Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from Fytr:Was anything new shown during the virtual Expo? I wasn't keeping up....
Yeah man! They revealed that there was going to be a reveal in the future.
Does it get any better then that? A double reveal. Poopadiuk style.
QSS
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:Yeah man! They revealed that there was going to be a reveal in the future.
Does it get any better then that? A double reveal. Poopadiuk style.
QSS
Wait, I thought they revealed that there was going to be a reveal of an upcoming reveal?!?!
Well no reveal will match JJP and GNR.
People can trash Chicago Coin for delays but they have made machines before at least. Completing and updating incomplete code making new mechanisms for production takes time. Likely they are much closer to production than Deep Root.
That being said...I root for more companies and more games as a consumer we all benefit.
I got bored with the radio silence so I did a little checking. I thought they were operating with $32.2 million but it would seem that Deeproot has raised $44.9 million in two offerings. All of it back in 2015. First round was the $32.2 million in September 2015 that has been commonly discussed here. Then in December of 2015, a second round raised an additional $12.7 million.
$44.9 million, here's the link where I got that info: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/deeproot-tech/company_financials
Its been five years with no apparent income. I'm just hoping there is enough gas in the tank for the Goodwill people to get their games.
Quoted from wamonkey:Well no reveal will match JJP and GNR.
People can trash Chicago Coin for delays but they have made machines before at least. Completing and updating incomplete code making new mechanisms for production takes time. Likely they are much closer to production than Deep Root.
That being said...I root for more companies and more games as a consumer we all benefit.
Wow, now you have me interested in the next game from Chicago Coin. Hope it’s another basketball game.
Quoted from Yelobird:Wow, now you have me interested in the next game from Chicago Coin. Hope it’s another basketball game.
(giggle, snort)
Quoted from Mr68:I got bored with the radio silence so I did a little checking. I thought they were operating with $32.2 million but it would seem that Deeproot has raised $44.9 million in two offerings. All of it back in 2015. First round was the $32.2 million in September 2015 that has been commonly discussed here. Then in December of 2015, a second round raised an additional $12.7 million.
$44.9 million, here's the link where I got that info: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/deeproot-tech/company_financials
Its been five years with no apparent income. I'm just hoping there is enough gas in the tank for the Goodwill people to get their games.
Well I mean, no income from pinball anyway. Supposedly the studios work on other digital projects but who knows what the income (if any) is. But again, every business model is based on ROI. It's fuzzy what deeproot has actually spent developing the "pinball division", but best guess over the past 3-4 years is likely well over 20 million at this point. Even if you make $2k profit on every game, you have to sell 10k machines just to make up for all the investment. Those are Stern numbers (for a company focused on mostly unlicensed titles for the first few runs).
Quoted from toyotaboy:Well I mean, no income from pinball anyway. Supposedly the studios work on other digital projects but who knows what the income (if any) is.
I thought the studios were closed.
Quoted from toyotaboy:It's fuzzy what deeproot has actually spent developing the "pinball division", but best guess over the past 3-4 years is likely well over 20 million at this point.
Your guess is a good as mine but as more time passes the deeper the hole they're digging. Do you guys remember all of the lavish spending and financial bragging they did in the early years? Then came the quiet closing of the Utah division and snice then its been all Popadiuk and Garfunkel songs.
Front loaded, extravagant spending and over confidence is an amateur business mistake. Especially from those that obtain large amounts of *other peoples money. This is often followed by, betting on the come, another mistake.
Quoted from Mr68:I was hoping for some in Haiku
Haiku :
Deep Root not today
Not to make a game at all
It will go away
Quoted from ufotofu:A really rich guy
with way more dollars than sense
wasted all our time
Obnoxious buffoon
pissed away money not his
behold the Pinbar
You all from afar,
Can view the Pinbar,
Being square and angled,
You know it's new fangled,
What it will provide,
Will mystify your eyes,
The screen that you touch,
Will have you feel much,
The good old days,
Now have parted ways,
The future is here,
And deeproot is near.
Quoted from toyotaboy:every business model is based on ROI
That's just not true though. The world of venture backed businesses seems to go clear over a lot of people's heads here.
The goal for any VC backed startup is NOT profit!! In fact if you were profitable, your investors would be pissed. That means you are not growing fast enough.
The goal for VC backed startups is growth, and to dominate a category (like pinball). Look at Uber, Amazon or thousands of others as an example. Uber is still not profitable and they are a publically traded company. But guess what!?? All of the early investors and employees made a shit load of money. That's the game. Robert pitched this business model the same way that a technology startup would have.
I am not saying that I think deeproot is on the right track ( I believe that they will fail), I just get tired of seeing people talk about how they are not making a profit as if that was their current goal, or their investor's goal. IT'S NOT! The goal is growth (and yes, deeproot is failing at this with not delivering a single game). If this goes over your head, do some research into how VC backed startups operate. I'll say it again, profit is not a goal at this stage!! Growth first. Profit comes later.
Quoted from pinlink:That's just not true though. The world of venture backed businesses seems to go clear over a lot of people's heads here.
The goal for any VC backed startup is NOT profit!! In fact if you were profitable, your investors would be pissed. That means you are not growing fast enough.
The goal for VC backed startups is growth, and to dominate a category (like pinball). Look at Uber, Amazon or thousands of others as an example. Uber is still not profitable and they are a publically traded company. But guess what!?? All of the early investors and employees made a shit load of money. That's the game. Robert pitched this business model the same way that a technology startup would have.
I am not saying that I think deeproot is on the right track ( I believe that they will fail), I just get tired of seeing people talk about how they are not making a profit as if that was their current goal, or their investor's goal. IT'S NOT! The goal is growth (and yes, deeproot is failing at this with not delivering a single game). If this goes over your head, do some research into how VC backed startups operate. I'll say it again, profit is not a goal at this stage!! Growth first. Profit comes later.
I also get that new businesses are in the red in the beginning. But startups usually startup faster than 3 years though. If you were an investor and didn't see a single product go out during that time, when would your patience run out?
Quoted from pinlink:That's just not true though. The world of venture backed businesses seems to go clear over a lot of people's heads here.
The goal for any VC backed startup is NOT profit!! In fact if you were profitable, your investors would be pissed. That means you are not growing fast enough.
The goal for VC backed startups is growth, and to dominate a category (like pinball). Look at Uber, Amazon or thousands of others as an example. Uber is still not profitable and they are a publically traded company. But guess what!?? All of the early investors and employees made a shit load of money. That's the game. Robert pitched this business model the same way that a technology startup would have.
I am not saying that I think deeproot is on the right track ( I believe that they will fail), I just get tired of seeing people talk about how they are not making a profit as if that was their current goal, or their investor's goal. IT'S NOT! The goal is growth (and yes, deeproot is failing at this with not delivering a single game). If this goes over your head, do some research into how VC backed startups operate. I'll say it again, profit is not a goal at this stage!! Growth first. Profit comes later.
That's like the worst Haiku ever.
Quoted from pinlink:The goal for VC backed startups is growth, and to dominate a category (like pinball). Look at Uber, Amazon or thousands of others as an example. Uber is still not profitable and they are a publically traded company. But guess what!?? All of the early investors and employees made a shit load of money. That's the game. Robert pitched this business model the same way that a technology startup would have.
OMG this is what is wrong with the business world. Pinball is not a software startup. It can’t be. Unlike software where you have large margins and huge markets, pinball requires you to make physical things and the margins are smaller. The cost benefit is linear; it’s not like you build a product and then every sale over X is gravy like it is in software.
Quoted from toyotaboy:But startups usually startup faster than 3 years though
Oh man I totally disagree. I come from the world of tech startups and that would be impressive. Look I am not defending DR here, just pointing out that people need to chill out with the "THEY AREN'T MAKING A PROFIT" talk.
I agree that 3 years is a long time to not have a product ready for a pinball company, but the profit talk is what makes no sense.
This was pitched as a Technology startup to the investors. Not a pinball company.
Quoted from Richthofen:OMG this is what is wrong with the business world. Pinball is not a software startup. It can’t be. Unlike software where you have large margins and huge markets, pinball requires you to make physical things and the margins are smaller. The cost benefit is linear; it’s not like you build a product and then every sale over X is gravy like it is in software.
I agree, Rich, but it's how it was pitched to the investors. And I will tell you from experience that there are some VERY gullible investors out there just looking for something to throw their cash at.
Robert has convinced the investors that he can dominate the pinball category with all of these new and badass innovations that they are working on. They just need time to get them right. We all know how far these "innovations" will take them, but these are rich kids who don't do their homework when deciding what to do with their money. They were probably impressed with a shitty powerpoint Robert put together.
Quoted from pinlink:I agree, Rich, but it's how it was pitched to the investors. And I will tell you from experience that there are some VERY gullible investors out there just looking for something to throw their cash at.
Robert has convinced the investors that he can dominate the pinball category with all of these new and badass innovations that they are working on. They just need time to get them right. We all know how far these "innovations" will take them, but these are rich kids who don't do their homework when deciding what to do with their money. They were probably impressed with a shitty powerpoint Robert put together.
Hi-
Could you please introduce me to your gullible investor friends?
I have an awesome bridge building startup company to pitch to them.
Quoted from RCA1:Hi-
Could you please introduce me to your gullible investor friends?
I have an awesome bridge building startup company to pitch to them.
And I also would like a chance at the sharks...I have an awesome Haiku thread about Deeproot I'm wanting to start..a whole separate thread with tons of potential
Quoted from benheck:And the people bowed and prayed
To the fake neon charade
But Ben flashed out his warning
With his words on Pinside each morning
And his post said "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, Bob's button was pushed"
And whispered in the sounds... of deeproot
Just one word about the future of Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland: plastics.
Quoted from NoQuarters:Haiku #3
Deeproot in Deep poop
Zidware Circus repeated
Shipping No Pin ball
Ok here’s one back John:
Haiku #1
Refreshing and innovative NOT
The world welcomes me NOT
Pinball is easy NOT
One more to consider:
Haiku #2
Simple and innovative for all
A pinball voyage for the ages
A crash of historical proportions
Quoted from Mr68:I got bored with the radio silence so I did a little checking. I thought they were operating with $32.2 million but it would seem that Deeproot has raised $44.9 million in two offerings. All of it back in 2015. First round was the $32.2 million in September 2015 that has been commonly discussed here. Then in December of 2015, a second round raised an additional $12.7 million.
$44.9 million, here's the link where I got that info: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/deeproot-tech/company_financials
Its been five years with no apparent income. I'm just hoping there is enough gas in the tank for the Goodwill people to get their games.
I think at today's P/E ratios they would only have to make 1 million in revenue a year at that investment level to make their investors happy.
My last one....Haiku 3
Eat, sleep, play pinball
Design, engineer, manufacturer pinball
Start, stop, do over again & again
Quoted from pinlink:I agree, Rich, but it's how it was pitched to the investors. And I will tell you from experience that there are some VERY gullible investors out there just looking for something to throw their cash at.
Robert has convinced the investors that he can dominate the pinball category with all of these new and badass innovations that they are working on. They just need time to get them right. We all know how far these "innovations" will take them, but these are rich kids who don't do their homework when deciding what to do with their money. They were probably impressed with a shitty powerpoint Robert put together.
The only innovation that can make pinball scalable is on the production side, reusable designs, reusable code, automation on the assembly line. What can scale pinball is everywhere but on the playfield.
Once one see the first DR game it's easy to see that their business is not more scalable than any of their competitors.
Can someone please explain what these words on this DR marketing page mean?
F640864E-BD39-47B0-B29D-757200658B41 (resized).jpeg
BACK AT “THE ATOMIC SHOP” …
The Mechanic continues his spiel about his shop and is preparing to introduce another item that he thinks The Player would want to buy. The Player takes a look at the rest of the Adventureland area and has realized something very peculiar… even more peculiar than the events that have happened already. Nothing that is outside of the Atomic Shop is moving, at least nothing that The Player can see at the moment.
As The Player begins to take a step outside of the Atomic Shop, everything slowly starts to move again, including the park patrons attempting to run away, the zombies, and the invaders! Quickly, The Player steps back inside where they were before, and instantly, everything else stops moving again.
THE PLAYER
If I escape here alive, I will not be able to explain ANY of this to ANYONE! Especially what I just witnessed right now!
THE MECHANIC
What? What do you mean? Why did you walk away just now while I was enlightening you with some important information? And then you just stepped back in here … May I continue my pitch now?
The Player realizes that The Mechanic may not know about this whole time-stopping, freezing thing that just happened. Maybe they have time-stopping powers now? Or, possibly this is just part of the giant hallucination they’ve been having. Regardless, The Player is keeping what they just experienced to themselves for now.
THE MECHANIC
OK, here is the next, super fantastic item for you to buy!
This item will increase The Player’s Bonus multiplier by 2.
When the Player has selected this item with the Pinbar, it will look like this.
THE MECHANIC
This one does twice what the first item did, but it will cost you only 15 tickets, not 20. Isn’t that a great bargain?!
THE PLAYER
Now wait a minute! Is there going to be another one that says 3X Bonus?!
THE MECHANIC
Well … maaaaaaaybe.
THE PLAYER
And then another one for 4X Bonus?!
THE MECHANIC
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
THE PLAYER
Why not?!
THE MECHANIC
Haven’t you heard of the “rule of three”?
THE PLAYER
RULE OF –WHAT?! OK, wait, hold on a second. I have to ask you the classic, gaming shopkeeper question, so forgive me if you’ve heard this one before, but this question is EXTREMELY relevant right now. If you don’t like NED, and you don’t want him to take over, why not just give me these items for free?
THE MECHANIC
No, I said that I don’t care who wins. I’m playing both sides of this invasion, but at least I’m being honest to you about that … as far as you know. Anyway, I’ve seen that tickets are a valuable form of currency in this world. People buy things with them. I saw that you have a lot of them, and I’ll bet you know ways to get more.
THE PLAYER (thinking to themselves)
(Well, I am pretty good at getting tickets.)
THE MECHANIC
I want those tickets so I can spend them on whatever else is here on this planet. But, I’d rather not do whatever work it must take to get them, and I don’t want to blow my cover. So you go get more tickets and bring them here. I’ll sell you things that will help you stop the invasion without letting anyone know I’m helping you. NED has no idea at all that my Atomic Shop exists. If he happens to win this battle, I’ll totally betray you and deny everything … probably.
THE PLAYER
I clearly have no reason to trust you at all, but what else do you have? Hopefully, you’ve got a weapon here somewhere.
Little did The Player know that a weapon is available. But it’s a weapon that functions in a decidedly different way.
*Note: Atomic Shop item prices are subject to change.
Quoted from spinal:Can someone please explain what these words on this DR marketing page mean?
Strikes me as a ‘make work’ project.
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Deeproot's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Quoted from RCA1:Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
Quoting Shakespeare now, ok here are a few:
“Deeproot, You speak an infinite deal of nothing.”
“These violent delights have violent ends
And in their triump die, like fire and powder”
and of course,
"To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more;"
Quoted from spinal:Can someone please explain what these words on this DR marketing page mean?
This is the second post explaining the in-game mechanics to exchange game currency for rewards.
Instead of stating bluntly how many tickets you need for each reward, they wrap it in the game story.
When they made Steve head of story, I did not expect it would extend to the manual and marketing material.
I like a pinball that tells a story, so I'm curious what the result will be during game play.
Quoted from spinal:As The Player begins to take a step outside of the Atomic Shop, everything slowly starts to move again, including the park patrons attempting to run away, the zombies, and the invaders! Quickly, The Player steps back inside where they were before, and instantly, everything else stops moving again.
So the game comes to a screeching halt whenever they want you to use the PinBar. As I expected.
Also that dialog is terrible. Seriously it's like a 3rd grader wrote it.
Quoted from benheck:So the game comes to a screeching halt whenever they want you to use the PinBar. As I expected.
Also that dialog is terrible. Seriously it's like a 3rd grader wrote it.
Yeah but least us shit players can now just buy a good score 
Game of skill?? nah game of who buys the most multipliers 
Quoted from spinal:Can someone please explain what these words on this DR marketing page mean?
[quoted image]
Reads like a vertical slice from a pitch deck explaning the PinBar™
It's some sample gameplay, narration/dialogue, and explaining how the PinBar™ could be used to combine story telling and game play.
It's very video gamey
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