurate about or to forward me the first few chapters of Jack's bio/JJP's history.

#15260 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I'm still super curious when they show off their next game and if it'll be a preorder model. Once the line is going, they'll need to have something to do when RAZAs are out the door. So the next game has to be announced sooner than later, especially if Robert's lofty manufacturing goals are reached (everything built by early summer). It would be a pretty bad look to start soliciting orders for the next game before most people even get a RAZA.

RAZA took years to come out. And per Nordman, and the fact that staffing has been cut so much over the years, it seems pretty clear they don’t have much more than some foam core or possibly protos sitting around. Also, just given that massive list of games on the upcoming list...

This is all SO jpop and zidware, 2.0, with deep pocket backers. He can’t focus on one thing and get it done, and that’s clearly a big enfluence at deep root or Robert is the same way as John. Either way, I’m expecting RAZA building to take up all next year and maybe food truck for sale the late summer or fall after, in 2022, if they keep on chugging fwd.

#15261 3 years ago
Quoted from NoMonkey:

I'm genuinely curious; What exactly is a 'meg'?

Mechanics I mean, meg is dutch.
Sorry.

#15262 3 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

Please tell me when your biography of Jack comes out. I'll be the first to purchase it, along with an autograph for sure.
Spindoctoring is exactly all the b.s. you spew. You're not privy to ANYTHING going on in these companies, yet your endless debates do nothing but attempt to illustrate how informed you are, and other's aren't.
Ego. You are 100% logical ego. And that's no fun to discuss things with, because your sense of victory doesn't stem from having an enjoyable conversation and developing a friendship with someone you've never met, your joy results from trying to punish someone via your own sense of funky dominance and insecurity. That is seriously bizarre, and a reason I don't enjoy forum discussion on here. (Are you listening to the message here or does only being right have value to you?)
And yes, semantics. Which was you miscontrusing my statements, and continually using your impressions of what I said against me.
"the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text."
And whoopdeedoo, you had typos in some of your replies. Why would I jump on something like that and wish to correct it?
PM me if you wish to teach me all the pinball history you feel I'm inaccurate about or to forward me the first few chapters of Jack's bio/JJP's history.

There is nothing related to the fact. It’s only conjecture. It’s about him being right on everything with his ego. You might quit this never ending debate or you might finish in crazy house.

#15263 3 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

You're not privy to ANYTHING going on in these companies, yet your endless debates do nothing but attempt to illustrate how informed you are, and other's aren't.

It's simple public knowledge of the history of events and statements. No 'insight' needed - just references and knowledge.

If you find any of my references wrong - feel free to correct me and I hope to learn more from your help. But I don't see you correcting anything I've said, just resistance to your cites being called out as bogus. And your theories are based on cites that are blatantly wrong, so they really don't carry much value either.

#15264 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

Mechanics I mean, meg is dutch.
Sorry.

Oh, interesting. I've learned something new. Thanks!

20
#15265 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

The big problem with foam core builders like jpop and Denis Nordman is that they only create half ideas. Why? because they can't build a Meg or playfield on their own.
They only have ideas and need a team to complete a playing Whitewood.
That's Why Stern is so successful.
They have John borg who can complete a Whitewood on his own including megs. Same with George gomez he's the king at Stern for the end designs for al games and megs.
Nordmans games had great themes but layout is not better than Balcers designs.
So I doubt anything changes at AP.
They only need a triple A license.

This is insultingly dismissive of Nordman who has been able to launch many successive designs at numerous companies. He clearly knows what he’s doing to have made a 30+ year career of pinball. And to compare him with JPop simply because they use foam core is ridiculous. They all prototype like that!

People excel at different things. Nordman has some awesome games. I’d say Borgs first few are clunky and Gomez still makes the occasional clunker. Yet they’re all great at their jobs for various reasons.

I’m an engineer designer myself. I’m capable of a lot of stuff on my own, but when I’m with a team then I can produce some great results for my clients. It’s a better use of my time to make rough redline sketches and hand them off to my drafter than for me to alter and perfect CAD files so I can focus on more pressing issues.

Teamwork makes the dream work.

Now, I think you’re a capable homebrewer. Surely you can recognize the difference between making a working prototype and something suitable for mass production and high durability.

Anyhow. I’ll agree AP really needs a homerun license. Hot Wheels was like a double. It checks a few boxes but not all.

And back to deep root....them not having enough support staff makes sense of many of their delays and choices

#15266 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

The big problem with foam core builders like jpop and Denis Nordman is that they only create half ideas. Why? because they can't build a Meg or playfield on their own.
They only have ideas and need a team to complete a playing Whitewood.
That's Why Stern is so successful.
They have John borg who can complete a Whitewood on his own including megs. Same with George gomez he's the king at Stern for the end designs for al games and megs.
Nordmans games had great themes but layout is not better than Balcers designs.
So I doubt anything changes at AP.
They only need a triple A license.

Septic Avenger
Copy-20of-20Braunes-20Feuerwerk-206 (resized).jpgCopy-20of-20Braunes-20Feuerwerk-206 (resized).jpg

#15267 3 years ago
Quoted from NoMonkey:

I'm genuinely curious; What exactly is a 'meg'?

It's a really big shark.

#15268 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

The big problem with foam core builders like jpop and Denis Nordman is that they only create half ideas. Why? because they can't build a Meg or playfield on their own.
They only have ideas and need a team to complete a playing Whitewood.
That's Why Stern is so successful.
They have John borg who can complete a Whitewood on his own including megs. Same with George gomez he's the king at Stern for the end designs for al games and megs.
Nordmans games had great themes but layout is not better than Balcers designs.
So I doubt anything changes at AP.
They only need a triple A license.

i guess you never got to visit nordmans personal workshop.

#15269 3 years ago

This thread is so useful?

Here is song that sums it up?
Round and round....

#15270 3 years ago
Quoted from russdx:

Why do people think there is no manufacturing in place? Maybe it’s been setup for 6 months? Just because there are no photos / no ones seen it does not mean it does not exist.
Maybe??

Because, as I have found out, the pinball world is full of some pretty smart people who know a thing or two about finance, manufacturing, engineering and supply chain. Many of those same people have brought up valid questions regarding all of the above. The only thing DR is , is well financed.. All other questions are unanswered. Ill trust the group think on this.

#15271 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Because, as I have found out, the pinball world is full of some pretty smart people who know a thing or two about finance, manufacturing, engineering and supply chain. Many of those same people have brought up valid questions regarding all of the above. The only thing DR is , is well financed.. All other questions are unanswered. Ill trust the group think on this.

You are wise to think all those disciplines (& more) are required for a long-term successful company. That has been debated for 15,000+ posts. We should be discovering what DR lacks or needs to be doing to improve in these areas to improve as a start up. However, half this thread is pitch forks and torches. Can we offer constructive criticism & suggested improvements instead?

What I will also add is DR is a startup that has made several mistakes (from afar for me); but we can list several startups especially in pinball that have done the same.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the coming weeks. If you have some inside information to share that would be great; if you have some pictures of the manufacturing line or vendors lines please do share. This will all help us gauge what is truly going on behind the magic curtain.

-1
#15272 3 years ago

@ cpr9999

There has been at least one very uplifting post. ( If you page back a few pages or look at the picture gallery you will find it )

As far as pitchforks I don't see that, but there is good picture of a shit spreader a few posts above.

#15273 3 years ago

I like Ratt. Maybe Deeproot will make a Ratt pinball. Maybe Jpoop can design it.

-1
#15274 3 years ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

@ cpr9999
There has been at least one very uplifting post. ( If you page back a few pages or look at the picture gallery you will find it )
As far as pitchforks I don't see that, but there is good picture of a shit spreader a few posts above.

LOL - at least the shit spreader was a picture! Now let’s see the DR production line pictures OR hear from some of vendors building parts so we really know what’s going on.....

#15275 3 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

It's a really big shark.

And a solid movie starting Jason Statham and Dwight K Schrute.

MegTheMovie (resized).jpgMegTheMovie (resized).jpg
#15276 3 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

Please tell me when your biography of Jack comes out. I'll be the first to purchase it, along with an autograph for sure.
Spindoctoring is exactly all the b.s. you spew. You're not privy to ANYTHING going on in these companies, yet your endless debates do nothing but attempt to illustrate how informed you are, and other's aren't.
Ego. You are 100% logical ego. And that's no fun to discuss things with, because your sense of victory doesn't stem from having an enjoyable conversation and developing a friendship with someone you've never met, your joy results from trying to punish someone via your own sense of funky dominance and insecurity. That is seriously bizarre, and a reason I don't enjoy forum discussion on here. (Are you listening to the message here or does only being right have value to you?)
And yes, semantics. Which was you miscontrusing my statements, and continually using your impressions of what I said against me.
"the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text."
And whoopdeedoo, you had typos in some of your replies. Why would I jump on something like that and wish to correct it?
PM me if you wish to teach me all the pinball history you feel I'm inaccurate about or to forward me the first few chapters of Jack's bio/JJP's history.

Agreed. Big ego. Other people see it as well. It’s exhausting.

#15277 3 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

Agreed. Big ego. Other people see it as well. It’s exhausting.

Once again, the "ignore" feature is fantastic. Use it.

As for the rest of the shit train detractors, the orders are in and now it's all about getting the games out when they said they would.

Nothing else matters. When they do, they do. If you are getting NOTHING out of this or have no skin in the game then it doesn't matter WTF you think. LOL

Not one bit of whining, bitching, complaining or crying about what you don't like is going to change a single F ing fact of these games coming out the door in the next few months, 3 months?, 4 months? 5 months?...it's coming like it or not.

17
#15278 3 years ago

Do we need another break??

#15279 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Do we need another break??
[quoted image]

Your head is kind of ruining the effect of those monster gorgeous titties Ted but i do love the effort!!!

#15280 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Your head is kind of ruining the effect of those monster gorgeous titties Ted but i do love the effort!!!

I think his head enhances things. As a size perspective, this is one very large human.

#15281 3 years ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

This thread is so useful?
Here is song that sums it up?
Round and round....

Are you saying this thread has a ratt problem?

#15282 3 years ago

Just a reminder to please mark images like that NSFW.

#15283 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

There was a past interview with Robert saying one of his biggest challenges was hiring people to work in San Antonio.
I'm reminded of the stories of when American Pinball started and they brought in Joe Balcer, and how it benefited that he knew so many people in Chicago that he could call on.

Bowen must be loving it. Cost of living is like 100% lower than NYC.

#15284 3 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Bowen must be loving it. Cost of living is like 100% lower than NYC.

Bowen != Bowden
One makes a lot of tutorial videos and does rules for Spooky. One runs Fun With Bonus and does rules for Deeproot.

100% lower would be zero. San Antonio CoL is not zero.

20
#15286 3 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

This is all SO jpop and zidware, 2.0, with deep pocket backers. He can’t focus on one thing and get it done, and that’s clearly a big enfluence at deep root or Robert is the same way as John.

I'll beat the horse until it's an atomized mist. John is still clearly in charge, Dennis outed at least 1/3rd of their games as vaporware and if that doesn't concern you, well, ignorance is bliss.

#15287 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Dennis outed at least 1/3rd of their games as vaporware and if that doesn't concern you, well, ignorance is bliss.

What, you're telling me I can't take that powerpoint pitch deck to the bank?

#15288 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I'll beat the horse until it's an atomized mist. John is still clearly in charge, Dennis outed at least 1/3rd of their games as vaporware and if that doesn't concern you, well, ignorance is bliss.

Its sad to see how these relationships can fall. At one time you considered him "Legendary" when this title was your team effort.

Screen Shot 2021-01-05 at 11.40.08 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-01-05 at 11.40.08 AM (resized).png

#15289 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Its sad to see how these relationships can fall. At one time you considered him "Legendary"!
[quoted image]

THere's an old saying, "don't meet your heroes."

Don't try to work with them either.

#15290 3 years ago

Hey I bore no ill will towards John at the time. Like Dennis I just wanted to "go someplace I could get a game actually made"

But looking back now, all the failed attempts. Dude is a hack fraud. And make no mistake he's running the show.

#15291 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Hey I bore no ill will towards John at the time. Like Dennis I just wanted to "go someplace I could get a game actually made"
But looking back now, all the failed attempts. Dude is a hack fraud. And make no mistake he's running the show.

Ben, for clarity and transparency YOU are the One person on this thread that I Totally understand the anger and dismay from on this project and title. Sincerely this must be a punch to the gut no question and fully understand your anger. I fully respect your creativity and investment in Pinball on all levels, fact. Love it or hate it this Was a percentage of your hard work and imagination so having someone basically resurrect it and possibly make it successful is without question a slap in the face with likely no recognition for your effort. I too was around when at the time the 2 of you were excited and drumming the sale of MG and Raza. Sadly it wasn't meant to be. Would still be honored if you wanted to come to my house to install mine when it arrives..... Just kidding! You Will go on to bigger and better things very soon and I am sure we all look forward to seeing your next creation with a more reliable partner.

#15292 3 years ago

Ben, I would like to back the thoughts of Yelobird. I also can’t wait to see what you do in the future and I expect a future game of yours will deliver the world under glass we all would love to see.

#15293 3 years ago
Quoted from UnholySpectacle:

Ben, I would like to back the thoughts of Yelobird. I also can’t wait to see what you do in the future and I expect a future game of yours will deliver the world under glass we all would love to see.

Agreed. Ben is a talented person. Nothing but respect.

#15294 3 years ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

LOL - at least the shit spreader was a picture! Now let’s see the DR production line pictures OR hear from some of vendors building parts so we really know what’s going on.....

There are none, thats why there is no pics! Thats whats going on...

#15295 3 years ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Are you saying this thread has a ratt problem?

RATT infestation is a mode in FoodTruck(tm)

#15296 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Once again, the "ignore" feature is fantastic. Use it.
As for the rest of the shit train detractors, the orders are in and now it's all about getting the games out when they said they would.
Nothing else matters. When they do, they do. If you are getting NOTHING out of this or have no skin in the game then it doesn't matter WTF you think. LOL
Not one bit of whining, bitching, complaining or crying about what you don't like is going to change a single F ing fact of these games coming out the door in the next few months, 3 months?, 4 months? 5 months?...it's coming like it or not.

Nope I don’t “ignore” people Ice. Not necessary.
This is just my hobby but I also respect the people that make a living off a pinball.
I’m in on a RAZA.
I hope Deep Root, American Pinball, Spooky and others get gigantic! Just means more new titles for everyone.
I understand the risk. It’s one I’m willing to take at this given moment. Time will tell.

#15297 3 years ago

I hardly did anything on BHZA/RAZA. So I don't care about it personally. Many vendors and contractors hurt far more than me.

Hope you all get your games, but I bet it's going to take awhile. (just blame the virus it's the new "dog ate the homework")

#15298 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I'll beat the horse until it's an atomized mist. John is still clearly in charge, Dennis outed at least 1/3rd of their games as vaporware and if that doesn't concern you, well, ignorance is bliss.

But Yukon Yeti!

It was like the only good original idea they had

#15299 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

But Yukon Yeti!
It was like the only good original idea they had

Blasphemy! How dare you besmirch thy holy name of FOOD TRUCK! Our redeemer, who art in Texas. Hallowed be thy food. Thy orders come. Thy food be done. On streets as it is in restaurants. Amen.

I applaud their effort but all of their pitched titles sound like iPhone games. I mean Food Truck would be great, like Tapper meets Pressure Cooking meets Cooking Mama. Not sure how it fits a pin though....

#15300 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Blasphemy! How dare you besmirch thy holy name of FOOD TRUCK! Our redeemer, who art in Texas. Hallowed be thy food. Thy orders come. Thy food be done. On streets as it is in restaurants. Amen.
I applaud their effort but all of their pitched titles sound like iPhone games. I mean Food Truck would be great, like Tapper meets Pressure Cooking meets Cooking Mama. Not sure how it fits a pin though....

Food Truck is Diner 2. Simple.

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