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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#14051 3 years ago
 
DAD

Yelobird

The Mod Couple

US Wheaton, IL

20y 160K 10,056 44 37

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

You are a much more trusting person than me!
Can I ask, Why would you not wait until there is a physical game available and buy it then? Guaranteed return on your investment. With all the bad reviews on this thread and with so many people being ripped off last time, no assembly line that anyone has seen and arrogance from RM. Right now you have joined the queue with the others waiting with nothing to show for your money.

All valid points and maybe I side with trust and my personal evaluation of the company and team. Or just crazy? As for reviews in this thread, I personally like what I see with this game And the new era design ideas they created. Totally understand Not for everyone as change is the last thing people like and completely respect that. As for assembly line. I have never asked Apple or any other product company to show me how they are going to provide my product nor do I feel they owe me that right. I work with Hundreds of companies throughout the world that have Never shown their production to anyone. I am buying a product nothing more is my view. As for the others in queue, I don't believe anyone has actually given Deeproot the Co any money and lost or failed to deliver? The Other "Z" company and owner yes but not this company. I do Sincerely feel bad for those that lost on that investment as being cheated Sucks but I can only hope This company (completely different) correlates other then a poor employee selection. Time will tell...

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

People are free to do what they want with their money so I don't begrudge the Yellobird. I've made a number of questionable pandemic purchases myself, including a $2,000 antique art deco lamp.
I don't know that I'd announce it publicly though, unless he's angling for a possible gold medal in the 2021 Point and Laugh Olympics.

Gold? I am going for Platinum fool of the year! lol

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#14052 3 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

Quoted from Mr68:

Did you happen to ask Robert about the User Subscription Fee and what all is involved with that? I'm confused on exactly what that fee buys for your game and how it works.
Thanks

If not Yelobird, is there anyone that might have a serious explanation to the User Subscription fee? Admitley I may have overlooked something on Deeproots webpage but I'm not finding anything.

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#14053 3 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

Quoted from Yelobird:

As for assembly line. I have never asked Apple or any other product company to show me how they are going to provide my product nor do I feel they owe me that right.

Endless amounts of Apple's production line pictures available on Google. Deeproot needs to prove themselves.

https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+computer+assembly+line&client=safari&channel=mac_bm&sxsrf=ALeKk02g-O2wlsnrWWtUL-vrTerYA1blKw:1607468127642&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7hPG1vb_tAhVPBs0KHRiGA4wQ_AUoAXoECA0QAw&biw=1280&bih=577

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#14054 3 years ago
 
FPG

luvthatapex2

Pinside member

US North Wales, PA

11y 129K 5,767 7 100

I thought you could buy it outright without the subscription fee? Its an option.

Quoted from Mr68:

If not Yelobird, is there anyone that might have a serious explanation to the User Subscription fee? Admitley I may have overlooked something on Deeproots webpage but I'm not finding anything.

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#14055 3 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,421

Back in the 80s Steve Jobs loved to show off Apple factories because he had all the production machines painted vibrant solid colors because he was a weirdo

Hell Stern is extremely proud to show off their factory

People who build stuff take a lot of pride in how they do it.

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#14056 3 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,210

Quoted from Yelobird:

I have never asked Apple or any other product company to show me how they are going to provide my product nor do I feel they owe me that right

Was this after Apple was a multibillion dollar company or before? Just want to get my comparisons straight...

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#14057 3 years ago
 
DAD

Yelobird

The Mod Couple

US Wheaton, IL

20y 160K 10,056 44 37

Quoted from Mr68:

Endless amounts of Apple's production line pictures available on Google. Deeproot needs to prove themselves.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+computer+assembly+line&client=safari&channel=mac_bm&sxsrf=ALeKk02g-O2wlsnrWWtUL-vrTerYA1blKw:1607468127642&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7hPG1vb_tAhVPBs0KHRiGA4wQ_AUoAXoECA0QAw&biw=1280&bih=577

Lol totally used the wrong example granted I have seen the Private Apple production labs and those are not public knowledge. Maybe I should have said Rolls Royce Jet engine line but the point is still the same. Secret recipe or otherwise I am only buying a product not a company investor.

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#14058 3 years ago
 
III

TreyBo69

Pinside member

5y 136K 8,421

Quoted from Yelobird:

Lol totally used the wrong example granted I have seen the Private Apple production labs and those are not public knowledge. Maybe I should have said Rolls Royce engine line but the point is still the same. Secret recipe or otherwise I am only buying a product not a company investor.

No, you’re comparison should be to a first time manufacturer who is jumping into the deep end with a logistically complex machine.

Maybe Tesla 10 years ago. Of course they were bankrolled by a multi billionaire that considered it a passion project.

Sorry if I sound rude. It’s your money. I would love to see whatever shows up your door. Did you spring for some pin pods? Not the worst idea for a guy like you with a large collection.

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#14059 3 years ago
 
EDG

Richthofen

Pinside member

11y 75,800 2,695

Deeproot doesn’t have to show us their assembly line. Neither does Apple. But Apple has a history of delivering products to the store shelves and most people buy product already made. Deeproot is asking for people to buy games with money now but the games won’t be built for months. That’s a leap of faith and I’m not sure it’s warranted. Especially since Deeproots game designer specifically was involved in a failure to deliver games prepaid.

But what do I know? I am buying a JP premium from a dealer who has one in stock ready to go this month. Clearly I don’t understand the TPOE.

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#14060 3 years ago
 
C F

frolic

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 149K 9,809

Quoted from Mr68:

Deeproot needs to prove themselves.

No kidding. We've seen countless other pinball startups bring "completed" games to shows and take money and then... well, we've all seen that movie now multiple times.

There is so much skepticism, for good reason, for a company that has blown it's own deadlines by years.

Heck, Jersey Jack would show off his facilities, and it still took forever for games to ship. Heighway had a factory and would show it to everyone, and produced 150 Bacardi games yet my Full Throttle ended up being "2 weeks" away from shipping for over 9 months.

In this case, we've never even seen a photo of a factory.

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#14061 3 years ago
OP
 
TWP

pin2d

Silverball Swag

US Indianapolis, IN

9y 123K 1,710

Hello pinheads!!

The “Deep Six” that went to deeproot a couple months ago have been released from our NDAs now. We have been getting a ton of questions over the last couple months, so we wanted to put out a joint statement now that the NDAs have been lifted.

The #1 question we have received is about manufacturing. While we did see the manufacturing area and heard an overview of their planned production process, there was no manufacturing or production taking place when we visited. So like the rest of you, we will have to rely on deeproot to share any current details regarding manufacturing.

We truly appreciate the hospitality of deeproot and hope that their vision for pinball will materialize.

Sincerely,
Cary Hardy (Cary Hardy YouTube channel)
Chris Chandler (deeproot correspondent for The Pinball Show)
Colin MacAlpine (2017 Pinburgh Champion, top competitive player)
Jeff Patterson (This Week in Pinball)
Krystle Gemnich (Marco Specialties, The Plumb Pinball Podcast)
Lauren Gray (The Backbox Pinball Podcast)

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#14062 3 years ago
 
SMD

stevevt

The Pinball Co-op

US South Burlington, VT

11y 137K 2,690 1

OP
Quoted from pin2d:

overview of their planned production process

If you aren't under NDA, please share this info with the class.

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#14063 3 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,872 28 49

So i received the Zidware updated "Goodwill Agreement" options today.

Actually quite good. DR is giving survivors the option to actually get a full refund by signing a w-9 etc.

I chose to apply my "Cumulative Deposit" to the Extra version, which was also discounted to $8,500 for Zidware guys.

For me, i felt it was a no brainer, and like Yelobird i didn't take the money originally because i wanted to support new pinball and especially a local company.

So instead of getting $4,950 back or $4,500, can't remember, it's $8,500 minus the Zidware $$ for the Extra version.

Crazy for not taking the refund? Lol, maybe but what the heck, i'm in pinball to spend/lose money and have fun!

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#14064 3 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,872 28 49

OP
Quoted from pin2d:

While we did see the manufacturing area and heard an overview of their planned production process

What was the "overview of the planned production process"?

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#14065 3 years ago
 
MEO

beergut666

Pinside member

US Minneapolis, MN

6y 122K 1,473 3 53

Quoted from iceman44:

So i received the Zidware updated "Goodwill Agreement" options today.
Actually quite good. DR is giving survivors the option to actually get a full refund by signing a w-9 etc.
I chose to apply my "Cumulative Deposit" to the Extra version, which was also discounted to $8,500 for Zidware guys.
For me, i felt it was a no brainer, and like Yelobird i didn't take the money originally because i wanted to support new pinball and especially a local company.
So instead of getting $4,950 back or $4,500, can't remember, it's $8,500 minus the Zidware $$ for the Extra version.
Crazy for not taking the refund? Lol, maybe but what the heck, i'm in pinball to spend/lose money and have fun!

Your money, your decision. Hopefully the game is at least somewhat enjoyable in it's final form. I just want to see you and the other people that got taken in the Zidware fiasco made whole, one way or another. Then maybe we can get past this part of Deep Root and on to the next chapter. I'm not really liking what I see so far, but who knows what the future holds, there is obviously some talent on the team there.

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#14066 3 years ago
 
BIL

mrbillishere

Pinside member

14y 81,300 1,381

Quoted from LOTR_breath:

https://deeprootpinball.com/about/videos

That game play demo with Steve Bowden and Quinn Johnson was very helpful. I get it now.

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#14067 3 years ago
 
BIL

mrbillishere

Pinside member

14y 81,300 1,381

Quoted from iceman44:

I chose to apply my "Cumulative Deposit" to the Extra version, which was also discounted to $8,500 for Zidware guys.

I'm really on a fence now deciding between the Arcade and Xtra versions. If you look past the bling (which I admit ain't easy) then it becomes a question of what material differences exist that would affect my enjoyment and use of the pin. Hard to say?

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#14068 3 years ago
OP
 
TWP

pin2d

Silverball Swag

US Indianapolis, IN

9y 123K 1,710

Quoted from stevevt:

If you aren't under NDA, please share this info with the class.

Quoted from iceman44:

What was the "overview of the planned production process"?

It was a 50,000 foot view overview type stuff, really have no idea on that as it was pre-production when we were there.

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#14069 3 years ago
 
KBG

Reznnate

Pinside+ Frequent

6y 89,800 800 61

Did I miss it? Has their been announced delivery timeframe? An estimate?

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#14070 3 years ago
 
COL

Snailman

Pinside member

US Austin, TX

12y 59,400 1,709 6

Quoted from iceman44:

What was the "overview of the planned production process"?

Essentially: wait until they have orders to then determine the scale of parts ordering and production needed for that game.
A "Make to Order" model, vs. a "Make to Stock" model.

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#14071 3 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

Quoted from Reznnate:

Did I miss it? Has their been announced delivery timeframe? An estimate?

zzzzzdeeproot (resized).pngzzzzzdeeproot (resized).png
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#14072 3 years ago
 
DON

Fulltilt

Pinside+ Pro!

US Nowhere Ridge, TN

12y 114K 6,756 8

Quoted from iceman44:

So i received the Zidware updated "Goodwill Agreement" options today.
Actually quite good. DR is giving survivors the option to actually get a full refund by signing a w-9 etc.
I chose to apply my "Cumulative Deposit" to the Extra version, which was also discounted to $8,500 for Zidware guys.
For me, i felt it was a no brainer, and like Yelobird i didn't take the money originally because i wanted to support new pinball and especially a local company.
So instead of getting $4,950 back or $4,500, can't remember, it's $8,500 minus the Zidware $$ for the Extra version.
Crazy for not taking the refund? Lol, maybe but what the heck, i'm in pinball to spend/lose money and have fun!

Ditto. Requested my "Cumulative Deposit" go to the Xtra version with all the options. I may have enough credit left to cover shipping.

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#14073 3 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,872 28 49

Quoted from Fulltilt:

Ditto. Requested my "Cumulative Deposit" go to the Xtra version with all the options. I may have enough credit left to cover shipping.

Might as well see this thing through to the end! Crazy F ing journey.

Btw, Mike, the guy that hosted the local reveal party at the coffee shop that i couldn't attend says he really likes the game and it was a lot of fun. He's a pretty good player.

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#14074 3 years ago
 
CCB

boo32

Pinside+ Addict

US Richmond, VA

12y 61,800 943 6

Why are they asking people to submit a w-9 for a refund? It’s not income and I would hope they don’t plan to send you a 1099

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#14075 3 years ago
 
EWG

kermit24

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 123K 6,538

RAZA is a limited run game. I don’t think anyone who goes in on it will be that upside down as long as the game ships.

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#14076 3 years ago
 
C F

frolic

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 149K 9,809

Quoted from kermit24:

RAZA is a limited run game. I don’t think anyone who goes in on it will be that upside down as long as the game ships.

That FOMO was exactly why I bought into it in 2012.

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#14077 3 years ago
 
BWJ

Oldgoat

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 70,900 1,181

Quoted from boo32:

Why are they asking people to submit a w-9 for a refund? It’s not income and I would hope they don’t plan to send you a 1099

I agree, why do they need your SSN?

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#14078 3 years ago
 
BRC

jellikit

Pinside member

US Plainfield, IL

11y 106K 4,453 6

Does anyone know of any operator(s) that will be putting one on location (pandemic or not)?

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#14079 3 years ago
 
LFS

pinballaddicted

Pinside member

9y 123K 4,411 81

Quoted from Yelobird:

All valid points and maybe I side with trust and my personal evaluation of the company and team. Or just crazy? As for reviews in this thread, I personally like what I see with this game And the new era design ideas they created. Totally understand Not for everyone as change is the last thing people like and completely respect that. As for assembly line. I have never asked Apple or any other product company to show me how they are going to provide my product nor do I feel they owe me that right. I work with Hundreds of companies throughout the world that have Never shown their production to anyone. I am buying a product nothing more is my view. As for the others in queue, I don't believe anyone has actually given Deeproot the Co any money and lost or failed to deliver? The Other "Z" company and owner yes but not this company. I do Sincerely feel bad for those that lost on that investment as being cheated Sucks but I can only hope This company (completely different) correlates other then a poor employee selection. Time will tell...

Gold? I am going for Platinum fool of the year! lol

I sincerely wish you all the best! Good luck.

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#14080 3 years ago
 
???

woodworker

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 43,550 245

Quoted from kermit24:

RAZA is a limited run game. I don’t think anyone who goes in on it will be that upside down as long as the game ships.

Arcade version is not limited.

Xtra Version limited to "only" 300 games.

LOL.

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#14081 3 years ago
 
DON

Fulltilt

Pinside+ Pro!

US Nowhere Ridge, TN

12y 114K 6,756 8

Quoted from woodworker:

Xtra Version limited to "only" 300 games.

Hope I get one. (:

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#14082 3 years ago
 
TOM

Tomass

Pinside member

US Wasilla, AK

6y 98,350 3,831 17

Has anyone seen a deposit system or is this full cash price upon preorder?

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#14083 3 years ago
 
CCB

boo32

Pinside+ Addict

US Richmond, VA

12y 61,800 943 6

Have any of the people who have ordered had the online subscription plan defined. I can’t find it on the site.

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#14084 3 years ago
 
JGI

John_I

Space Coast Pinball

19y 179K 9,069

I just can't imagine there are more than a hundred people aside from the heritage Zidware people who will buy RAZA given how poor the shot layout and game play is in my opinion. I know we all have different tastes in pinball games and themes, so I wonder is it just me? I like the cabinet and the fish bowl back glass, but I can't stand the idea of the Pinpad. I can maybe see some interest in the Nordman games or maybe the Oursler games once the playfields are revealed. Of course there are always those people who want it for the cool art package and shiny lights and whatever, but that is available in so many other games already. For my upstart pinball company money, I would buy a Rick and Morty or a Hot Wheels over RAZA and it is not even close.

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#14085 3 years ago
 
DON

Fulltilt

Pinside+ Pro!

US Nowhere Ridge, TN

12y 114K 6,756 8

Quoted from John_I:

For my upstart pinball company money, I would buy a Rick and Morty or a Hot Wheels over RAZA and it is not even close.

Definitely would take a Rick & Morty!
Hot Wheels, no interest. Maybe back when I was about 12.

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#14086 3 years ago
 
EWG

kermit24

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 123K 6,538

Quoted from woodworker:

Arcade version is not limited.
Xtra Version limited to "only" 300 games.
LOL.

On the website it appears that they won’t be taking any orders after the end of December.

3B755D4B-7282-41A2-9BC7-7B4DF3A8962B (resized).jpeg3B755D4B-7282-41A2-9BC7-7B4DF3A8962B (resized).jpeg
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#14087 3 years ago
 
TGH

greenhornet

Pinside member

US Menifee, CA

6y 71,050 1,671

Quoted from boo32:

It’s not income.

Quoted from Oldgoat:

I agree, why do they need your SSN?

check with iceman.

for individuals, it appears this might be treated as a non-deductible theft loss for the amount sent to zidware, and then taken back as taxable income when received from deeproot. you are no longer getting a refund from zidware, but a goodwill payment from deeproot, which they are writing off. probably holds true for the fair market value of the machine if someone chooses to go that route. requesting a W-9 could be justified.

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#14088 3 years ago
 
TMB

Roostking

Pinside+ Addict

10y 106K 8,562 2

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

People are free to do what they want with their money so I don't begrudge the Yellobird. I've made a number of questionable pandemic purchases myself, including a $2,000 antique art deco lamp.
I don't know that I'd announce it publicly though, unless he's angling for a possible gold medal in the 2021 Point and Laugh Olympics.

I dont begrudge him, but how many more red flags are there lol. I do hope it works out, thats for sure..

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#14089 3 years ago
 
BWJ

Oldgoat

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 70,900 1,181

Quoted from greenhornet:

check with iceman.
for individuals, it appears this might be treated as a non-deductible theft loss for the amount sent to zidware, and then taken back as taxable income when received from deeproot. you are no longer getting a refund from zidware, but a goodwill payment from deeproot, which they are writing off. probably holds true for the fair market value of the machine if someone chooses to go that route. requesting a W-9 could be justified.

I agree and perhaps I misunderstood. I thought, from reading Iceman's note, that the W-9 was only needed if you received cash. As you note, getting product in lieu of cash should carry the same tax liability. Must have misunderstood.

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#14090 3 years ago
 
ARS

Robotoes

Pinside member

US Rutland, VT

9y 48,650 1,250

Someone should track down the rights holders for The Who and see if they know anything about their likeness being used...

For those who saw the “manufacturing facility”...what was inside? Anything? Empty room?

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#14091 3 years ago
 
BEN

benheck

Pinside member

US Madison, WI

11y 115K 5,506

Quoted from kermit24:

On the website it appears that they won’t be taking any orders after the end of December.[quoted image]

FOMO!

They forgot the option for the PinPod(tm) to be spray-painted purple. +$300

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#14092 3 years ago
 
DON

Fulltilt

Pinside+ Pro!

US Nowhere Ridge, TN

12y 114K 6,756 8

Quoted from benheck:

FOMO!
They forgot the option for the PinPod(tm) to be spray-painted purple. +$300

I'd do it. Maybe they'll put back your port hole in the cab.

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#14093 3 years ago
 
ROB

Rocketrob

Pinside member

US Cut And Shoot, TX

11y 43,800 232 4

Quoted from Scandell:

Says the guy without a machine newer than 1995. I simply don’t believe you.
Put your money where your mouth is. Talk with your wallet and put some weight behind your hype.

Lol you everything wrong with this community been here 9 years never owned a NIb machine. Some people don’t have that cash to throw around but I guess we’re in a rich mans hobby I hope to run into at a pinball convention to have a friendly pinball debate. Dude been in the game less than a year. Pinball Game never surprises me.

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#14094 3 years ago
 
KOS

Kkoss24

Pinside+ Frequent

4y 126K 7,527 4 24

I back yelobird 100% .14,000 plus posts before the first pin hits its new owner tells me there’s a lot of built up aggression for something new in pinball ! You want something new you got it ! I was set on our next pin but now have to think it out .The gameplay on theyre website makes me feel a lot better about this one .Reguardless deeproot putting this out as theyre rookie pin tells me they’re here for the long haul ! Everyone in pinball should be happy today .

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#14095 3 years ago
 
WES

JRocket

Pinside+ Frequent

6y 38,900 13 4

Quoted from mrbillishere:

I'm really on a fence now deciding between the Arcade and Xtra versions. If you look past the bling (which I admit ain't easy) then it becomes a question of what material differences exist that would affect my enjoyment and use of the pin. Hard to say?

I got to play both versions at What's Brewing for about 2 hours uninterrupted on that Sunday. I can say that if you get the toys upgrade and rings/rubbers upgrade (if you like the way that looks) then the Arcade Edition RAZA will play exactly the same as the Xtra. If you want the playfield to be even closer throw in the 'GI Lighting' (i.e stadium lighting in the lid) and gameplay experience is basically 1 to 1.

That said if bling is in any way important to you the Xtra Edition was really, really good looking. The powder coat was almost that green/blue/purple color change you see on cars, the anti-reflective glass was crystal clear like it wasn't even there, the 4.1 sound system was extremely loud and clear, and best of all those lit side panels were gorgeous in person. My only hangup on the Xtra based on personal taste continues to be the floating backbox, but if you look closely they have to use that design with the lit side panels because the panels cover where the traditional backbox hinges would attach to the cabinet.

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#14096 3 years ago
 
TOM

Lounge

Pinside+ Frequent

4y 71,050 1,535 5

Quoted from flynnibus:

Was this after Apple was a multibillion dollar company or before? Just want to get my comparisons straight...

I believe it was after they actually built something and then sold it to the public. Which they reliably continue to do. You can trust that when Apple says they’re going to build something, they’re going to build it.

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#14097 3 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,210

Quoted from Lounge:

I believe it was after they actually built something and then sold it to the public. Which they reliably continue to do. You can trust that when Apple says they’re going to build something, they’re going to build it.

That whoosh sound is the joke going over your head

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#14098 3 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,210

Quoted from Kkoss24:

I back yelobird 100% .14,000 plus posts before the first pin hits its new owner tells me there’s a lot of built up aggression for something new in pinball ! You want something new you got it ! I was set on our next pin but now have to think it out .The gameplay on theyre website makes me feel a lot better about this one .Reguardless deeproot putting this out as theyre rookie pin tells me they’re here for the long haul ! Everyone in pinball should be happy today .

Send money now!!

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#14099 3 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,210

Quoted from Snailman:

Essentially: wait until they have orders to then determine the scale of parts ordering and production needed for that game.
A "Make to Order" model, vs. a "Make to Stock" model.

Did anyone even ask why they described a model 180deg opposite of what they had been swearing by for years before that moment?

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#14100 3 years ago
 
LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

US New York, NY

10y 148K 33,519

I don’t really get the Pinpod but I’m dying to see someone roll one into a show.

I’ve moved hundreds of pinball machines over the past 20 years and I’ve never once thought “gee, I wish I could add considerable size and weight to this process, which is already my least favorite thing about this hobby.”

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5,200
Machine - For Sale
Celts LE #2
Midlothian, TX
Ed_in_Texas
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