Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Those screens in refrigerators make me laugh. Such a waste of money.
I have to say that the idea of being able to check a live cam of the inside of my refrigerator while I am in the super market is appealing. On the other hand, I've been grocery shopping from home ever since the China virus became a thing so I have my good old fridge with no touch screen or cameras right on hand to check my stock of ketchup.
Quoted from Mr68:I just want something to eat.
1. See inside your refrigerator from anywhere, shop for groceries, search for recipes and preheat your oven – all from the Family Hub™
2. Stream your favorite music apps on the Family Hub™ and enjoy premium speaker-quality listening
3. Mirror shows, movies, or live sports from your Samsung TV or phone on the Family Hub™
[quoted image]
This is the fridge we have. And like always, people will say 'that is stupid/unnecessary/excessive/etc' until they actually have it. We use it for all sorts of things, including seeing what is in the fridge, from the store, in case you forget something.
Don't hate technology just because it was never used before now. Saying something isn't necessary, just because it didn't exist before, is a flawed argument.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Honestly, I don't think it would take an incredible salesmen to show off a JJP and a Stern side by side, and for the consumer to notice the attention to detail that JJP puts into their game. Stuff like a nice menu system or manual. It's little stuff that adds up
I've sold hundreds of games to first-time buyers. That's not how it works.
People come in to the showroom with their kids and they play the games. They play a few games, narrow down their interest, and buy the one they like/fits their budget.
They almost NEVER have any interest in going "under the hood." In fact, dazzling them with hydraulic struts and service menus is likely to frighten them away from a pinball purchase; the last thing you want to emphasize is the complexity of the machine and the potential service involved.
That's why you don't see see any of this stuff on stern or JJP flyers. They want to emphasize that pinball is fun. Not that you may have to open it up or noodle around in menus.
And why would a salesman have a "JJP and a Stern side by side?" like that, touting one over the other? Again, doesn't work that way. The right game is whichever one the customer likes. If I have a WOZ and a Transformers next to each other, and the customer is gravitating to the Transformers, why would I make a case that, no you don't want that, check out this sexy JJP service menu?
And trust me, ops and distributors give ZERO fucks about any of this bullshit. They could not care less. They just want to sell pinball machines and see money in the coin box.
No my argument is sound... I want my frig to keep things cold. Any other "tech" they want to shoehorn into the door just makes more components to break and go bad in the future. A refrigerator was always considered "durable goods" because they last for more than a couple of years... (Usually 10 years historically) This explosion of "Tech" for Tech's sake just makes refrigerators less reliable, in my experience, and I don't want to get on the "buy a new Frig every 2 years" treadmill. Just saying. I buy what I need, and I don't need this in a Frig.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Pinball was an Arcade game as was video games.
When we got the first video games for home usage that still was basically arcade ports but did evolve into something different, deeper and longer; so you won't play trough it and sell it quickly.
So what about an occasional (!) game that is specifically tailored for the home market, not hardwarewise like Stern does it but softwarewise.
Not always starting from zero hitting the same wall all over again after 3 minutes.
Imaging LotR but you could start from chapter 2 after you finished the first.
And if you do that you can embed more "quests" or "chapters".
Or you can grind stuff over multiple games to unlock something later.
All of this does not change the flow of the game, it just helps to give that games longer feet in the home market, for all the" I flip my games within 1 week to 3 month" guys here.
Even modern arcade games use a "telephone card" of sorts you can use to transfer your safegame for unlocked cars, levels or music.
I asked if Pinsiders were interested in this feature a couple years ago:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-it-interest-you-if-stern-added-this-new-feature
Quoted from BobSacamano:Who's going to build the first adult themed pinball machine?
Python already did. Zingy Bingy
LTG : )
Quoted from LTG:Python already did. Zingy Bingy
LTG : )
Here come the "Big Dick" pictures...
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Those screens in refrigerators make me laugh. Such a waste of money.
And if you cannot open the door to see what you might need grocery wise , that is hilariously ridiculous.
GE has a vent hood/screen combo. Runs apps.
https://www.geappliances.com/ge/kitchenhub/
2020-10-01 19_01_28-GE WiFi Connect - Kitchen Hub (resized).jpg
I love that its "integrated" with Digiorno, whatever that means.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:To be totally fair to your left nut, your assertion was that someone who really wanted the game and liked how it played wouldn't NOT get it, and I agreed with you, though maybe not explicitly. That is not what I said regarding the types who passed.
No, my assertion is that if someone liked the theme, liked the play and wanted to buy, but didnt due to the service menu. You stated you, or people you know, have done exactly that. I find that hard to believe, but Ill take your word. What game did you turn down, or have you not bought any Sterns?
Quoted from TreyBo69:Honestly, I don't think it would take an incredible salesmen to show off a JJP and a Stern side by side, and for the consumer to notice the attention to detail that JJP puts into their game. Stuff like a nice menu system or manual. It's little stuff that adds up
Ok now that I can see. But it sounds like this person has not bought any Sterns, simply because of the service menu.
Quoted from CoreyStup:GE has a vent hood/screen combo. Runs apps.
https://www.geappliances.com/ge/kitchenhub/
[quoted image]
I love that its "integrated" with Digiorno, whatever that means.
This cat is gonna get in trouble not watching the food cook...
Quoted from Yelobird:Oddly, I was going to say the same in reverse lol. Odd how committed a few are to Anything that may be suggested as change from the same old. No, nobody Needs to change the menu screens but to make something Possibly better is a bad thing? What do we care if it took them 2 days or 2 years to do. If its Possibly better it doesn't really effect Our business is my guess.
With all due genuine respect, Levi is arguing money, and everybody else is arguing “wouldnt that be cool?!?!” Which is, to be fair, kind of what this thread is about. It’s clear DR isn’t going to produce a game, other than the shell game for investors (and perhaps the SEC or IRS once they are again funded appropriately), so why not dream!? But let’s not get mad when someone interjects with real world cost/profit margin discussion
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Pinball was an Arcade game as was video games.
When we got the first video games for home usage that still was basically arcade ports but did evolve into something different, deeper and longer; so you won't play trough it and sell it quickly.
So what about an occasional (!) game that is specifically tailored for the home market, not hardwarewise like Stern does it but softwarewise.
Not always starting from zero hitting the same wall all over again after 3 minutes.
Imaging LotR but you could start from chapter 2 after you finished the first.
And if you do that you can embed more "quests" or "chapters".
Or you can grind stuff over multiple games to unlock something later.
All of this does not change the flow of the game, it just helps to give that games longer feet in the home market, for all the" I flip my games within 1 week to 3 month" guys here.
This would actually be rather easy to implement using simple ‘profiles’ and XML.
Quoted from John_I:Certain things are inevitable like moving from EM score reels to SS digital displays to DMD to LCD. On the other had, sticking a piece of technology on a pinball machine just because it exists doesn't mean it is right. A keyboard and mouse would have fit just fine on the lock bar back in the 90s and sure would have made it easy to enter your initials or play video modes all these years. A built in joystick made sense on Cave Man as a gimmick game. (Note the window to see the ball in the shooter lane better.)
A pinball machine is a great thing because it's a moving mechanical game with physical buttons as the interface and most importantly; it is not a video or phone game. Some people, myself included, don't even like video modes on pinball machines. I love my Star Wars, but I would bypass the video mode every time if I had the option. I'm all for cool graphics on the main LCD and even a small LCD on the playfield, but a huge touch screen on the apron that makes service menus or entering a wifi password easier, but adds nothing worthwhile to real pinball game play is never going to be on my wanted list.
[quoted image]
They don't need the pinbar at all, for one thing.
Point two, if a regular lockdown bar option is not available on their games (as opposed to this current pinbar), I'm essentially out anyway.
It’s a shame custom shaped lcd prices are still not low enough yet as I think a lcd the shape of a apron (with standard lock bar) would look freaking awesome. Still do all the same pinBar stuff but on a authentic shaped apron with normal lock bar.
Quoted from russdx:It’s a shame custom shaped lcd prices are still not low enough yet as I think a lcd the shape of a apron (with standard lock bar) would look freaking awesome. Still do all the same pinBar stuff but on a authentic shaped apron with normal lock bar.
I agree.
Or even (JJPPOTC style) screens where the instruction cards go. Still need the key to remove the glass but touch your way through settings menus. Exit out, glass back on, and they turn back into dynamic game instructions and pricing info.
This way, the location game touch screens don’t get destroyed by booze, bottles, or fists.
Quoted from russdx:It’s a shame custom shaped lcd prices are still not low enough yet as I think a lcd the shape of a apron (with standard lock bar) would look freaking awesome. Still do all the same pinBar stuff but on a authentic shaped apron with normal lock bar.
Quoted from Lounge:I agree.
Or even (JJPPOTC style) screens where the instruction cards go. Still need the key to remove the glass but touch your way through settings menus. Exit out, glass back on, and they turn back into dynamic game instructions and pricing info.
This way, the location game touch screens don’t get destroyed by booze, bottles, or fists.
How low do they need to be?
These things are like dunny doors... 
The first is pretty close to what you'll find in the backbox, maybe one size smaller which would come cheaper. It is FullHD. The second there, would fit much more comfortably in a lockbar, if they really must... nd can have a touch shield. Flush Mount... if they must do it. It is 2020 fcol! 
I do think the pinbar as described sounds like a bit of overkill. There's probably not enough need for communication between user and game to justify it, at least on games as we know them today. But maybe Deeproot has more surprises in store regarding this. I've often thought it's a shame that pinball games don't have multiple rulesets - you have this enormous wooden box full of mechanical and electronic gizmos and there's only one way to play it more or less. I could see a pinbar opening up new ways to play a game. If I'm not mistaken, Multimorphic has already explored this with some of their games.
Quoted from razorsedge:How low do they need to be?
These things are like dunny doors...
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hot-sell-lcd-monitor-24-inch_60786200518.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.74.df3a52e5zfOAhu
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/40-pins-High-Brightness-1920-480_62177825493.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.3.37486ccbKFU9lw
The first is pretty close to what you'll find in the backbox, maybe one size smaller which would come cheaper. It is FullHD. The second there, would fit much more comfortably in a lockbar, if they really must... nd can have a touch shield. Flush Mount... if they must do it. It is 2020 fcol!
My comment was geared more towards the location rather than price.
And we’re talking about on the apron, under the glass.
Quoted from razorsedge:How low do they need to be?
These things are like dunny doors...
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hot-sell-lcd-monitor-24-inch_60786200518.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.74.df3a52e5zfOAhu
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/40-pins-High-Brightness-1920-480_62177825493.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.3.37486ccbKFU9lw
The first is pretty close to what you'll find in the backbox, maybe one size smaller which would come cheaper. It is FullHD. The second there, would fit much more comfortably in a lockbar, if they really must... nd can have a touch shield. Flush Mount... if they must do it. It is 2020 fcol!
Ah yeah I mean an actual lcd the shape of the apron like you find these custom sized displays in car dashes etc.. not a square but literally shape if the apron 
the technology is there just very expensive at the moment.
Quoted from russdx:Ah yeah I mean an actual lcd the shape of the apron like you find these custom sized displays in car dashes etc.. not a square but literally shape if the apron the technology is there just very expensive at the moment.
Not so expensive as you think.
Screenshot_20201002_133816_com.alibaba.aliexpresshd (resized).jpgQuoted from russdx:It’s a shame custom shaped lcd prices are still not low enough yet ...
Quoted from Lounge:My comment was geared more towards the location rather than price.
And we’re talking about on the apron, under the glass.
Indeed, sorry to include you, it was a chain post... I think it may have also been that you were also previously thinking these alternative aspect ratios are expensive .... just saying, they are not expensive, but rather common.
Quoted from Lounge:I doubt $7k is going to cover it. Both the touch screen and back box display are custom dimensions. ....
I agree about the apron displays kicking in for diagnostics or servicing when glass is off!. Touch screen add on is also quite cheap.
Quoted from russdx:Ah yeah I mean an actual lcd the shape of the apron like you find these custom sized displays in car dashes etc.. not a square but literally shape if the apron the technology is there just very expensive at the moment.
Yep you can get those ratios and sizes pretty easy too mate!! 
You mean like this hey?? 
Quoted from pinballwil:Not so expensive as you think.
[quoted image]
No I mean the lcd is actually cut the same size as a standard pinball apron so like two triangles it would be a custom shaped lcd
Quoted from razorsedge:Indeed, sorry to include you, it was a chain post... I think it may have also been that you were also previously thinking these alternative aspect ratios are expensive .... just saying, they are not expensive, but rather common.
I agree about the apron displays kicking in for diagnostics or servicing when glass is off!. Touch screen add on is also quite cheap.
Yep you can get those ratios and sizes pretty easy too mate!!
You mean like this hey??
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/21-inch-Stretched-Bar-LCD-Panel_62540368802.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.7.5aed20ecXNgISc
[quoted image]
That screen is cool though
Quoted from russdx:No I mean the lcd is actually cut the same size as a standard pinball apron so like two triangles it would be a custom shaped lcd
LOL
.... and the penny drops on the post Lounge made 
Triangle makes things funky since displays work on a grid usually!
I don't know that triangular LCD displays exist at all?, other than obscuring part of a panel, which doesn't work for your apron application obviously.
Quoted from Bublehead:A service menu should tell you simple testing info, not a complete schematic built into it. Wire pair color and maybe a location on the playfield using a schematic type grid matrix (So with Locations like A-5, B-23, C-37, Where you divide the Playfield into 5 vertical zones A thru E and then a number representing the inches back from front edge of playfield)
Even better than a grid, what if they showed the actual location on an actual image of the actual playfield, on the screen? Someone should totally invent that.
I would like to have the pinbar purely to have a second display near the flippers, regardless of what other functionality it has or doesn't have. It can be so awkward to look up at a display while playing, which is precisely why I have always resisted paying a fortune to upgrade to colour DMD on my games.
Quoted from BobSacamano:Who's going to build the first adult themed pinball machine?
Deeproot always reminds me of Deepthroat.
I suppose someone could program one for the P3 platform.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:15 days till virtual expo (and next deeproot update)!
14!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I've sold hundreds of games to first-time buyers. That's not how it works.
People come in to the showroom with their kids and they play the games. They play a few games, narrow down their interest, and buy the one they like/fits their budget.
They almost NEVER have any interest in going "under the hood." In fact, dazzling them with hydraulic struts and service menus is likely to frighten them away from a pinball purchase; the last thing you want to emphasize is the complexity of the machine and the potential service involved.
That's why you don't see see any of this stuff on stern or JJP flyers. They want to emphasize that pinball is fun. Not that you may have to open it up or noodle around in menus.
And why would a salesman have a "JJP and a Stern side by side?" like that, touting one over the other? Again, doesn't work that way. The right game is whichever one the customer likes. If I have a WOZ and a Transformers next to each other, and the customer is gravitating to the Transformers, why would I make a case that, no you don't want that, check out this sexy JJP service menu?
And trust me, ops and distributors give ZERO fucks about any of this bullshit. They could not care less. They just want to sell pinball machines and see money in the coin box.
This makes all the sense in the world to a first time buyer....its all about theme, looks, game play, lights, etc.... experienced buyers are the only ones who really care about looking under under the hood let alone the information on the back box
Quoted from razorsedge:LOL
.... and the penny drops on the post Lounge made
Triangle makes things funky since displays work on a grid usually!
I don't know that triangular LCD displays exist at all, other than obscuring part of a panel, which doesn't work for your apron application obviously.
You can deffo get custom shaped lcd like below
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2692632/sharps-new-lcds-can-be-almost-any-shape-could-be-in-your-next-car.html
https://www.tianma.co.jp/en/technology/technology_trend_3.html
my thought is one the exact shape of a current sized apron would look super cool
Quoted from russdx:You can deffo get custom shaped lcd like below
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2692632/sharps-new-lcds-can-be-almost-any-shape-could-be-in-your-next-car.html
https://www.tianma.co.jp/en/technology/technology_trend_3.html
my thought is one the exact shape of a current sized apron would look super cool
Those are pretty dam cool and would be a awesome display spot as the apron.
Quoted from frobozz:Even better than a grid, what if they showed the actual location on an actual image of the actual playfield, on the screen? Someone should totally invent that.
If you had idiots for techs, or the home user, sure, but for most skilled guys fixing a pinball machine, who know how to read the schematic, a simple text reference of "A-23" would get them there to the spot, especially if you used that reverse PF printing to highlight the 5 columns and put a ruler marks down one side. Now it's simply filling in a excel spreadsheet to populate the service menu items and no graphics are involved. But if you had the memory and disk space (SSD space??) you could animate and zoom to the part and show it exactly like you would see it, but think of having to create all that content. It would add at least a couple hundred hours to your service menu creation cost PER EACH TITLE, not a good place to have to dump money when you get the same bang for buck out of a spreadsheet and some back playfield printing and an hour or two of the designer grumbling and muttering under his breath as he fills in the spreadsheet.
Quoted from russdx:You can deffo get custom shaped lcd like below
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2692632/sharps-new-lcds-can-be-almost-any-shape-could-be-in-your-next-car.html
https://www.tianma.co.jp/en/technology/technology_trend_3.html
my thought is one the exact shape of a current sized apron would look super cool
Quoted from Pinballlew:Those are pretty dam cool and would be a awesome display spot as the apron.
Wow!! .... that means, displays with a big v cut out the top section! 
Wouldn't it just be so much Next Level cooler if they actually Did that!!
Raise the regular apron up to nearer the glass and make the entire top surface one of those shaped displays, then you could potentially have touchscreen running from the standard pinball glass, using one of the potential optical techniques... or less prefered, with a replacable bonded external overlay etc.. Then shelf parts for the lockdown. Much easier to look at.
Now that Would be kinda innovative, and perhaps more Practical to Impliment as well as less intrusive to the player. Depends on the cost of these displays, really.
Perhaps they could convert to that Now, and save a whole Bunch of money in the process.... as well as blow everyones socks off, actual!
Instead of re-building on "pinbar" and chasing down a restricted direction .... kinda start again from scratch with some new outlooks. RM, let everyone you pay for their expertise make some actual bigger collective decisions.
Like the backbox too, could surely be so much better, given the effort already taken... Mostly the white vertical stripes on the bends of the translite? WtaF?? ...Why? . . If it is because the art is printed on, then the plastic folded with heat, then what could be a better alternative?
Maybe, Slightly more radius bent to un-printed clear sheet, then use a translite seperate for the art which can countinue unbroken all the way from side to side.
If you want to dazzle with a wrap-around backbox, why do it in a basically half baked way?. Pinbar, same.
Quoted from yancy:Frobozz is messing with you n00bs. He was part of a team that invented that over 20 years ago.
[quoted image]
OK, not familiar with this service menu... what machine is that?
Quoted from branlon8:I do think the pinbar as described sounds like a bit of overkill. There's probably not enough need for communication between user and game to justify it, at least on games as we know them today. But maybe Deeproot has more surprises in store regarding this. I've often thought it's a shame that pinball games don't have multiple rulesets - you have this enormous wooden box full of mechanical and electronic gizmos and there's only one way to play it more or less. I could see a pinbar opening up new ways to play a game.
Could be cool. Though when a company can't get a single prototype and rule set together after however many years, the odds they can do this are slim.
Quoted from razorsedge:Wow!! .... that means, displays with a big v cut out the top section!
Wouldn't it just be so much Next Level cooler if they actually Did that!!
Raise the regular apron up to nearer the glass and make the entire top surface one of those shaped displays, then you could potentially have touchscreen running from the standard pinball glass, using one of the potential optical techniques... or less prefered, with a replacable bonded external overlay etc.. Then shelf parts for the lockdown. Much easier to look at.
Now that Would be kinda innovative, and perhaps more Practical to Impliment as well as less intrusive to the player. Depends on the cost of these displays, really.
Perhaps they could convert to that Now, and save a whole Bunch of money in the process.... as well as blow everyones socks off, actual!
Instead of re-building on "pinbar" and chasing down a restricted direction .... kinda start again from scratch with some new outlooks. RM, let everyone you pay for their expertise make some actual bigger collective decisions.
Like the backbox too, could surely be so much better, given the effort already taken... Mostly the white vertical stripes on the bends of the translite? WtaF?? ...Why? . . If it is because the art is printed on, then the plastic folded with heat, then what could be a better alternative?
Maybe, Slightly more radius bent to un-printed clear sheet, then use a translite seperate for the art which can countinue unbroken all the way from side to side.
If you want to dazzle with a wrap-around backbox, why do it in a basically half baked way?. Pinbar, same.
Yup so would look exactly like the typical apron we all know and love and use a standard lock bar, you could even have the digitizer part of the touch screen just under the glass covering the apron lcd so it could be touch sensitive for various tasks. It would still look like a pinball like we want but be super cool 
imagine idle attract mode videos you could run and shit. I'm tempted to email once of these companies with the apron dimensions and ask how much LOL prob want 5k for a one off or something crazy hehe but in volume price might drastically drop. But no one makes pins in proper volume (like 100k+ so not sure we would ever get it down to a cost that would be acceptable. But i'm pretty sure people would rather spend extra 1k on there LE for a lcd apron over a freaking $5 Halloween topper (just thinking hardware cost here, i know to get it working with assets etc.. would require many weeks of a software/art team! which also has development costs)
Quoted from DS_Nadine:15 days till virtual expo (and next deeproot update)!
I must of missed the announcement for the next update. Could someone please confirm this.
Under the list of 2020 Expo Vendors and Supporters, Deeproot is not among them.
If this 5 year old washer I got off craigslist yesterday for $200 because my 25 year old one finally took a dump and it matched my dryer was one of those fancy models with a touchscreen and all that other unnecessary bs, what are the chances it would even work now?
Or how long before it would take a shit and cost more to repair it than it was worth?
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