Topic index (key posts)

360 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
I don’t really get the Pinpod but I’m dying to see someone roll one into a show.
I’ve moved hundreds of pinball machines over the past 20 years and I’ve never once thought “gee, I wish I could add considerable size and weight to this process, which is already my least favorite thing about this hobby.”

I once bought a set of plans for making pinball crates from Jeff at "Classic Arcades". That was a good bit ago. Sounded like a good idea at the time.

As a non-invested outsider looking in, setting aside all Deeproot's questionable bravado, false starts, jpoop, and business shenanigans for a moment, and just looking at RAZA as presented for what it is:

I did get the sense that Robert was nothing if not sincere in his approach and desire to solve some problems (monkeying with legs; dealing with glass; playfield servicing)... making subjective enhancements (speaker and screen placement; backbox style; illuminated panels)... and offering something new (pinbar). We can - and have! - debated whether it was wise to do all of this at once, if at all. But it seems these ideas and intentions came from the heart, so it’s too bad Robert’s interactions to this point have been so ill-mannered and arrogant.

After seeing the pinbar in use I think it does have merit and potential. It is not strictly *necessary*, but even from a servicing perspective it certainly looked nice. And I love the concept of player profiles and personal settings. And sure, why not have game interactions and scoring be there too? All of that is all good stuff! Time and execution will determine how well it’s accepted and integrated but I don’t see anything to hate here. In fact, it seems well thought out and reasonably intuitive for a v.1 iteration. It may take some acclimation, but so do many things at first before they become second nature.

The glass frame and hinge is great. I *hate* dealing with the glass. And the approach to center the playfield pivot for servicing should be applauded by anyone who has tried to work on the back/rear/underside of a Sys11, etc.

Yet the topper socket just might be their most brilliant "innovation" because unlike them reinventing the wheel for everything else, that socket was literally awesome in its clever simplicity. After seeing that I truly found it ridiculous that it’s not been done before. It’s basically an expansion port so really, why hasn’t that been done before?!

The pinpod is horrifically overpriced by a factor of two if not three. As such, it’s reduced a niche - but perhaps defendable - idea and offering down to a sick insulting joke. Those who see the value of a collapsible transport crate - and don’t kid yourselves, there is value in that - might indeed be hard pressed to build one themselves for $250 by the time wood and hardware is factored in, let alone labor for cutting and routing, etc. So fine, maybe it should cost more than $250. But $950 for a what by definition is a bulky heavy crate is an absolute nonstarter! At least a $950+ topper is still “art for the ‘cade”. Your $950 box would be… stored in the garage? For years? Until the one time you call a freight carrier or forklift, ‘cuz you’re not tipping it over into your SUV (will it even fit?) or lifting it upright into your pickup….! The logistics of this are beyond laughable. But I am sure there are some one-percenters who might appreciate the option nonetheless, so how otherwise do you promote and explain it?

The “GI” branding for their rootstadium light option is also boneheaded. Every game needs GI! It predates coindoors, flippers, and screens for god's sake! Who in the world branded it that? They completely ruined what is otherwise a decent feature: $120 is cheaper than any Pinstadium, with better integration into a glass frame to boot. But what a stupid name. GI? Really??? And did they really take GI out of the game otherwise???

Still, overall, there is a lot to like about the offering. The ideas are generally solid. The bones are good. The game doesn’t seem terrible. The price… is interesting. Seems like a lot there for $6K, and I have to suspect the Xtra-Edition is subsidizing that somewhat, which could be worrying. Execution remains to be proven.

And yet the deal killer for me is, with all that text on their site, they somehow neglect to mention enough about support entitlements and what differentiates the cost tiers. Nor the DLC plan. It all seems very much still in flux and hardly confidence inspiring.

However, I’m glad to see it get this far and look forward to hopefully playing one sometime in the near future. It has potential. Hopefully they don’t shoot their last remaining foot tendons off now that they’re about to leave the gate.

Quoted from benheck:
6) Hardly any inserts. So Bowen is forced to make everything about tickets and the game comes to a screeching halt (as I predicted) to make you use the PinBar.

I like tickets, but I also like megaseeds!

Quoted from goingincirclez:
As a non-invested outsider looking in, setting aside all Deeproot's questionable bravado, false starts, jpoop, and business shenanigans for a moment, and just looking at RAZA as presented for what it is:
I did get the sense that Robert was nothing if not sincere in his approach and desire to solve some problems (monkeying with legs; dealing with glass; playfield servicing)... making subjective enhancements (speaker and screen placement; backbox style; illuminated panels)... and offering something new (pinbar). We can - and have! - debated whether it was wise to do all of this at once, if at all. But it seems these ideas and intentions came from the heart, so it’s too bad Robert’s interactions to this point have been so ill-mannered and arrogant.
After seeing the pinbar in use I think it does have merit and potential. It is not strictly *necessary*, but even from a servicing perspective it certainly looked nice. And I love the concept of player profiles and personal settings. And sure, why not have game interactions and scoring be there too? All of that is all good stuff! Time and execution will determine how well it’s accepted and integrated but I don’t see anything to hate here. In fact, it seems well thought out and reasonably intuitive for a v.1 iteration. It may take some acclimation, but so do many things at first before they become second nature.
The glass frame and hinge is great. I *hate* dealing with the glass. And the approach to center the playfield pivot for servicing should be applauded by anyone who has tried to work on the back/rear/underside of a Sys11, etc.
Yet the topper socket just might be their most brilliant "innovation" because unlike them reinventing the wheel for everything else, that socket was literally awesome in its clever simplicity. After seeing that I truly found it ridiculous that it’s not been done before. It’s basically an expansion port so really, why hasn’t that been done before?!
The pinpod is horrifically overpriced by a factor of two if not three. As such, it’s reduced a niche - but perhaps defendable - idea and offering down to a sick insulting joke. Those who see the value of a collapsible transport crate - and don’t kid yourselves, there is value in that - might indeed be hard pressed to build one themselves for $250 by the time wood and hardware is factored in, let alone labor for cutting and routing, etc. So fine, maybe it should cost more than $250. But $950 for a what by definition is a bulky heavy crate is an absolute nonstarter! At least a $950+ topper is still “art for the ‘cade”. Your $950 box would be… stored in the garage? For years? Until the one time you call a freight carrier or forklift, ‘cuz you’re not tipping it over into your SUV (will it even fit?) or lifting it upright into your pickup….! The logistics of this are beyond laughable. But I am sure there are some one-percenters who might appreciate the option nonetheless, so how otherwise do you promote and explain it?
The “GI” branding for their rootstadium light option is also boneheaded. Every game needs GI! It predates coindoors, flippers, and screens for god's sake! Who in the world branded it that? They completely ruined what is otherwise a decent feature: $120 is cheaper than any Pinstadium, with better integration into a glass frame to boot. But what a stupid name. GI? Really??? And did they really take GI out of the game otherwise???
Still, overall, there is a lot to like about the offering. The ideas are generally solid. The bones are good. The game doesn’t seem terrible. The price… is interesting. Seems like a lot there for $6K, and I have to suspect the Xtra-Edition is subsidizing that somewhat, which could be worrying. Execution remains to be proven.
And yet the deal killer for me is, with all that text on their site, they somehow neglect to mention enough about support entitlements and what differentiates the cost tiers. Nor the DLC plan. It all seems very much still in flux and hardly confidence inspiring.
However, I’m glad to see it get this far and look forward to hopefully playing one sometime in the near future. It has potential. Hopefully they don’t shoot their last remaining foot tendons off now that they’re about to leave the gate.

Rootstadium is always in. It‘s the normal (not needed anymore) GI that‘s optional.

While partially correct I‘d always the GI to make the plastics pop more.

Quoted from DS_Nadine:
Rootstadium is always in. It‘s the normal (not needed anymore) GI that‘s optional.
While partially correct I‘d always the GI to make the plastics pop more.

In watching the video they are calling their Rootstadium lights "GI Lighting". The game has traditional lighting standard. Completely agree with #goingincirclez their use of the name "GI" is terribly confusing and misleads the buyer to assume the playfield has no lights. GI=Rootstadium glass mounted LED strips.

Quoted from Lounge:
Interesting that wrb1977 hasn’t chimed in yet.

Not interesting at all...had a busy day...sorry to disappoint!

Quoted from Mr68:
...maybe cut the guy some slack. I always appreciate an opposing view and I thought wrb1977 always presented his thoughts in a respectful way. And given some of the recent developments he's probably reassessing his position. Nothing wrong with that.

I appreciate that...thanks man! That is exactly what is going on...stay tuned...

Quoted from kermit24:
RAZA is a limited run game. I don’t think anyone who goes in on it will be that upside down as long as the game ships.

Correct!
The question is...
Will it ever be "vaulted" though...

Quoted from Yelobird:
In watching the video they are calling their Rootstadium lights "GI Lighting". The game has traditional lighting standard. Completely agree with #goingincirclez their use of the name "GI" is terribly confusing and misleads the buyer to assume the playfield has no lights. GI=Rootstadium glass mounted LED strips.

Oh,... ok. To me it seemed the other way around because the game is so dark. -_-;

Quoted from benheck:
Such innovation!
1) WCS soccer target
2) Cyclone wheel that takes ball nowhere.
3) Spinning duck target no doubt stolen from some old EM
4) Static sculpt of NED! He shakes a little and has LED guns. (BTW Robert saying "LED light" is redundant)
5) Awesome static motorcycle and jet toys.
6) Hardly any inserts. So Bowen is forced to make everything about tickets and the game comes to a screeching halt (as I predicted) to make you use the PinBar.
7) No zombies anywhere because all John wanted to do was remake Cyclone but it was 2011 so he added zombies since they were all the rage at the time.

I wanted LED lit Zombies...

As most of you know, I have been a vocal supporter of deeproot since the very beginning. I absolutely love what I see when it comes to RAZA. Theme, artwork, cabinet, playfield, concept, storyline, gameplay, rules, etc. all look fantastic. The “innovative” Pinbar, I believe, will eventually become standard in some form or another with other manufacturers as well. I’m not going to go over everything that I’ve already covered in previous posts...bottom line is I have considered myself a potential buyer of RAZA for quite some time now.

Now that their website had launched and it was time to order, I had to shift my focus from RAZA, which I’m already sold on, to deeproot the company to make sure I’m making a sound financial decision. Starting with their new website, it’s disappointing. I take that back...it sucks. I went through the entire site and had more questions than answers. Another Pinsider made the comment that it’s what’s not being said that’s concerning...I couldn’t agree more! Just a few examples I saw when looking through the customization options...

The GI lighting options are not clear at all as to what you are getting.

What is included in the PinKit Care Package?

What is their Standard Support and what do you get for the $600 Enhanced Support?

What is their Standard Warranty and what is the $1500 Extended Warranty?

Basically, how do decide on these options when they are not telling you what they are???

On top of that, where did their “hammer tested” logo go?

What is the deal with the subscription and DLC stuff?

And so on and so on.

So anyway, I started getting that uneasy feeling due to the lack of clarity on their website. All of this evaluation took place prior to when the orders were supposed to open. Then, when I went to their website after the orders were supposed to open to make my final decision on whether I was going to take the leap of faith, I was greeted by the screen that said they were testing their e-commerce system. Shouldn’t that have already been done as just the day before you told the world exactly what time orders could be placed? That right there was the point at which I said to myself...enough is enough. By the way, my plan was to order an Arcade edition with the topper being the only option. The topper made sense because it seemed reasonably priced compared to the ones that Stern has been selling. I was going to do the 10% deposit to protect myself the best I could but still not miss out on RAZA.

These events caused me to really look back and evaluate even further deeproot the company, not RAZA. They have not met one deadline, have changed their model significantly, and basically haven’t delivered on any of their promises. So what makes me think they can deliver a RAZA to my doorstep??? And when it came time for me to place my order, I couldn’t even do that. They somehow even managed to screw that up and ultimately lost a sale because of it.

Finally, a fellow pinhead and I were talking about this yesterday, why in the world did they not make sample games for all the Zidware customers that were owed games and deliver those first? That would have proved they could manufacture some pins and would have instilled confidence in the rest of us. Until they prove that they can ship some pins out their door they are not getting a dime from me. I really hope they succeed and I still get to own a RAZA someday as I have been really looking forward to it. But there is just no way I can send them approximately $600 with no proof of manufacturing capabilities and their track record of missing every deadline they ever set. Maybe deeproot will pull through, but at this point in time I have very little confidence in them as a company.

I am out on RAZA...for now at least.

-Wayne

Quoted from wrb1977:
As most of you know, I have been a vocal supporter of deeproot since the very beginning. I absolutely love what I see when it comes to RAZA. Theme, artwork, cabinet, playfield, concept, storyline, gameplay, rules, etc. all look fantastic. The “innovative” Pinbar, I believe, will eventually become standard in some form or another with other manufacturers as well. I’m not going to go over everything that I’ve already covered in previous posts...bottom line is I have considered myself a potential buyer of RAZA for quite some time now.
Now that their website had launched and it was time to order, I had to shift my focus from RAZA, which I’m already sold on, to deeproot the company to make sure I’m making a sound financial decision. Starting with their new website, it’s disappointing. I take that back...it sucks. I went through the entire site and had more questions than answers. Another Pinsider made the comment that it’s what’s not being said that’s concerning...I couldn’t agree more! Just a few examples I saw when looking through the customization options...
The GI lighting options are not clear at all as to what you are getting.
What is included in the PinKit Care Package?
What is their Standard Support and what do you get for the $600 Enhanced Support?
What is their Standard Warranty and what is the $1500 Extended Warranty?
Basically, how do decide on these options when they are not telling you what they are???
On top of that, where did their “hammer tested” logo go?
What is the deal with the subscription and DLC stuff?
And so on and so on.
So anyway, I started getting that uneasy feeling due to the lack of clarity on their website. All of this evaluation took place prior to when the orders were supposed to open. Then, when I went to their website after the orders were supposed to open to make my final decision on whether I was going to take the leap of faith, I was greeted by the screen that said they were testing their e-commerce system. Shouldn’t that have already been done as just the day before you told the world exactly what time orders could be placed? That right there was the point at which I said to myself...enough is enough. By the way, my plan was to order an Arcade edition with the topper being the only option. The topper made sense because it seemed reasonably priced compared to the ones that Stern has been selling. I was going to do the 10% deposit to protect myself the best I could but still not miss out on RAZA.
These events caused me to really look back and evaluate even further deeproot the company, not RAZA. They have not met one deadline, have changed their model significantly, and basically haven’t delivered on any of their promises. So what makes me think they can deliver a RAZA to my doorstep??? And when it came time for me to place my order, I couldn’t even do that. They somehow even managed to screw that up and ultimately lost a sale because of it.
Finally, a fellow pinhead and I were talking about this yesterday, why in the world did they not make sample games for all the Zidware customers that were owed games and deliver those first? That would have proved they could manufacture some pins and would have instilled confidence in the rest of us. Until they prove that they can ship some pins out their door they are not getting a dime from me. I really hope they succeed and I still get to own a RAZA someday as I have been really looking forward to it. But there is just no way I can send them approximately $600 with no proof of manufacturing capabilities and their track record of missing every deadline they ever set. Maybe deeproot will pull through, but at this point in time I have very little confidence in them as a company.
I am out on RAZA...for now at least.
-Wayne

IMG_20201209_222904 (resized).jpg

Quoted from wrb1977:
...
I am out on RAZA...for now at least.
-Wayne

Bravo! This sums it up pretty nicely.

Anyone else get the feeling if these games are made it's going to be done in China or Mexico

Slowly but surely DR is making good on their promises. I have no idea how the game plays but it definitely looks great, great new features and priced like a Stern Pro. Congrats to DR!

Quoted from screaminr:
Anyone else get the feeling if these games are made it's going to be done in China or Mexico

What's the HomePin Factory up to these days? haha

Quoted from Mercifull:
What's the HomePin Factory up to these days? haha

They're producing (rare) space parts for other machines, wich is actually a great idea to generate income.

Quoted from Mercifull:
What's the HomePin Factory up to these days? haha

Homepin did say they were making a zombie game

My biggest issue is that DR continues to display such arrogance coming out of the gate acting like they are the market leader.

Imagine you are trying to enter the pinball market (and build goodwill) and before you’ve even sold a single game, before you even have a manufacturing line, you tell all your potential customers they only get free feature code updates for one year.

And when every competitor gives new features away for free indefinately.

Its a new company, with a spectacular reputation already (train involved), releasing a new platform that will inevitably have a crazy amount of bugs and issues for years to come. Better buy the extended warrany and pinbox (newbs beware).

Why not focus on building up good will with your customer base instead of sending the signal that you continue to be so spectacular and that DR is so much better than every other company, that it warrants extra payment for code?

For every $50 they get from us to pay for a bit of code they will lose at least one sale.

I can speak for myself, this attitude is a huge turnoff for me as a potential customer.

...

And one more point, pinball game design and rules and software development is a very complex endeavor. So complex, that you cannot expect that substantial features released years into the future, that you will pay over $50 per month for, will be anything other than ideas that were preconceived while writing the original code. This means new features that make sense and are well integrated must either be insignificant or break what’s already good in the game. Either way, customers will drop their subscriptions leaving no money to fuel new development. This is the main reason the subscription model won’t work.

Quoted from flynnibus:
That whoosh sound is the joke going over your head

Bourbon will do that

It seems pretty clear when asking for full payment up front, that the consumer will be funding production.

Quoted from goingincirclez:
As a non-invested outsider looking in, setting aside all Deeproot's questionable bravado, false starts, jpoop, and business shenanigans for a moment, and just looking at RAZA as presented for what it is:
I did get the sense that Robert was nothing if not sincere in his approach and desire to solve some problems (monkeying with legs; dealing with glass; playfield servicing)... making subjective enhancements (speaker and screen placement; backbox style; illuminated panels)... and offering something new (pinbar). We can - and have! - debated whether it was wise to do all of this at once, if at all. But it seems these ideas and intentions came from the heart, so it’s too bad Robert’s interactions to this point have been so ill-mannered and arrogant.
After seeing the pinbar in use I think it does have merit and potential. It is not strictly *necessary*, but even from a servicing perspective it certainly looked nice. And I love the concept of player profiles and personal settings. And sure, why not have game interactions and scoring be there too? All of that is all good stuff! Time and execution will determine how well it’s accepted and integrated but I don’t see anything to hate here. In fact, it seems well thought out and reasonably intuitive for a v.1 iteration. It may take some acclimation, but so do many things at first before they become second nature.
The glass frame and hinge is great. I *hate* dealing with the glass. And the approach to center the playfield pivot for servicing should be applauded by anyone who has tried to work on the back/rear/underside of a Sys11, etc.
Yet the topper socket just might be their most brilliant "innovation" because unlike them reinventing the wheel for everything else, that socket was literally awesome in its clever simplicity. After seeing that I truly found it ridiculous that it’s not been done before. It’s basically an expansion port so really, why hasn’t that been done before?!
The pinpod is horrifically overpriced by a factor of two if not three. As such, it’s reduced a niche - but perhaps defendable - idea and offering down to a sick insulting joke. Those who see the value of a collapsible transport crate - and don’t kid yourselves, there is value in that - might indeed be hard pressed to build one themselves for $250 by the time wood and hardware is factored in, let alone labor for cutting and routing, etc. So fine, maybe it should cost more than $250. But $950 for a what by definition is a bulky heavy crate is an absolute nonstarter! At least a $950+ topper is still “art for the ‘cade”. Your $950 box would be… stored in the garage? For years? Until the one time you call a freight carrier or forklift, ‘cuz you’re not tipping it over into your SUV (will it even fit?) or lifting it upright into your pickup….! The logistics of this are beyond laughable. But I am sure there are some one-percenters who might appreciate the option nonetheless, so how otherwise do you promote and explain it?
The “GI” branding for their rootstadium light option is also boneheaded. Every game needs GI! It predates coindoors, flippers, and screens for god's sake! Who in the world branded it that? They completely ruined what is otherwise a decent feature: $120 is cheaper than any Pinstadium, with better integration into a glass frame to boot. But what a stupid name. GI? Really??? And did they really take GI out of the game otherwise???
Still, overall, there is a lot to like about the offering. The ideas are generally solid. The bones are good. The game doesn’t seem terrible. The price… is interesting. Seems like a lot there for $6K, and I have to suspect the Xtra-Edition is subsidizing that somewhat, which could be worrying. Execution remains to be proven.
And yet the deal killer for me is, with all that text on their site, they somehow neglect to mention enough about support entitlements and what differentiates the cost tiers. Nor the DLC plan. It all seems very much still in flux and hardly confidence inspiring.
However, I’m glad to see it get this far and look forward to hopefully playing one sometime in the near future. It has potential. Hopefully they don’t shoot their last remaining foot tendons off now that they’re about to leave the gate.

Quoted from wrb1977:
As most of you know, I have been a vocal supporter of deeproot since the very beginning. I absolutely love what I see when it comes to RAZA. Theme, artwork, cabinet, playfield, concept, storyline, gameplay, rules, etc. all look fantastic. The “innovative” Pinbar, I believe, will eventually become standard in some form or another with other manufacturers as well. I’m not going to go over everything that I’ve already covered in previous posts...bottom line is I have considered myself a potential buyer of RAZA for quite some time now.
Now that their website had launched and it was time to order, I had to shift my focus from RAZA, which I’m already sold on, to deeproot the company to make sure I’m making a sound financial decision. Starting with their new website, it’s disappointing. I take that back...it sucks. I went through the entire site and had more questions than answers. Another Pinsider made the comment that it’s what’s not being said that’s concerning...I couldn’t agree more! Just a few examples I saw when looking through the customization options...
The GI lighting options are not clear at all as to what you are getting.
What is included in the PinKit Care Package?
What is their Standard Support and what do you get for the $600 Enhanced Support?
What is their Standard Warranty and what is the $1500 Extended Warranty?
Basically, how do decide on these options when they are not telling you what they are???
On top of that, where did their “hammer tested” logo go?
What is the deal with the subscription and DLC stuff?
And so on and so on.
So anyway, I started getting that uneasy feeling due to the lack of clarity on their website. All of this evaluation took place prior to when the orders were supposed to open. Then, when I went to their website after the orders were supposed to open to make my final decision on whether I was going to take the leap of faith, I was greeted by the screen that said they were testing their e-commerce system. Shouldn’t that have already been done as just the day before you told the world exactly what time orders could be placed? That right there was the point at which I said to myself...enough is enough. By the way, my plan was to order an Arcade edition with the topper being the only option. The topper made sense because it seemed reasonably priced compared to the ones that Stern has been selling. I was going to do the 10% deposit to protect myself the best I could but still not miss out on RAZA.
These events caused me to really look back and evaluate even further deeproot the company, not RAZA. They have not met one deadline, have changed their model significantly, and basically haven’t delivered on any of their promises. So what makes me think they can deliver a RAZA to my doorstep??? And when it came time for me to place my order, I couldn’t even do that. They somehow even managed to screw that up and ultimately lost a sale because of it.
Finally, a fellow pinhead and I were talking about this yesterday, why in the world did they not make sample games for all the Zidware customers that were owed games and deliver those first? That would have proved they could manufacture some pins and would have instilled confidence in the rest of us. Until they prove that they can ship some pins out their door they are not getting a dime from me. I really hope they succeed and I still get to own a RAZA someday as I have been really looking forward to it. But there is just no way I can send them approximately $600 with no proof of manufacturing capabilities and their track record of missing every deadline they ever set. Maybe deeproot will pull through, but at this point in time I have very little confidence in them as a company.
I am out on RAZA...for now at least.
-Wayne

These are some thoughtful, constructive posts. Deeproot would be wise to pay attention to what the market is telling them. But I suspect the narrative inside is "Pinside is garbage".

OP
Quoted from pin2d:
While we did see the manufacturing area and heard an overview of their planned production process, there was no manufacturing or production taking place when we visited.

I’m surprised nobody’s asked more questions about this. Like, was there any manufacturing equipment in this manufacturing area, or was it just a big empty space? Any semblance of a manufacturing line? What was the planned production process? What’s this ‘octo-manufacturing’ I keep hearing about?

IMHO, being able to bring these games to market is the biggest hurdle DeepRoot needs to jump.

so what happens if deeproot doesnt get the minimum orders they were hoping for? do they just never invest in manufacturing because the ROI isnt there? do they move onto the next title? do they close shop?

Quoted from toyotaboy:
so what happens if deeproot doesnt get the minimum orders they were hoping for? do they just never invest in manufacturing because the ROI isnt there? do they move onto the next title? do they close shop?

What do you think their minimum orders would be? There’s an interesting “home brew” page on their website where they say there is a minimum of 25. Obviously that’s designed for small runs but it’s quite interesting. You could design a game yourself using Deeproots platform they will build it and sell it and give you between 10-20% of sales income.

Quoted from Lounge:
It seems pretty clear when asking for full payment up front, that the consumer will be funding production.

They are asking for 10%.

Quoted from Mercifull:
What do you think their minimum orders would be? There’s an interesting “home brew” page on their website where they say there is a minimum of 25. Obviously that’s designed for small runs but it’s quite interesting. You could design a game yourself using Deeproots platform they will build it and sell it and give you between 10-20% of sales income.

Yes you could spend several hundred hours to design a game for less than minimum wage

Quoted from spinal:
My biggest issue is that DR continues to display such arrogance coming out of the gate acting like they are the market leader.

I haven't seen much of that lately. Its been a lot of eating crow over the last couple months.

Quoted from TreyBo69:
Yes you could spend several hundred hours to design a game for less than minimum wage

I think the home brew thing is more of it would be super cool to see your own game turned into a real production game that ends up in other peoples homes than making a living from it. All these home brews are done for the love of pinball, not to make any cash out of it (the ones that do try and live off it usually fail and go bankrupt pretty fast)

Quoted from teekee:
Congrats to DR!

Congrats on what? They have made one game that they are now calling a production model that isn't even complete.

Now they are taking pre-orders. And people are sending them money, so yeah, I guess congrats on getting pinheads to send you pre-order money for a game that will never be shipped....again.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:
I don’t really get the Pinpod but I’m dying to see someone roll one into a show.
I’ve moved hundreds of pinball machines over the past 20 years and I’ve never once thought “gee, I wish I could add considerable size and weight to this process, which is already my least favorite thing about this hobby.”

I'm curious what the cost is to buy a non branded "pinpod" straight from the manufacturer. I can't remember who it is but somebody linked to it previously.

Quoted from screaminr:
Homepin did say they were making a zombie game

A bit different, but more zombies.

81781551_618896412215839_6759575124225032192_n (resized).jpg

Quoted from Haymaker:
I'm curious what the cost is to buy a non branded "pinpod" straight from the manufacturer. I can't remember who it is but somebody linked to it previously.

For me the Pinpod has too many negatives that others here have already spoken of. But if you're interested, contact SnapCrate.

https://www.snapcrate.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAiML-BRAAEiwAuWVggi-h9-7XjczdwMg_MxEtibJNlHmPOuyA9RahBsgzVGkq-_He_j8o4hoCWe8QAvD_BwE

Quoted from pinlink:
Congrats on what? They have made one game that they are now calling a production model that isn't even complete.
Now they are taking pre-orders. And people are sending them money, so yeah, I guess congrats on getting pinheads to send you pre-order money for a game that will never be shipped....again.

Cheer up dude... I get you're a hater and will never be able to put your 'hurt feelings' aside for just a second to see the positives... but you should try it some time and maybe life won't suck so bad.

Quoted from teekee:
Cheer up dude... I get you're a hater and will never be able to put your 'hurt feelings' aside for just a second to see the positives... but you should try it some time and maybe life won't suck so bad.

You getting the Arcade or Extra?

Quoted from toyotaboy:
so what happens if deeproot doesnt get the minimum orders they were hoping for? do they just never invest in manufacturing because the ROI isnt there? do they move onto the next title? do they close shop?

I think they can sell 300+. But for this much investment you need to be in the thousands.

THEME IS EVERYTHING. If they had showed BTTF in this futuristic cabinet with Delorean like brushed metal people would be vomiting money at them right now. But no. We get (as someone earlier said) John's fever dream tribute to Python Angelo.

If you look at the Zidware bankruptcy filings DR is their largest creditor at nearly half a million. Doesn't take a forensic analyst to see DR bought their debt obligations (game vouchers) in order to become the largest (and only secured) creditor so after bankruptcy DR gets everything.

So that's at minimum half a million spent for a bunch of purple vomit. That's more than Stern's upfront cost to get Star Wars!

Quoted from benheck:
We get (as someone earlier said) John's fever dream tribute to Python Angelo.

Is a tribute the right word ?
I remember Python disliked John ? Correct ? So why would John make a tribute to Python ?

Imo it's the opposite of a tribute, it's John proving he can do better, and more revenge against everyone who was critical of him.

Quoted from aeneas:
Is a tribute the right word ?
I remember Python disliked John ? Correct ? So why would John make a tribute to Python ?
Imo it's the opposite of a tribute, it's John proving he can do better, and more revenge against everyone who was critical of him.

Maybe how like an abused child is always seeking their parent's love (even after death)?

Quoted from teekee:
Cheer up dude... I get you're a hater and will never be able to put your 'hurt feelings' aside for just a second to see the positives... but you should try it some time and maybe life won't suck so bad.

How are you feeling about those re-fakes these days? Pot calling the kettle black here...I don't remember anyone hating on PPS/CGC more than you.

Quoted from frolic:
Maybe how like an abused child is always seeking their parent's love (even after death)?

I think that's the case. It explains a lot, like someone might wonder "why is Dracula on the topper for this sci-fi zombies game?" but then of course there was a Dracula in Cyclone.

John, Python is too busy banging Ayn Rand in heaven to give a damn about your tributes.

Quoted from SunKing:
What’s this ‘octo-manufacturing’ I keep hearing about?

This is their Director of Manufacturing....

octomom-close-up (resized).jpg

Pinpod would be nice insurance if you or a buyer are loaded with money and shipping a game that actually has value with NAVL or STI. If you don't have the skills or tools to build your own wooden crate.

Quoted from teekee:
Cheer up dude... I get you're a hater and will never be able to put your 'hurt feelings' aside for just a second to see the positives... but you should try it some time and maybe life won't suck so bad.

You're talking out of your ass again. I am one of the only ones that has actually played this game and was defending it when people like Levi kept repeating things like "YOU CAN"T HIT THE RAMP!". I hope they succeed. But I'm not a dumbass.

Quoted from jaytrem:
This is their Director of Manufacturing....[quoted image]

Here's her Giving Birth!!!!

Quoted from SunKing:
I’m surprised nobody’s asked more questions about this. Like, was there any manufacturing equipment in this manufacturing area, or was it just a big empty space? Any semblance of a manufacturing line? What was the planned production process? What’s this ‘octo-manufacturing’ I keep hearing about?
IMHO, being able to bring these games to market is the biggest hurdle DeepRoot needs to jump.

In business, no matter how hard we dream business plans change. (IE Eat crow sometimes). While he may have Over sold that octo manufacturing statement it has been long revised to "Quad" manufacturing. What that means no idea nor do I really care personally lol. As long as a game leaves the building. This and more Actual info-detail is spelled out on their website vs whats proposed on Pinside. Not all perfectly but between the content and video most of it is fairly understandable.

Screen Shot 2020-12-09 at 10.54.37 AM (resized).png

Quoted from benheck:
I think they can sell 300+. But for this much investment you need to be in the thousands.
THEME IS EVERYTHING. If they had showed BTTF in this futuristic cabinet with Delorean like brushed metal people would be vomiting money at them right now. But no. We get (as someone earlier said) John's fever dream tribute to Python Angelo.
If you look at the Zidware bankruptcy filings DR is their largest creditor at nearly half a million. Doesn't take a forensic analyst to see DR bought their debt obligations (game vouchers) in order to become the largest (and only secured) creditor so after bankruptcy DR gets everything.
So that's at minimum half a million spent for a bunch of purple vomit. That's more than Stern's upfront cost to get Star Wars!

Amazing really as BTTF in that cabinet, with the pinbar, would have been THE perfect theme for them to knock it out of the park.

Ah well, there's always good old Ned.

RAZA feels like a test run for the platform. 21 day order period. Done manufacturing within 4 months. I don’t think they ever expected it to sell in the thousands.

Quoted from jaytrem:
This is their Director of Manufacturing....[quoted image]

I don't think so, because that would have only taken 9 months to produce a pin.

Quoted from Shapeshifter:
Amazing really as BTTF in that cabinet, with the pinbar, would have been THE perfect theme for them to knock it out of the park.
Ah well, there's always good old Ned.

More I think about this... holy shit BTTF seems like the driving force of this design, right? I mean I don't personally give a crap about BTTF but I can certainly appreciate and respect something executed with this kind of attention: Stainless speaker panel and trim; futuristic digital interface and cabinet design; heck, even a stainless-trim lift-glass frame becomes a "Delorean door" analogue. Add a Flux Capacitor topper, rope lights under glass, light-up side panels with proper art... and you would have "theme integration" like nobody's ever seen!

So much so that you'd almost have to hope/assume RAZA was the necessary goodwill obligation lead and platform test, with BTTF the shocker waiting in the wings BUT... plenty of reasons not hold one's breath and instead file under "what could (should) have been".

Quoted from goingincirclez:
More I think about this... holy shit BTTF seems like the driving force of this design, right? I mean I don't personally give a crap about BTTF but I can certainly appreciate and respect something executed with this kind of attention: Stainless speaker panel and trim; futuristic interface; heck, even the lift-glass becomes a "Delorean door" analogue. Add a Flux Capacitor topper, rope lights under glass, and you would have "theme integration" like nobody's ever seen!
So much so that you'd almost have to hope/assume RAZA was the necessary goodwill obligation lead and platform test, with BTTF the shocker waiting in the wings BUT... plenty of reasons not hold one's breath and instead file under "what could (should) have been".

Wasn't it already established that the "80's Movie License" on the roadmap was Goonies?

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!

Help – Contact – About Pinside – Support Pinside – Top

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago

Topic Stats

You

Find in topic

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

Topic index (key posts)

Reply

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!