(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#12101 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

On paper the Pinbar(tm r c) makes sense for troubleshooting - you've got the PF up, the main screen is blocked, but the PinBar(tm (C++)) can display the tests etc.
The dumb thing about this if it were ANY OTHER PRODUCT IN THE WORLD it would just connect to your smart phone. Printing under the PF? Cool, put some QR codes there. Hold your phone in an area, it sees the code, BOOM you're in the test menu for that section so the screen isn't a mess of irrelevant data. Built in flashlight too!

My kids got that Lego Mario set. The instructions are now an app for their phone/tablet.

22
#12102 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

The dumb thing about this if it were ANY OTHER PRODUCT IN THE WORLD it would just connect to your smart phone.

Very true. The architectural plumbing to pipe UI content back and forth to a phone is pretty simple.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

phone on p3 lockdown bar (resized).jpgphone on p3 lockdown bar (resized).jpg
#12103 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Printing under the PF? Cool, put some QR codes there. Hold your phone in an area, it sees the code, BOOM you're in the test menu for that section so the screen isn't a mess of irrelevant data. Built in flashlight too!

Augmented Reality or bust. This is deeproot!

#12104 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

How do you compete with
From Stern
Iron Maiden
Jurassic Park
Elvira
Stranger Things
Avengers

...and TMNT to boot.

#12105 3 years ago

Some little bits of RAZA and use of the pinbar are up:

https://funwithbonus.com

#12106 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

On paper the Pinbar(tm r c) makes sense for troubleshooting - you've got the PF up, the main screen is blocked, but the PinBar(tm (C++)) can display the tests etc.

The PinBar (R) contains endless possibillities to enhance the pinball machine. In both the core playing and other aspects, like thoubleshooting.

But - it is not easy to figure out what to do with it. It takes the skill of thinking out of the box. Not to add it onto the pinball machine as a thing. And use it same as a smart phone or what ever. But to think, what limitation, traditions or problems with the pinball machine can we change and improve using this. Like the damn start button. Smart on DP.

And if it does not work, like you cannot feel the action button (R) but only see it, as you mentioned, you iterate and make it work in the new context.

The trick is not to let technology drive you. But to use technology and steer by yourself. An example I like to pull out is the all-playfield-inserts-to-be-neutral-with-a-multi-colour-light that JJP pioneered. Since adapted by others. Which, with all respect, I do not like at all and think is a mistake. Someone invents the multi colour LED. Oh great. But does that mean you have to use it all through out? Was it a marketing thing and not a playfield design thing?

#12107 3 years ago

The fact that any company is touting about adding technology that's been around for at least a couple decades is just embarrassing to me.
A common sense approach. After the machine boots if a wireless connection is present it does a firmware check.
If one is available it could simply be "visually known" by them programming a simple dot to appear on the touch screen and can only be applied with an admin login. They could also allow OP's/users to have a web login to simply check a box next to the machines (AND A SELECT ALL) check box and a drop down that can be set as default with options of to push the update immediately or schedule it.
They could also do something like a patch Wednesday and IF YOU SET IT UP then your machines/s automatically update at like 3am in the morning.
So many options they could provide to fit EVERYONES needs. In all fairness maybe they are/have ad we're just not privy to it yet. I HOPE SO!

And a person should NEVER lose high scores or personal machine settings. Having to backup to USB is just backwards thinking and downright dumb when a PC is involved. It's so easy to script backing up a file and then restoring it after the install/upgrade is complete.

Sorry for the rant but as an IT guy this is just embarrassing/irritating that PC's are being implemented and aren't cashing in on the benefits available by doing so.

#12108 3 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

What specifically is wrong with it though? It's simple, effective, easy to understand, quick & easy to navigate. Why spend development time & resources polishing the plumbing when you can furnish the house with that money?
I can at least understand the pro-pinbar arguments, although I don't agree with them, because it's player-facing.

I didn't say something is wrong, I said it's lackluster beyond belief.

It's the absolute minimum. No usability update for 25 years, no use of thee LCD screen.
Imagine someone else would dare to come to market with something like this?
Navigating through a 70 option sub-menu one by one could need an overhaul.

Even the unfinished Magic Girl has a picture of the playfield on sceen in the systems Menu if I remember correctly, to show you where the "stuck switch" etc. is located.

#12109 3 years ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Sorry for the rant but as an IT guy this is just embarrassing/irritating that PC's are being implemented and aren't cashing in on the benefits available by doing so.

The thinking isn't "what can we do with a PC in here?" but rather "what's the easiest way to drive HD video for this damn LCD everyone demands? Oh I know throw in a PC!"

Everything you mention could be done with a $5 MCU but massive amounts of horsepower are spent (and mostly wasted) cramming in a PC to run the display.

11
#12111 3 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I didn't say something is wrong, I said it's lackluster beyond belief.
It's the absolute minimum. No usability update for 25 years, no use of thee LCD screen.
Imagine someone else would dare to come to market with something like this?
Navigating through a 70 option sub-menu one by one could need an overhaul.
Even the unfinished Magic Girl has a picture of the playfield on sceen in the systems Menu if I remember correctly, to show you where the "stuck switch" etc. is located.

Stern could keep that same menu for another 30 years and it wouldn't cost them a single sale. Why should they waste time and resources on revamping it when it works perfectly fine.

Do you really think dazzling and flashy and "non lacklustre" service menus are a good return on investment?

Don't you think if Deep Root could have shaved say, 6 months off their endless development cycle by having a "lacklustre" menu they'd be ahead of the game now?

Watching the plucky few here contort themselves into being convinced they actually need any of these pointless "innovations" we've been presented with is...interesting.

#12112 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Watching the plucky few here contort themselves into being convinced they actually need any of these pointless "innovations" we've been presented with is...interesting.

Oddly, I was going to say the same in reverse lol. Odd how committed a few are to Anything that may be suggested as change from the same old. No, nobody Needs to change the menu screens but to make something Possibly better is a bad thing? What do we care if it took them 2 days or 2 years to do. If its Possibly better it doesn't really effect Our business is my guess.

14
#12113 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Stern could keep that same menu for another 30 years and it wouldn't cost them a single sale. Why should they waste time and resources on revamping it when it works perfectly fine.

Nah, Stern's UI sucks and should've been abandoned with DMD's. I'd like something better.
Clicking through a linear list of 163 items to FIND the item I want is f'ing ridiculous in 2020.

#12114 3 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Even the unfinished Magic Girl has a picture of the playfield on sceen in the systems Menu if I remember correctly, to show you where the "stuck switch" etc. is located.

Capcom has this feature in their pins. That was a company that brought a lot of useful innovations to pinball but sadly they never caught on

#12115 3 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Your thinking/ scope is too narrow.
Yes your argument is correct, whereas I like the idea to be able to put an additional Magna Save etc. Button that you can activate with your thumb.
But you're thinking pinball as it is NOW.
If Deeproot really releases a pinball with "Choose your own adventure" style RPG elements spanning multiple games (wich would be a good idea to mature games out from the arcade to home use) you can manage your inventory, visit shops or other things to interact with your game.
You're allowed to hate that idea of course.
In addition, altough the touchbar may be overkill, that Stern still uses the Dot Matrix GUI from Baywatch for the systems menu is lackluster beyond belief.

Are buyers clamoring for Skryim the Pinball game?

Building RPG elements into a pinball game is interesting especially for the home buyer who pays nearly $10,000 for one single theme/game. It does seem to add value, in the sense that you could continue from a "saved game" instead of starting a new game everytime you powered it on.

At $100 million, Skyrim was pretty expensive to develop. Maybe Zork the Pinball Adventure is more attainable?

What I personally like about pinball is the speed and flow of the game. I don't see myself being that excited about waiting through long cut-scenes, or wading through endless rows of buttons/options, or my biggest pet peeve in video games... the boss battles where you have to press a sequence of buttons on the controller while it's flashing on the screen (quick time).

To each her own though...

Maybe Guitar Hero the Pinbar game would do as well as Guitar Hero the plastic instrument game?

#12116 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Stern could keep that same menu for another 30 years and it wouldn't cost them a single sale.

This singled-out specific statement is demonstrably untrue with 2 caveats: a) from your perspective, the evidence is anecdotal; b) I grant your overall point that it would take way more examples than I'm aware of for the CBA to make sense.

#12117 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Stern could keep that same menu for another 30 years and it wouldn't cost them a single sale. Why should they waste time and resources on revamping it when it works perfectly fine.
Do you really think dazzling and flashy and "non lacklustre" service menus are a good return on investment?
Don't you think if Deep Root could have shaved say, 6 months off their endless development cycle by having a "lacklustre" menu they'd be ahead of the game now?
Watching the plucky few here contort themselves into being convinced they actually need any of these pointless "innovations" we've been presented with is...interesting.

Are you on Stern’s payroll???

Sure seems like it as you seem so adamant to convince all of us we don’t need innovation and Stern is all we will ever need, which sorry to let you know, will be Stern’s undoing unless they eventually get with the program. It happens in every industry...pinball will be no different. And these are by no means pointless innovations.

#12118 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Oddly, I was going to say the same in reverse lol. Odd how committed a few are to Anything that may be suggested as change from the same old. No, nobody Needs to change the menu screens but to make something Possibly better is a bad thing? What do we care if it took them 2 days or 2 years to do. If its Possibly better it doesn't really effect Our business is my guess.

Agree 100%

#12119 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

? What do we care if it took them 2 days or 2 years to do. If its Possibly better it doesn't really effect Our business is my guess.

Exactly. A revamped super sexy audits menu would not increase Stern's sales one single unit. Just like using ol' reliable does not cost them a single sale.

You know what does help stern's sales? Actually producing pinball machines in a working factory.

You know what would cost them sales? Spending time on useless "innovations" and not building, selling, or shipping pinball machines.

I hate to belabor the point (ok I love it), but if Pinside ran Stern they'd be out of business in a ....

week?
month?
Year?

Maybe I need a poll.

#12120 3 years ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

Nah, Stern's UI sucks and should've been abandoned with DMD's. I'd like something better.
Clicking through a linear list of 163 items to FIND the item I want is f'ing ridiculous in 2020.

Agree 100%

#12121 3 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

This singled-out specific statement is demonstrably untrue with 2 caveats: a) from your perspective, the evidence is anecdotal; b) I grant your overall point that it would take way more examples than I'm aware of for the CBA to make sense.

Have you guys considered ceasing production for a year or so and turning your lockdown bar into a touch screen?

Cause, as sexy and flashy as the JJP menu is...it's still operated by four buttons. At what point will this start costing you guys sales?

#12122 3 years ago

Everyone is carrying around a Pinbar(tm) in their pants pocket. What reason is there to bolt one into the BOM of each game other than "oooh flashing lights"?

#12123 3 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Are you on Stern’s payroll???

Yes.

Stern is paying me to say that the PainBar (tm) is stupid, as 20 years buying, selling, refurbishing, and playing hundreds of pinball machines was not enough for me to come to that conclusion without financial incentive.

Ka-Ching!!!!! Keep them endz coming Stern!

#12124 3 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

This singled-out specific statement is demonstrably untrue with 2 caveats: a) from your perspective, the evidence is anecdotal; b) I grant your overall point that it would take way more examples than I'm aware of for the CBA to make sense.

Some things are obviously true, and that is one of them. I would bet anything that not one person thought "I really love the theme, the pin shoots well, but that service menu is just way to clunky for me to consider a Stern purchase"

That has happened never.

#12125 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Have you guys considered ceasing production for a year or so and turning your lockdown bar into a touch screen?

Well, that's not how these kinds of changes happen, so no.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Cause, as sexy and flashy as the JJP menu is...it's still operated by four buttons. At what point will this start costing you guys sales?

Probably not until some indeterminable point in the future where other interfaces become ubiquitous, demanded, and the CBA says we need to do it.

I'll admit to being envious of having a virtual keyboard. But the CBA of that is near infinity when you think about how often it would be used.

#12126 3 years ago
Quoted from BobSacamano:

Are buyers clamoring for Skryim the Pinball game?
Building RPG elements into a pinball game is interesting especially for the home buyer who pays nearly $10,000 for one single theme/game. It does seem to add value, in the sense that you could continue from a "saved game" instead of starting a new game everytime you powered it on.
At $100 million, Skyrim was pretty expensive to develop. Maybe Zork the Pinball Adventure is more attainable?
What I personally like about pinball is the speed and flow of the game. I don't see myself being that excited about waiting through long cut-scenes, or wading through endless rows of buttons/options, or my biggest pet peeve in video games... the boss battles where you have to press a sequence of buttons on the controller while it's flashing on the screen (quick time).
To each her own though...
Maybe Guitar Hero the Pinbar game would do as well as Guitar Hero the plastic instrument game?

Pinball was an Arcade game as was video games.

When we got the first video games for home usage that still was basically arcade ports but did evolve into something different, deeper and longer; so you won't play trough it and sell it quickly.

So what about an occasional (!) game that is specifically tailored for the home market, not hardwarewise like Stern does it but softwarewise.
Not always starting from zero hitting the same wall all over again after 3 minutes.

Imaging LotR but you could start from chapter 2 after you finished the first.

And if you do that you can embed more "quests" or "chapters".

Or you can grind stuff over multiple games to unlock something later.

All of this does not change the flow of the game, it just helps to give that games longer feet in the home market, for all the" I flip my games within 1 week to 3 month" guys here.

Even modern arcade games use a "telephone card" of sorts you can use to transfer your safegame for unlocked cars, levels or music.

#12127 3 years ago
Quoted from BobSacamano:

Everyone is carrying around a Pinbar(tm) in their pants pocket. What reason is there to bolt one into the BOM of each game other than "oooh flashing lights"?

I still say those who are getting RAZA as part of the JPOOP settlement are only getting the PainBar(tm) that can connect to the RAZA mobile app on their phone!

#12128 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Exactly. A revamped super sexy audits menu would not increase Stern's sales one single unit. Just like using ol' reliable does not cost them a single sale.
You know what does help stern's sales? Actually producing pinball machines in a working factory.
You know what would cost them sales? Spending time on useless "innovations" and not building, selling, or shipping pinball machines.
I hate to belabor the point (ok I love it), but if Pinside ran Stern they'd be out of business in a ....
week?
month?
Year?
Maybe I need a poll.

We need to go back to reels and bells! Then the world of pinball will be safe again. You Really have a hard on for DR and/or change.

#12129 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I would be anything that not one person thought "I really love the theme, the pin shoots well, but that service menu is just way to clunky for me to consider a Stern purchase"

That has happened never.

IMO, you are thinking solely from a personal homeowner perspective and not an operator's "I need some piece (and I don't care what it is) to throw on location" perspective. Understandable, but my personal experience deals with the latter. I stand behind my statement.

#12130 3 years ago

A service menu should tell you simple testing info, not a complete schematic built into it. Wire pair color and maybe a location on the playfield using a schematic type grid matrix (So with Locations like A-5, B-23, C-37, Where you divide the Playfield into 5 vertical zones A thru E and then a number representing the inches back from front edge of playfield) Any more info is not valuable on site IMO but useful usually only when something is really wrong. And what if the Pinbar IS THE PROBLEM? Now you need a spare just to see what might be wrong, and if there is a fault in the machine that causes the Pibar to break, you will wipe out 2 before you even figure out something is REALLY wrong. I agree with benheck that shoehorning a PC into an architecture just to make running a HD display is just LAZY development. I know a cheap SBC can handle this with the proper libraries and some decent coding and development. Pinbar is not as innovative from a technical aspect, and I am not certain pinplayers actually WANT this kind of interaction when playing pinball. Whats next a PinStick(TM), a joystick to play your mini games with when you fall into a rabbit hole? To me, thats just not Pinball. Touch Screens are NOT pinball... How many years has it been just the player, the machine, and two flipper buttons? For my money, I will buy something more "traditional" from one of the other manufacturers.

#12131 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

We need to go back to reels and bells! Then the world of pinball will be safe again. You Really have a hard on for DR and/or change.

Change, for the sake of change, doesnt mean its a good change. dr has obviously bit off more than they can chew, didnt consult real pinball people(outside of the org) and just like JPOOP previously, just keep working on small little details that get in the way of production. At least its dr money being wasted this time. Going to reels might actually help dr getting something rolling, no pun intended.

#12132 3 years ago
Quoted from BobSacamano:

Everyone is carrying around a Pinbar(tm) in their pants pocket. What reason is there to bolt one into the BOM of each game other than "oooh flashing lights"?

I have a TV at home, why do I get one with every JJP machine?

(For me that is one change I'm not too happy about. I like me some glorious artwork.)

#12133 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

We need to go back to reels and bells! Then the world of pinball will be safe again. You Really have a hard on for DR and/or change.

Such a silly straw man.

Did you see me railing against LCD displays? If I were around in 1976 I certainly wouldn't have had any problem with getting rid of score reels. I'm all for change that makes sense.

Manufacturing and selling pinball machines makes serious sense, but this quixotic quest to turn a pinball machine into a high end kitchen appliance is running counter to those goals, for very little or no improvement to the end user (ie: pinball player/buyer).

You can rest assured I'll continue to address this issue when some clueless noob is going on about how difficult it is to use a four button menu system.

#12134 3 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

IMO, you are thinking solely from a personal homeowner perspective and not an operator's "I need some piece (and I don't care what it is) to throw on location" perspective. Understandable, but my personal experience deals with the latter. I stand behind my statement.

So you, or people you know, have declined buying a pin from Stern because of the service menu?

#12135 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yes.
Stern is paying me to say that the PainBar (tm) is stupid, as 20 years buying, selling, refurbishing, and playing hundreds of pinball machines was not enough for me to come to that conclusion without financial incentive.
Ka-Ching!!!!! Keep them endz coming Stern!

I knew it!!!

My point is that as other manufacturers up their game and competition increases the little things start to matter. Those that have outdated technology will be left behind. Stern was reluctant to switch to an LCD display for quite sometime, but here we are. I’m sure Pinsiders back then were resistant to change regarding the DMD, but the LCD became the new standard and everyone is using it. I predict the same will eventually take place with something along the lines of the Pinbar.

#12136 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

So you, or people you know, have declined buying a pin from Stern because of the service menu?

Yes.

#12137 3 years ago

Certain things are inevitable like moving from EM score reels to SS digital displays to DMD to LCD. On the other had, sticking a piece of technology on a pinball machine just because it exists doesn't mean it is right. A keyboard and mouse would have fit just fine on the lock bar back in the 90s and sure would have made it easy to enter your initials or play video modes all these years. A built in joystick made sense on Cave Man as a gimmick game. (Note the window to see the ball in the shooter lane better.)

A pinball machine is a great thing because it's a moving mechanical game with physical buttons as the interface and most importantly; it is not a video or phone game. Some people, myself included, don't even like video modes on pinball machines. I love my Star Wars, but I would bypass the video mode every time if I had the option. I'm all for cool graphics on the main LCD and even a small LCD on the playfield, but a huge touch screen on the apron that makes service menus or entering a wifi password easier, but adds nothing worthwhile to real pinball game play is never going to be on my wanted list.

image-8 (resized).jpgimage-8 (resized).jpg

#12138 3 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

I knew it!!!
My point is that as other manufacturers up their game and competition increases the little things start to matter. Those that have outdated technology will be left behind. Stern was reluctant to switch to an LCD display for quite sometime, but here we are. I’m sure Pinsiders back then were resistant to change regarding the DMD, but the LCD became the new standard and everyone is using it. I predict the same will eventually take place with something along the lines of the Pinbar.

I can't say it's unanimous because nothing is, but 11 or 12 years ago, even before JJP, pretty much everybody was clamoring for an LCD screen. Dig around RGP, you'll even see a young and innocent Crazy Levi saying it's time. "I have an LCD screen in my pocket, and so does everybody else here. No excuse for pinball to stick with this old display tech."

I can't recall in my entire life anybody ever asking for a touch screen on their lockdown bar. Until last week anyway.

#12139 3 years ago

Interesting. Where do I send my left nut for losing the bet

#12140 3 years ago

Ooooh, how about a pinball machine with a built-in Rockwell hardness tester that can connect to the internet and automatically open a support ticket on the manufacturer's website when it's time to request a new playfield?

#12141 3 years ago
Quoted from BobSacamano:

Ooooh, how about a pinball machine with a built-in Rockwell hardness tester that can connect to the internet and automatically open a support ticket on the manufacturer's website when it's time to request a new playfield?

This would be useless in a Stern game... it would start saying "replace playfield" 30 minutes after you plunged the first ball... <ducks for cover>

#12142 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Interesting. Where do I send my left nut for losing the bet

To be totally fair to your left nut, your assertion was that someone who really wanted the game and liked how it played wouldn't NOT get it, and I agreed with you, though maybe not explicitly. That is not what I said regarding the types who passed.

#12143 3 years ago

I want to add:

- I'd be totally in in a Skyrim Pinball. (Not Pinball FX)

- I'd also be fine if RAZA had no pinbar and was just a Bally/ Williams style game. I just appreciate the possibilities (but would also stick with the bare minimum to get the game finally out).

#12144 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

So you, or people you know, have declined buying a pin from Stern because of the service menu?

Honestly, I don't think it would take an incredible salesmen to show off a JJP and a Stern side by side, and for the consumer to notice the attention to detail that JJP puts into their game. Stuff like a nice menu system or manual. It's little stuff that adds up

#12145 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Honestly, I don't think it would take an incredible salesmen to show off a JJP and a Stern side by side, and for the consumer to notice the attention to detail that JJP puts into their game. Stuff like a nice menu system or manual. It's little stuff that adds up

Exactly. But first and foremost you need to have games people want to play, everything else is secondary.

Stern would benefit a lot from having a real high volume competitor. Save them from themselves with the harmful cost-cutting, cutting corners on theme integration, etc. BS that they get away with now because there are limited options in the market.

#12146 3 years ago

I just want something to eat.

1. See inside your refrigerator from anywhere, shop for groceries, search for recipes and preheat your oven – all from the Family Hub™
2. Stream your favorite music apps on the Family Hub™ and enjoy premium speaker-quality listening
3. Mirror shows, movies, or live sports from your Samsung TV or phone on the Family Hub™

samsung-family-hub-refrigerator-rf28nhedbsg-aa-6323-feat (resized).jpgsamsung-family-hub-refrigerator-rf28nhedbsg-aa-6323-feat (resized).jpg

19
#12147 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I just want something to eat.
Samsung Family Hub Refrigerator.
1. See inside your refrigerator from anywhere, shop for groceries, search for recipes and preheat your oven – all from the Family Hub™
2. Stream your favorite music apps on the Family Hub™ and enjoy premium speaker-quality listening
3. Mirror shows, movies, or live sports from your Samsung TV or phone on the Family Hub™
[quoted image]

Those screens in refrigerators make me laugh. Such a waste of money.

#12148 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I just want something to eat.
Samsung Family Hub Refrigerator.
1. See inside your refrigerator from anywhere, shop for groceries, search for recipes and preheat your oven – all from the Family Hub™
2. Stream your favorite music apps on the Family Hub™ and enjoy premium speaker-quality listening
3. Mirror shows, movies, or live sports from your Samsung TV or phone on the Family Hub™
[quoted image]

I want my refrigerator to keep things cold... LG wasn't able to do this so we went back to a GE. Not sure I have ever wanted to surf the web standing up in the kitchen, or turn on my oven when I am not home, my luck someone hid a dirty Tupperware dish inside the oven and the whole house goes up in flames...

#12149 3 years ago

Who's going to build the first adult themed pinball machine?

Deeproot always reminds me of Deepthroat.

#12150 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Those screens in refrigerators make me laugh. Such a waste of money.

I have a hard enough time with those touch screen soda machines. Just show me which lever I need to press and fill my damn cup on.

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NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
From: $ 1.49
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 18.00
From: $ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
Sound/Speakers
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 49.99
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