(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

3 years ago



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#13501 56 days ago

$4999 is a good price point for the base model with pinbar. Hope there are some good licensed themes coming up, I have zero interest in raza

#13502 56 days ago

I didn't watch the stream, I'm gonna just wait for something more professional later, especially as it sounds like there was no direct audio and listening to David Thiel's work is probably the thing I'm most interested in on this game. I'm in no rush to see any of this, show me something really finished.

I've said all I ever want to about Jpop.

But the one thing I am digging is the LCD aspect ratio. I don't mind things changing, JJP's big LCDs are cool, but it just "feels like pinball" to me to have a nice giant translite and a short and wide screen under it. It's a little limiting, but in a good way. You can't just video game or slot machine it up, you gotta think more in terms of pinball graphics.

Typing all that kinda makes me want to watch the stream now lol, I am curious about the animations. But I'll be patient.

The lockdown bar deal, all the other light up crap, it's all whatever, but I wouldn't mind seeing that LCD style become a thing.

#13503 56 days ago
Quoted from cjchand:

Are we talking push on (ala: speaker style) connectors for coils?

What we are doing is latching on to an tiny, insignificant part of an unpublished draft website and aggressively arguing about it for days. Get with the program...

#13504 56 days ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

What we are doing is latching on to an tiny, insignificant part of an unpublished draft website and aggressively arguing about it for days. Get with the program...

This *is* Pinside, right?

14
#13505 56 days ago

I personally love the theme and at 5k would be a buyer of the base model IF I knew I’d eventually be able to play the completed game and all modes for that price . If seeing all modes is dependent on a subscription DR just lost a potential customer .

#13506 56 days ago

Also , if people pay for this subscription you can expect to start paying for all code updates from all manufacturers . No business is gonna continue to give away what competitors charge for and profit mightily from .

#13507 56 days ago
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

Also , if people pay for this subscription you can expect to start paying for all code updates from all manufacturers . No business is gonna continue to give away what competitors charge for and profit mightily from .

Maybe...i paid $9200 for Avengers
Value was gameplay and promise of established code

$5k for this and a one-time $50 payment to obtain the networks update is acceptable because the game is clearly a substantial increase in value for hardware

Let stern try charging for updates in current form...

#13508 56 days ago

Its a subsidized game price in exchange for additional sales and establish customer base...

#13509 56 days ago

There’s a price disparity now but ;
1) it’s not a one time $50 fee it’s $50 a month with a one year minimum.
There are no guarantees that the game is complete within a year .
2) the document said the xe or extra will be 9500 - also without complete code that you must pay to obtain .

3) don’t think for a minute their business model is to remain the cheapest guy on the block while they’re telling us they believe their product is the Ferrari of the industry .

It’s just a business model I can’t support . To each his own

#13510 56 days ago
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

There’s a price disparity now but ;
1) it’s not a one time $50 fee it’s $50 a month with a one year minimum.
There are no guarantees that the game is complete within a year .
2) the document said the xe or extra will be 9500 - also without complete code that you must pay to obtain .
3) don’t think for a minute their business model is to remain the cheapest guy on the block while they’re telling us they believe their product is the Ferrari of the industry .
It’s just a business model I can’t support . To each his own

nickel (resized).jpg
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#13511 56 days ago

Assume the following means that after you buy raza and all the great dlc that when you sell the machine on pinside the updated code doesn't transfer to the new owner:

Software
Any downloads of software on any hardware (including on Covered Devices), including but not limited to any mobile applications, software for game operation, other files, images incorporated in or generated by the software, and data accompanying the software (collectively, the “Software”) is licensed to you by us or third-party licensors for your personal, noncommercial home use only. We do not transfer title to the Software to you. You may not distribute or otherwise exploit the Software or decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reduce the Software to a human-readable form.

(from terms of use: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YnlaO68zaIsJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/about/legal)

#13512 56 days ago

If that annual fee is for real ,there’s zero chance of walking into a arcade and playing RAZA with the updated code .Meaning that potential buyer will play the game bare bones and making theyre decision off of that .

#13513 56 days ago

All right, these are deep cuts from a wayward javascript file (https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/js/app.js) that are only for the true DR completionists:

Mission Statement
We strive to elevate pinball ownership through exciting narrative-driven pinball experiences featuring a no-expense-spared interactive world under glass that highlights perpetual modern tech, innovation, and value in every part of our business and products.

About deeproot
deeproot Pinball is the culmination of years of extensive R&D in redefining the decades old pinball machine for the decades to come. With design and manufacturing facilities in San Antonio, Texas, customers can rely on deeproot Pinball to deliver an enhanced total ownership experience, fun and value, in an innovative pinball package.

What defines deeproot Pinball?

Fun
Original and licensed themes with Narrative in mind

Cool Visuals
Hi-res pinball graphics and animation

Interactive
Interact like never before with the Pinbar™ touchscreen

Value
We build in value in every facet of the machine and ownership

Quality
Ruggedness and Quality throughout the machine

T.P.O.E.
A platform elevating the total pinball ownership experience

Innovative
Our novel approaches increase fun and ease of ownership

Compete
In depth scoring and challenging achievements

#13514 56 days ago

A few years ago I created a command console for my modern-day remaster of STTNG. Similar to this pinbar idea, it allowed the player to make command decisions during the game, like raise shields, divert power, activate Red Alert. Rather than just pressing 2 flipper buttons I wanted to give the player more control of the game, and feel more like the Captain of the Enterprise.

My screen was virtual and hovered above the lockdown bar, only appearing when activated by the player, so not a constant distraction - the advantages of virtual pinball!

Maybe DR saw the video I produced on YouTube and 'borrowed' my idea.

Using the pinbar to play destracting media which duplicates the backglass LCD is a terrible idea. Use it like my command console idea and they'll have an innovation that will lead the way for others to follow.

Immersion is what players want now, and more control will draw them deeper into the experience.

25
#13515 56 days ago

I have no interest in paying $500 a year for a game. That’s a new EM a I could add to my collection every year. stern, JJP and others release their updates for free.

The idea that the manufacturer can push an OTA update without the operator is crazy. What if the update bricks the game? Operator needs to be in control, it’s their earning potential at stake.

All deeproot have done is massively complicated things for marginal value. Operators want the games to plug in, earn , the repeat. Collectors want games to be fun and reasonable and the secondary market stays reasonable. Is the $500 annual code updates transferable? What happens when you want to sell the game? If you stop paying the new DLC goes poof?

#13516 56 days ago

The annual subscription seems like its for distributors/operators moreso then an at home buyer. The only one that seems shitty for a home user is the DLC. I assume the updates/DLC will be available for anyone to purchase seperately but it comes with the annual subscription "free". It definitely doesnt make it seem like you have to purchase the membership. We can speculate all we want but Its also worth noting that Deeproot hasnt offically made a statement on any of this yet. So maybe it'll clear up then? Or maybe it'll be worse? Haha.

"-Free Enhanced Support
-$100 Flat fee US mainland shipping on all pinball purchases
-Buy 5 games, get $2,500 in Store Credit
-Exclusive deeproot Swag annually
-Advance ordering of new game titles
-Skip-the-line priority shipments
-DLC and Updates released during active membership"

#13517 56 days ago

Agreed. Everyone should wait until deeproot makes an announcement with the official details before passing judgement.

#13518 56 days ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Agreed. Everyone should wait until deeproot makes an announcement with the official details before passing judgement.

What?? Armageddon!

#13519 56 days ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

JJP and others release their updates for free.

So far....

#13520 56 days ago

Resale might be weird if you haven’t done up updates for a couple years...gotta add $1000 to bring the game up to date.

#13521 56 days ago

Ugh, so a burrito that you door dashed FoodTruck via the pinbar(tm), isnt a one transaction deal, you have to finance the damn thing and upgrade condiments via the Down Loadable Condiments(DLC), Hopefully I can pick guac over sour cream, or are the rules linear?!

#13522 56 days ago

Not a whole lot of commentary on the actual gameplay.

That is what will sell a game or not.

The competition? Games like JP, EHOH, AIQ, STH, TMNT, DP, IMDN, etc. from Stern. JJP? GNR now. AP? Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels.

I don't see RAZA on the same level as the AP games? Gameplay wise.

I hope the other games in the pipeline are MUCH better than RAZA because i see this game selling a few hundred or so at this point. Maybe a bit more due to the novelty of the new features?

How many can they even manufacture at this point? JJP has a BIG hit in GNR and they can't get games out the door fast enough.

#13523 56 days ago
Quoted from Marty_Graw77:

RAZA Xtra edition. No dimples. No “orange peel”. Power under right front of cab.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]

Super sexy machine right there. The arcade version looks great also. If they have rock solid playfields DR may have hope yet.

#13524 56 days ago

Anyone else notice the rollover light inserts up by Ned? I didn't see any star switches in the inserts. Never seen this in a pin. Neat.

#13525 56 days ago

That poor game has no flow at all. There's a ball going up and down bouncing against whatever it finds on the way.

#13526 56 days ago
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#13527 56 days ago

Hey y'all, Jordan from Fliptronic here, just catching up on threads and stuff. Thanks for those that tuned in and also those that watched the VODs. Just wanted to toss in a few words that while we know the stream didn't hit the quality marks of other 'reveal' streams, this was our first go at something this big. We also should have been better at signaling that this stream wasn't going to be any sort of deep dive or info session, as it seemed the location event was setup by deeproot as a way to see how regular folks interact with the pinbar and game overall without instruction, to observe if its intuitive enough or not. They didn't ask us to do this. I bugged Steve the day before and asked if we could toss our rig over it and capture us and other people playing it while we commentated our personal thoughts. I had planned for direct audio/video capture, and better lighting but as soon as we got to the venue we had never been to before we quickly found out the wifi was not good (had to use my phone as a hotspot, thus not great bitrate quality), the hdmi splitter didn't play well with the pinbar, I did not bring dvi cables for the backbox lcd, the magnetic pinstadium x-streams wouldn't stick to the stainless steel armor, and on top of that I didn't even think about the hurdles in direct capturing surround sound. So we took our licks, setup cameras as best we could, and planned to aim our good mic at the speaker(something we hadn't done before). We also were using a new mic for our talking station that we hadn't used before, so the speech quality from Becca came out higher pitched than normal, and from reading comments, sounded really grating. It's a great learning lesson and hope to get invited to DR sometime with a better plan and integration tech. Even through the chaos of stream tech issues, unending alert sounds, and a rambunctious chat... it was a super fun blast for us and gave us the chance to boost awareness of our channel by providing content everyone has been itching to see. This stream may not have been our best, but feel free to check out our other gameplay VODs and if you like our campy down to earth style, we appreciate any and all newcomers to our chat. Also Becca is a wonderful sweet sweet woman who loves this hobby as much as any of us and encourages me to do stuff like this.
PS: attached is this adorable space cat on the playfield.

126623439_374862210632356_5322679989262074099_n (resized).jpg
21
#13528 56 days ago
IMG_20201123_190522 (resized).jpg
#13529 56 days ago

dr: We intend for our final games to be better quality than what currently exists, more profitably made. We will not be selling more than one model for each title which will simplify a lot of things behind the scenes.

from robert interview with twip.
nearly 3 years ago.
has this clown ever told the truth about anything?

#13530 56 days ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

JJP and others release their updates for free.

Guns N Roses includes Scorbit with no subscription fees ever .
At this point in time you can play with up to eight people on the Internet .
Now that's innovation I like to see .

#13531 56 days ago
Quoted from Venetic:

Hey y'all, Jordan from Fliptronic here, just catching up on threads and stuff. Thanks for those that tuned in and also those that watched the VODs. Just wanted to toss in a few words that while we know the stream didn't hit the quality marks of other 'reveal' streams, this was our first go at something this big. We also should have been better at signaling that this stream wasn't going to be any sort of deep dive or info session, as it seemed the location event was setup by deeproot as a way to see how regular folks interact with the pinbar and game overall without instruction, to observe if its intuitive enough or not. They didn't ask us to do this. I bugged Steve the day before and asked if we could toss our rig over it and capture us and other people playing it while we commentated our personal thoughts. I had planned for direct audio/video capture, and better lighting but as soon as we got to the venue we had never been to before we quickly found out the wifi was not good (had to use my phone as a hotspot, thus not great bitrate quality), the hdmi splitter didn't play well with the pinbar, I did not bring dvi cables for the backbox lcd, the magnetic pinstadium x-streams wouldn't stick to the stainless steel armor, and on top of that I didn't even think about the hurdles in direct capturing surround sound. So we took our licks, setup cameras as best we could, and planned to aim our good mic at the speaker(something we hadn't done before). We also were using a new mic for our talking station that we hadn't used before, so the speech quality from Becca came out higher pitched than normal, and from reading comments, sounded really grating. It's a great learning lesson and hope to get invited to DR sometime with a better plan and integration tech. Even through the chaos of stream tech issues, unending alert sounds, and a rambunctious chat... it was a super fun blast for us and gave us the chance to boost awareness of our channel by providing content everyone has been itching to see. This stream may not have been our best, but feel free to check out our other gameplay VODs and if you like our campy down to earth style, we appreciate any and all newcomers to our chat. Also Becca is a wonderful sweet sweet woman who loves this hobby as much as any of us and encourages me to do stuff like this.
PS: attached is this adorable space cat on the playfield.
[quoted image]

I think the hero of the entire thing (which) was neat to watch-was your quick thinking on asking to stream it...

A1A33BBD-4753-40F1-987E-A63CA73FD859 (resized).jpeg
#13532 56 days ago
Quoted from mrgone:

dr: We intend for our final games to be better quality than what currently exists, more profitably made. We will not be selling more than one model for each title which will simplify a lot of things behind the scenes.
from robert interview with twip.
nearly 3 years ago.
has this clown ever told the truth about anything?

JJP said they'd never do licenses that were allready made into pinball and their standard editions won't miss any gameplay features.

Plans change.

#13533 56 days ago

4999$ + 300$ for GI & Toy updgrade seems a deal.

DLC, well... Just buy the GOTY edition (aka. the game when it's finished).

Plz. keep in mind that everyathing dug up is not final and subject to change, since it's not official.

11
#13534 56 days ago

The thing I maybe like most on this lit up side panel, touch screen lockbar, surround sound system, multistage backbox with wrap around artwork is...

...that a Stern between this game and a JJP will look "old", and Stern would have to up their game.

Stern came up with stuff like this with Star Trek LE, with the lit up Insignia and lighted & animated side armor(; heck even the Premium had powder coated lolipop rails).

If Deeproot can manufacture this thing, it's a good day for pinball, even if you don't like anything they do or stand for.

#13535 56 days ago
Quoted from Venetic:

Hey y'all, Jordan from Fliptronic here, just catching up on threads and stuff. Thanks for those that tuned in and also those that watched the VODs. Just wanted to toss in a few words that while we know the stream didn't hit the quality marks of other 'reveal' streams, this was our first go at something this big. We also should have been better at signaling that this stream wasn't going to be any sort of deep dive or info session, as it seemed the location event was setup by deeproot as a way to see how regular folks interact with the pinbar and game overall without instruction, to observe if its intuitive enough or not. They didn't ask us to do this. I bugged Steve the day before and asked if we could toss our rig over it and capture us and other people playing it while we commentated our personal thoughts. I had planned for direct audio/video capture, and better lighting but as soon as we got to the venue we had never been to before we quickly found out the wifi was not good (had to use my phone as a hotspot, thus not great bitrate quality), the hdmi splitter didn't play well with the pinbar, I did not bring dvi cables for the backbox lcd, the magnetic pinstadium x-streams wouldn't stick to the stainless steel armor, and on top of that I didn't even think about the hurdles in direct capturing surround sound. So we took our licks, setup cameras as best we could, and planned to aim our good mic at the speaker(something we hadn't done before). We also were using a new mic for our talking station that we hadn't used before, so the speech quality from Becca came out higher pitched than normal, and from reading comments, sounded really grating. It's a great learning lesson and hope to get invited to DR sometime with a better plan and integration tech. Even through the chaos of stream tech issues, unending alert sounds, and a rambunctious chat... it was a super fun blast for us and gave us the chance to boost awareness of our channel by providing content everyone has been itching to see. This stream may not have been our best, but feel free to check out our other gameplay VODs and if you like our campy down to earth style, we appreciate any and all newcomers to our chat. Also Becca is a wonderful sweet sweet woman who loves this hobby as much as any of us and encourages me to do stuff like this.
PS: attached is this adorable space cat on the playfield.
[quoted image]

You 2 did great keep up the good work

#13536 56 days ago

Here’s my play by play of today’s stream...

...unbelievable no real progress on this eight year old design of RAZA. Seems to play like nothing but a brickfest and no player seems to know what’s going on. People start by looking at the pinbar options for a long time (no pinball playing), rebooting pinbar what seems like over and over, then play for a minute or two, with the ball not able to achieve much of any objectives. Then player looks back at the pinbar options again, for what seems like forever (no pinball playing). Then another few minutes of brickfest play, then ball ends with player back looking at all the options on the pinbar.

Fun doesn’t seem to be built into RAZA...people watching so bored that chat window has slowed to a crawl, because so many have left. Won’t let Steve B. play, because that would reveal there’s nothing going on in the software or game play wise either.

At the hour 20 mark, no player has achieved a multi ball. Game has no flow... nor has any player accomplished anything interesting at all. At 1 hour 30 mark, finally a multiball has been achieved, but the balls are just flailing all over the place, again achieving nothing...

Hmmmm, how many are in for this exciting new pinbar, with no flow and some occasional pinball playing experience??? (Lol, thinking about cancelling my order)

#13537 56 days ago

I am still undecided and going to wait on a more in deep dive is published on the machine. DR is getting so much bad press right now I feel like most of the people posting on here work for CNN as there day jobs.

#13538 56 days ago

Few new tidbits from fun with bonus. There is alot of cool looking stuff on their website but I didn't see it in the machine.

I am wishing Deeproot success with all of this and hope they build machines soon. If they go the DLC route, and if Stern follows suit past their toppers, NIB is going to be a hard no for me. I think pre DLC games are going to go up in value if manufacturers continue to go this route, with a few companies like Spooky and CGC filling the demand for traditional pins.
https://funwithbonus.com/raza-quick-shots-the-atomic-shop/

RAZA-Quick-Shots-05-The-Atomic-Shop (resized).jpg
#13539 56 days ago

Watching casual players play a game they have never played before is almost always painful. I’m not so sure there isn’t a lot more there. No way to tell for me.

#13540 56 days ago
Quoted from denoument:

Anyone else notice the rollover light inserts up by Ned? I didn't see any star switches in the inserts. Never seen this in a pin. Neat.

I noticed those. They're similar to the ones on my Jolly Ride...

1606137996380515408887 (resized).jpg
#13541 56 days ago

Looks good to me.

17968516-D634-43C7-B1BF-3CDBF4B67EE0 (resized).jpeg
13
#13542 56 days ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Looks good to me.
[quoted image]

The arcade version looks best, imo.

It's even missing the ego credits at the bottom of the translite.

#13543 56 days ago

Yeah, Looks like they took some feedback and made the corners rounder on the pinbar and added the wraparound back glass to the lower end model. Smart.

That said, this is final proof that JPop is a hack. Gameplay seems like The Phantom Menace - all stop and watch. Nothing to do.

Anyway I hope I get a chance to see one someday and give it a go. It looks good, it sure would be nice if it played like it looks.

#13544 56 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

If you go solderless at coils that’s definitely no bueno.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

So who doesn’t use solderless connectors? I’ve never seen one unless it’s an absolute hack.

JJP tried using spade connectors on coils in early WoZ games. I don't think they did that for very long before they simply switched to soldered connections. All the vibration shakes them loose sooner or later. Inline connectors are a better alternative if you absolutely need to have a way to disconnect and remove an assembly.

25
#13545 56 days ago

I like the look of the game and i am one of the few that thinks the theme is good (seriously, i like it). i can never and would never get a machine that i need to make monthly payments to keep it up to date. all the other monthly crap pulling from my wallet the last thing i need is to worry about a pinball update payment. just can't

#13546 56 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

The arcade version looks best, imo.
It's even missing the ego credits at the bottom of the translite.

No way! I didn't even notice that. The ego credits did bother me. Good eye, love the arcade version even more now!

#13547 56 days ago
Quoted from zenbone:

I like the look of the game and i am one of the few that thinks the theme is good (seriously, i like it). i can never and would never get a machine that i need to make monthly payments to keep it up to date. all the other monthly crap pulling from my wallet the last thing i need is to worry about a pinball update payment. just can't

And $50 a month to boot! With a 1 year minimum subscription. Imagine they only had 2 updates in that year.

#13548 56 days ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

JJP tried using spade connectors on coils in early WoZ games. I don't think they did that for very long before they simply switched to soldered connections. All the vibration shakes them loose sooner or later. Inline connectors are a better alternative if you absolutely need to have a way to disconnect and remove an assembly.

Agreed. I know some still don’t like those as they are technically another failure point, but those seem pretty reliable. I have never had to repin those.

#13549 56 days ago

deeproot seems very keen on brining many of the latest trends of video games to the pinball industry. It's no longer about selling a game. It's about creating a service, tracking engagement, and new long term revenue streams. I can't wait till they announce microtransaction based loot boxes, but don't worry... it'll only be cosmetic

Until then, let's talk FUD about a season pass. What sort of content will you be getting? What should a user expect in terms of amount of content and release schedule? What happens to the content/records when the sub ends? What if I sub years later? Will content be temporal/seasonal or other restrictions on availability? How many years of planned updates are expected? After all planned updates are finished, can I just make a one time purchase for all the content or do I have to maintain a sub? What happens several years down the road, is all this content just gone when deeproot dies?

I can trust Stern to be around for a several years into the future. I can't really say that about many others. And none of them are asking for money in promise of products later (be it a pinball machine or software DLC)

20
#13550 56 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

That poor game has no flow at all. There's a ball going up and down bouncing against whatever it finds on the way.

Shh! You're not supposed to notice that. Look how awesome the cabinet and backglass look!

Here's hoping future DR games made by real designers can wow us in the with this sweet cabinet AND good gameplay which is all that matters in pinball.

RE: DLC and "Pinball as service" well that's probably how he sold this to investors. Software as service/services is how MS and Apple broke the trillion $ market cap barrier. It's the future way corporations plan to bleed us dry.

Let's face it Pinheads did this to themselves by proving there's nothing too stupid they won't buy. $5k couch pieces, $800 flat plastic toppers, rugs...

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