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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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  • 845 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by spinal
  • Topic is favorited by 226 Pinsiders

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There are 12977 posts in this topic. You are on page 228 of 260.
#11351 35 days ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

I think it’s a great idea to implement connectivity of a cell phone with a pinball if implemented correctly. Why not use tech that can connect with zero hardware costs to a game. I feel DI integration was poor as to what it allowed you to do...nobody wants to flip flippers using the phone.
The possibilities of connecting your phone as a extra display is pretty cool idea IMO. I could see a Rudy type video character taunting you as you played displayed on your phone near your flippers or wherever else you set your phone. A countdown timer could be integrated in intense situations. A display near the flippers or off the back box that can be used to convey info to the player, not so much to the spectators. I have lots of other interactive ideas you could do with it but I feel the extra display abilities would be it’s best feature.

The idea of connecting to the phone has some interesting possibilities... one I see is a virtual assistant for noobs.... d/l app to phone, start game, phone has a wise cracking animated virtual assistant to coach you through the rules and what shots to shoot for... kind of like a pinball wingman without having to pay for his beer...

#11352 35 days ago
Quoted from Saddath:

Aside from what to think about Deeproot it's kind of funny:
Pinside: We finally want innovative themes and not just another Avengers pin.
DR: Announces that they plan to do a FoodTruck themed pin.
Pinside: WTF are they out of their mind. Why would I buy a pin that has no big license as a theme.
You just have to link the past 2 pages to anyone that comes up with the question in the future why we see no original titels.

Let this be a lesson to all manufacturers out there: when some random Pinsider, who’s newest pin is a Rollergames with 500,000 plays, emphatically tells you that he’ll definitely buy your machine NIB if you do an original theme...DON’T BELIEVE HIM.

#11353 35 days ago
Quoted from Napoleon:

I find it amusing that people are worried about germs on the Pinbar, and forgetting all about touching the flipper buttons that have been around since 1947.

Aslong as the pinbar is formed with the sides of a petri-dish, there is some mandate to their worries imo. Also how do you clean the petri dish and where does it drain, if somebody decides it`s wothy as a drink disposal?

#11354 35 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Aslong as the pinbar is formed with the sides of a petri-dish, there is some mandate to their worries imo. Also how do you clean the petri dish and where does it drain, if somebody decides it`s wothy as a drink disposal?

Germs attach everywhere. Plastic buttons aren't safe either.

A wipe down on the Pinbar with any kind of disinfectant would suffice. Anything that is safe for a smartphone screen would work here.

#11355 35 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

The idea of connecting to the phone has some interesting possibilities... one I see is a virtual assistant for noobs.... d/l app to phone, start game, phone has a wise cracking animated virtual assistant to coach you through the rules and what shots to shoot for... kind of like a pinball wingman without having to pay for his beer...

So, most jjp machines have two screens, this thing allready has two, and you advocate for more screens?
What are we controlling here?
A pinball machine, or an aegis cruiser?

#11356 35 days ago

Okay so lose the Pinbar and 4.1 speakers and line price it with Stern: Are you buying a RAZA?

#11357 35 days ago

I see the Pinbar (TM) being a big problem for those folks at shows and tournaments that like to rest their large overhanging gut on the lockdown bar. Hopefully Deeproot did some testing on this.

#11358 35 days ago

Seems like when pinball collectors clamor for "Change" or "Innovation" what they really mean is Price.... Innovate all you want just don't change Anything on the machine what ever you do!! lol

16
#11359 35 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Hopefully Deeproot did some testing on this.

That all their plans went out the window with the feedback of 6 new people tells me not really.

#11360 35 days ago

I was hoping for a pinhelmet rather than the pinbar. Think and it happens. Whether a mindmeld or a total mindf&@k with no need to touch buttons or a screen. Sheesh, Star Trek has that figured out 30 years ago.

Prediction - Deeproot’s third reveal of RAZA will be a success in June 2021.

#11361 35 days ago

I'm a tech nerd at heart so I am intrigued by the innovations they are attempting. I'd put them into two categories:

Manufacturing and Operating

Pinball is largely made the same way it always was, by hand, with the only real innovation being the widespread use of custom light/node boards under the playfield to reduce installation time and wiring complexity and costs. Anything they can come up with here is welcome, because as we've seen the current approach is rife with mistakes that result in uneven quality in the final product (poor playfields, loose or misadjusted components, etc.).

Unfortunately, not much info released on this front yet. I do like the "lift the hood" siderail idea.

Gameplay Experience

The problem I see with many companies trying to use new (to pinball) technology to improve the play experience is they talk about it (and sometimes think about it) in isolation. Ideas like the PinBar/touchscreen lockdown bar should be introduced by appearing in a great game that clearly demonstrates its utility. People should focus less on the tech and more on the actual gameplay improvements/differences it allows. So far, I'm far from sold. Sure, it would be handy when using diagnostics and such, but how often do you do that? What new gameplay does it support? If you're simply giving designers a way to add 3x more complexity to the rules (ala GoT) well that might appeal to a small subset of players, but not to me.

Other than the PinBar I don't see anything new here that isn't purely cosmetic.

I'm still (faint) hoping something cool and interesting will come from Deeproot, but they seem to have forgotten that the games have to come first. If nobody cares about the games then any innovations they introduce will be lost to time.

#11362 35 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Video gamey as far as game rules. You go through the mansion and can collect items that act as modifiers for the boss battle. You can never collect every item per boss run so the modifier stack is always different.

I guess it depends what video game, the AC implementation seems fun, but sounded like it was supposed to be a bigger selling point. Not saying it was for that reason, but did that game ever even sell out? Seems to have fizzled, and that philosophy didn't make much difference in overall popularity.

Quoted from benheck:

I mean, I think Rampage would make a great pin. Just whack the ball around and buildings fall over. You don't need to explain anything. It's why Jerry's best game by a country mile is Cannon Lagoon - balls sink ships boom done!

Man, not sure referencing P3 as support makes a lot of sense. It seems to be more of a counter example: video-gamey style pinball, and no one really cares about it (relatively speaking). I've come across P3 numerous times, even had a friend own one, wonder why none have ever had Cannon Lagoon on them: I've never seen or played that one.

I get you mean more the rule style, but video games vary so much there, not sure how to generalize all of them to pinball. You seem to be referring to two very different rule styles: AC is more something that requires some explanation and Cannon Lagoon is self-explanatory.

The other one that comes to mind, Stern's Star Wars, has software that seems more reminiscent of a video game. More often than not, the average pin head refers to it as pin chess, and not something intuitive or immediately fun. Some learn to love it though.

I'm still not convinced on this philosophy. It does sound like some of the DR titles will be going down this path, so let's see how they turn out. Maybe they will get a better balance of pinball vs video gamey feel. P3 seems to have gone too far.

18
#11363 35 days ago
Quoted from okgrak:

Does that size display exist? There is no way deeproot is doing this in enough volume to have custom sized panels created just for them.

The touch screen size they are using is the same one used in All Bally (I hear thats a great company) slot machines (millions) very common. And yes in a casino drinks are spilled on them every single day. Took the slot community awhile to get over no more spinning score reels and coin slots but somehow Bally and WMS did it.

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#11364 35 days ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

I guess it depends what video game, the AC implementation seems fun, but sounded like it was supposed to be a bigger selling point. Not saying it was for that reason, but did that game ever even sell out? Seems to have fizzled, and that philosophy didn't make much difference in overall popularity.

ACNC sold out and has only gotten better with code updates. It's a great game with beautiful artwork.

#11365 35 days ago
Quoted from JustEverett:

You'd be surprised how many novice players avoid the newer games at my house and stick to the EMs. The complexity of newer games seems to overwhelm non pinheads.

Related to this and a question I wish would have been asked is "who is the target market" They talked about expanding the market...'a pinball in every home'

Leaving aside the price, I can't imagine any distributor touting many of these innovations. Imagine you're thinking it might be fun to get a pinball machine for the family. The salesman shows the fancy way the glass lifts up. "This makes accessing the playfield a breeze" Customer "why would I want to do that?" Salesman, "lots of reasons, to unstick a ball, fix a problem or just to wax the playfield periodically" And just look at this, as he shows the schematic on the underside of the playfield detailing hundreds of parts. Customer asks "what's that for?" Salesman "It's great, when you have an issue you can much more easily diagnose and replace the faulty part". "But that's nothing, just see how easy it is to cycle through all the service menus....wait don't leave, I haven't even shown you the self-leveling legs or the industrial strength storage crate you're gonna want!"

All of these things would seem to scream "Pinball is complicated, it breaks, it needs to be maintained", which doesn't seem to be a great message for market expansion.

It makes me wonder if they've decided to forego the noob home market and just concentrate on operator(s) and collectors? I guess if we knew pricing, we'd know.

#11366 35 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

That all their plans went out the window with the feedback of 6 new people tells me not really.

If only they asked the janitor for an opinion a couple of years ago....

#11367 35 days ago
Quoted from GuiitarMan:

ACNC sold out and has only gotten better with code updates. It's a great game with beautiful artwork.

The time it took to sell out doesn't suggest it was exactly popular...

#11368 35 days ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

Okay so lose the Pinbar and 4.1 speakers and line price it with Stern: Are you buying a RAZA?

I'm a serious MAYBE, but absolutely no way would I put a dollar down before these things start shipping, and ideally I can flip one before buying. For the record I'm more interested assuming the Pinbar©️™️ sticks around though...

I'm a fan of the theme/art and I like jpop's other games, that's enough for me. Well, and knowing Bowden's involved gives me hope the rules will have some depth. I assume I won't be able to play this everywhere I go like a modern Stern, though I understand if you don't like playing on location that argument loses all merit. If they get production issues sorted I see no reason anything from this botched reveal will dissuade me (IE. I just want clear ramps, a smooth playfield, functioning UI, and a playable game).

-2
#11369 35 days ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

The time it took to sell out doesn't suggest it was exactly popular...

They sold out in a very short amount of time. It was, like most Spooky games, capped off at a small production number.

#11370 35 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

So, most jjp machines have two screens, this thing allready has two, and you advocate for more screens?
What are we controlling here?
A pinball machine, or an aegis cruiser?

He never advocated for an additional screen on RAZA...we were talking on a tangent about cell phone integration in general.

#11371 35 days ago
Quoted from Napoleon:

They sold out in a very short amount of time. It was, like most Spooky games, capped off at a small production number.

Really? I was following the ACNC thread for many months (I was considering getting one) and never saw an announcement that it was sold out or that they were even getting close to the build cap. If they did finally sell all of them, it couldn't have been long before shifting over to R&M. At the very least, ACNC definitely did not fly off the shelf like RZ or R&M.

#11372 35 days ago

A screen on the lockdown bar? What a genius idea for the vision-impaired over-50s...no more squinting to see the score on that 'Little Color Display'.

-1
#11373 35 days ago
Quoted from Napoleon:

They sold out in a very short amount of time.

LOL, uh, no... AC was available for a long time...

By the way, while Spooky claimed R&M was sold out in a matter of hours, distributors still had them a couple months later as well, and that was their hottest game.

#11374 35 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

It's why Jerry's best game by a country mile is Cannon Lagoon - balls sink ships boom done!

We will have to agree to disagree Ben. CL is fun, I grant you that. But ROCs is better. After losing your shields, the weakening of the flippers as you took more damage was really well implemented.

#11375 35 days ago

I would be down for a WH2O II as long as I could get it without that touch screen gimmick. Nordman works for CG now so maybe they will build one or at least an updated LED version of the original WH2O. That whole touch screen/lock bar idea makes me taste puke in the back of my mouth. How anyone could think that is a good idea on a pinball machine is beyond me. The wrap around backglass is starting to grow on me, though the two posts holding it will never grow on me.

#11376 35 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

I mean, I think Rampage would make a great pin. Just whack the ball around and buildings fall over. You don't need to explain anything.

Besides it being easy to understand, it would be fun as hell too. There's a reason why we like "bash toys". Knocking a ball into something and watch it break is very basic but it works. Probably the reason why Medieval Madness got to be so expensive. Lower bridge, hit castle, castle shakes and breaks apart.. rinse repeat.

17
#11377 35 days ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

LOL, uh, no... AC was available for a long time...
By the way, while Spooky claimed R&M was sold out in a matter of hours, distributors still had them a couple months later as well, and that was their hottest game.

From my perspective, Spooky sales accomplish their goals of keeping their factory busy. They have gone from one game to the next with no downtime, just like Stern. It doesn't really matter if all the games sell out in 4 hours or 4 months, as long as their production is 100% of capacity.

Debating how long something takes to sell out, or if it did, doesn't really matter as long as games are going out the door.

And that is the missing piece for deeproot... nothing is going out the door.

14
#11378 35 days ago

Video from Deeproot's pinball influencer focus group...

UnfitGrizzledCaribou-max-1mb.gif
16
#11379 35 days ago

I think DP should have gotten a pin or maybe even two under their belts before innovating. They could have released RAZA with the wrap-around translite as their first innovation or with the hatchback glass lift while R&D continued on their new apron screen. Then release a second pin with another innovation, and then by the time the third rolls around implement the PinBar. Slow and steady as they say.

This way they build up their manufacturing, customer base and see what works and doesn't work on their pins.

#11380 35 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

Debating how long something takes to sell out, or if it did, doesn't really matter as long as games are going out the door.

You seem to have missed the context, that video-game style rules would make a game more popular. The lack of demand for AC didn't support that.

There's also nothing to debate: AC was available for a long time, despite someone putting their foot in their mouth claiming otherwise. He lost all credibility.

#11381 35 days ago

The elephant in the room is their ability to manufacture at any scale. I'm confused why they would even announce without this part locked down and ready to go. They plan to simply outsource manufacturing? That isn't as easy as it sounds. I wish more of this plan would have been shared.

#11382 35 days ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

I think it’s a great idea to implement connectivity of a cell phone with a pinball if implemented correctly. Why not use tech that can connect with zero hardware costs to a game. I feel DI integration was poor as to what it allowed you to do...nobody wants to flip flippers using the phone.
The possibilities of connecting your phone as a extra display is pretty cool idea IMO. I could see a Rudy type video character taunting you as you played displayed on your phone near your flippers or wherever else you set your phone. A countdown timer could be integrated in intense situations. A display near the flippers or off the back box that can be used to convey info to the player, not so much to the spectators. I have lots of other interactive ideas you could do with it but I feel the extra display abilities would be it’s best feature.

First time I have thought that connectivity could be a good idea. Excellent suggestions!

11
#11383 35 days ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

JJP is celebrated for having these features and Stern criticized for having less

I see Stern games outselling JJP because Stern games have more interesting rules and shots. Wonkas aren't exactly flying out the door... meanwhile Stern can barely make enough JP Prems and TMNTs and Avengers to satisfy demand.

Bling doesn't always mean better.

#11384 35 days ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Other than the PinBar I don't see anything new here that isn't purely cosmetic.

Don't forget that Steve Jobs is hearlded as a genius for making computers in a color other than tan.

#11385 35 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

I see Stern games outselling JJP because Stern games have more interesting rules and shots. Wonkas aren't exactly flying out the door... meanwhile Stern can barely make enough JP Prems and TMNTs and Avengers to satisfy demand.
Bling doesn't always mean better.

I always assumed that Sterns outsold JJP because they come out with multiple titles a year and they are half the price. Titles like Mustang, WWF, BK and I am sure there are others in the past couple of years were probably only sold in JJP #'s.

12
#11386 35 days ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

By the way, while Spooky claimed R&M was sold out in a matter of hours, distributors still had them a couple months later as well, and that was their hottest game.

Now you're just being disingenuous. There were people clamoring for that game the minute it went on sale (literally), and IF there was any stock leftover at dists, it was simply because buyers were unaware, or the dist marked the game up. I don't think there were really any games available past the first hour... it just took dists (and Spooky) a while to make up their buyer lists.

-1
#11387 35 days ago
Quoted from fnosm:

Don't forget that Steve Jobs is hearlded as a genius for making computers in a color other than tan.

(and don't forget Apple is the most valuable company in the world despite being a joke to actual computer guys)

#11388 35 days ago

Apple is a lifestyle company, not a technology company.

12
#11389 35 days ago
Quoted from nogoodnames222:

(and don't forget Apple is the most valuable company in the world despite being a joke to actual computer guys)

Actual computer guy here, not a joke. Make my living on software development for Apple devices.

#11390 35 days ago

Most if not all of the coders at my shop prefer apples. Being a pc guy myself I always find this interesting.

#11391 35 days ago

Overall I am impressed with the design - if this flips well its going to take pinball to a new level - but they could have spent a crazy amount of money to work on a touch screen and other features that don't really take a game to a better place. For example the level feature - great idea but my local arcade knows about setting up games right.... but they screw up setup after setup.... and whats needed a level, so accessing a screen to do this that might = skip skip skip, i just want the game to flip. Also you can overthink a game, you need to purchase all these features and your brain just goes nope I am out. Food Truck and the bible are a joke right?

#11392 35 days ago
Quoted from Wildbill327:

The pinbar sounds pretty cool, but it’s probably going to take a bit of time before pinheads start to realize that. From the video on TWIP it seems to be way more than just a new settings menu. If they can incorporate it into gameplay(seems like that’s DR plan)it can add some new and exciting modes/video modes and will also add more interaction with your pin. I would welcome the opportunity to turn up/down the sound while I have a ball trapped or possibly turn up/down flipper strength as well. Hopefully DR can put something on a line and ship a pin out soon.

I envision a future pinball feature which enables 2 players, each playing his/her own machine at different locations, to actively assume control of the other player's game.

For example, you're playing your game in Canada and I'm playing mine in the USA.
Our games are synced. You strike the requisite targets enabling you to pause your game and take control of mine, scoring those points on your game for a period while subtracting that tally from my score.

Later, I achieve an objective which disables your left flipper and a video taunts you when you press that disabled flipper button.

I think that it's just a matter of time before we see these types of interactive features. The technology has existed for many years. Could be fun.

-7
#11393 35 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

Now you're just being disingenuous. There were people clamoring for that game the minute it went on sale (literally), and IF there was any stock leftover at dists, it was simply because buyers were unaware, or the dist marked the game up. I don't think there were really any games available past the first hour... it just took dists (and Spooky) a while to make up their buyer lists.

You're wrong: not disingenuous at all: that's 100% factual. You could still order a game a couple of months after the proclaimed "Sold Out" from a distributor. I saw a distributor advertise availability and even inquired.

21
#11394 35 days ago

Here's some real innovations pinball could use:

1) Get rid of wires.
2) Put some drop down wheels at rear of cabinet so it becomes its own cart.
3) Use computer vision to track the ball
4) Expand the Stranger Things projector across the entire PF.
5) Use an RGB laser and galvo to paint FX under the targets.
6) Use computer vision to track players face and change perspective of LCD elements to simulate 3D
7) Spend money on mechs not art
8) Use the internet for something that makes sense, like daily challenges and leader boards.

Slapping on a LCD is not an innovation. Innovations should make the game itself better and easier to build. Hate em all you want but Stern Node boards are a step in that direction.

#11395 35 days ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

You're wrong: not disingenuous at all: that's 100% factual. You could still order a game a couple of months after the proclaimed "Sold Out" from a distributor. I saw a distributor advertise availability and even inquired.

Who was the dist and what was the price?

#11396 35 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

1) Get rid of wires.

+1

There has got to be a better way to power spotlights.

#11397 35 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Put some drop down wheels at rear of cabinet so it becomes its own cart

I've got a golden tee cabaret with these wheels and yes, it's really nice to move.

Quoted from benheck:

Spend money on mechs not art

Spend on mechs not extra licensing. Art still needs to be decent, no one wants a butt-ugly game...

#11398 35 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

The idea of connecting to the phone has some interesting possibilities.

I often play pinball to get away from my phone. Ture story.

#11399 35 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Seems like when pinball collectors clamor for "Change" or "Innovation" what they really mean is Price.... Innovate all you want just don't change Anything on the machine what ever you do!! lol

If you want innovation in your next car... and the innovator turn your next car into a DJ booth. Being upset over that isn't being against change... it's that you want improvements in the task and purpose of the item you are interested in.

Step two - Deliver on the promises.

A list of huge features that are likely never to see the light of day isn't confidence building. It's more dream pushing.

#11400 35 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

The word Shill implies something sinister and I find that wholly unfair to Cary Hardy and Jeff at TWIP. I've been following them both for a long time and that is not my sense at all.

to be clear I don't see them as sinister at all. I have huge respect for Jeff - I'm not a fan of Cary's youtube but I respect that others do. They've been played.

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