Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from RobT:This is the kind of crap I remember from the marketing idiot at DP (don't recall his name right now). Although a lot of people thought the crap he was spewing was fantastic, he came across as a used car salesman to me. Anything to make a sale.
Robert Mueller, same name as the dude on the collusion thing. Bad name to have!!
Quoted from Mr68:I don't believe Food Truck at $8,000 will strike fear into Stern.
Unless you can order a burrito on FoodTruck(tm) through the pinbar(tm). Game changer!
People dog Foodtruck but I bet it makes more sense to play than RAZA. Fight an alien’s zombie army by riding a roller coaster. Makes perfect sense /s
Quoted from Roostking:My take, they dont even deliver a pin to customers, so all of this is irrelevant. Production is the hard part...
They may get a handful out the door eventually, but with what issues etc ? Don't like it, but my gut says it won't be good.
I do hope though for those who are owed games or those that put down a deposit they get games eventually and without a bunch of trouble or unforeseen developments.
The Deep Root team as of November 30th 2018:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181130144022/http://deeproottech.com:80/
By January 2019 the team had been reduced to this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190101001724/http://deeproottech.com:80/
And Dennis Nordman is still listed on the site, even though he left...
Where'd everybody go?
Quoted from JimWilks:I agree that this type of pricing will fundamentally change the landscape of Deeproot's market. If their "greater value at lesser price" promise is truly broken, then I really wonder where the buyers will come from now?
Deeproot suffers from an identity crisis. They have no idea what they want to be as a pinball company.
Quoted from woodworker:And Dennis Nordman is still listed on the site, even though he left...
https://deeproottech.com/
Where'd everybody go?
Dennis Nordman also left Heighway Pinball when he felt that there was no way that the company could ever deliver on its promised ship dates.
Quoted from woodworker:The Deep Root team as of November 30th 2018:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181130144022/http://deeproottech.com:80/
By January 2019 the team had been reduced to this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190101001724/http://deeproottech.com:80/
And Dennis Nordman is still listed on the site, even though he left...
https://deeproottech.com/
Where'd everybody go?
From over 30 employees to 7?
Is it true that you have the option to pay an extra $1,000 to have the game shipped in a wooded crate. And if you don’t pay for the upgrade they won’t take responsibility on shipping damage??? Not sure if this is true or not but if it is then major Red Flag.
Don't have a good feeling about this.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Excuse me it’s the PinRag™
Scrub-Daddy-close-up-1100x733 (resized).jpgQuoted from jeffgoldstein2:From over 30 employees to 7?
Is it true that you have the option to pay an extra $1,000 to have the game shipped in a wooded crate. And if you don’t pay for the upgrade they won’t take responsibility on shipping damage??? Not sure if this is true or not but if it is then major Red Flag.
Don't have a good feeling about this.
This is utterly hilarious if true. I’ve heard some chatter about this.
If you don’t buy the $950 “pin pod” (tm) they aren’t liable for shipping damage?
If that’s true it’s amazing.
Quoted from TreyBo69:People dog Foodtruck but I bet it makes more sense to play than RAZA. Fight an alien’s zombie army by riding a roller coaster. Makes perfect sense /s
Did you watch Zombieland the movie??
Quoted from Bumper:Only one day left to order your Kia for a Ferrari price...
Today was the last day at 3PM Central. If you want to trash accurately, at least get the date right! 
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:From over 30 employees to 7?
Is it true that you have the option to pay an extra $1,000 to have the game shipped in a wooded crate. And if you don’t pay for the upgrade they won’t take responsibility on shipping damage??? Not sure if this is true or not but if it is then major Red Flag.
Don't have a good feeling about this.
I'd assume that's their base creative staff. There obviously/hopefully should be line workers/etc. in addition.
Quoted from wesman:Today was the last day at 3PM Central. If you want to trash accurately, at least get the date right!
It is indeed "No Longer For Sale."
Continue please to talk amongst yourselves.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:This is utterly hilarious if true. I’ve heard some chatter about this.
If you don’t buy the $950 “pin pod” (tm) they aren’t liable for shipping damage?
If that’s true it’s amazing.
If you think that's bad, you should see how many team member photos are missing from https://deeprootstudios.com/team/
If RM says RAZA will ship end of January or early February, then by golly they will ship for sure at that time. Count on it. Hundred precent.
So excited, only a few more weeks.
Quoted from brucipher:I was just reading the FAQ on the website. Here is one of the items in the FAQ:
"Will there be more RAZA's to buy later on?
We will never make RAZA again. However, we will round up our production lots; meaning there will be a few extra units available after the run. We will sell those for the real price of $8,000 base price for the Arcade Edition, and $13,000 flat fee for the Xtra Edition. Those real prices reflect the market value of the technology and standard components of the machines, and do not reflect the current discounts provided for start up risk and delays in receiving games."
Based on this I assume the "real price" of their future games will be in the 8k range for an Arcade edition. So much for their games being "more for less".
We'll see about that. - To me it's more they could easily Charge more for what's inside the games... if People would trust them.
So now it's: "Either you make the jump or, if you want to play it save, you can play it save! ... for just a couple of thousand bucks more! So better give us your deposits NOW!!! 
And yes if they really intend to build this game they have to have some numbers to work with and calculate the expenses. So for instance buy all parts in charges of 50 and therefore have a fixed pricing for that. So, if there'd be 210 Raza ordered, they could build 250. -> (This is just an EXAMPLE.)
Quoted from jellikit:[quoted image]
Scrub Daddy is actually a daddy. He coaches my teenaged son's ice hockey team and his son is also on the team.
However, the league suspended games earlier this month when a player tested positive for covid19. No scrubbing out the virus, regrettably, until the vaccine distribution improves.
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:From over 30 employees to 7?
Is it true that you have the option to pay an extra $1,000 to have the game shipped in a wooded crate. And if you don’t pay for the upgrade they won’t take responsibility on shipping damage??? Not sure if this is true or not but if it is then major Red Flag.
Don't have a good feeling about this.
Curious, does Stern or JJP claim responsibility or cost for shipping damage? Hmmm don't think so. Seems like a shipping claim issue or at least that was the case with the damage claims I had in the past.
Quoted from Yelobird:Curious, does Stern or JJP claim responsibility or cost for shipping damage? Hmmm don't think so.
Since Stern doesn't sell directly to the end customer, you have to deal with your distributor.
JJP I dunno.
Short:
If the package seems obviously damaged don't accept it, so the insurance of the shipping company can pay for the damage.
I you accept it nontheless,... well I wouldn't help you (not you you, just "you" in general) out either.
Quoted from Yelobird:Curious, does Stern or JJP claim responsibility or cost for shipping damage? Hmmm don't think so. Seems like a shipping claim issue or at least that was the case with the damage claims I had in the past.
Stop being rational Yelo! 
Well, we know neither deal well with playfield damage. That's for sure...
Quoted from wesman:Stop being rational Yelo!
Well, we know neither deal well with playfield damage. That's for sure...
Lol yes they all seem to have issues. While I do appreciate some of the drilling opinion and rational of this thread it does seem at times that some details are Assumed or speculated to an amazing degree or taken Way out of context. I sincerely respect some of the concerns and logic shared in these thousands of posts but it does seem like we are at the "guess we will All just see what happens now" stage. Order desk is now closed. What they (DR) put in Writing now and moving forward is my only concern. What happened with other companies, sorry can't judge this company on those mistakes. How they move from this "for sale" point is ALL I will judge them by, not by assuming but by performance. Time will tell but focused Only forward I believe this will be a valuable new direction for Pinball. I wish them and all that see what they are doing a Successful launch!
Quoted from Yelobird:Lol yes they all seem to have issues. While I do appreciate some of the drilling opinion and rational of this thread it does seem at times that some details are Assumed or speculated to an amazing degree or taken Way out of context. I sincerely respect some of the concerns and logic shared in these thousands of posts but it does seem like we are at the "guess we will All just see what happens now" stage. Order desk is now closed. What they (DR) put in Writing now and moving forward is my only concern. What happened with other companies, sorry can't judge this company on those mistakes. How they move from this "for sale" point is ALL I will judge them by, not by assuming but by performance. Time will tell but focused Only forward I believe this will be a valuable new direction for Pinball. I wish them and all that see what they are doing a Successful launch!
It's certainly a curious study, in the least, of cynicism versus optimism. Or naivete versus hope, depending on your lens.
Robert and JPop's pinball careers will be over, if this is a fail. And I can't fathom a fail of that financial proportion at this point.
One never knows, well...until we do, months from now.
Quoted from Zablon:So where do we place bets on how many get shipped? May as well have fun with it.
I'm a Vegas kind of guy. Can't bet on the Whole but if you want to lay a wager on my purchase investment feel free to shoot me a PM. I feel very confident in my purchase and Receipt of said purchase. I can speculate/assume just like anyone else. Glass half full, let me know.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:If you think that's bad, you should see how many team member photos are missing from https://deeprootstudios.com/team/
Over half of those people no longer work there
Quoted from wesman:It's certainly a curious study, in the least, of cynicism versus optimism. Or naivete versus hope, depending on your lens.
Robert and JPop's pinball careers will be over, if this is a fail. And I can't fathom a fail of that financial proportion at this point.
One never knows, well...until we do, months from now.
Robert’s might be but jpop is the undead pinball designer. He would find a way to crawl back from the grave once again.
I’m still confused by the pedestal that many people seem to put him on just because of a couple games he worked on that others had to take on to get them done? I guess I will never understand.. it does seem like some people are mistakenly attributing art to him though so maybe that’s part of it? I agree that RAZA does got some nice art.
Could def be some interesting bets to be made Zablon — will all buyers get games in 2021? Will any see their game shipped in January? Will none get made? What month will the first ship? Will food truck be shown in 2021? 2023?
My bets are they get made, none ship in January, a few go out by March-April, that they are still way overestimating their production ability and we won’t see a playable food truck in 2021.
Quoted from Roostking:My take, they dont even deliver a pin to customers, so all of this is irrelevant. Production is the hard part...
One more time - production is the hard part.
Dang if I had a $1 every time I heard this I could start my own manufacturing company!
We get it - this is the part that will make DR succeed or fail.
Do you have another angle to advance the discussion?
Quoted from Scandell:Over half of those people no longer work there
Ah, and many who have team photos were already removed from those that remain displayed.
Quoted from cpr9999:Do you have another angle to advance the discussion?
There is nothing more to discuss.
Like Yelobird said, at the moment it's only wait and see...
...and "bitch", of course.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Ah, and many who have team photos were already removed from those that remain displayed.
myself included. Haha
Quoted from wesman:It's certainly a curious study, in the least, of cynicism versus optimism. Or naivete versus hope, depending on your lens.
And often this unshakable optimisim/naivete is exactly what is needed to push through and create success. RM might actually pull this off in the long run. Or he won’t. I really have no idea.
Jeff Bezos early days:
It is far more likely than the following castle project. Two hundred million. A very interesting world we live in.
Quoted from woodworker:The Deep Root team as of November 30th 2018:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181130144022/http://deeproottech.com:80/
By January 2019 the team had been reduced to this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190101001724/http://deeproottech.com:80/
And Dennis Nordman is still listed on the site, even though he left...
https://deeproottech.com/
Where'd everybody go?
Wow, that's some stark comparison from Nov 2018 to Aug 2020 when you see it laid out like that (I took Dennis Nordman out because he's gone, even though they list him):
--------------------------
Nov 2018
--------------------------
MANAGEMENT TEAM
--------------------------
ROBERT MUELLER - PRINCIPAL
CRAIG RUSHFORTH - VP/LEAD ENGINEER
EXCLUSIVE GAME AND AUDIO DESIGN TEAM
--------------------------
JOHN POPADIUK - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DENNIS NORDMAN - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
JON NORRIS - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
BARRY OURSLER - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DAVID THIEL - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST
ELECTRICAL TEAM
--------------------------
MATTHEW BRADSHAW - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
JOSUE CRUZ-LAMBERT - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
JACOB RODRIGUEZ - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
FLOR CASTRO - ELECTRICAL TECH
MECHANICAL TEAM
--------------------------
SEAN GIBSON - SENIOR MECHANICAL ENGINEER
PATRICK FINUCANE - MECHANICAL PROJECT LEAD
JEREMY SANCHEZ - MECHANICAL ENGINEER
DANIEL VELA - MECHANICAL ENGINEER
JUAN SOTELO - MECHANICAL TECH
MANUEL LEAL - MECHANICAL TECH
STEPHEN NEGRETE - MECHANICAL TECH
CHRISTOPHER CABRERA - MECHANICAL TECH
CHARLES NEGRETE - MECHANICAL TECH
IN-HOUSE ART AND STORYBOARDING TEAM
--------------------------
BLAKE ADRIAN - VISUALIZATION ARTIST
ADAM REHMANN - CONCEPT ARTIST
QUINN JOHNSON - SCENARIST, STORYBOARDING, WRITER
STEVEN BOWDEN - RULESET DESIGNER / DEEPROOT AMBASSADOR
UTAH CREATIVE STUDIO
--------------------------
MATTHEW ARMSTRONG - ART DIRECTOR
LANCE MONTGOMERY - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST
NATE ALLISON - TECHNICAL DIRECTOR
ALLEN STEVENSON - ANIMATOR
RYAN BIRD - ANIMATOR
DILLON THOMPSON - CHARACTER MODELLING & ANIMATION
SOFTWARE TEAM
--------------------------
TURNER LOGIC - SOFTWARE
--------------------------
Aug 2020
--------------------------
MANAGEMENT TEAM
--------------------------
ROBERT MUELLER - PRINCIPAL
CRAIG RUSHFORTH - VP/LEAD ENGINEER
EXCLUSIVE GAME AND AUDIO DESIGN TEAM
--------------------------
JOHN POPADIUK - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
JON NORRIS - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
BARRY OURSLER - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DAVID THIEL - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST
I’m not sure how anyone can dismiss the massive staff cuts and still think dr has all the time in the world to make a couple hundred pinball machines and slowly ramp up. Or even if that is still possible.
Quoted from PinMonk:Wow, that's some stark comparison from Nov 2018 to Aug 2020 when you see it laid out like that (I took Dennis Nordman out because he's gone, even though they list him):
--------------------------
Nov 2018
--------------------------
MANAGEMENT TEAM
--------------------------
ROBERT MUELLER - PRINCIPAL
CRAIG RUSHFORTH - VP/LEAD ENGINEER
EXCLUSIVE GAME AND AUDIO DESIGN TEAM
--------------------------
JOHN POPADIUK - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DENNIS NORDMAN - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
JON NORRIS - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
BARRY OURSLER - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DAVID THIEL - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST
ELECTRICAL TEAM
--------------------------
MATTHEW BRADSHAW - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
JOSUE CRUZ-LAMBERT - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
JACOB RODRIGUEZ - ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
FLOR CASTRO - ELECTRICAL TECH
MECHANICAL TEAM
--------------------------
SEAN GIBSON - SENIOR MECHANICAL ENGINEER
PATRICK FINUCANE - MECHANICAL PROJECT LEAD
JEREMY SANCHEZ - MECHANICAL ENGINEER
DANIEL VELA - MECHANICAL ENGINEER
JUAN SOTELO - MECHANICAL TECH
MANUEL LEAL - MECHANICAL TECH
STEPHEN NEGRETE - MECHANICAL TECH
CHRISTOPHER CABRERA - MECHANICAL TECH
CHARLES NEGRETE - MECHANICAL TECH
IN-HOUSE ART AND STORYBOARDING TEAM
--------------------------
BLAKE ADRIAN - VISUALIZATION ARTIST
ADAM REHMANN - CONCEPT ARTIST
QUINN JOHNSON - SCENARIST, STORYBOARDING, WRITER
STEVEN BOWDEN - RULESET DESIGNER / DEEPROOT AMBASSADOR
UTAH CREATIVE STUDIO
--------------------------
MATTHEW ARMSTRONG - ART DIRECTOR
LANCE MONTGOMERY - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST
NATE ALLISON - TECHNICAL DIRECTOR
ALLEN STEVENSON - ANIMATOR
RYAN BIRD - ANIMATOR
DILLON THOMPSON - CHARACTER MODELLING & ANIMATION
SOFTWARE TEAM
--------------------------
TURNER LOGIC - SOFTWARE
--------------------------
Aug 2020
--------------------------
MANAGEMENT TEAM
--------------------------
ROBERT MUELLER - PRINCIPAL
CRAIG RUSHFORTH - VP/LEAD ENGINEER
EXCLUSIVE GAME AND AUDIO DESIGN TEAM
--------------------------
JOHN POPADIUK - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
JON NORRIS - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
BARRY OURSLER - EXCLUSIVE GAME DESIGNER
DAVID THIEL - PINBALL AUDIO ARTIST
Ok the list have changed for sure. How do you guys know those guys have been laid out? Did you ask them or do you know the current team out there?
It’s still speculation. It’s not because one known person in here have left than there was no turnover.
I’ve changed companies, and people are getting fired. We don’t know the details... only one side version can be talked in here anyway.
Quoted from Yelobird:Curious, does Stern or JJP claim responsibility or cost for shipping damage? Hmmm don't think so. Seems like a shipping claim issue or at least that was the case with the damage claims I had in the past.
I think the question is whether Stern, JJP and/or the distributor pays for full coverage on the shipment and if DR is saying they don't unless you order the pinpod. When I ship things, I am always asked about the value. Heck when you go to the post office, they will ask you if you want to pay for extra coverage. So yes, you file with the shipper but if it wasn't fully insured, they won't cover the full cost. That seems to be the concern here.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess less than 5 games out by end of January.
Lead times for parts are crazy right now. In January They will only be able to build machines they already have parts for.
Quoted from Scandell:Over half of those people no longer work there
If half those people are gone, then they've reduced down from 43 to 9 or less people.
www.web.archive.org/web/20190805104222/http://deeprootstudios.com:80/team/
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I'm gonna go ahead and guess less than 5 games out by end of January.
Lead times for parts are crazy right now. In January They will only be able to build machines they already have parts for.
I'd guess similar, but say end of February if it happens. If they can do it, I think it takes a couple months to build first small handful of games.
Would not be surprised in the least after 30-60 days nothing happens and then they "revise" their production schedule.
Quoted from iceman44:It’s not a hustle. They either make it or they don’t.
Gerry recruited some investors. These guys raised well over $30 million dollars
I am rooting for deeproot, but those numbers are scary. If they make 50 machines per week (JJP numbers), and make $2000 per machine, if they are paying 6% to their initial investors it would take them almost 20 years to break even.
Let's say Deeproot is invested in this all at $30,000,000. How much "profit" do they need to make on a machine? Let's say for the purpose of math (and making it easier to alter later) it is $1,000. That means that in order for Deeproot to break even, they would need to make ($30,000,000/$1,000) 30,000 machines just to break even. Let's step that up further and say that they reach the rumored manufacturing capacity of Jersey Jack Pinball of 50 machines per week. This would imply that (30,000/50) 600 weeks or 11.5 years were needed just to break even. If you want to say they make $2,000 per machine that makes 5.75 years or $3,000 per machine makes almost 4 years just to break even. But wait! Deeproot must be paying their investors some sort of rate of return. 11.5 years at $1,000 per machine and Deeproot promised... say a 6% return on investment once production started, then they would owe investors almost $60 million after 11.5 years, not $30 million. In fact, if you include interest of 6% on Deeptroot initial startup money at $30,000,000, produce at the rate of Jersey Jack (50 per week), Deeproot would never be able to eliminate its startup debt. At $2,000 markup per machine it would take them ALMOST 20 YEARS to eliminate startup debt.
Please note I have no insider knowledge of Deeproot and am pulling the numbers for debt repayment based off of online calculators. My math may or may not be right but from my purely mathematical analysis I do not see this company making it long term. With that said I am rooting for them.
Quoted from benheck:Ya'll do realize that quad & octo manufacturing were never really a thing right? Just more "bullshit JPOP words" to slap on a flyer like "Quickstep solenoids"
"Quickstep Solenoids" could be this generation's "Green Apple Quickstep"?
Quoted from spinal:If RM says RAZA will ship end of January or early February, then by golly they will ship for sure at that time. Count on it. Hundred precent.
So excited, only a few more weeks.
Yeah because everything that has come out of RM's mouth has been 100% accurate 
Quoted from pinlink:Yeah because everything that has come out of RM's mouth has been 100% accurate
Always subject to change.
Quoted from TaTa:Blah blah blah. Blah BLAH blah blah blah BLAH! Blah blah blah BLAH blah BLAH.
Cogent point taken, you clever wordsmith. You'll probably get numerous up-votes for it.
Because what normal red-blooded guy would cast a down vote against Ta-Tas?
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