deeproot Pinball thread

three
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-new-home-new-hires-5-days-deeproot-exclusive-follow-interview/

JPOP (barely a designer)
Barry Oursler
Jon Norris

Nordman left almost a year ago, not sure how far he got on his 2 playfield designs (or any mechs he might have designed)

You may be right. RAZAs main mission is to get goodwill buyers off their back. Subscription model will kill them though. They may get a second pin out, but then, finished.

I know there’s no official announcement yet just hoping the they rethink the subscription .At the very least the cost of it $50/month is insane !

While doubtful, we can hope. If the pin comes in @$4999, they wont be looking to leave $$$ on the table if its there. RAZA may also be a test to see what we will tolerate. Another reason why i believe RAZA is meant for goodwillers.

Dang this thread is nasty to DR.

They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away.

Not a DR fan but hell a new pinball start up isn’t a bad thing.

People were / are nasty to Dutch Pinball but glad they are trying to make it and make it right.

Anyone have a positive outlook these days?

I do!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Worse thing about DLC is it gives manufacturers an incentive to strip back the launch game code.

Strip it back from what?

Problem is they've been "starting" since the first magic girl announcement in what.. 2011? John (and yes, most of the ire is directed his way) has had over nine years to get a pinball released, and here we are late 2020, tons of time and money spent and still no production games.

From what the game would have been if DLC didnt exist, ie. a "complete"game.

DLC encouranges removing features that would ordinarily be expected in a complete game, and putting them behind a paywall instead.

#1. We are all already willingly being taken advantage of. Lol

I’m really thinking Stern and others, one timers, I don’t care what DR does

Although i guarantee you the monthly sub is coming from them

You put your $$$ first or get in line for a TBL at 12500. Let us know how it goes 3 years from now.

Owned TBL, sell mods for it and help people support it. Fantastic game.

Oh yeah, sold it and in line for another!!

People not considering owning are definitely missing out.

So you got in early and arent still waiting, 5 years later. Made $$$, thats cool man, you were the lucky one of 40 or so.

I was in second run of 40. With that said DP has made a bunch more and have lots of orders, upgrading factory and plan to make EAs whole. Going slowly; however, I believe they are doing it right this time.

I believe they already have ideas for another pinball (& they now are growing); but are sticking to the plan to make EAs whole. They need to do this and then people will jump into their next hit machine.

I love subway, i'm gonna pop there for lunch today with my little coupon book

Oh the marvel that was azodicarbonamide -- is fast food bread really the same without it?

I agree that DP is moving in the right direction and I think they will cross the finish line. I hope dr can do the same.

The thing I wonder most about is why there is yet no reaction video from Cary?!

Thought he‘d be happy to finally speak freely, yet noone of the „Deep 6“ made any comment that I‘m aware of.

My thoughts exactly.

They don't want to be sued .
As deep-root has showed , they want money from anywhere , including making you pay for modes that should already be included .

Here's a little positivity for you Jim - a smiley.

Happy Thanksgiving.

If you‘re correct, then stating that as a fact from interpretation of non official/ leaked in progress intel will get you sued.

The overriding mantra in dev land is to concentrate on your strengths and outsource the rest. Stern makes pinball machines, better to outsource the rest.

JJP made the right call here and outsourced.

From the video the game and animations looked great. As they haven’t actually advertised any pricing or add on’s I will judge those when they are Actually proposed by the company vs Pinside. Loving that backbox and the Pinbar is actually a refreshing new direction.

Screen Shot 2020-11-27 at 1.09.56 PM (resized).png

iPhone folks want to try this out?

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/deeproot-pinaccess/id1532427862

deeproot PinAccess
Pinball anywhere anytime
deeproot Pinbal

PinAccess by deeproot Pinball unlocks worldwide access to login, play, save, and interact with our pinball machines and community. Users can save preferences, login to play or administer machines, record and view scores, and submit reviews. Owners can review support docs and videos and submit support tickets.

"I love pinball more than anything else in the world. I am one of the best players and I own tons of games" (EDITOR'S NOTE: I wonder which manufacturers make the games Matt Brown owns)

logo (resized).png

And following in a great tradition, yet another *interesting* DR logo debuts

https://deeprootpinball.com/privacy-policy.html

Also, privacy policy seen on staging site now revealed on official site

App support available here https://deeprootpinball.zendesk.com/hc/en-us.

Robert is ready to assist you https://deeprootpinball.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/profiles/402714372272-Robert-Mueller

Here’s a better logo

4BC74473-7C8B-4FB5-B334-BD8A99122013 (resized).jpeg

Lmao just kidding DR I’m rooting (no pun ) for you !!

I remember deeproot mentioned their machines being connected even if not on the internet because that sounded silly. I guess the phone app handles that aspect.

Native mobile pay support through the app would be nice for operators.

Blueberry has become the man of the month with his sleuthing. Thanks for posting and including links.

Only way I can see this concept working for deep root is adjusting the terms now. First, $50 per month or $550 annually is too much for a subscription. Reduce amount to $21 per month and the plan might work. Base price of game $5k + $100 shipping + $250 per year to include upgrades and new modes is a small pill to swallow. Second, limit # years required to pay for support to 3 years, when it becomes free for life. So if you keep the game, the cost is capped and it is a known amount $5,850, which is very competitive with Stern. Third, they could switch from subscription to dlc model and that means changing what your payment buys from access to new modes to a recorded license fee. The license stays with the pin. So a Seller loses their rights to purchased upgrades and Buyer gains these rights. Making these rights transferable. Other concerns voiced include what happens if DR stops supporting any of their own games? In that case, I agree that all upgrades should be given free to current game owners and it should be perpetually available on a server. The code needs to be there forever. Any of the above changes would be welcome and might help deep root to survive for another day.

If they make it that far, all they’ll need to figure out is how to manufacture a game. I am thinking RAZA might be delivered by late 2021 and Goonies to follow late 2022. Nothing fast happens in pinball. It will be hard for Robert to hold the company together until then, in my opinion. Ten years to release one title with a second pinball game queued up is no way to run a successful business.

Yeah Jeff that seems like a better direction.

For comparison:

Xbox Game Pass. $10 / month and you can play any of like 200 games at any time. But if a game rotates off the service you lose access. (which sounds like the case if you resell a DR game)

Xbox Live allows you to play online, $8/month

Xbox Live Gold, $10/month and you get free games each month you keep forever.

Xbox Ultimate, all of the above, $15/month.

Again the only software subs even approaching $50/month is professional stuff like Adobe, Autocad, Fusion, Eagle, etc.

Yeah, my Spotify subscription is never going to leave, and its $10 a month for unlimited music. I know that is way too much, but it is tolerable for now. Patreon for pinball podcasts costs $6 a month. Monthly life alert service for the mother-in-law is $24 a month. That is my limit of subscriptions - $40 a month, and fortunately - no car payments nor house payments. So would I like to jump to $90 a month? No way, because that feels like a partial car payment. Well no way unless the pinball machine was free

Has 1 EA been made whole yet? Not a chance to repurchase a pin but to get one that ways paid for years ago?

No cell phone or internet??

Yes all the regular charges still apply like cell, internet, gas, electric, water and property taxes. Oops I did forget one recurring charge that is fixed and just like a subscription - my storage unit is $125 a month. It is pinball related too because it stores overflow pins. So damn, I am up to $165 a month without a dr subscription.

Good find! Looks like the app is built using the Zendesk iOS SDK. Wonder if it will remain that way or if they evolve into a bespoke app.

Digital subscriptions suck balls. Just saying.

How much do you think they would want , $50 bucks a month

This is so ass backwards. Give us a product so incredible that makes us want to subscribe.

Fify

For JJP the Scorbit subscription is free for their machines, not just for one year.

I will say that building a robust system and API that scales isn't trivial. I'm not saying insurmountable, but we (Scorbit) have done it many times before, so at least we took the crazy plunge into it recognizing it can be the very definition of insanity...

Also, regarding who builds it, I think that there is a grey area here because I believe that you could really enhance games with an online platform (not just ours, but just as a general view) if your designers and company are on board. The counter argument in any business like this is "focus on what you do well," and if you view the platform as an integrated part of the game, then you probably need to have some talent in house that does some work around this.

Stern is excellent at building games, so you could argue they should (and are) thinking about this internally. To be honest, I have high hopes for all the new entrants as well. Whether it's connecting to an API like us or in their own walled garden, I think it's a good idea to think about these things during the design phase, so it's refreshing to hear people talk about it.

The important and distinguishing point here is whether or not the company wants to develop and secure their own network stack on the machine or not. The Scorbitron is our hardware, so it takes some effort to maintain and keep it working, without the distraction of maintaining a series of other machines, operating systems, game code revisions, etc. If any manufacturer wants to hit our API today, all they need to do is get our spec and have at it. Don't underestimate the work to develop the network components on the game side though, it takes some time.

That logic doesn't really apply much in this industry for some reason. I continue to be surprised at business decisions across the industry to spend literally millions of dollars and years of time to develop features that could be outsourced for mutual advantage. Not-Invented-Here, wanting to own the IP outright, valuing BOM cost unjustifiably above the other associated expenses, etc... MFGs overspend to develop inferior features, consumers lose, and potential partners lose. Pinball design, MFG, and tech feature dev are all very different things.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

The last thing I want in entertainment is another ‘thing’ that depends on internet connectivity to work correctly.

True, My router now has, one nest thermostat, camera security system, two ring doorbells, gaming console, 4 computers, couple laptops, JJP GnR, couple cell phones, couple ipads, television, garage door opener, vehicle while in garage uses my internet, Amazon lights, couple echos, printer, and there are at least 3 more items I'm forgetting. I really don't know how much more my router can handle.

Welcome to the future...NOW.... “internet of things”.....

If they can do it for right cost...it is going on the net.......you will be tracked by usage of those devices.... just install the chip in me.....NOoooooo

Truth is these wifi chips and micros cost bugger all so why not throw them in everything?

Has there been any talk about internet error reporting? You know the thing that would be most important to operators?