Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from Kkoss24:I mean there’s 4 designers working there wouldn’t you think they’re all working on something right now ?
JPOP (barely a designer)
Barry Oursler
Jon Norris
Nordman left almost a year ago, not sure how far he got on his 2 playfield designs (or any mechs he might have designed)
Quoted from Kkoss24:In the Twip article that showed all the different titles DR has planned ,it said in small caption underneath about each games “inovation” as far as mechs that haven’t been used before .I mean there’s 4 designers working there wouldn’t you think they’re all working on something right now ? I think once they get past RAZA and tweaking all the new stuff like pinbar ,the pop(no pun)glass,etc they will run a lot more smoothly .Thats my hope anyway .
You may be right. RAZAs main mission is to get goodwill buyers off their back. Subscription model will kill them though. They may get a second pin out, but then, finished.
Quoted from Roostking:You may be right. RAZAs main mission is to get goodwill buyers off their back. Subscription model will kill them though. They may get a second pin out, but then, finished.
I know there’s no official announcement yet just hoping the they rethink the subscription .At the very least the cost of it $50/month is insane !
Quoted from Kkoss24:I know there’s no official announcement yet just hoping the they rethink the subscription .At the very least the cost of it $50/month is insane !
While doubtful, we can hope. If the pin comes in @$4999, they wont be looking to leave $$$ on the table if its there. RAZA may also be a test to see what we will tolerate. Another reason why i believe RAZA is meant for goodwillers.
Dang this thread is nasty to DR.
They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away.
Not a DR fan but hell a new pinball start up isn’t a bad thing.
People were / are nasty to Dutch Pinball but glad they are trying to make it and make it right.
Anyone have a positive outlook these days?
Quoted from cooked71:Worse thing about DLC is it gives manufacturers an incentive to strip back the launch game code.
Strip it back from what?
Quoted from cpr9999:Dang this thread is nasty to DR.
They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away.
Not a DR fan but hell a new pinball start up isn’t a bad thing.
Problem is they've been "starting" since the first magic girl announcement in what.. 2011? John (and yes, most of the ire is directed his way) has had over nine years to get a pinball released, and here we are late 2020, tons of time and money spent and still no production games.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:Strip it back from what?
From what the game would have been if DLC didnt exist, ie. a "complete"game.
DLC encouranges removing features that would ordinarily be expected in a complete game, and putting them behind a paywall instead.
Quoted from PinSinner:You seem to be missing the point though. No doubt many would consider a one time payment for DLC. However, Deeproot (if true) are considering a SUBSCRIPTION model. (Not a one time payment) There is a difference.
Once the pinball community agrees to a subscription model, then the floodgates will open for us all to be taken advantage of.
#1. We are all already willingly being taken advantage of. Lol
I’m really thinking Stern and others, one timers, I don’t care what DR does
Although i guarantee you the monthly sub is coming from them
Quoted from cpr9999:Dang this thread is nasty to DR.
They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away.
Not a DR fan but hell a new pinball start up isn’t a bad thing.
People were / are nasty to Dutch Pinball but glad they are trying to make it and make it right.
Anyone have a positive outlook these days?
You put your $$$ first or get in line for a TBL at 12500. Let us know how it goes 3 years from now.
Quoted from Roostking:You put your $$$ first or get in line for a TBL at 12500.
Owned TBL, sell mods for it and help people support it. Fantastic game.
Oh yeah, sold it and in line for another!!
People not considering owning are definitely missing out.
Quoted from cpr9999:Owned TBL, sell mods for it and help people support it. Fantastic game.
So you got in early and arent still waiting, 5 years later. Made $$$, thats cool man, you were the lucky one of 40 or so.
Quoted from Roostking:So you got in early and arent still waiting, 5 years later. Made $$$, thats cool man, you were the lucky one of 40 or so.
I was in second run of 40. With that said DP has made a bunch more and have lots of orders, upgrading factory and plan to make EAs whole. Going slowly; however, I believe they are doing it right this time.
I believe they already have ideas for another pinball (& they now are growing); but are sticking to the plan to make EAs whole. They need to do this and then people will jump into their next hit machine.
Quoted from greenhornet:dismiss them all you want, but the pinbar and internet connectivity could come in handy when it comes to paying for your sub every day of the week.
[quoted image]
I love subway, i'm gonna pop there for lunch today with my little coupon book 
Quoted from cpr9999:I was in second run of 40. With that said DP has made a bunch more and have lots of orders, upgrading factory and plan to make EAs whole. Going slowly; however, I believe they are doing it right this time.
I believe they already have ideas for another pinball (& they now are growing); but are sticking to the plan to make EAs whole. They need to do this and then people will jump into their next hit machine.
I agree that DP is moving in the right direction and I think they will cross the finish line. I hope dr can do the same.
Quoted from TreyBo69:That said, if it’s really $5k for a base unit...plenty of people happy to pay that and ignore all the subscription stuff. (As long as there is a 90s William era level code depth without a sub)
My thoughts exactly.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:The thing I wonder most about is why there is yet no reaction video from Cary?!
Thought he‘d be happy to finally speak freely, yet noone of the „Deep 6“ made any comment that I‘m aware of.
They don't want to be sued .
As deep-root has showed , they want money from anywhere , including making you pay for modes that should already be included .
Quoted from cpr9999:Dang this thread is nasty to DR.
They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away...Anyone have a positive outlook these days?
Here's a little positivity for you Jim - a smiley.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Quoted from screaminr:They don't want to be sued .
As deep-root has showed , they want money from anywhere , including making you pay for modes that should already be included .
If you‘re correct, then stating that as a fact from interpretation of non official/ leaked in progress intel will get you sued. 
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:The original point was Stern will do this in house, not farm it out to someone like Scorbit.
The overriding mantra in dev land is to concentrate on your strengths and outsource the rest. Stern makes pinball machines, better to outsource the rest.
JJP made the right call here and outsourced.
From the video the game and animations looked great. As they haven’t actually advertised any pricing or add on’s I will judge those when they are Actually proposed by the company vs Pinside. Loving that backbox and the Pinbar is actually a refreshing new direction.
Screen Shot 2020-11-27 at 1.09.56 PM (resized).png
iPhone folks want to try this out?
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/deeproot-pinaccess/id1532427862
deeproot PinAccess
Pinball anywhere anytime
deeproot Pinbal
PinAccess by deeproot Pinball unlocks worldwide access to login, play, save, and interact with our pinball machines and community. Users can save preferences, login to play or administer machines, record and view scores, and submit reviews. Owners can review support docs and videos and submit support tickets.
"I love pinball more than anything else in the world. I am one of the best players and I own tons of games" (EDITOR'S NOTE: I wonder which manufacturers make the games Matt Brown owns)
And following in a great tradition, yet another *interesting* DR logo debuts
https://deeprootpinball.com/privacy-policy.html
Also, privacy policy seen on staging site now revealed on official site
App support available here https://deeprootpinball.zendesk.com/hc/en-us.
Robert is ready to assist you https://deeprootpinball.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/profiles/402714372272-Robert-Mueller
I remember deeproot mentioned their machines being connected even if not on the internet because that sounded silly. I guess the phone app handles that aspect.
Native mobile pay support through the app would be nice for operators.
Blueberry has become the man of the month with his sleuthing. Thanks for posting and including links.
Only way I can see this concept working for deep root is adjusting the terms now. First, $50 per month or $550 annually is too much for a subscription. Reduce amount to $21 per month and the plan might work. Base price of game $5k + $100 shipping + $250 per year to include upgrades and new modes is a small pill to swallow. Second, limit # years required to pay for support to 3 years, when it becomes free for life. So if you keep the game, the cost is capped and it is a known amount $5,850, which is very competitive with Stern. Third, they could switch from subscription to dlc model and that means changing what your payment buys from access to new modes to a recorded license fee. The license stays with the pin. So a Seller loses their rights to purchased upgrades and Buyer gains these rights. Making these rights transferable. Other concerns voiced include what happens if DR stops supporting any of their own games? In that case, I agree that all upgrades should be given free to current game owners and it should be perpetually available on a server. The code needs to be there forever. Any of the above changes would be welcome and might help deep root to survive for another day.
If they make it that far, all they’ll need to figure out is how to manufacture a game. I am thinking RAZA might be delivered by late 2021 and Goonies to follow late 2022. Nothing fast happens in pinball. It will be hard for Robert to hold the company together until then, in my opinion. Ten years to release one title with a second pinball game queued up is no way to run a successful business.
Yeah Jeff that seems like a better direction.
For comparison:
Xbox Game Pass. $10 / month and you can play any of like 200 games at any time. But if a game rotates off the service you lose access. (which sounds like the case if you resell a DR game)
Xbox Live allows you to play online, $8/month
Xbox Live Gold, $10/month and you get free games each month you keep forever.
Xbox Ultimate, all of the above, $15/month.
Again the only software subs even approaching $50/month is professional stuff like Adobe, Autocad, Fusion, Eagle, etc.
Yeah, my Spotify subscription is never going to leave, and its $10 a month for unlimited music. I know that is way too much, but it is tolerable for now. Patreon for pinball podcasts costs $6 a month. Monthly life alert service for the mother-in-law is $24 a month. That is my limit of subscriptions - $40 a month, and fortunately - no car payments nor house payments. So would I like to jump to $90 a month? No way, because that feels like a partial car payment. Well no way unless the pinball machine was free 
Quoted from cpr9999:I was in second run of 40. With that said DP has made a bunch more and have lots of orders, upgrading factory and plan to make EAs whole. Going slowly; however, I believe they are doing it right this time.
I believe they already have ideas for another pinball (& they now are growing); but are sticking to the plan to make EAs whole. They need to do this and then people will jump into their next hit machine.
Has 1 EA been made whole yet? Not a chance to repurchase a pin but to get one that ways paid for years ago?
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Yeah, my Spotify subscription is never going to leave, and its $10 a month for unlimited music. I know that is way too much, but it is tolerable for now. Patreon for pinball podcasts costs $6 a month. Monthly life alert service for the mother-in-law is $24 a month. That is my limit of subscriptions - $40 a month, and fortunately - no car payments nor house payments. So would I like to jump to $90 a month? No way, because that feels like a partial car payment. Well no way unless the pinball machine was free
No cell phone or internet??
Quoted from cpr9999:No cell phone or internet??
Yes all the regular charges still apply like cell, internet, gas, electric, water and property taxes. Oops I did forget one recurring charge that is fixed and just like a subscription - my storage unit is $125 a month. It is pinball related too because it stores overflow pins. So damn, I am up to $165 a month without a dr subscription. 
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:[quoted image]
iPhone folks want to try this out?
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/deeproot-pinaccess/id1532427862
deeproot PinAccess
Pinball anywhere anytime
deeproot Pinbal
PinAccess by deeproot Pinball unlocks worldwide access to login, play, save, and interact with our pinball machines and community. Users can save preferences, login to play or administer machines, record and view scores, and submit reviews. Owners can review support docs and videos and submit support tickets.
"I love pinball more than anything else in the world. I am one of the best players and I own tons of games" (EDITOR'S NOTE: I wonder which manufacturers make the games Matt Brown owns)
[quoted image]
And following in a great tradition, yet another *interesting* DR logo debuts
https://deeprootpinball.com/privacy-policy.html
Also, privacy policy seen on staging site now revealed on official site
Good find! Looks like the app is built using the Zendesk iOS SDK. Wonder if it will remain that way or if they evolve into a bespoke app.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:If you‘re correct, then stating that as a fact from interpretation of non official/ leaked in progress intel will get you sued.
How much do you think they would want , $50 bucks a month
Quoted from kermit24:This is so ass backwards. Give us a product that’s good enough to stand on its own so we don’t need to subscribe.
Fify
Quoted from nwpinball:Yeah, it's a cool step forward from what Dutch Pinball did with Bride of Pinbot 2.0, although are you sure it's free forever? Looking at the Scorbit website, they are currently offering one year free, it looks like after that it's a paid subscription at various levels.
For JJP the Scorbit subscription is free for their machines, not just for one year.
Quoted from yaksplat:I can't imagine trying to create a robust system, instead of just offloading the service to a third party with some simple API calls.
I will say that building a robust system and API that scales isn't trivial. I'm not saying insurmountable, but we (Scorbit) have done it many times before, so at least we took the crazy plunge into it recognizing it can be the very definition of insanity...
Also, regarding who builds it, I think that there is a grey area here because I believe that you could really enhance games with an online platform (not just ours, but just as a general view) if your designers and company are on board. The counter argument in any business like this is "focus on what you do well," and if you view the platform as an integrated part of the game, then you probably need to have some talent in house that does some work around this.
Stern is excellent at building games, so you could argue they should (and are) thinking about this internally. To be honest, I have high hopes for all the new entrants as well. Whether it's connecting to an API like us or in their own walled garden, I think it's a good idea to think about these things during the design phase, so it's refreshing to hear people talk about it.
Quoted from screaminr:I asked the same question .
It sounded too good to be true .
But yep , no subscription fees for JJP games .
[quoted image]
The important and distinguishing point here is whether or not the company wants to develop and secure their own network stack on the machine or not. The Scorbitron is our hardware, so it takes some effort to maintain and keep it working, without the distraction of maintaining a series of other machines, operating systems, game code revisions, etc. If any manufacturer wants to hit our API today, all they need to do is get our spec and have at it. Don't underestimate the work to develop the network components on the game side though, it takes some time.
Quoted from jsa:"focus on what you do well"
That logic doesn't really apply much in this industry for some reason. I continue to be surprised at business decisions across the industry to spend literally millions of dollars and years of time to develop features that could be outsourced for mutual advantage. Not-Invented-Here, wanting to own the IP outright, valuing BOM cost unjustifiably above the other associated expenses, etc... MFGs overspend to develop inferior features, consumers lose, and potential partners lose. Pinball design, MFG, and tech feature dev are all very different things.
- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com
The last thing I want in entertainment is another ‘thing’ that depends on internet connectivity to work correctly.
Quoted from Lounge:The last thing I want in entertainment is another ‘thing’ that depends on internet connectivity to work correctly.
True, My router now has, one nest thermostat, camera security system, two ring doorbells, gaming console, 4 computers, couple laptops, JJP GnR, couple cell phones, couple ipads, television, garage door opener, vehicle while in garage uses my internet, Amazon lights, couple echos, printer, and there are at least 3 more items I'm forgetting. I really don't know how much more my router can handle.
Quoted from BallPin:True, My router now has, one nest thermostat, camera security system, two ring doorbells, gaming console, 4 computers, couple laptops, JJP GnR, couple cell phones, couple ipads, television, garage door opener, vehicle while in garage uses my internet, Amazon lights, couple echos, printer, and there are at least 3 more items I'm forgetting. I really don't know how much more my router can handle.
Welcome to the future...NOW.... “internet of things”.....
If they can do it for right cost...it is going on the net.......you will be tracked by usage of those devices.... just install the chip in me.....NOoooooo
Quoted from cpr9999:Welcome to the future...NOW.... “internet of things”.....
If they can do it for right cost...it is going on the net.......you will be tracked by usage of those devices.... just install the chip in me.....NOoooooo
Truth is these wifi chips and micros cost bugger all so why not throw them in everything?
Has there been any talk about internet error reporting? You know the thing that would be most important to operators?
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