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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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  • 1,149 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 38 hours ago by stubborngamer
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#14401 3 years ago
 
TOM

Tomass

Pinside member

US Wasilla, AK

6y 98,350 3,835 17

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Who has said they are scamming? I think that's your word.
Most if not all of us are talking about incompetence. 8 years to get a game to show, then recall it, then show it again? Primary designer took people's money and didn't produce a game. No manufacturing line seen so far. Parts not ordered. CEO calls LEDs "leads. "How much evidence do you need showing that this could end badly? If it's only a deposit, you might get away with just losing that I suppose.
This is the gamble purchase (or deposit), and it is one I'm not willing to take.

What do you call selling games and not making them? How many times have you seen the term vaporware in this thread?

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#14402 3 years ago
 
WRB

wrb1977

Pinside member

US Pittsburgh, PA

8y 70,800 947 10 7

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#14403 3 years ago
 
JCW

LOTR_breath

Pinside member

US Fultondale, AL

11y 125K 5,678 9 101

Someone mentioned that they added descriptions for some of the options so I went back to take a look. What do you think you get for your $80? A pair of slingshot plastics and some stickers that you get in all Stern games for free? And $90 for a screen protector. What's the mark-up on that, like 400%?

pinkit (resized).JPGpinkit (resized).JPG

screen protector (resized).JPGscreen protector (resized).JPG
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#14404 3 years ago
 
PJF

rai

Pinside member

20y 169K 18,772 34

$5900 isn't that bad.

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#14405 3 years ago
 
LMS

Tranquilize

Pinside member

9y 84,550 3,780 35

Quoted from Tomass:

What do you call selling games and not making them? How many times have you seen the term vaporware in this thread?

I call it incompetence. No one is suggesting they are planning to rip anyone off. That doesn't mean it will end well.

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#14406 3 years ago
 
ARG

spinal

Pinside member

7y 69,150 1,537

Agree, no one would go through all this trouble to scam. DR are sincerely trying to succeed.

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#14407 3 years ago
 
TOM

Tomass

Pinside member

US Wasilla, AK

6y 98,350 3,835 17

Quoted from Tranquilize:

No one is suggesting they are planning to rip anyone off.

You sure about that? We must be reading different threads. Also not sure why you take this so personally. I didn't direct that at you.

I don't know how this plays out but all the haters just represent the worst of pinside and our society in general. I feel bad for the people who have to live with some of these folks.

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#14408 3 years ago
 
MJS

Mercifull

Inactive member

GB Frome

5y 20,050 59 1

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

That’s right. You don’t know. There’s quite a history there.

That’s an unnecessarily passive aggressive response to my observation. I openly admitted that I did not know the history between Ben Heck and Deeproot/Zidware/JPOP.

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#14409 3 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Quoted from Tomass:

I don't know how this plays out but all the haters just represent the worst of pinside and our society in general.

I ran away from John's purple shit show and helped found Spooky, which has shipped thousands of ACTUAL GAMES, employs 30 people and generates millions for vendors.

I'm soooooo awful.

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#14410 3 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,448

Quoted from benheck:

I ran away from John's purple shit show and helped found Spooky, which has shipped thousands of ACTUAL GAMES, employs 30 people and generates millions for vendors.
I'm soooooo awful.

How dare you know what you’re talking about online

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#14411 3 years ago
 
MJS

Mercifull

Inactive member

GB Frome

5y 20,050 59 1

Quoted from benheck:

I ran away from John's purple shit show and helped found Spooky, which has shipped thousands of ACTUAL GAMES, employs 30 people and generates millions for vendors.
I'm soooooo awful.

I didn’t know until this thread you had any prior connection to Deeproot, even if that is more via JPOP, I watched a few of your old YouTube videos when you were building a machine years ago (I think the one that morphed into American Horror or some sort of haunted house, I can’t remember) I presumed (obviously incorrectly) that you launched Spooky straight from that

I guess a lot of people on Pinside probably knew all that already, but some of us don’t... they just see a new manufacturer which has created something quite cool looking weirdly getting a lot of negative attention.

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#14412 3 years ago
 
SMD

stevevt

The Pinball Co-op

US South Burlington, VT

11y 137K 2,690 1

Quoted from Mercifull:

created

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

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#14413 3 years ago
 
MJS

Mercifull

Inactive member

GB Frome

5y 20,050 59 1

Quoted from stevevt:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Perhaps I should have used the word “showcased” instead? Haha

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#14414 3 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,888 28 49

Quoted from benheck:

I ran away from John's purple shit show and helped found Spooky, which has shipped thousands of ACTUAL GAMES, employs 30 people and generates millions for vendors.
I'm soooooo awful.

Nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. I don't care if it's over and over again! I like it. . My favorite red flag was the "option" that you and John would come to our houses and do an assembly of our games!

A lot of people have those same feelings about John. I was right there with you from day one. He kept taking money from people, to fund his doodling efforts, knowing full well he was never going to produce anything. It's not even a Ponzi scheme because nothing ever got produced. Well i guess MG counts? Lol

Meanwhile, Spooky has evolved into a nice company from the ground up. That deserves respect and applause!

There are plenty of other people's livelihood at stake with DR. Really good and talented people.

I hope for the sake of pinball, the employees etc. this is just the starting point for DR and they grow into a success story.

Trying to scam people? There are a lot easier ways to do it than starting a pinball company. Lol

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#14415 3 years ago
 
TOM

Tomass

Pinside member

US Wasilla, AK

6y 98,350 3,835 17

Quoted from benheck:

I ran away from John's purple shit show and helped found Spooky, which has shipped thousands of ACTUAL GAMES, employs 30 people and generates millions for vendors.
I'm soooooo awful.

Yes, you have mentioned your achievements several times in this thread. There are many vile people who have done seemingly amazing things. Before you get your panties in a bunch I am not calling you vile. Funny how calling out negativity really hits a nerve.

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#14416 3 years ago
 
JCW

LOTR_breath

Pinside member

US Fultondale, AL

11y 125K 5,678 9 101

Of all the threads on Pinside, the Deep Root thread is probably the least applicable to "Haters gonna hate". Almost all of the negativity is well founded.

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#14417 3 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,448

I wonder if on location I could order up a fresh pint of Haterade from the PinBar

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#14418 3 years ago
 
MJS

Mercifull

Inactive member

GB Frome

5y 20,050 59 1

Quoted from TreyBo69:

I wonder if on location I could order up a fresh pint of Haterade from the PinBar

Lol, I appreciate that you’re taking the piss but let’s think for a moment of some potential other uses for the pin bar for operators. Once you’ve got something like this that could tap into a Wi-fi network on location then in theory yes there are lots of possibilities.

From simple things like advertising drinks or food deals during attract mode or potentially it would be possible for a player to order things from an operator. Alternatively perhaps points that can be spent at the atomic shop could also be redeemed for prizes in real life. Like how some ticket machines you can trade 10,000 tickets in return for a lollipop.

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#14419 3 years ago
 
JH

NoQuarters

Pinside+ Frequent

8y 128K 3,011 13 1

Hit the pinbar and the establishment your in brings your beer and food order out to you at the pinball game. Saves you 20 steps going up to the bar to order.

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#14420 3 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,888 28 49

Quoted from NoQuarters:

Hit the pinbar and the establishment your in brings your beer and food order out to you at the pinball game. Saves you 20 steps going up to the bar to order.

If that’s all the pinbar did, it’s a great innovation!

Ordering beer without interruption from playing the pin

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#14421 3 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Quoted from NoQuarters:

Hit the pinbar and the establishment your in brings your beer and food order out to you at the pinball game. Saves you 20 steps going up to the bar to order.

Now that's an idea I can get behind! It'd be like all those iPads in the Laguardia Delta terminal.

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#14422 3 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from Mercifull:

From simple things like advertising drinks or food deals during attract mode or potentially it would be possible for a player to order things from an operator. Alternatively perhaps points that can be spent at the atomic shop could also be redeemed for prizes in real life. Like how some ticket machines you can trade 10,000 tickets in return for a lollipop.

I get that you're trying to be creative here but please, oh my god, no. As a player, the last thing I want from my machine is advertising. I hate it even at home with my Spooky games when I see an advertisement for Pinball Life. Maybe it's just me but it feels like more internet, business, invasion and manipulation.

I wanna play pinball and escape the real world.

And couldn't I just order a beer using my smartphone without being prompted by a scrolling marquee?

Now the one fantastic use I could see about the Pinbar would be the ability for the customer to immediately notify the operator that the machine is broken. Stuck ball? Boom, right to his cell phone and he'd probably be sitting at the bar.

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#14423 3 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,539

Quoted from Tomass:

Yes, you have mentioned your achievements several times in this thread. There are many vile people who have done seemingly amazing things. Before you get your panties in a bunch I am not calling you vile. Funny how calling out negativity really hits a nerve.

If you hate negativity you should really should avoid 2 years’ worth of deep root management interviews.

Reading those interviews, your “haters gonna hate” spidey sense is gonna be off the charts.

Robert says so many mean things about the rest of the industry. Positivity was in super short supply!

(Maybe positive is an option now at checkout? The Deep Root PosiKit package for $950?)

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#14424 3 years ago
 
JJZ

toyotaboy

RandOM Pinball

US Allyn, WA

12y 184K 11,936 3 14

Quoted from Mr68:

I get that you're trying to be creative here but please, oh my god, no. As a player, the last thing I want from my machine is advertising. I hate it even at home with my Spooky games when I see an advertisement for Pinball Life. Maybe it's just me but it feels like more internet, business, invasion and manipulation.
I wanna play pinball and escape the real world.
And couldn't I just order a beer using my smartphone without being prompted by a scrolling marquee?
Now the one fantastic use I could see about the Pinbar would be the ability for the customer to immediately notify the operator that the machine is broken. Stuck ball? Boom, right to his cell phone and he'd probably be sitting at the bar.

Yes, or more operators could leave their number on the instruction card to call or text them... or if they don't want people to know their phone number, setup a free twitter account so people can DM them.

Also I once owned a lethal weapon and it had the audacity to advertise the next game (tales from the crypt). I also had system 11 games that told me to say no to drugs.

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#14425 3 years ago
 
DAD

Yelobird

The Mod Couple

US Wheaton, IL

20y 160K 10,056 44 37

Quoted from Mercifull:

Lol, I appreciate that you’re taking the piss but let’s think for a moment of some potential other uses for the pin bar for operators. Once you’ve got something like this that could tap into a Wi-fi network on location then in theory yes there are lots of possibilities.
From simple things like advertising drinks or food deals during attract mode or potentially it would be possible for a player to order things from an operator. Alternatively perhaps points that can be spent at the atomic shop could also be redeemed for prizes in real life. Like how some ticket machines you can trade 10,000 tickets in return for a lollipop.

I think its rather a smart idea. Not for a home user but whos kidding who. Moving forward post Covid its going to take a huge sell on operators to get business owners to put Pins back in on location. To show the New technology could Help move sales/services (drinks etc) in the establishment and be self serve would certainly be a selling point. Yes we hate change but I see this as a support for operators and a smart option.

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#14426 3 years ago
 
CLE

CLEllison

Pinside+ Frequent

US Portland, OR

5y 66,550 1,613 4 7

The pinbar could be used for many different things but what makes sense and what is actually cost effective is another story.
Order a drink (flashing light requesting service on top of machine like slot machines)
Order a drink with pinbar integration into house Point of Sale system
GPS enabled services that allow ordering an Uber or Lift.
Server connected SMS - you can talk with people online. (Would require ability of pause feature in menu)
Operator notification of malfunction sent via email or SMS

However none of those things are a selling point for me personally and I would really like to know how much additional cost is incurred by adding the pinbar and I would love to see an option to order without and move the menu controls back to the flippers. Right left to scroll and simultaneous left/right to select.

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#14427 3 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,539

JFC who needs their fn pinball machine to order a drink for them. Is this really what it’s come to?!

So I order chicken fingers and a beer to my RAZA. Now I gotta babysit this blinged out monstrosity until my food shows up?! It takes 45 minutes for your fried bar food to show up sometimes!!

This is a terrible idea and just emphasizes how the pinbar is an “innovation” in search of a purpose.

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#14428 3 years ago
 
MOO

metallik

Pinside member

US Cincinnati, OH

11y 117K 6,521 44

Quoted from Mr68:

I hate it even at home with my Spooky games when I see an advertisement for Pinball Life.

I hate ads as well, but the Spooky stuff really doesn't bother me as they just list the companies involved with creating that particular game. RZSI shows Pinballlife and Back Alley; IIRC those companies supplied most of the parts for the game. I always considered PBL and SP to be partners of sorts anyway.

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#14429 3 years ago
 
AXE

YeOldPinPlayer

Inactive member

Unknown

8y 111K 6,454 4 12

Quoted from Mercifull:

advertising drinks or food deals during attract mode

I’ve played a lot of pinball on location and never once wished the table was showing me advertisements.

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#14430 3 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,539

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

I’ve played a lot of pinball on location and never once wished the table was showing me advertisements.

From an OPerator’s standpoint it’s not the worst idea, and it’s not like you won’t put $1 in a game just because it’s trying to sell you chicken wings. but most operators don’t own the bar the game is in so I don’t see it getting taken advantage of too much.

JJP games allow operators to put whatever they want on the screen and I’ve rarely seen anything on it that wasn’t factory. Jalapeño popper deals change so often it’s just not gonna used much or at all in this capacity.

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#14431 3 years ago
 
LMS

Tranquilize

Pinside member

9y 84,550 3,780 35

Quoted from Tomass:

You sure about that? We must be reading different threads. Also not sure why you take this so personally. I didn't direct that at you.
I don't know how this plays out but all the haters just represent the worst of pinside and our society in general. I feel bad for the people who have to live with some of these folks.

Personally? What does this have to do with me? I couldn't care less. It's just that we do appear to be reading different threads. I see a thread full of men saying "Be careful here: we've seen all this before. They might not be able to pull this off." You see a thread full of men saying "Deeproot is systematically running a pinball racket to scam money. They have no intention of producing machines."

I've read the thread, and I'm simply arguing that your comprehension of the situation is incorrect.

It is.

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#14432 3 years ago
 
ROB

RCA1

Pinside+ Addict

US St Joseph, MI

11y 128K 8,681 28 11

Waitress: Hey, who ordered all this food from the pinball machine?
Random Customer: I dunno, the guys playing pinball left 20 minutes ago.

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#14433 3 years ago
 
LMS

Tranquilize

Pinside member

9y 84,550 3,780 35

Quoted from RCA1:

Waitress: Hey, who ordered all this food from the pinball machine?
Random Customer: I dunno, the guys playing pinball left 20 minutes ago.

Waitress: Well, they paid for it through the pinball machine. You guys hungry?
Random Pinheads: Fuck yeah!

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#14434 3 years ago
 
KIM

pinballkim

Pinside member

12y 74,300 1,025

Quoted from toyotaboy:

Yes, or more operators could leave their number on the instruction card to call or text them... or if they don't want people to know their phone number, setup a free twitter account so people can DM them.
Also I once owned a lethal weapon and it had the audacity to advertise the next game (tales from the crypt). I also had system 11 games that told me to say no to drugs.

T-shirt’s! Don’t forget the T-shirts’!

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#14435 3 years ago
 
LTG

LTG

Pinside member

US Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,966 24 7

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

From an OPerator’s standpoint it’s not the worst idea,

I thought when P2K came out with the video screen. That running advertisements during attract mode for the location, or other things. Could help pay for the rising cost of equipment. And help get it in locations if you could advertise their stuff on it.

LTG : )

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#14436 3 years ago
 
TOM

Tomass

Pinside member

US Wasilla, AK

6y 98,350 3,835 17

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Personally? What does this have to do with me? I couldn't care less. It's just that we do appear to be reading different threads. I see a thread full of men saying "Be careful here: we've seen all this before. They might not be able to pull this off." You see a thread full of men saying "Deeproot is systematically running a pinball racket to scam money. They have no intention of producing machines."
I've read the thread, and I'm simply arguing that your comprehension of the situation is incorrect.
It is.

"Personally", because I made a statement and you assume I am talking to you. When you say "no one here", you claim to speak for the entire group. I will apologize for upsetting you and setting you off. I am merely giving an alternative view to all the bitching. Just like everyone has a right to bitch, I have a right to call it out. No hard feelings, man.

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#14437 3 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

Quoted from Mercifull:

I didn’t know until this thread you had any prior connection to Deeproot, even if that is more via JPOP, I watched a few of your old YouTube videos when you were building a machine years ago (I think the one that morphed into American Horror or some sort of haunted house, I can’t remember) I presumed (obviously incorrectly) that you launched Spooky straight from that
I guess a lot of people on Pinside probably knew all that already, but some of us don’t... they just see a new manufacturer which has created something quite cool looking weirdly getting a lot of negative attention.

Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland was LITERALLY Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland:

benheckpinball5 (resized).pngbenheckpinball5 (resized).png

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#14438 3 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

benheckpinball4 (resized).jpgbenheckpinball4 (resized).jpg
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#14439 3 years ago
 
JIM

cpr9999

CPR9999MODS.COM

17y 118K 4,768 29

Quoted from woodworker:

Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland was LITERALLY Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland:
[quoted image]

Looks just like that picture.

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#14440 3 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

benheckpinball6 (resized).jpgbenheckpinball6 (resized).jpg
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#14441 3 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

Look at the date in the upper left corner. 2011.

Deep Root is the FOURTH ATTEMPT to release this game. And they don't have enough money left to order parts....

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#14442 3 years ago
 
ROB

RCA1

Pinside+ Addict

US St Joseph, MI

11y 128K 8,681 28 11

Wow, RAZA had zombies at one time.

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#14443 3 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that they are the 4th company in a row, including Zidware, trying to release JPop's games. There is a long, terrible history of money being wasted on this man with zero results.

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#14444 3 years ago
 
AE

aeneas

Flippers.be

11y 76,050 1,523

And there was a nice video:

The jpop website is down I see.. (open video on youtube and see comments)

Was thinking of writing here what I remember what jpop all did the last 10 years, but going from memory I would make mistakes and don't want to get sued.
So those who are new to pinball and want to know more, search around. Those who don't want to search, don't complain here to those who want to warn you for what happened in the past..

Added over 3 years ago:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190413082632/http://www.johnpopadiuk.com/
wayback machine still shows what was up - has a little bit of the backstory up to 2015..

Post last edited 3 years ago: “added link”

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#14445 3 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,647

Quoted from toyotaboy:

I also had system 11 games that told me to say no to drugs.

The rule use to be, whoever saw that message first has to yell out, "Nancy" and we'd all get high.

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#14446 3 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

I still remember watching the video of Ben designing the "4D" room at JPop's shop. It was a rotating circle with 3 separate rooms that you could play under the playfield. The location of that room was the green section below the Xenon Gas Tube Shot. You can see the "4D" logo on the left side too:

RAZA playfield (resized).jpgRAZA playfield (resized).jpg

When Ben left the project, JPop of course could not get the room to work on his own and removed it. Other versions of the playfield put a spinner in that location but still kept the 4D logo:

zombie_playfield_2 (resized).jpgzombie_playfield_2 (resized).jpg

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#14447 3 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

Found the old 4D room. You can also see mockups of the original "Z" ramps and the loop he removed:

IMG_1881 (resized).jpgIMG_1881 (resized).jpg

It is definitely not the game now that we were all hoping it would be...

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#14448 3 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Yeah the idea was a lower PF with a static flipper and a circular "lazy Susan" portion above it. The Susan would rotate and reveal different "room scenes", I wanna say 3 total? They'd have different targets, return paths etc. The final room had a reactor you'd bash to blow something up. Sounds elaborate but hey it was a 10k game why not?

We also had a Skee Ball skill shot (so obvious, and so TOTAN, shocked that didn't stay in) and a "acid dunk tank" No wait. It was zombie juice. You put people in it to make zombies (hero's GF would be dangled above it for instance)

Right. Anyway. You make the shot and the ball is captured. Then there's a gag to show a ball dropping through the tank. Then the ball becomes infected and a green ball pops out (think Powerball) I think we got hung up on how to detect and reload the ball, but it was a cool concept.

But yeah. I left to help Spooky and John began turning it into Cyclone Atomic Purple Edition. I mean look at that drawing above it has a Dracula Spook House for crying out loud, he didn't even change the name!

Also does anyone else appreciate the irony of a lawyer going gaga for the art on a game that's at least 3 lawsuits waiting to happen? (Toho, MGM, Topps)

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#14449 3 years ago
 
BEN

noitbe1

Pinside member

FR Paris

11y 111K 1,937 4 11

Quoted from woodworker:

Found the old 4D room. You can also see mockups of the original "Z" ramps and the loop he removed:
[quoted image]
It is definitely not the game now that we were all hoping it would be...

Thanks for sharing.
I got this one too:

2FC1FC79-D758-453D-9102-9B00E6B027AB (resized).png2FC1FC79-D758-453D-9102-9B00E6B027AB (resized).png
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#14450 3 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,507

Sketched this while smoking a cigar in my garage. Not to scale but you'll get the drift.

Basic idea was to advance through 3 stages of the lower Pf. A couple generic rooms then the reactor bash. Would rotate 120 degrees to reveal each room. You'd want a super weak coil on the flipper, and need to make sure the ball doesn't get stuck in hidden rooms, but should have been doable.

But now there's a static jet toy you can add to a ramp for $120. Such innovation.

PXL_20201212_213753458 (resized).jpgPXL_20201212_213753458 (resized).jpg
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