I may be in the minority, but I think the whole thing looks stupid. Just my humble opinion. I expected way cooler from Jpop, from the beginning hype!
After all this time.....and money.....did I mention the time?
Sad.
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Olathe, KS
After all this drama it all comes down to price. If it is $5-$6k they sell 100s if it is $8k they sell 10s. I am a potential buyer but it just depends on what they are asking for it.
This game looks boring as hell. After all the design hype and team work, this is all they have? Yuck. The right half of the playfield is pretty much blocked by stuff. Shots look extremely poorly thought out. Don't see any way to identify, shoot, or complete modes. May be there is more to come on modes - but come on - this is terrible!
Quoted from noitbe1:It seems that the main toy shake and that’s about it and then... we have « cyclone » wheel.
You’re right, I lowered my expectations anyhow but it’s even below what I was expecting for that.
Maybe, the lack of toys is a cost saving for having a costly pinbar... which I’m not a fan.
J0OP is the king of pre production box o' lights. Production is where the steel meets the wood, so to speak
Quoted from wrb1977:What are your thoughts on the Pinbar and how it can enhance the pinball experience? To me, it does not take away from the magic that is pinball, and will only enhance the overall experience and replace an archaic menu, testing, and user interface. The possibilities are exciting!
I feel the opposite. Any gain in menus, testing and user interface would be for the operator and not the player. I was actually cringing while watching the video and hearing them try to justify this as making pinball better to the player. I guess it is yet another case of "to each their own". To me the system menus could easily have been accomplished by a mouse or touch pad on a cable or bluetooth inside the coin door and just use the screen on the backbox. IMO the pinpad is a game stopper and belongs on a pinball machine even less than the camera on every JJP games does. I know people who don't even like an action button on the lock bar let alone having a touch screen. Pinball is about a rolling ball and getting away from video games and cell phones, not integrating them...
At least the pinpad does give the players a nice place to rest their drink or beer and catch any spills, which is yet another reason this will never catch on with operators.
Quoted from toyotaboy:So my thoughts
4. That display in the backbox just kills me, even more so seeing it on a typical multi-window stream. I can't stand redundancy for no reason whatsoever in design. If anything it should be the complete opposite, each feature should have multiple functions.
I couldn't agree with you more. Why have two screens? I know the Pinbar is going to be used for Ball Save, and diagnostics, but the majority of the time it was just displaying what the backbox display was already showing. Why do I need to see the same thing twice? I really think the ball was dropped here. DR had an opportunity to display different perspectives on each display, or provide full video in the backbox, while providing instructions to the player on the Pinbar. Using it as a duplicate screen got old fast for me.
Quoted from dgarrett:This game looks boring as hell. After all the design hype and team work, this is all they have? Yuck. The right half of the playfield is pretty much blocked by stuff. Shots look extremely poorly thought out. Don't see any way to identify, shoot, or complete modes. May be there is more to come on modes - but come on - this is terrible!
Pinball rule #1.
Need to actually play it - to make decision. So many people have said game looks great but it sucks OR just the opposite too!!
Quoted from jonesjb:Did anyone see a successful ramp shot from the right flipper?
Yes lots of times.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Yes lots of times.
The right? I saw lots of shots from the left, but don’t recall the right.
Quoted from cpr9999:Pinball rule #1.
Need to actually play it - to make decision. So many people have said game looks great but it sucks OR just the opposite too!!
Yeah buddy lmao !
Quoted from jonesjb:Two gameplay concerns:
-It looks like the ramp isn't makable from the right flipper due to the geometry. Did anyone see a successful ramp shot from the right flipper?
-It looks to be a very defensive game with a couple of close brick shots (such as the rubber on right side of the ramp.
Very big concern. First thing I look for are backhands. If they're not there, the game is considered cursed and unplayable. Someone burn that game before the pope realizes that there is no backhand for the ramp. Jpop's done it again, that rascal!
Quoted from nwpinball:You know though that a lot of people are going to love those nods to those games, which are still all pretty popular and we love nostalgia in pinball. We love when a Williams cow appears in games, we love a new Black Knight with callbacks to the games before it, we love revamped versions of MM, AFM and MB, we are always clamoring for mods and updates to old games or new games in a series. I personally dig that stuff, I dunno about the rest of you.
Nods to the past are great, but Cyclone's ferris wheel became boring after 10 times back in the 80s. They could have at least recycled something fun...
Quoted from chuckwurt:Yes lots of times.
Yeah, the ramp went from a turd to a pretty strong point. It diverts nicely, and the bail is pretty nice too. I didn't watch a ton, so maybe there are even more exits, Jpop style? The game looks way better than what I expected, and that pic of the lit up wrap-around is stunning. The movie credits on the tranz are cringy. I also know I'll hate that damned ferris wheel - last comment about it. I promise 
Quoted from jonesjb:The right? I saw lots of shots from the left, but don’t recall the right.
Yes. I saw plenty of right flipper backhands. Watch the stream from the beginning.
Reguardless ,Deeproot is almost on the map ! I actually like the fact where they announced the games on the horizon .Kinda gives a pinhead a little insight to if they want to jump on a new release or wait on a grail pin (Goonies)! I also like people who don’t give up and with the backlash they have taken makes me root for them even more ! Whatever side your on with deeproot you at least have to admit if they succeed we would have at least 7 pinball company’s churning out pins annually !!! If I would have told you that in 2010 how would have you reacted ? Be safe to all ,this hobby/sport is in good hands !
I liked the pin. TOTANish ramps that had some flowin shots and some Cirqus PF throwbacks and some new stuff. I’m not sure about the pinbar. Why it looks cool and has some good admin stuff, the pinball features seemed to be disctracting and stopping the flow of gameplay. I’ll have to play one to know for sure but looks good to me and a contender.
Quoted from m00nmuppet:Do other pinball machines have those little dot lights along the side? I'm trying to remember. It makes it look weirdly cheap. And would there be a way to disable the obnoxious gameplay stop-start of the pinbar inputs? Layout is so-so. For a company that was going to eat the competition alive, they're below American Pinball at the moment. Hot Wheels is better than this. However, I thought the female presenter was charmingly enthusiastic.
Dots are because they put pinstadiums on it? Strange decision....
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Dots are because they put pinstadiums on it? Strange decision....
Even pinstadium added a diffuser to fix this issue to a very simple problem 
Helsinki
I like the pinbar and the backglass. It seems like the DR machines have first real innovative developments for pinball machines, while atleast one of the major manufacturers' has mostly concentrated on raising prices of pins year after year and coming up with cost-saving features like a single standup-targets, no real lockdown bar, worse cabinet wood and so on. Hopefully the prices for DR machines remain in some moderate level for the average pinconsumer. Competition is good, bring it on DR!
After watching the stream, the pinbar is definitely a waste of engineering hours.
The only thing I really thought was neat about the game was the different ways the ramp could go. I thought that was cool.
Did the comet wheel have the same stickers on it as in comet? They looked like it.
London
I erased all the history in my mind and because I love Steve and wanted this to be a great game.
but sadly but from a ball and flippers this was a complete fail from my point of view.
Code/rules - none
Shots - bricky with a floaty rattly return. very little "kinetic satisfaction" there was no shot that made me think, mmm tasty,
Light show, sorry but after the recent shows on GNR, AIQ, Turtles this was very lacking in my view and the pinstadium did nothing but highlight how poor those plastic Ramps look, imagine them as rails...
couldn't really gauge the quality of the sound but some of the music felt too repetitive.
pinbar, felt like a big distraction and alot of it seemed the same as on the DMD - still looks like torture for your hands.
cabinet, looks nice but thats not what sells game.
Won't buy this until I've played it but I'd say deeproot have built a game for the 90's when the rest of the world has moved on using top players to design games and having a multi-dimensional rule set and real satisfaction on shots.
Neil.
The poor audio didn't help the stream. The issue with the game is after all the time and effort, you wonder how this is all they got. Not bad IMO, but Hot Wheels, GNR, Avengers all seem more immersive and developed, with a lot less time and $$$ to get to market. If they released this four years ago, we might be saying, hey pretty good, Pinbar is not a bad idea, cool hi res on the BG screen, etc.
Now it just seems like, "Really, that's it?"
Lets face it. You will never get good unbiased information from this thread or anywhere on Pinside regarding this game or DR in general. Most here made up their minds long ago. Nothing but hate for DR here on Pinside and that won't change no matter how well they do. Anyone actually taking this garbage information spewed here is making a big mistake. Pinside regarding DR is sorta like watching CNN for real news... it just doesn't happen. What a joke Pinside and many of its members have become.
Good luck to DR! And anyone seriously interested in getting real unbiased information about them should log off Pinside immediately and check other (much more reliable) sources.
Quoted from teekee:check other (much more reliable) sources.
Where do you recommend?
Quoted from chuckwurt:Where do you recommend?
Pinball network as that’s not in any manufactures pocket. Oh wait.....
Quoted from ReadyPO:Now it just seems like, "Really, that's it?"
If this was 2014 and John brought this RAZA to Expo (instead of empty cabinets) I think we'd be pretty happy. It still wouldn't have been game of the show (that was the same year as the big Lebowski reveal), but zidware customers would have been happy.
But it's 6 years later, and millions of dollars later.
Paris
Quoted from DS_Nadine:It has a ferris wheel, a roto target, a side moving „goalie“ target, that ned mold above it with animated guns and shaking, that two way tower ramp, two magnets, that spinning floating disc toy, multiple molds...
You cant see it all due to the overhead perspective.
Thanks. Ok i missed those. Ok not that bad but nothing revolutionary. I have to be honest: the game is stunning. With the cabinet: you put it anywhere and it will bring people to pay and give it a try.
They need to improve the software and the mechanics and they need this time to focus on that if they plan to sell this anytime soon.
AND stop focusing only on this pinbar. THIS IS PiNBALL the subject.
Quoted from teekee:Lets face it. You will never get good unbiased information from this thread or anywhere on Pinside regarding this game or DR in general. Most here made up their minds long ago. Nothing but hate for DR here on Pinside and that won't change no matter how well they do. Anyone actually taking this garbage information spewed here is making a big mistake. Pinside regarding DR is sorta like watching CNN for real news... it just doesn't happen. What a joke Pinside and many of its members have become.
Good luck to DR! And anyone seriously interested in getting real unbiased information about them should log off Pinside immediately and check other (much more reliable) sources.
Imagine if deeproot had made the new Guns N Roses .
With the ability to play people over the internet , the amazing light rails and articulating spotlights , new ball sensor technology , over the top theme integration such as symbols on the pop bumpers and drumstick ramp , a camera that puts you in the crowd during a concert and takes a selfie of you with Slash , more assets than you can poke a stick at , amazing graphics and immersive modes and gameplay , to name just some of the features .
Raza gives you a theme no one cares about , average gameplay and the only Innovation is the pinbar , which doesn't seem to add a lot .
If DR made GNR lots of pinsiders would have been forced or happy to change their opinion . There's no denying how much has been put into that pin . Raza is average at best , the proof will be in the sales .
With theme being everything these days , I don't see a lot of sales in the next few titles for DR .
If they had spent their money on more popular titles like The Goonies instead of the pin bar I think they would be in lot better position now .
Quoted from teekee:Lets face it. You will never get good unbiased information from this thread or anywhere on Pinside regarding this game or DR in general. Most here made up their minds long ago. Nothing but hate for DR here on Pinside and that won't change no matter how well they do. Anyone actually taking this garbage information spewed here is making a big mistake. Pinside regarding DR is sorta like watching CNN for real news... it just doesn't happen. What a joke Pinside and many of its members have become.
Good luck to DR! And anyone seriously interested in getting real unbiased information about them should log off Pinside immediately and check other (much more reliable) sources.
Some critics are constructive and not everyone want them to fail. I personally don’t. It’s interesting to discuss about what they miss. Sometimes it’s really like they were imprisoned for years without any interests of where the market is going to competitors doing.
I don’t think RAZA fail, it looks amazing. They have a shot to rectify what’s wrong but they may hurry a bit...
I’m one of the goodwill recipients. At this point after 9 years from when I first gave Jpop my initial $700 deposit, I just want a game I can play, or sell. I was anticipating a total shitshow last night, but despite the horribly done stream, I got a little hope.
The game looks playable. The music, sounds and small amount of call outs we heard sounded great. The Pinbar at this point seem superfluous, but has promise in my view. My biggest problem is the state of the code, and the overall appearance that deeproot as a company is disorganized and chaotic. I heard several times that the modes need to be purchased in “the store” with tickets you earn in the game. I have lots of questions about the gameplay and code that maybe others can answer who also saw the stream.
Putting aside the intelligence of the decision to force the player to stop playing the actual pinball game to make a videogame-like “purchase” of a mode in a virtual store, why was this most basic feature not yet coded? Or did the players last night not understand how to accomplish this, or never earn enough tickets? Likewise completing the ZOMBIE letters. Didn’t we hear this starts multi balls? Why didn’t we see any? Why did Steve Bowden not demo some of these rules? Are the basic features of modes and multi balls not yet coded? Is this still just a box of lights? Why when asked about the rules why did Steve say “you figure it out” to one of the players? Is it my imagination, or did he seem frustrated and like he didn’t want to be there?
I feel hopeful, but all these nagging questions, and about 100 others, persist.
Quoted from doghouse:I’m one of the goodwill recipients. At this point after 9 years from when I first gave Jpop my initial $700 deposit, I just want a game I can play, or sell. I was anticipating a total shitshow last night, but despite the horribly done stream, I got a little hope.
The game looks playable. The music, sounds and small amount of call outs we heard sounded great. The Pinbar at this point seem superfluous, but has promise in my view. My biggest problem is the state of the code, and the overall appearance that deeproot as a company is disorganized and chaotic. I heard several times that the modes need to be purchased in “the store” with tickets you earn in the game. I have lots of questions about the gameplay and code that maybe others can answer who also saw the stream.
Putting aside the intelligence of the decision to force the player to stop playing the actual pinball game to make a videogame-like “purchase” of a mode in a virtual store, why was this most basic feature not yet coded? Or did the players last night not understand how to accomplish this, or never earn enough tickets? Likewise completing the ZOMBIE letters. Didn’t we hear this starts multi balls? Why didn’t we see any? Why did Steve Bowden not demo some of these rules? Are the basic features of modes and multi balls not yet coded? Is this still just a box of lights? Why when asked about the rules why did Steve say “you figure it out” to one of the players? Is it my imagination, or did he seem frustrated and like he didn’t want to be there?
I feel hopeful, but all these nagging questions, and about 100 others, persist.
The lack of modes and multi balls is what struck me , it just seemd so repetitive the whole time , that's why I just got into reading the messages in chat .
Köln
I definitely like what I see here. Cool ramp, very interesting ball movements, pops have lots of space around them, cool toys, unusual layout. Colors and graphics are very appealing. I really like the theme. Would go well next to my Cyclone. I will be very curious to learn more about the rules. I want to understand the inner workings, repairabiliy, etc. better. I’d say it‘s been worth the wait.
I guess the jury is still out on the pinbar. Might be overkill, but seeing as more and more household appliances have a touch display, why not on a pinball machine? I‘d rather spend money on that than on a topper or on painted armour.
Quoted from cpr9999:Pinball rule #1.
Need to actually play it - to make decision. So many people have said game looks great but it sucks OR just the opposite too!!
Don't need to play this one. You can see this is a hot mess and after so much delay, this is it ?
About the only thing I thought looked fair to decent were some of the animations.
Still not sold on the pinbar. No thanks. That's a waste and if that's where a bunch of time was spent, it was time wasted that should have went elsewhere. Not needed and not wanted.
Production Line ????????? - Probably will not be necessary. I still don't see this getting off the ground.
If this were the Pinball Builders Fair best I could do is award a participation ribbon or trophy.
Seems pretty awesome to me. Collecting tickets to then purchase modes in the Atomic Shop is a neat way to start modes. The art looks really cool. The Pinbar seems really awesome too. Small sample size but I showed a clip of the stream to my wife, brothers and their wives(not giant pinheads but they do play pinball) and they all loved the Pinbar. Especially the player select screen and how you can select you own skill shot. It definitely comes down to gameplay and its hard to judge something Ive never flipped before. Guess Ill have to wait and see but so far I'm really liking it.
Quoted from teekee:Lets face it. You will never get good unbiased information from this thread or anywhere on Pinside regarding this game or DR in general. Most here made up their minds long ago. Nothing but hate for DR here on Pinside and that won't change no matter how well they do. Anyone actually taking this garbage information spewed here is making a big mistake. Pinside regarding DR is sorta like watching CNN for real news... it just doesn't happen. What a joke Pinside and many of its members have become.
Good luck to DR! And anyone seriously interested in getting real unbiased information about them should log off Pinside immediately and check other (much more reliable) sources.
LOL! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Take the above statement and substitute DR with CGC and you described yourself from a few years ago perfectly. In fact you might have understated things considering the crusade you went on blasting garbage information on everything to do with the CGC "refakes".
Can't really comment on the gameplay as the stream was hard to follow and the voice over by one person in particular was painful but I think the machine looks gorgeous. Great to see some changes including the pinbar.
Anyone willing to mix it up, I'm all for. Jury still out though for sure.
Quoted from delt31:Can't really comment on the gameplay as the stream was hard to follow and the voice over by one person in particular was painful but I think the machine looks gorgeous. Great to see some changes including the pinbar.
Anyone willing to mix it up, I'm all for. Jury still out though for sure.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought it was painful to watch. However I don't blame Fliptronics because they just stream pinball and are not the marketing department for Deeproot. You would think with all the money Robert has they would have had a better setup. It appeared based on the poor video quality they were using WIFI because I never see poor video quality like that from deadflip or flipnout streams. The pinbar does look pretty neat and there is potential there.
I'll add one more comment about redundancy. There's clearly a "PLAY" button on the pinbar to shoot the ball (because there's an auto-launcher), yet there's a shooter rod (which is typically kept for skill shots) but there doesn't seem to BE a skillshot. The ball loops over and dumps right into the playfield, so what's the point of having a shooter rod? They were so adamant about removing the start button, why not keep it clean and also not have a shooter rod.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I'll add one more comment about redundancy. There's clearly a "PLAY" button on the pinbar to shoot the ball (because there's an auto-launcher), yet there's a shooter rod (which is typically kept for skill shots) but there doesn't seem to BE a skillshot. The ball loops over and dumps right into the playfield, so what's the point of having a shooter rod? They were so adamant about removing the start button, why not keep it clean and also not have a shooter rod.
Need a deep dive to answer that question.
Had a blast! Played it for an hour this morning! Modes/rewards are cool and selectable from the pin bar after you qualify with enough tickets. Coaster ramp feels great, Zombie target is difficult but rewarding. Ball save chances are on the pin bar. Hopefully, I can play it some more later. Don't knock it until you try it!
Quoted from delt31:Anyone willing to mix it up, I'm all for. Jury still out though for sure.
One thing that has grown on me for sure is the backbox. The setup they came up with makes the game look great overall. Part of my love to the old EM games is the art on the backglass. The key here on RAZA is the short, wide LCD that they use allows for the wrap around backglass to be huge and maximize the impact of the artwork. DR definitely nailed this compared to Stern, American, Spooky and especially JJP. The LCD on JJP games is way too big and limits the translite into basically a marquee.
As stated before I am not a fan of the touchscreen or the first impression of the gameplay, but to me the real advancement here is finally finding the proper size and shape LCD for pinball back box. The creativity of the wrap around backglass is made possible by it.
That was the biggest train wreck I have ever tried to watch! I just couldn’t watch it, I fast forwarded several times hoping it would get better, but it did not. Deeproot continues to look amateurish with everything they do. There is no way they produce this game! The only thing I got out of that stream was they need more investor money. On a positive note, they fixed the ramp shot, but unfortunately that is the only interesting element related to game play and it cannot save this game........The layout is boring and uninspiring. So much time, energy and money spent on things that have nothing to do with game play. I wouldn’t touch this game with a ten foot pole. So sad as I really wanted them to succeed.
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