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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 43 hours ago by benheck
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#14601 3 years ago
 
TGH

greenhornet

Pinside member

US Menifee, CA

6y 71,050 1,669

Quoted from Mercifull:

Im excited to see some of Ourslers work... is no one else?

people were ... nearly five years ago.

Quoted from rubberducks:

- Barry Oursler (who didn't work on Full Throttle or Alien) has finished his design work on games 3 & 4 already, and wants to move on to game 5 now. He apparently works incredibly quickly according to Andrew - going from start to finish in 3-4 months.

additional tidbits from that post referenced heighways 42,000 sq ft facility, build capacity in excess of 3500 machines per year, expectations of 4 titles in production by years end and 8 by end of 2017, as well as assembling games in 6 to 8 hours.

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#14602 3 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,102 2

Again, deeproots resumee is bad enough that you don't have to make shit up...

Quoted from BallPin:

They couldn't even do a reveal properly on a machine that has been in the works for over 8 years, yet, somehow they are going to figure out manufacturing in a month or so.

"Or so" is actually 3 months.

Quoted from BallPin:

They touted some new playfield tech that could take a hammer, and people that saw it said the playfield was horrible, almost unplayable.

Srsly, NOONE EVER SAID THAT!

The harshest comment was that it had a slight orange peel look that didn't affect gameplay.

Quoted from BallPin:

BUT, here is the BIGGEST issue people are overseeing. Deeproot already created a manufacturing nightmare by making machine a la carte. The logistics is bottlenecking the manufacturing process before it even begins. Giving all these options on machines is such a bad idea, which you can add to the pile of bad ideas that this company has come up with.

I actually worked in automotive development and planned the model variations with sales projections and as long as the machines are built to order (and in small numbers) it's no problem at all, especially if you look what they're offering. Aside from the "toys" or "blue trim" nothing is special that can't be used on other machines.
I addition I might remind you that American Pinball started with customization Options as well. Spooky also does.
(And Spooky forgot my Art Blades and Plastic Protectors in TNA but guess what: They sent them to me.)

As long as it's built to order, small numbers and no retailers THIS is not the biggest issue...

Quoted from BallPin:

This will be my final piece on Deeproot.

Thank god.

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#14603 3 years ago
 
TMB

Roostking

Pinside+ Addict

10y 106K 8,561 2

Is it just me, or are the North Americans very skeptical, and provide reasons for the skepticism, yet most Europeans don't seem to see a problem, yet can't provide a reason for the lack of skepticism. Wierd.

Good luck buyers!

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#14604 3 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,208

Quoted from mbwalker:

Can I hand it off to some stranger that just walked in from the street and have them build it? Not a chance

stern’s mechanical engineer said during of of the marco TV interviews... if you aren’t envisioning and designing for how its going to be built in the factory when designs the mech... you don’t deserve to be in the job.

this is a big part of the delta between a homebrew and a game built to be produced. Its not just documentation... but part of the design to consider how its built, what its built from, etc

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#14605 3 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,208

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Srsly, NOONE EVER SAID THAT!
The harshest comment was that it had a slight orange peel look that didn't affect gameplay.

Watch cary’s video after his nda release... he uses terms like lumpy... and says you could hear the ball chattering as it rolled

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#14606 3 years ago
 
TOM

Tomass

Pinside member

US Wasilla, AK

6y 98,350 3,830 17

Dang, I thought this thread was bad....that LZ thread is brutal.

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#14607 3 years ago
 
MBW

mbwalker

Pinside+ Frequent

7y 135K 5,321 9

Quoted from flynnibus:

stern’s mechanical engineer said during of of the marco TV interviews... if you aren’t envisioning and designing for how its going to be built in the factory when designs the mech... you don’t deserve to be in the job.
this is a big part of the delta between a homebrew and a game built to be produced. Its not just documentation... but part of the design to consider how its built, what its built from, etc

Yes - envisioning production is a lot of work.

I think you indirectly hit upon what RAZA is likely going to be: basically a homebrew, given the low production qty. And Mbecker is likely right...the eng staff will build them (all in the lab). Hence, why there's no production floor pictures or details. Almost like when Dutch starting building TBL again - 3 or 4 guys piecing together a pin.

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#14608 3 years ago
 
SCC

mrgone

Pinside member

US Casper, WY

12y 119K 5,180 4 54

Quoted from Tomass:

Dang, I thought this thread was bad....that LZ thread is brutal.

Yeah, it’s like thunder dome over there.

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#14609 3 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,102 2

Quoted from mrgone:

Yeah, it’s like thunder dome over there.

I wouldn't go there.

"If you have nothing nice to say, better say nothing at all."

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#14610 3 years ago
 
BRC

jellikit

Pinside member

US Plainfield, IL

11y 106K 4,453 6

Quoted from mrgone:

Yeah, it’s like thunder dome over there.

giphy (7).gifgiphy (7).gif
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#14611 3 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

"If you have nothing nice to say, better say nothing at all."

Pinside would collapse in on itself.

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#14612 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

"If you have nothing nice to say, better say nothing at all."

Says the guy that just finished ripping into me for questioning my facts with his opinion.

That's BoNkErS!

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#14613 3 years ago
 
ODZ

davjoszie

Pinside member

US Kansas City, MO

11y 41,550 452 4

Quoted from mbwalker:

Yes - envisioning production is a lot of work.
I think you indirectly hit upon what RAZA is likely going to be: basically a homebrew, given the low production qty. And Mbecker is likely right...the eng staff will build them (all in the lab). Hence, why there's no production floor pictures or details. Almost like when Dutch starting building TBL again - 3 or 4 guys piecing together a pin.

Is 4 guys piecing together a few pins QUAD manufacturing?

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#14614 3 years ago
 
PAY

pookycade

Pinside member

11y 95,300 1,836

Quoted from mbwalker:

I think you nailed it on #2 (nope on #1).
I design RF things with lots of parts and hard specs. But I can build one up in the lab with my eyes almost closed using a grungy schematic I penciled by hand because it's ingrained in my brain and I suffered thru the design, from start to finish. Can I hand it off to some stranger that just walked in from the street and have them build it? Not a chance. So I think your comment about the designers building the game is spot on. They know how to put it together, as long as they have the parts. Saves a ton of money on assembly drawings/instructions too.
Pinball is hard, production is harder.

THIS ^. You can’t have an assembly line until you actually have engineers put the first 20 together. Too many problems to work out on assembly. If they get 200 orders it’s gonna be tough to fulfill those in any reasonable time. You can iterate your way to a real assembly line not staffed entirely by engineers but it’s a tough slog to get there

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#14615 3 years ago
 
MBW

mbwalker

Pinside+ Frequent

7y 135K 5,321 9

Quoted from davjoszie:

Is 4 guys piecing together a few pins QUAD manufacturing?

Ha, Touche! Didn't think about that. 3 guys?: No, 4 guys?: Yep!

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#14616 3 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

In on a RAZA Arcade Edition...order #100087!

I’m definitely excited but at the same time I’m not naive and fully understand and accept the risks involved with supporting them. I exchanged a few more emails with deeproot and feel comfortable with my decision to go with the 10% deposit option. I’m hoping it all works out...time will tell!

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#14617 3 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,420

Quoted from wrb1977:

In on a RAZA Arcade Edition...order #100087!
I’m definitely excited but at the same time I’m not naive and fully understand and accept the risks involved with supporting them. I exchanged a few more emails with deeproot and feel comfortable with my decision to go with the 10% deposit option. I’m hoping it all works out...time will tell!

I look forward to your unboxing update.

Did he give you an ETA? Did you get the nicer ones that get built first? Hope you get a fun game by summer time!

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#14618 3 years ago
 
JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from wrb1977:

In on a RAZA Arcade Edition...order #100087!
I’m definitely excited but at the same time I’m not naive and fully understand and accept the risks involved with supporting them. I exchanged a few more emails with deeproot and feel comfortable with my decision to go with the 10% deposit option. I’m hoping it all works out...time will tell!

I wonder if your order number means 87 people ordered?

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#14619 3 years ago
 
JMM

NoMonkey

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 66,800 371 17

Quoted from wrb1977:

In on a RAZA Arcade Edition...order #100087!
I’m definitely excited but at the same time I’m not naive and fully understand and accept the risks involved with supporting them. I exchanged a few more emails with deeproot and feel comfortable with my decision to go with the 10% deposit option. I’m hoping it all works out...time will tell!

Congrats! Be sure to head over to the pre-order club! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/raza-pre-order-club

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#14620 3 years ago
 
SAC

Scandell

Pinside member

US Salt Lake City, UT

4y 66,300 588 9 10

Let’s say there are 87 orders in.
Average price....7k.
20% down deposits?

Total:
$120k accumulated? Is that correct?

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#14621 3 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,102 2

Quoted from BallPin:

Says the guy that just finished ripping into me for questioning my facts with his opinion.
That's BoNkErS!

Your "invented" facts (lies) are neither a fact nor an opinion.

If you want to proof my "opinion" wrong, that'd be easy. Please explain how 9 (September)+1=12 (December).
Or show where anyone of the "deep six" said/ wrote the orange peel playfield was unplayable (because of the orange peel/ quality and NOT because other stuff completely out of context).

Pinsiders did. You did. And just as in your show you repeat assumed things so often that you accept them as a fact and forget you made them up all by yourself.

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#14622 3 years ago
 
MJS

Mercifull

Inactive member

GB Frome

5y 20,050 59 1

Quoted from Tranquilize:

LOL. I found something I agree with in your post. They should be compared to magicians!.

They take your money and make it disappear?

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#14623 3 years ago
 
???

pinballwil

Inactive member

9y 63,050 1,370

When Raza is deliverd next year (and sales are closed) sundenly everybody wants one just like JJP POTC.
So if you order one and let it stay NIB you can make some profit next year.

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#14624 3 years ago
 
EWG

kermit24

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 123K 6,537

Quoted from pinballwil:

When Raza is deliverd next year (and sales are closed) sundenly everybody wants one just like JJP POTC.
So if you order one and let it stay NIB you can make some profit next year.

Yes, at this rate I don’t see them exceeding 200 total orders before the end of the year.

But do they explicitly say that this is the only time this game will be available to order? Apart from the Xtra(tm) being limited to 300, I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t rerun arcade edition if there is demand. I know they say they won’t come back to it because of all the other titles but I didn’t see any assurances that this is the only time it can be ordered.

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#14625 3 years ago
 
PAY

pookycade

Pinside member

11y 95,300 1,836

Quoted from Mercifull:

They take your money and make it disappear?

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#14626 3 years ago
 
???

pinballwil

Inactive member

9y 63,050 1,370

It's always possible for a small run later.
But parts for a small run are more expensive.
That's Why they don't rerun Raza, it's cheaper to run a new game in higher quantity.
So Raza will be the most collectable game from Deeproot in the future.Take my words.

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#14627 3 years ago
 
JGW

JimWilks

Pinside member

CA Carlisle, ON

11y 66,300 227 55

A friend mentioned that I had missed a lot in the Deeproot story, so I decided to get caught up on it.

I read all of the Pinside posts for the last 90 days and watched all of the videos and listened to all of the podcasts. Approx 30+ hours of content later and I still can't believe this is all for real.

Anyway, it's all very entertaining.

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#14628 3 years ago
 
JH

NoQuarters

Pinside+ Frequent

8y 124K 3,002 13 2

Quoted from wrb1977:

In on a RAZA Arcade Edition...order #100087!
I’m definitely excited but at the same time I’m not naive and fully understand and accept the risks involved with supporting them. I exchanged a few more emails with deeproot and feel comfortable with my decision to go with the 10% deposit option. I’m hoping it all works out...time will tell!

Best of Luck - Really. Hope it turns out well for you.

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#14629 3 years ago
 
BEN

noitbe1

Pinside member

FR Paris

11y 111K 1,937 4 11

Quoted from pinballwil:

So Raza will be the most collectable game from Deeproot in the future.Take my words.

+1

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#14630 3 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

Quoted from Scandell:

Let’s say there are 87 orders in.
Average price....7k.
20% down deposits?
Total:
$120k accumulated? Is that correct?

10% down for the Arcade model and 20% down for the Xtra. Also, Deeproot offered those paying in full to jump to the head of the line. Two Xtra Edition machines confirmed so far as paying in full.
Additionally, I would assume that some of the numbered orders belong to the Goodwill people at zero deposit.

Your guess is as good as any but whatever the number is, it really amounts to peanuts in the scheme of things.

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#14631 3 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

Quoted from pinballwil:

So Raza will be the most collectable game from Deeproot in the future.Take my words.

Cosmic Carnival is the most collectable game from Suncoast Pinball.

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#14632 3 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Quoted from TreyBo69:

I look forward to your unboxing update.
Did he give you an ETA? Did you get the nicer ones that get built first? Hope you get a fun game by summer time!

Thanks...me too! I ordered a base Ae with zero options. Since I did the 10% deposit (paid $589.90), I will be in the last group of the US customers to receive my game. I chose this route for a variety of reasons including wanting to be later in the production run. My understanding is that the first RAZAs are to ship 4-6 weeks after orders close.

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#14633 3 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Quoted from cpr9999:

I wonder if your order number means 87 people ordered?

That would be my guess as well.

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#14634 3 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Quoted from Scandell:

Let’s say there are 87 orders in.
Average price....7k.
20% down deposits?
Total:
$120k accumulated? Is that correct?

No, and it’s irrelevant as the point of the small deposit is to get buyer commitment and not to fund production.

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#14635 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Your "invented" facts (lies) are neither a fact nor an opinion.
If you want to proof my "opinion" wrong, that'd be easy. Please explain how 9 (September)+1=12 (December).
Or show where anyone of the "deep six" said/ wrote the orange peel playfield was unplayable (because of the orange peel/ quality and NOT because other stuff completely out of context).
Pinsiders did. You did. And just as in your show you repeat assumed things so often that you accept them as a fact and forget you made them up all by yourself.

From the deep six's mouth to your ears! Skip to the 5:15 mark.

I also don't have a show. It's getting really weird at pinside, where everyone that's a jerk to me, also thinks I have a podcast. I do not. I have no time for that, nor would I ever want to have a podcast.

Also I don't understand your month calculation...are you questioning me saying they need to figure out manfacturing in a month or so? Ok...let me explain. It's currently December, they are promising machines in February. That's a month...or so. They should be manufacturing now, or next month if they want to ship a machine by FEB.

You somehow believe I'm Kaneda, even though I've constantly said I'm not him...fact...that's not an opinion, I would know if I was him because...I'm not him. But yet, you have a hard time believing actual facts presented. No fact has been presented that I'm Kaneda...yet you easily believe that I am. I give you references, testimonials from people that were there, company history...and I'm making up "facts" and "opinons". I'm at a point in my life where when facts can't win arguments, you just walk away. I walked away from this thread saying "this was my last piece on Deeproot", but I just had to answer you because of the whole podcaster thing, it's insane!

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#14636 3 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Quoted from NoQuarters:

Best of Luck - Really. Hope it turns out well for you.

Thanks man!

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#14637 3 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Quoted from BallPin:

From the deep six's mouth to your ears! Skip to the 5:15 mark.
I also don't have a show. It's getting really weird at pinside, where everyone that's a jerk to me, also thinks I have a podcast. I do not. I have no time for that, nor would I ever want to have a podcast.

I REALLY wish you would have kept your word from your earlier post where you said that it would be your final piece on deeproot.

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#14638 3 years ago
 
???

pinlink

Pinside member

Unknown

8y 72,150 2,205

Yeah it's just a deposit...for now! Guaranteed they will be asking you to pay in full before your game is built. This is like deja vu...again.

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#14639 3 years ago
 
???

pinballwil

Inactive member

9y 63,050 1,370

Quoted from Mr68:

Cosmic Carnival is the most collectable game from Suncoast Pinball.

Yeah but that thing looks like a homebrew game.
Deeproot is more like wms.

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#14640 3 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

Quoted from NoMonkey:

Congrats! Be sure to head over to the pre-order club! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/raza-pre-order-club

Thanks...will do!

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#14641 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from wrb1977:

I REALLY wish you would have kept your word from your earlier post where you said that it would be your final piece on deeproot.

I did! I never made another post about them. I'm just replying to people calling me a liar and assuming I'm a podcaster. I think that's fair.

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#14642 3 years ago
 
JAM

Wolfmarsh

Pinside member

12y 134K 10,956

Quoted from pinballwil:

Yeah but that thing looks like a homebrew game.
Deeproot is more like wms.

What drugs are you on? Deeproot being like Williams is the funniest thing I'll hear this week.

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#14643 3 years ago
 
MEO

beergut666

Pinside member

US Minneapolis, MN

6y 122K 1,472 3 53

Quoted from BallPin:

It's getting really weird at pinside, where everyone that's a jerk to me

Sorry your fee fees are hurt, maybe try not running your mouth so much.

4qqm2a (resized).jpg4qqm2a (resized).jpg
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#14644 3 years ago
 
LMS

Tranquilize

Pinside member

9y 84,550 3,778 35

Quoted from pinballwil:

Yeah but that thing looks like a homebrew game.
Deeproot is more like wms.

Lol. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Do you mean like a system 11? That Ferris wheel is sooooo awesome!

The game lacks good gameplay, just like cosmic Carnival. The pinbar might help, but DLC, if mandatory, will kill that. Plus you might not even get a game.

It's a dumb risk, but like all dumb risks, it could pay off. If the game played better, I'd consider the dumb risk because I'd at least like playing it if I actually recieved it.

Like everything on pinside, it will be fun for me to laugh at you if you get burned and fun for you to gloat if you don't.

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#14645 3 years ago
 
LMS

Tranquilize

Pinside member

9y 84,550 3,778 35

Quoted from BallPin:

I did! I never made another post about them. I'm just replying to people calling me a liar and assuming I'm a podcaster. I think that's fair.

Well, Chris, when you outright lie repeatedly, people call you a liar. When you treat people like they're stupid and you're the Almighty, they dislike you. You, of all people, know this best.

I do like your attempt at a change in tone. You might be a dick, but you're an entertaining dick!

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#14646 3 years ago
 
ROB

transprtr4u

Pinside+ Frequent

CA Edmonton, AB

10y 130K 8,397 3 1

Quoted from BallPin:

where everyone that's a jerk to me

Wonder why.... Hmmmm, go back and read your posts!
You stated your new to Pinball, however you seemingly know everthing.?

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#14647 3 years ago
 
JOE

BallPin

Inactive member

3y 33,800 244

Quoted from beergut666:

Sorry your fee fees are hurt, maybe try not running your mouth so much.[quoted image]

Yah, it's the only forum that someone wished my family got covid and that I have a baby with autism. That is the first time in my life anyone has ever said that, and first time I heard anyone say it to someone else. That is pretty extreme.

Didn't know pinball brought out this much hate in people. I have never said anything bad about anyone or addressed anyone negatively. Yet I keep taking a beating all because the group think here thinks, I'm someone else. Makes total sense!

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#14648 3 years ago
 
JH

NoQuarters

Pinside+ Frequent

8y 124K 3,002 13 2

Quoted from BallPin:

Yah, it's the only forum that someone wished my family got covid and that I have a baby with autism. That is the first time in my life anyone has ever said that, and first time I heard anyone say it to someone else. That is pretty extreme.

That's pretty rotten.

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#14649 3 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,208

Quoted from pookycade:

THIS ^. You can’t have an assembly line until you actually have engineers put the first 20 together. Too many problems to work out on assembly

That's why they have sample games... to dry run your processes and parts. Their manufacturing plan for the assemblies and games should have been worked out long before they put any bodies and games down the line.

The suggestion brought up wasn't one of 'early samples with shakedowns by the people making up the processes and parts' - it was a cheeky statement that there is so few games to build they would just draw in the white collar workers to do it.

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#14650 3 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,208

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Or show where anyone of the "deep six" said/ wrote the orange peel playfield was unplayable (because of the orange peel/ quality and NOT because other stuff completely out of context)

Time cued for her pleasure...

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