Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from NeilMcRae:What a total shitshow this has been.
I'd guess about another 6 months of nonsense and little to no further progress. No line, No games and No money coming in - other than who ever has been fooled into investing in this venture. It's not going to turn out well. Seems to have some similarity to previous Zidware. At some point this house of cards will fall.
Quoted from RobF:Battlefield and Call of Duty franchises might disagree
Yeah but that’s an over the top Michael Bay inspired video game franchise that tries to walk the line of fictional but sorta grounded (until they need a set piece like an atomic bomb explosion or Russians invading suburban neighborhoods)
The majority of actual war footage looks like shit, and that’s without getting into the buzz kill that you’re watching actual people fight and die.
Someone was able to actually come up with a theme that is potentially more culturally offensive than Fire and Brimstone. Well done!
Quoted from NoQuarters:I'd guess about another 6 months of nonsense and little to no further progress. No line, No games and No money coming in - other than who ever has been fooled into investing in this venture. It's not going to turn out well. Seems to have some similarity to previous Zidware. At some point this house of cards will fall.
I bet we eventually see a line. But one that’s actually doing much of anything? Eh...
Quoted from NeilMcRae:What a total shitshow this has been.
The sad thing is we've seen this movie before.
Wow... check this out... you can invest in Deeproot!
The following is a publicly available article found here https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2017/08/16/san-antonio-financial-adviser-raises-15m-from.html
By Kristen Mosbrucker – Reporter, San Antonio Business Journal
Aug 16, 2017, 7:41am CDT
Investors looking for alternative strategies found value in two funds created by deeproot, a local investment firm that reported raising $15 million over the past year, according to records on file with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Deeproot is led by Robert Mueller, a St. Mary's University Law School graduate and former USAA employee. Mueller is also a past corporate sponsor of the former San Antonio Scorpions soccer team. The company leases an undisclosed amount of space in Fountainhead Tower, near I-10 West and Callaghan Road.
Mueller declined comment for this story, despite repeated requests.
Deeproot Growth Runs Deep Fund LLC, a fund with a portfolio mostly of life insurance settlements, or sales to third parties of existing life insurance contracts held on insurers who are at least 70 years old, according to a 2014 regulatory filing. The fund buys contracts from various insurance companies for less than the net death benefits and doesn't include policyholders who are terminally ill, records show.
Since 2014, deeproot Growth Runs Deep Fund has raised $8.5 million in equity from 54 investors — including 21 nonaccredited investors — toward a total $25 million offering. The minimum investment was $25,000, records show.
The SEC defines an accredited investor as someone with two years of income of at least $200,000 as an individual or $300,000 when combined with a spouse, or someone with a net worth more than $1 million, not including the value of a primary home.
As of Aug. 7, about $579,000 was paid in finders' fees for the deeproot Growth Runs Deep Fund. These outside sales agents included a group with ties in multiple states, including Florida and Texas. Companies and individuals involved with sales to investors for this fund included INF Solutions, Financial Horizon Concepts, PGH Advisors, McNamara Capital Inc. and Supreme Alliance. Individual brokers, Michael Cales, John Hart, Bob Patrick, Roger Jones, Dennis Wirth and Wiley Carter also participated in the deal.
Meanwhile, another investment fund — called deeproot 575 Fund LLC — raised nearly $6.7 million in equity from 42 investors, records show. Among the contributors were 16 nonaccredited investors. The minimum investment for that fund was also $25,000. The specific investment strategy for this fund was not immediately clear.
In that deal, $450,821 in finders’ fees were paid. Companies involved with sales to investors for the 575 Fund included PGH Advisors, Financial Horizon Concepts, INF Solutions, RD & J Inc., Metropolitan CMG and McNamara Capital Group. As did individuals John Hart, Dennis Wirth, Zaheer Razack, and George Villa, records show.
Deeproot Advisory Services LLC and Deeproot Wealth Advisors LLC are not currently registered with the SEC. It appears the company changed its overall strategy since starting the fund.
Mueller created deeproot funds in 2013 after running National Wealth Solutions LLC — which sold annuities and life insurance products — for nearly seven years, from 2006 to 2013, according to his LinkedIn profile.
The local financial investment adviser described his investment philosophy this way: "Invest in assets that are themselves collateralized or backed by corporate or government entities," but stay "away from the unpredictable broader stock and bond market," according to the company's website.
Aaron Flores, a former fund manager for deeproot Advisory Services, worked at the company from May 2013 to December 2015, according to his LinkedIn profile. Flores is now vice president at Revolution Wealth Management. And G. Russell Hagan, who described himself on his LinkedIn profile as a deeproot funds co-founder, left the company in January 2015 and still runs Russ Hagan Inc. in Florida. Van Gunnell worked at deeproot until February 2015, according to his LinkedIn profile.
Other current deeproot Fund executives include Cary Mueller and Nathan Spradlin, according to their LinkedIn profiles.
Edit: Maybe someone can explain to me what a "finders fee" is when it comes to investing.
So here's a question.. I think they claimed (is it 2 years now) that they obtained an "80's license", which we all know as goonies now. I know sometimes Stern will buy up licensees sometimes just to block other companies, but what does that cost? Holding onto a "potential license" for 3 years before a game is even done (if they even release that title in 2021), and then needing an actual license during the manufacturing of that game.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Wow... check this out... you can invest in Deeproot!
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:I actually just add more wood . It doesn’t seem to be a problem .
He was talking about the thermostat, not the pingina.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Edit: Maybe someone can explain to me what a "finders fee" is when it comes to investing.
Deeproot securities are not traded on a stock market. In order to buy them you get sold them by a wealth management / financial advisor , who collects the finders fee when they sell a client deeproot securities
Quoted from pookycade:There was some very bizarre logic here if you look at their early decisions. Ostensibly they took on JPOP because he 1) supposedly created iconic designs and 2) had multiple titles ready to go at launch. Failure to execute but they decided they could manage him. There was seemingly no concern about why he couldn’t execute and what it would take to manage which is curious because they simply didn’t have enough expertise at the time to possibly know. Instead of then going “ok we’ve got these pre-existing designs, let’s get er done”, instead they seemingly decided to try to reinvent the wheel: 1) slide out glass not good enough for Deeproot 2) lock down bar -put a screen on it 3) back box - I want to rethink this 4) clear coat - not good enough let’s get that tank technology here. So you tell everyone to reimagine and get a prototype done over some two years but you never figure out how the hell you are going to actually build it. Those are the little people who deal with the boring stuff. You can get away with this crap (barely) if you have several billion behind you, but you can’t with just a small crew. And honestly if you were gonna go that route the absolutely last, worst person to lead that endeavor is JPOP, and even Robert. Where is the lead guy who “gets shit done” ? Even if they had somehow perfected every last invention there doesn’t seem to be that person telling Robert that he needs to freeze engineering and have a 1 year lead time to production. Or telling him “hey how about we incorporate 1 innovation, not 10 in our first machine”. Deeproot has acted entirely like a overfunded design house and not a real manufacturer. If they had just left all this additional crap off the table they would have been done by now. But they put working on the crap front and center. This is the epitome of bad decisions and poor execution. And sorry you can blame JPOP all you want. This goes straight on Robert. Deeproot is the people he hires and the direction he lets them take. Misfire from the beginning because he strove for “unique” over practical at every seeming turn they could take. Tranwrecks don’t just happen. The track is laid before anyone even gets there to start the engine
Jpop is a genius. His games are mostly average, but he convinced Zidware customers, THEN Pintasia, THEN American Pinball, THEN Deeproot to indulge his madness for almost a decade.
Quoted from Roostking:Whos getting excited?
About what!? Did I miss something....
Quoted from Drewscruis:So, um.... when does the next countdown begin? Or should we just continue to bicker amongst ourselves?
Countdown to Deeproot factory tour.......woohooo.
Now that the complaining has seemed to cool down for the moment, is it possible that the assembly line is ready to go? If September 21st went off as planned, would deeproot be taking orders? Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my end, but maybe, just maybe, they are only making some final adjustments based on the feedback they received and we may see RAZA shipping by the end of the year. Maybe???
Quoted from wrb1977:Now that the complaining has seemed to cool down for the moment, is it possible that the assembly line is ready to go? If September 21st went off as planned, would deeproot be taking orders? Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my end, but maybe, just maybe, they are only making some final adjustments based on the feedback they received and we may see RAZA shipping by the end of the year. Maybe???
If what the „deep 6“ criticized really was news to deeproot then no.
If they knew beforehand and were allready working on it, maybe. But given their track record...
16 days till virtual expo where deeproot plans to show their backleg montage thingy.
That‘d be the soonest day we‘ll get some new info, if any.
So one week has passed now since reveal and was thinking... what is the main reason for the reaction it received?
It has to be Robert’s arrogance over the years, how he insults other manufacturers, stating “pinball is easy” and all the big talk about quad and then octo assembly lines etc. Basically that everyone is a big joke in this industry except for DR. You just wait and see he told everyone time and again.
Now this on it’s own can have some positive affects since we like to see a good fight and maybe all this bravado will lead to a great product. And a great number of us hobbiests will watch this boxing match and even root for Robert!
But when you talk smack like that, you limit your options in the way that you must unequivocally succeed - you limit your options for failure. For human nature is for the tribe to punish and even outcast the failed smack talker.
Now after the beta nonsense of last week, I think a large part of the negative reaction we are witnessing, and I believe the unravelling of their reputation, is due to this tribal response.
So much smack combined with failure is unpalatable to the pinball community.
It’s not just about the product, it about winning over the hearts of pinball enthusiasts. And the approach Robert is taking is optimally counterproductive.
He could fall back in line with some humble apologies but his ego won’t allow it.
So the only way forward is for him to remain completely silent at this point with regard to smack talk. I mean absolutley zero smack. The second one more smack leaves his mouth, the entire pinball world will roar in thunderous laughter, and we will know it’s done.
He’ll be able to control himself now right? For the sake of his employees and company?
Here’s my opinion.
1) Take all that crap (lifting glass, pin bar, lifting and leveling mechs ...) and throw them in the river.
2) Give me a great pin that feels like a pin, great rules, great art, great theme layout and toys that costs close to a Stern pro.
3) profit
In what world is Robert living in that he thought it was prudent to make a social media post slamming the competitors playfields, when he presumably knew his "hammer proof" coating looks horrible? How do you smugly make a social media post sticking your finger in Stern's eye and calling out Dankburg, when you know you have ZERO manufacturing capability? How about going on a podcast and lambasting the reliability of Stern machines, when his own machine couldn't even be flipped at his big reveal?
IMO, these are the management traits of a mental midget, which at a minimum should make most people second guess their investment in those 575 funds. Something just doesn't seem right here. There has to be a bit more back story about why Robert has such an axe to grind with Stern Pinball, the successful company who actually produces pinball machines.
Quoted from JodyG:In what world is Robert living in that he thought it was prudent to make a social media post slamming the competitors playfields, when he knew his "hammer proof" coating looks horrible? How do you smugly make a social media post sticking your finger in Stern's eye and calling out Dankburg, when you know you have ZERO manufacturing capability? How about going on a podcast and lambasting the reliability of Stern machines, when his own machine couldn't even be flipped at his big reveal?
These are the management traits of a mental midget, which at a minimum should make most people second guess their investment in those 575 funds. Something just doesn't seem right here. There has to be a bit more back story about why Robert has such an axe to grind with Stern Pinball, the successful company who actually produces pinball machines.
Dunning–Kruger effect explains it pretty well I think.
Maybe Robert has a Steve Jobs like reality distortion effect. Of course Jobs was a successful businessmen that had lots of talented engineers doing the important work while he wasting money on stuff like making the NeXTCube a perfect cube.
I'd be pissed if I found out I had a single cent invested in this portfolio.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Someone was able to actually come up with a theme that is potentially more culturally offensive than Fire and Brimstone. Well done!
I knew the PC police would rock up , but it took longer than I thought .
Like it or not , war has been used for " entertainment " since forever , with movies , games , TV shows , books , plays , you name it .
If showing history in a game is now offensive , what about a generic goodies v baddies , trying to take over the world . With animated clips .
You could decide whether to go " The Good Guys " or " the bad guys " .
You could have lots of strategy to see who takes over the world .
Maybe it would be like Fire and Brimstone , just set in the modern world .
Quoted from BazilBLast:I knew the PC police would rock up , but it took longer than I thought .
Like it or not , war has been used for " entertainment " since forever , with movies , games , TV shows , books , plays , you name it .
If showing history in a game is now offensive , what about a generic goodies v baddies , trying to take over the world . With animated clips .
You could decide whether to go " The Good Guys " or " the bad guys " .
You could have lots of strategy to see who takes over the world .
Maybe it would be like Fire and Brimstone , just set in the modern world .
It's not that I'm so PC, it's just an awful fucking idea to have a WW2 pin with historic footage. That's what you suggested. Now you realize it's awful and are walking it back.
It's not that showing history is offensive. It's that you proposed an incredibly disrespectful idea on how to show history.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Dunning–Kruger effect explains it pretty well I think.
I learned a new term today. Best thing to come out of this thread. Thank you sir.
Quoted from spfxted:.....just taking a break....
[quoted image]
Excellent tequila choice!
Quoted from DudeRegular:I learned a new term today. Best thing to come out of this thread. Thank you sir.
I had to look it up as well 
.
Quoted from aingide:Jpop is a genius. His games are mostly average, but he convinced Zidware customers, THEN Pintasia, THEN American Pinball, THEN Deeproot to indulge his madness for almost a decade.
To be fair Pintasia consisted of a few pinheads that were already in and waiting for games, decided to either help get these to market or at the least expose John and Zidware for who they really were and turned and ran when got the machine in front of a few well respected "pinball engineers". This really was the beginning of the awakening and should have been the end! I for one am still very 
Quoted from spfxted:.....just taking a break....
[quoted image]
Quoted from JodyG:In what world is Robert living in that he thought it was prudent to make a social media post slamming the competitors playfields, when he presumably knew his "hammer proof" coating looks horrible? How do you smugly make a social media post sticking your finger in Stern's eye and calling out Dankburg, when you know you have ZERO manufacturing capability? How about going on a podcast and lambasting the reliability of Stern machines, when his own machine couldn't even be flipped at his big reveal?
IMO, these are the management traits of a mental midget, which at a minimum should make most people second guess their investment in those 575 funds. Something just doesn't seem right here. There has to be a bit more back story about why Robert has such an axe to grind with Stern Pinball, the successful company who actually produces pinball machines.
The same world where you roll a truck down a hill with no transmission in it to demonstrate your new vehicle power technology. $20B valuation pre-revenue !
Quoted from pookycade:The same world where you roll a truck down a hill with no transmission in it to demonstrate your new vehicle power technology. $20B valuation pre-revenue
We never said it was propelling itself 
- hilarious!
I’m reading an article about Tesla’s battery day and this quote from Elon Musk stood out:
Musk then went on a rant about how people don’t appreciate manufacturing enough:
This is something that the average person has no idea about whatsoever. Smart people on Wall Street generally have not the faintest clue about manufacturing and how difficult it is. They think that once you have come up with a prototype, that’s the hard part and everything else is trivial copying after that. It’s not. It’s perhaps 1% of the problem. Large-scale manufacturing, especially of a new technology, it’s something between 1,000 and 10,000% harder than the prototype.
Quoted from PoMC:I’m reading an article about Tesla’s battery day and this quote from Elon Musk stood out:
Musk then went on a rant about how people don’t appreciate manufacturing enough:
This is something that the average person has no idea about whatsoever. Smart people on Wall Street generally have not the faintest clue about manufacturing and how difficult it is. They think that once you have come up with a prototype, that’s the hard part and everything else is trivial copying after that. It’s not. It’s perhaps 1% of the problem. Large-scale manufacturing, especially of a new technology, it’s something between 1,000 and 10,000% harder than the prototype.
What most people don't get about manufacturing.. you not only have to make it fairly simple to assemble (so each worker can do a few simple tasks) you have to optimize that build time. Even unskilled labor isn't cheap, and pinball has a LOT of parts to assemble. And you don't make it simple because workers are dumb, it's because when ANYONE does the same task over and over, it's very easy for your brain to naturally conserve energy and start to run on routine, which can drift. I myself have experienced this building the product I helped design. You think "oh this is easy, I can't possibly screw it up", and then you go to recheck your pilot units and realize you put this part on backwards, or forgot to install this part completely. You have to build fixtures so things are easier to assemble, and you have to make surfaces such that you don't scratch up the parts as you assemble, and if parts are heavy you have to assume your workers aren't going to want to lift it. And that's just the building portion. Then you have to do audits and do quality checks to double check other's work.
Until deeproot shows us how they plan to build these, I really don't see the point of showing even a sample game. If their intention is to contract out manufacturing, get ready to pay a hefty price (and wait a lot for your game because you have to get in line). The reason why most companies buy their own 3d printers instead of farming it out is because they don't want to wait in line. They know if they have to make a last minute change to a design, they can throw it a job and have parts the next morning.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Dunning–Kruger effect explains it pretty well I think.
DAY-YUM. Also: Yes.
Cary has a new video out.
It has a segment where they continuously make that ramp (seems very cool) and notices that their metal/welding shop is in house.
(So they manufacture their own ramps, rails and maybe can even redo the lockbar in house.)
Oh and the new playfield really, really looks so much better then the Houston version.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Cary has a new video out.
It has a segment where they continuously make that ramp (seems very cool) and notices that their metal/welding shop is in house.
(So they manufacture their own ramps, rails and maybe can even redo the lockbar in house.)
Oh and the new playfield really, really looks so much better then the Houston version.
any link? I saw the original coverage by Cary but never saw this in there did I just miss it?
Quoted from DS_Nadine:notices that their metal/welding shop is in house. (So they manufacture their own ramps, rails and maybe can even redo the lockbar in house.)
Did he say it was scaled for mass manufacturing, or is it just an engineering prototype lab?
edit: I watched. He says they manufacture some, but maybe not all metal parts on site.
Quoted from frolic:I had to look it up as well .
Explains a lot of things, doesn’t it?
Quoted from DS_Nadine:their metal/welding shop is in house..
they continuously make that ramp..
new playfield looks so much better then the Houston version..
so.. are we there yet ?
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Cary has a new video out.
It has a segment where they continuously make that ramp (seems very cool) and notices that their metal/welding shop is in house.
(So they manufacture their own ramps, rails and maybe can even redo the lockbar in house.)
Oh and the new playfield really, really looks so much better then the Houston version.
Wow! Sounds like everything is going great!
The progress being made in Cary hardy videos is stunning!
I watched the opening minute of the Hardy video and it's sad how much he had to contort himself with legal disclaimers, that he only speaks for himself, that he's keeping a list of what he can and can't talk about in plain sight while he's speaking.
Like wtf.
I can't think of a single product I've ever seen like this before. Sometimes there are review embargos, where they sit on it till a certain date. But not ongoing (and never-ending) contortion to speak about something.
Under legal threat of what exactly? Obviously there's a desire to be flown back. Really undermines everything.
Deeproot should have only showed the things they didn't mind the podcasters speaking about, and not shown them the things they wanted to keep secret at this point. That puts the podcasters in a position of freely speaking about the entire experience. Telling them something cool, then forbidding them to discuss is counter-productive.
I'm sure you could file my post under "Mr. Obvious", but it's true none the less.
Thanks for the vid.
So the ramp shot does look cool. There's no animation playing when it's shot though, so either there was a technical problem, or there's a major problem in how far software and or animations have been developped so far.
I didn't watch the whole video: just went to the peaces with footage of the game, so what the problem is/was may have been adressed by Cary.
Quoted from frolic:I watched the opening minute of the Hardy video and it's sad how much he had to contort himself with legal disclaimers, that he only speaks for himself, that he's keeping a list of what he can and can't talk about in plain sight while he's speaking.
Like wtf.
I can't think of a single product I've ever seen like this before. Sometimes there are review embargos, where they sit on it till a certain date. But not ongoing (and never-ending) contortion to speak about something.
Under legal threat of what exactly? Obviously there's a desire to be flown back. Really undermines everything.
Why is it so hard to believe that these individuals are respectfully following a known and agreed upon Non Disclosure Agreement? Its a business and they have every right to withhold anything they don't wish to share. I have signed hundreds of these and Always respect the business wishes of discretion as I Agreed on entry. May not be what We want but it is what They agreed to. Not that amazing really?
Quoted from j_m_:agreed. hence why ford (and other auto companies) have gone back and replaced most of those touchscreen controls back to physical switches. too many customers complaining about losing the ability to do anything when the touchscreen stops working.
apparently, you've never seen the year with out a santa claus. what the colors blue and red represent is pretty evident
[quoted image]
Im in this boat with my POS GE fridge that seems to be a unicorn to get parts for. My front control panel is out, thus I cant change the temp of my freezer/fridge. There used to be little dials that always worked!
Quoted from John_I:Camera zoom or not, the opto board needs to fit completely underneath the lip on the side of the ramp in order to fit in most places they will need them. Having a connector stick out an inch to the side is definitely sign of a prototype. As for the split ramp. No matter how well it fits, there will always be a transition making it play wonky instead of buttery.
I don't mind plastic ramps, but I am surprised that the plastic ramp police who like to bug Stern so much haven't come out in this thread.
Because we dont actually think they will produce a game, so for once, we will not bitch about something we havent seen in production yet.
Like I said, complete and utter waste of time and money to send those people down here
A bigger waste to have a professional film crew there. For what?
Total lack of awareness. I would have told em the same thing for a bag of Bill Miller breakfast tacos any day over the previous year.
Cary confirmed it again by saying absolutely nothing. Didn’t even say which Mexican food restaurant they ate at.
What color was the carpet? Lol
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/239?hl=napoleon and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Crofton, MD
Düsseldorf
Melbourne
Vancouver, BC
Unknown