Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Aside from what to think about Deeproot it's kind of funny:
Pinside: We finally want innovative themes and not just another Avengers pin.
DR: Announces that they plan to do a FoodTruck themed pin.
Pinside: WTF are they out of their mind. Why would I buy a pin that has no big license as a theme.
You just have to link the past 2 pages to anyone that comes up with the question in the future why we see no original titels. 
The pinbar sounds pretty cool, but it’s probably going to take a bit of time before pinheads start to realize that. From the video on TWIP it seems to be way more than just a new settings menu. If they can incorporate it into gameplay(seems like that’s DR plan)it can add some new and exciting modes/video modes and will also add more interaction with your pin. I would welcome the opportunity to turn up/down the sound while I have a ball trapped or possibly turn up/down flipper strength as well. Hopefully DR can put something on a line and ship a pin out soon.
Quoted from Wildbill327:The pinbar sounds pretty cool, but it’s probably going to take a bit of time before pinheads start to realize that. From the video on TWIP it seems to be way more than just a new settings menu. If they can incorporate it into gameplay(seems like that’s DR plan)it can add some new and exciting modes/video modes and will also add more interaction with your pin. I would welcome the opportunity to turn up/down the sound while I have a ball trapped or possibly turn up/down flipper strength as well. Hopefully DR can put something on a line and ship a pin out soon.
This will be great for the youngsters, my 5yr old neighbour missie is already holding her own iphone, and my daughter and son are stuck to their phone and laptop.
This will feel natural to them!
I personaly dont NEED it but its pretty cool.
The "nut speakers" i dont get.
But maybe it adds a special sensation?
Quoted from jorro:This will be great for the youngsters, my 5yr old neighbour missie is already holding her own iphone, and my daughter and son are stuck to their phone and laptop.
This will feel natural to them!
I personaly dont NEED it but its pretty cool.
The "nut speakers" i dont get.
But maybe it adds a special sensation?
DR might have a few blown speaker complaints when pinheads turn up the bass and max out the front speakers 
To you guys talking about not liking Deeproot original themes. To each his own. Personally, I like all of the original deeproot themes (except Fire and Brimstone). Of everything they had listed I thought Merlin's arcade had the most potential. I realize some of you guys prefer Goonies and The Who, but at least a few of us (me) prefer the non-licensed games.
However, as I am not a NIB buyer I only help keep used prices up.
You see me poking fun at Deeproot in here (I worked in a pet store in college next to JBJ aquariums that remind me heavily of the head of this thing... which I like), I really do hope they succeed. I don't know how they stay afloat and ever turn a profit, but more pinball delivered is always a good thing. If they were taking pre-order dollars it would be a different story, but for now they are at least trying.
Edit: And the in game art on these all looks really great.
Quoted from epthegeek:Working on a sick new unreleased Deeproot game in their point and click programming interface![quoted image]
wow great, do you have a sharper image.
In my opinion they are setting up for failure. Why? Because they make the same mistake as other failed pinball companies have made, namely customisation. It is a logistical nightmare to provide many different options when ordering. That is why Stern does not do this. If you want a Stern Premium with the anti-reflection glass, you need to buy the Premium AND the ant-reflection glass. There is no option to change that,
Stern knows that this is a PITA, also to administer and also the distributor has to keep track of which box is for which customer. With a Stern a distributor can deliver a Premium to anyone that ordered a Premium.
Do not get me wrong: I would like more customisation options and Spooky for instance does a good job of offering it, but they are somewhat smaller in absolute numbers than Deeproot is aiming to be. It looks like Deeproot wants to run before they can walk. I would have kept it simple and tried to make a Pinball machine first and tons of options later, IF that was needed/feasable.
It looks like the "pro and le gets" the same gameplay.
Only different backbox cabinet finishes and extra speakers.
just like the old days.
I could give two craps about all this “innovation”. The only innovation I care about is interesting mechs that make the ball do something cool. I don’t see any of that under the glass.
The other thing I care about is a fun shooting game with fun and complete code. What do the invited pinball news people think of the code?
I don't need a licensed theme - But you have to hit the trifecta with an original theme for it to work:
- Theme still has to be good
- Art has to be great
- Gameplay has to be really fun
Most recent original themes have not hit all 3
Dialed In, Food Truck, Octoberfest are not there - they all missed on 1 or 2 of those points
Heist is actually a cool theme with great artwork that I would consider if there was one in my area to play
Quoted from vicjw66:I could give two craps about all this “innovation”. The only innovation I care about is interesting mechs that make the ball do something cool. I don’t see any of that under the glass.
The other thing I care about is a fun shooting game with fun and complete code. What do the invited pinball news people think of the code?
Something still doesn't add up with the information released and my money is on the gameplay. They said raza was experiencing technical issues and also that the people invited down there convinced deeproot they weren't ready yet to show this to the public. What noone has said is what was so bad that they had to postpone the launch? Did deeproot change raza and make it unplayable? Did Deeproot plan to show the game being played and it was simply unplayable with say reset issues? Was the delay necessary because the arcade cabinet, lit petg sides, and assembly line not ready?
I'm just really curious to know the full story. If we knew the full story, we could make more educated guesses.
Quoted from PinballTilt:I'm just really curious to know the full story. If we knew the full story, we could make more educated guesses.
I was wondering exactly the same. Cary is so positive in his video, but ultimately he is happy they did not launch. Why not I must ask. Seems to me they AGAIN did a good marketing job without anything substantial to show. Anybody remember when Kaneda was so hyped about WW after visiting JJP ? Seems the same to me here. Never seen Cary so understanding haha.
If we knew the full story we would not have to guess. If it is so promising then just tell what the problem is. Most of us are adults ( 
) here and we understand that problems need to be fixed. If you do not say what the problems are and also need to have an NDA shutting peoples mouths then just f it.
After wading through the posts in this thread and reading the updated TWIP article, I agree that there is a more positive outlook. However, my question is has Deeproot issued any updated timeline? For example, RAZA just needs some tweaking and not a complete overhaul. When? When? When?
They mentioned gameplay integration with their new touchscreen, so I went throught the list of recent games and thought about what could be done with it:
Would definitely improve the game
Nice to have
Controls could be put on the screen but i don't know if it acutally improves something instead of just putting it on the touchscreen because you have one
Would make the gameplay worse if they use a touch screen instead of buttons
Quoted from Krupps4:After wading through the posts in this thread and reading the updated TWIP article, I agree that there is a more positive outlook. However, my question is has Deeproot issued any updated timeline? For example, RAZA just needs some tweaking and not a complete overhaul. When? When? When?
Based on how things have gone, I think we'll be lucky if there is another attempt at a launch for TPF.
They seemed to completely hide manufacturing capability from the announcement, which leaves me with the impression they have zero at this time. If that is the case, I'd be shocked if games were available to ship before Q3 or Q4 2021.
Quoted from JodyG:They seemed to completely hide manufacturing capability from the announcement, which leaves me with the impression they have zero at this time. If that is the case, I'd be shocked if games were available to ship before Q3 or Q4 2021.
Fair, and concerning.
Barry oursler "old"games are very innovative and have alot of industry first megs and complex layouts.
So his games can be great.
Raza will do the trick for now.
I like JPop games so lets see wat brings the future.
I think the lockbar display is okay now i know the meaning. I like the superwide display.
I prefer a standard backbox.
We all like the b/w games from the 90's so the "feel good" quality is coming back.
After all dose years the waiting is almost over.
Quoted from iceman44:That's not in the allowed "talking points" Neil. Not a peep.
We are back into total fantasy land here again. Look at this, look at that, now how do they actually get made, in any volume.
I'm sure Bob has threatened these guys if they go outside the NDA. Well, we know that he has.
The NDA is as worthless as the paper it's written on. While i would try and comply out of courtesy, the DAMAGES as a result of any violation would be ZERO. Any damages are SELF INFLICTED.
and thus unfortunately those present end up being part of a shill process. They may not have chosen to do that but that's sadly the end result. Seen it done many times.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I don't need a licensed theme - But you have to hit the trifecta with an original theme for it to work:
- Theme still has to be good
- Art has to be great
- Gameplay has to be really fun
Most recent original themes have not hit all 3
Dialed In, Food Truck, Octoberfest are not there - they all missed on 1 or 2 of those points
Heist is actually a cool theme with great artwork that I would consider if there was one in my area to play
Completely agree but lets make it a quadfecta and add sounds to the list. I can get down right stupid about a great sound package.
And for those that don't care for the front speakers, I'm going to reserve judgment. If nothing else it tells me that Deeproot is putting a lot of thought into all of this.
Anyone find it strange that Cary Hardy isn't giving his opinion of any of this stuff? The video was just him reading the TWIP article. The only thing I picked up on is that he wasn't happy with the "orange peel" finish of the playfield. Is he not allowed to say if the game is any good?
Quoted from JodyG:They seemed to completely hide manufacturing capability from the announcement, which leaves me with the impression they have zero at this time. If that is the case, I'd be shocked if games were available to ship before Q3 or Q4 2021.
The fact that Robert talks about octo manufacturing, and now we see the bottom side of the playfield printed like a schematic (every single component and wire labeled IN COLOR) which adds cost, I'm guessing manufacturing is going to be contracted out. The playfield in a sense becomes a giant drawing to follow along. I know gottlieb used to print on the underside, but gottlieb also built over-engineered tanks (and were the first company to go out of business in the 90s).
playfield schematic (resized).pngQuoted from kermit24:Anyone find it strange that Cary Hardy isn't giving his opinion of any of this stuff? The video was just him reading the TWIP article. The only thing I picked up on is that he wasn't happy with the "orange peel" finish of the playfield. Is he not allowed to say if the game is any good?
I'm not a fan of his videos at all, which is why I typically don't watch them. However, I watched the RAZA ones to get some new info. It was a waste of 30-40 minutes because, as you said, all he did was read the TWIP article.
That said, the complete lack of any opinion was curious. Is he legally restricted from expressing opinions? I wouldn't think Robert would have an issue with someone saying something was cool. But all he would say was how glad he was it got delayed. Is that because tweaking a few things would show it in its proper glory or because the whole thing was a shitshow and showing before making an overhaul would make DR look like (more of) a laughing stock?
Quoted from proco:They mentioned gameplay integration with their new touchscreen, so I went throught the list of recent games and thought about what could be done with it:
Would definitely improve the gameGOT - Contextual UI action button instead of just a different color
GOT - "Hidden" way to access house selection while still keeping the game in novice mode with stark only for locations
GOT - more shop options
GB - negative reinforcement mode could actually be enjoyable
Batman '66 - Select between normal and alternate version for each villain separately at the start of the game
Batman '66, Deadpool & AVIQ- UI gadget / boom button (could show what it will hit and the value it will award)SW - Move the stupid multipliers to a shot instantly
SW - Contextual UI action button instead of just a different color
Houdini - Integration of swipe feature on the screen for the card toss video mode
POTC - instantly select a pirate lane award and also show not available ones as greyed out
POTC - play liars dice with better controls
JP - Select smart missile award instead of spam flipping
JP - more obvious mode select on game start instead of a hidden menu
TMNT - more obvious mode select on game start instead of a hidden menu
Nice to have
GOT - more obvious house select on game start
TWD - line up Woodbury award
TWD - access to all bombs at all times
WOZ - Switching between the status screens for the diffrerent game areas
Hobbit - Ring button
Aerosmith & Mustang - Set the target ball count for Multiball to automatically abort
Oktoberfest - Select and start tent mode
BKSOR - magna save on the right side of the screen instead of the middle
JP - Select control room mode
TMNT - more obvious turtle select on game start with the info for each one visible at once
AVIQ - select quests with the info for each gem visible at once
Controls could be put on the screen but i don't know if it acutally improves something instead of just putting it on the touchscreen because you have one
mode select on Metallica, ACDC, Star Trek, KISS, Aerosmith and Deadpool
GOT - mode select (too many options, flipping though them might actually be easier than selecting one house or two houses or none)
Hobbit - Select a mode on the screen instead of spam flipping
Batman '66 - Select TV mode (each one has info attatched to it that you have to flip through them anyways)
Alien - Select movie at the start of the game
DI - Select next phone mode before starting it instead of the flippers changing which one is lit
Oktoberfest - Collect stein (each one has info attatched to it that you have to flip through them anyways)
POTC - select character (each one has info attatched to it that you have to flip through them anyways)
R&M - Select mode nr. 10
Would make the gameplay worse if they use a touch screen instead of buttons
Star Trek - punch it would turn into an unintuitive UI button
Star Wars - tie fighters
Star Wars - video mode controls
POTC - collect gold
TMNT - pizza eating
How dare you bring a well thought-out list of potential uses for "PinBar" into this thread, are you trying to get people's hopes up unrealistically??
I've been thinking about ways it could be used to help guide players through the game without them having to look up at the screen. Kind of like the compass on JJPOTC but even better because of so much more real estate. I do like the Photoshopped image of it being half height above but as they said they would then have to deal with scaling between two different displays and that would definitely add complexity to the programming.
Quoted from bobukcat:[...] but as they said they would then have to deal with scaling between two different displays and that would definitely add complexity to the programming.
Look at the image from TWIP where they show it during gameplay https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/IMG_4294-1.jpg
They don't mirror the display in the back, they show completely different stuff.
... yes, maybe that DMD style div in the middle is the same as in the back, but then they might as well scale it down by half and add all the info around it instead of in small boxes on top of that div.
... they want to do two screens, and one is a display and one is "an interactive touchscreen gameplay menu thingy". Fine, but then at least use them properly instead of just doing the heighway thing and just mirroring the back display onto the playfield.
Edit: also what they curently show is just oversized buttons that might as well fit on half the screen height.
Quoted from kermit24:Anyone find it strange that Cary Hardy isn't giving his opinion of any of this stuff? The video was just him reading the TWIP article. The only thing I picked up on is that he wasn't happy with the "orange peel" finish of the playfield. Is he not allowed to say if the game is any good?
He is bound by the NDA, and Robert only released them from the parts of the NDA covered in the TWIP article. However, that NDA could probably be easily challenged in court if it came down to it, but who has the time and money for that? Cary could surely say "my feelings" or "in my opinion" and sidestep a lot of what is covered in the NDA. However, I am sure he wants to be invited back again sometime...so he has to tow the company line and be the mouthpiece for Robert. This is the fine line podcasters must walk when they decide to head toward growth and income over just doing a podcast for fun. Everyone has a price...
...but controlling the narrative with your big hammer every step of the way can backfire on you as well.
Quoted from proco:They mentioned gameplay integration with their new touchscreen, so I went throught the list of recent games and thought about what could be done with it:
Would definitely improve the gameGOT - Contextual UI action button instead of just a different color
GOT - "Hidden" way to access house selection while still keeping the game in novice mode with stark only for locations
GOT - more shop options
GB - negative reinforcement mode could actually be enjoyable
Batman '66 - Select between normal and alternate version for each villain separately at the start of the game
Batman '66, Deadpool & AVIQ- UI gadget / boom button (could show what it will hit and the value it will award)SW - Move the stupid multipliers to a shot instantly
SW - Contextual UI action button instead of just a different color
Houdini - Integration of swipe feature on the screen for the card toss video mode
POTC - instantly select a pirate lane award and also show not available ones as greyed out
POTC - play liars dice with better controls
JP - Select smart missile award instead of spam flipping
JP - more obvious mode select on game start instead of a hidden menu
TMNT - more obvious mode select on game start instead of a hidden menu
Nice to have
GOT - more obvious house select on game start
TWD - line up Woodbury award
TWD - access to all bombs at all times
WOZ - Switching between the status screens for the diffrerent game areas
Hobbit - Ring button
Aerosmith & Mustang - Set the target ball count for Multiball to automatically abort
Oktoberfest - Select and start tent mode
BKSOR - magna save on the right side of the screen instead of the middle
JP - Select control room mode
TMNT - more obvious turtle select on game start with the info for each one visible at once
AVIQ - select quests with the info for each gem visible at once
Controls could be put on the screen but i don't know if it acutally improves something instead of just putting it on the touchscreen because you have one
mode select on Metallica, ACDC, Star Trek, KISS, Aerosmith and Deadpool
GOT - mode select (too many options, flipping though them might actually be easier than selecting one house or two houses or none)
Hobbit - Select a mode on the screen instead of spam flipping
Batman '66 - Select TV mode (each one has info attatched to it that you have to flip through them anyways)
Alien - Select movie at the start of the game
DI - Select next phone mode before starting it instead of the flippers changing which one is lit
Oktoberfest - Collect stein (each one has info attatched to it that you have to flip through them anyways)
POTC - select character (each one has info attatched to it that you have to flip through them anyways)
R&M - Select mode nr. 10
Would make the gameplay worse if they use a touch screen instead of buttons
Star Trek - punch it would turn into an unintuitive UI button
Star Wars - tie fighters
Star Wars - video mode controls
POTC - collect gold
TMNT - pizza eating
The Pinbar (TM) is likely over-engineered, like most of the "innovations" they showed. But with some creativity, there could actually be a lot of cool interaction with the game.
Imagine something like the crane in Batman. Let's say you needed to line up the crane at different hotspots and then bash it with the ball. You could quickly use the touchscreen to move it to the location you want before shooting it.
Or something like the cryo-claw (or whatever it is in Demoman). Let's say that thing was active during a multiball and you needed to drop the ball down a certain path to setup the Super Jackpot. You shoot the ball up into the claw and then hit the right touchscreen item (while trying to keep other balls in play) to return the ball for a kill shot.
There actually are a lot of creative ways it could be used as a HUD for risk-reward elements during the game, in addition to the more versatile and streamlined interface than the Action Button.
Quoted from proco:Also I don't quite understand the layout at the bottom ... like this is what I would expect a "macbook touch bar" integration to look like if they still want to sell this as a pinball machine ...
(sorry for the low effort photoshop image )
[quoted image]
I bet you take that pf and put it in a regular game cabinet, and might end up with a decent deck. I can even dig the "Kronos" style backbox...but that lock down bar/pinbar... I don't know.
I will admit... the games looks a lot better in the videos than it does in static images
Artwork is beautiful .. who is the artist?
Quoted from NeilMcRae:and thus unfortunately those present end up being part of a shill process. They may not have chosen to do that but that's sadly the end result. Seen it done many times.
The word Shill implies something sinister and I find that wholly unfair to Cary Hardy and Jeff at TWIP. I've been following them both for a long time and that is not my sense at all.
Quoted from Cheeks:[...] There actually are a lot of creative ways it could be used as a HUD for risk-reward elements during the game, in addition to the more versatile and streamlined interface than the Action Button.
Yeah I would especially enjoy seeing something very flashy and attention grabbing that is easily understandable for newer players. E.g. on Deadpool, imagine if the middle third of the touchscreen tuns into a blinking red BOOM button (with BOOM written on it and it could say "awards 99,999,990" or however many points) and the game yells "hit the boom button", but you only have like 5 seconds to press it before it disappears.
The backbox looks great, however it will not be able to show movie-clips, so less integration. The ipad seems really odd, and not that useful, and since it´s not standard size, you are probably f****d if it breaks in the future.
The colour and design of the machine seems really cool.
Quoted from proco:Also I don't quite understand the layout at the bottom ... like this is what I would expect a "macbook touch bar" integration to look like if they still want to sell this as a pinball machine ...
(sorry for the low effort photoshop image )
[quoted image]
Yes, that half-height screen looks much better. The 21in display is available at just above 1/3 the height, so you could keep the shooter gauge to the right.
Change that and add rounded corners to your photoshop image plus triangle stickers on the apron and we are good to go.
Quoted from Dr-pin:The backbox looks great, however it will not be able to show movie-clips, so less integration. The ipad seems really odd, and not that useful, and since it´s not standard size, you are probably f****d if it breaks in the future.
The colour and design of the machine seems really cool.
That screen size is for advertisement and is very common in Asia apparently. Aliexpress has many suppliers.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I will admit... the games looks a lot better in the videos than it does in static images
Artwork is beautiful .. who is the artist?
I'm pretty certain its Jeremy Packer aka Zombie Yeti. I remember he and Deeproot coming to terms long ago.
Quoted from toyotaboy:The fact that Robert talks about octo manufacturing, and now we see the bottom side of the playfield printed like a schematic (every single component and wire labeled IN COLOR) which adds cost, I'm guessing manufacturing is going to be contracted out. The playfield in a sense becomes a giant drawing to follow along. I know gottlieb used to print on the underside, but gottlieb also built over-engineered tanks (and were the first company to go out of business in the 90s).[quoted image]
In the 90s, Gottlieb may have over-engineered the hardware but it is well documented they were rushing the design process compared to Williams and it shows in almost all titles. If the game play sucks, it's not a good plan to stay in business.
Quoted from Mr68:I'm pretty certain its Jeremy Packer aka Zombie Yeti. I remember he and Deeproot coming to terms long ago.
My opinion is that it isn't. It's inspired by his original design, but all re-done, most likely by nameless deeproot artists (who don't get their name on the backglass).
Quoted from Mr68:The word Shill implies something sinister and I find that wholly unfair to Cary Hardy and Jeff at TWIP. I've been following them both for a long time and that is not my sense at all.
I think it's just more of an inability to provide FULL DISCLOSURE Kim.
It's not their fault based on how Bob conducts himself.
Quoted from clempo:[...] Change that and add rounded corners to your photoshop image plus triangle stickers on the apron and we are good to go.
Just for you - 5 more minutes of low effort photoshop editing 
(Yes, the lockdown bar looks bad when I just use the smear tool)
raza3 (resized).jpg
Quoted from proco:Just for you - 5 more minutes of low effort photoshop editing
(Yes, the lockdown looks bad when I just use the smear tool)[quoted image]
That actually looks good!
Unedited RAZA makes me want to look at it sideways, but those subtle alterations actually leave more appeal to me.
The wrap around translite, highly annoying to the eye, being broken by the white vertical strip... I mean why?? 
If you're going to the trouble of wrapping translite around both sides why on earth would you not continue the art all the way from one side to the other? 
Quoted from frolic:My opinion is that it isn't. It's inspired by his original design, but all re-done, most likely by nameless deeproot artists (who don't get their name on the backglass).
You could be right. Their agreement was for Magic Girl and maybe I made a wrong assumption because Jeremey had also done a lot of artwork on RAZA and AIW.
I only arrived on this thread 2 days ago...sorry for stupid questions.
Has anyone commented after playing?
What is the MSRP?
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:I only arrived on this thread 2 days ago...sorry for stupid questions.
Has anyone commented after playing?
What is the MSRP?
The only thing you'll find here is photoshop edits and wild speculation.
No prices have been announced, and no one who played it is talking about the gameplay that I have seen.
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