Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from flynnibus:Take note... the diner pin wasn’t released in the 50s... it was a retro concept in 1990.
No one is retro feeling food trucks.
2 - this isnt the era of location only pinball anymore. Titles need to sell to home buyers
But.....
I have a Diner in my house.
Right now.... Today.
I bought it on purpose.
Keep that in mind....
I'm with Levi on this. Pretty much everything they did is stupid. The "innovations" are goofy. That's one of the crappiest hot messes I have seen. The came up with stuff just to have new crapola. Might as well put square tires on a car.
The only thing stupid I might like, IF it was done right, are the dumb themes, with forethought, and IF done by another company that can actually produce a game. That's even a flyer, but a funny theme or an off the wall title "MIGHT" work if executed correctly with an experienced smart manufacturer. Even that's a big stretch. Just trying to find something to sort of like.
They haven't even tackled the hardest part. A factory line with workers and processes that work, and so on. Too busy designing the Edsel pinball machine.
Quoted from pin2d:[quoted image]
Apparently Lauren, Cary, Colin, Chris, Krystle, and myself suck at shilling since our feedback helped cause delay of the launch for the company we were supposed to be shilling for.
did they have a manufacturing line?
Innovation in Pinball:
What the player wants to see: The ball do something we have never seen it do before. Locked into a mech that we have no idea how it works, or some kind of contraption that, if activated, will let us see it do something we have never seen done in a game before. Physically. Not virtually as in show me someting on a screen, be it in the backbox, apron, or lockbar. As far as I am concerned, animations are for spectators and pauses during gameplay for effect like mode starts and mode ends, such as BOP's metamorphisis, or MB's intro to MB, MPM or MOR or <insert your favorite Multiball start animation here>
What the designers want to provide: Something that has never been seen in Pinball, but maybe not on the playfield... Maybe it's a topper, or a lightshow, or a ruleset that changes how player approach the game (JJPPOTC comes to mind with infinite possibilites etc... etc...) but not necessarily a new toy or mech.
What Pinside wants: any and everything a current pinball company is NOT providing
What we all eventually get: Another plywood box full of switches, lights, coils, motors, screens, ramps, VUKs, and scoops in a standard cabinet, three trim levels, and soaring costs that make a $4000 coin op investment actually cost $7K+ and after market prices that make a used car salesman blush.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:did they have a manufacturing line?
It was mentioned somewhere, but no, they didn't see it and there is no manufacturing going on at Deeproot at the moment.
Quoted from pin2d:[quoted image]
Apparently Lauren, Cary, Colin, Chris, Krystle, and myself suck at shilling since our feedback helped cause delay of the launch for the company we were supposed to be shilling for [you dumbf***].
Corrected that! 
Quoted from flynnibus:Take note... the diner pin wasn’t released in the 50s... it was a retro concept in 1990.
No one is retro feeling food trucks.
2 - this isnt the era of location only pinball anymore. Titles need to sell to home buyers
Fun fact: The first diner, was a horse drawn food truck.
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:ALOT to unpack in that article. But this jumped out at me...
"Note that the seal and lockbar on the cabinet lock down into the cabinet and seals/protects the Pinbar from accidental liquid spills"
Looking forward to the demonstration video of Robert pouring a 16oz beer on the glass, then seeing if that touchscreen survives. No working touchscreen = no working game. If I was an operator, that would be a huge concern for me. Sure the screen may be replaceable, but I'm sure it ain't cheap.
From reading all that hype, that Pinbar is the core innovation for their game design. It isn't going anywhere.
Spike 2 Node and CPU Boards are expensive either...
Quoted from tilted81:Fun fact: The fist diner, was a horse drawn food truck.
Fisting at a diner? Not sure how appetizing that is.
I like the old testament idea. If there's one thing the 3 major religions can agree on is that there was a time when God kicked ass and took names.
Quoted from Waxx:Because they aren't designing a pinball machine. They are designing an entire platform with a new OS, power delivery, solder-less connections, etc. It isn't just PROC or a computer with PBL parts like other start ups.
Edit: To be clear I think they grossly underestimated how difficult everything they are trying to do would be but I am more excited now that I now what it is and isn't. As long as no one gives them preorder money the only people they owe something to is investors.
Yep nailed it. Engineers routinely underestimate difficulty. And the worst part of it is that it sounds like they invested massive time and money in laying the foundation of the machine rather than concentrating on the machine itself. Nobody and I mean nobody cares or appreciates any of that crap unless it comes at the same or lower dollar figure for final machine. Seems like they spent way too much time on their platform and design concepts than an actual single functional (and more importantly build able) machine
Quoted from NoQuarters:Pretty much everything they did is stupid.
I like that the game can be serviced without removing the glass. It looks like the back of the playfield will slide forward allowing it to be placed vertically and rest on the glass frame.
I also like that having the diagnostics on the apron LCD will allow you to see them when the playfield is up, unlike other games.
Quoted from jaytrem:Food Truck could be fun, but I'm holding out for Uber.
What a ridiculous idea for a game, there's no way that something like "Uber" could ever be a success.
pasted_image (resized).pngThe amount of times the game Overcooked has been mentioned, solidifies my thought like a year or two ago when I posted it that THAT specific title would make for a killer pinball game.
@ jvspin - Having the glass encased in a frame with gas filled shocks is a mistake. When the glass breaks or the shocks fail or start to leak and the glass does not stay up you have a problem. There is nothing hard or difficult removing or replacing glass in a conventional manner. Cost of the glass system and lift will add a bunch of cost and a point of failure to the game. Diagnostics on the screen ? Take a look at an AP game. The apron pinbar is goofy. It would be more useful to make that a lid for a cooler to put your drinks or ice cream in. That's what it looks like. Too bulky and odd. Touch screen's are for phones.
Can't please everyone. Ever. But I see lot's to get excited about. Especially if, as another poster mentioned, they sell some models as a kit that can be home assembled to save $. The Yukon Yeti Theme could be really cool with the 1890's era Gold Rush backdrop. Like the Shooting of Dan Mcgoo: https://vimeo.com/421742641
I see lots of exciting potential with the seemingly odd themes if done right. I'll take creativity and imagination every time over another rehashed superhero theme!
Quoted from bigehrl:Whatever, my "Food Truck" premium is gonna look super sweet next to my "Restroom Attendant" LE!
Does it dispense mint and moist towelettes ala Slugfest?
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:ALOT to unpack in that article. But this jumped out at me...
"Note that the seal and lockbar on the cabinet lock down into the cabinet and seals/protects the Pinbar from accidental liquid spills"
Looking forward to the demonstration video of Robert pouring a 16oz beer on the glass, then seeing if that touchscreen survives. No working touchscreen = no working game. If I was an operator, that would be a huge concern for me. Sure the screen may be replaceable, but I'm sure it ain't cheap.
From reading all that hype, that Pinbar is the core innovation for their game design. It isn't going anywhere.
I have the same touchscreen size and all on my Bally slot machine as do Every slot machine and never had an issue. Just saying it’s not new nor something that would be a concern. If it can survive a Casino I doubt a pinball visitor is going to cause harm.
Quoted from Yelobird:I have the same touchscreen size and all on my Bally slot machine as do Every slot machine and never had an issue. Just saying it’s not new nor something that would be a concern.
Are slots players known to smack the machine around because some physical movement is considered acceptable?
It's probably going to be fine. But it is an expensive part right in a high impact area.
Quoted from pookycade:Yep nailed it. Engineers routinely underestimate difficulty. And the worst part of it is that it sounds like they invested massive time and money in laying the foundation of the machine rather than concentrating on the machine itself. Nobody and I mean nobody cares or appreciates any of that crap unless it comes at the same or lower dollar figure for final machine. Seems like they spent way too much time on their platform and design concepts than an actual single functional (and more importantly build able) machine
On the flip side, when DR goes out of business they can sell these innovations to other pinball companies and Stern will FINALLY update their setup menus! Win-win
Quoted from rai:I believe they would be better to have delivered one game and not leak too much until the next games are ready.
in response to the two leaked RAZA images it appears deeproot felt compelled to lay most all their cards on the table, while still holding back on future playfield layouts and game mechs. it felt like in todays TWIP article we got at least 4 of the 5 days of deeproot. probably not the worst idea. at least we now know what they are trying to do, and people now have something tangible to talk about rather than just speculate.
while you may not care for the appearance/implementation of the touch screen pinbar, its functionality could be pretty significant. for one, allowing players to conveniently modify, adjust, and switch rule sets/settings should really enhance the HUO gameplay experience. its been a long time coming. if done right, players will have more options and flexibility to customize each and every game they play.
while it appears deeproot has been too ambitious in their desire to improve/innovate, should they succeed in perfecting all the aspects of their framework, then it will just be a matter of making games for it. the current situation, while problematic, should be looked upon as getting the 'platform' working first, then worrying about the games second. should it have been ready to go by now? of course. but it is what it is.
as far as the upcoming themes that were bandied about, remember it didnt take much for archer to become IMDN or an incarnation of TMNT become AIQ. any one of deeproots original themes could become a licensed property overnight. if their layouts are good shooters, the package they are attempting to build around them doesnt appear to be all that bad.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Are slots players known to smack the machine around because some physical movement is considered acceptable?
It's probably going to be fine. But it is an expensive part right in a high impact area.
Lol. Have you ever Seen a slot player abusing a slot machine?? They smack those machines like it’s personal with rings and whatever they can find when they loose. Lol
Quoted from Yelobird:Lol. Have you ever Seen a slot play abusing a slot machine?? They smack those machines like it’s personal with rings and whatever they can find when they loose. Lol
I honestly don't know. Casinos are too depressing for me to enter.
Quoted from Yoko2una:The amount of times the game Overcooked has been mentioned, solidifies my thought like a year or two ago when I posted it that THAT specific title would make for a killer pinball game.
That's quite an endorsement, coming from uncooked tekkamaki.
Quoted from NoQuarters:@ jvspin - Having the glass encased in a frame with gas filled shocks is a mistake. When the glass breaks or the shocks fail or start to leak and the glass does not stay up you have a problem. There is nothing hard or difficult removing or replacing glass in a conventional manner. Cost of the glass system and lift will add a bunch of cost and a point of failure to the game. Diagnostics on the screen ? Take a look at an AP game. The apron pinbar is goofy. It would be more useful to make that a lid for a cooler to put your drinks or ice cream in. That's what it looks like. Too bulky and odd. Touch screen's are for phones.
Seems like glass most often breaks due to removal from the game and placement on some hard surface. I know it always makes me a little nervous removing the glass and finding a safe place to set it down. The one thing I like about the Heighway system is the glass feels safe in it's cartridge and it doesn't require extra space to remove, downside is it's heavy.
Can't tell from the photos but hopefully there is something that locks the glass in it's 'up' position so the gas shocks just assist. If not, gas shocks fail slowly and are easy to replace, so probably not a big deal.
How does AP get around the playfield blocking the LCD screen when it's in it's vertical position? I can't find any youtube videos of AP's service menu.
Quoted from NoQuarters:Innovation
[quoted image]
Bad example, I’d rock the fuck outta that.. I was in Detroit when they unveiled this
I get what your sayin tho
86B9BBBD-6960-47FD-A9B9-857ED1758E3D (resized).jpeg
Quoted from NoQuarters:Innovation
[quoted image]
Edsels are sweet, you're just making me want a RAZA more
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Jvspin:The one thing I like about the Heighway system is the glass feels safe in it's cartridge and it doesn't require extra space to remove, downside is it's heavy.
How does AP get around the playfield blocking the LCD screen when it's in it's vertical position? I can't find any youtube videos of AP's service menu.
A friend of mine has Alien and the motorcycle game whatever its called. Removing the glass on them is awkward and they are heavy for sure. What happens when the glass itself breaks. How is the glass secured in the frame ? I just don't like it. Too bulky and too heavy. Simpler is better.
I have not done switch tests and coil tests with the playfield raised - I didn't read your statement carefully. When I have had to check something it's pretty much with the playfield down in most cases to find what I might need to look at before I raise the playfield. Manually checking switches, firing coils etc with playfield down. Guess I didn't understand where you going.
Reading through the twip update of dr, a number of things are appealing with the new cabinet and apron designs. Many of the original themes sound good too. One big take away for me was that the basic “arcade” model has nothing vertical above the cabinet. Don’t worry about the stilts, you won’t have them or the lighted fish tank translite to complain about.
Does anyone else think these slides look like a pitch deck? They are probably pitching new investment money at the same time as drawing interest from the market. The capital required to start up an assembly line must be significantly more than what Deeproot has left in their coffers after this many years.
Quoted from spfxted:Bitch....bitch....bitch.....I bet Raza sells out!
Yep because they made 1
Quoted from Tomass:Just saw Cary Hardy's latest video and now I am fairly excited to see this play out. Deeproot could very well be my first NIB purchase.
I gotta say:
more pinball > less pinball
more ideas > less ideas
untried ideas that succeed = 0
Just like JJP & P3 Multimorphic 10 years ago (give or take) I am stoked to see a company that is trying out new ideas.
This company is aiming for the stars not just trying to copy every other company in the business.
Without companies like JJP, P3 Multimorphic and Deeproot we would still be playing the same old tech.
Who knows which will succeed and which will fall by the wayside?
There is a ton of stuff here for us to guess and BS about. How awesome is that?
Let's give deeproot time to work out the bugs and realize their visions to the best of their abilities.
And if you only have something negative to contribute be grateful that so many spent so much of their resources to build your soapbox.
Quoted from okgrak:I'm sure the German Language has a long complex compound word that can handle this situation...
Unnützlichesübersteigertesselbstbewusstseinlichkeit
Sorry, couldn't resist, even if quoting 15 freaking pages back!
Quoted from jwilson:I actually like the tilt up glass - always wondered why Bally stopped using it. The list of things the games are supposed to do is decent enough.
That list of games is... interesting. Could be some good ones, but at first blush seems like some duds. I do support more original themes and I hope they play well and prove me wrong.
One issue with the Bally tilt up glass was weight, and I'm sure the frame and glass placement added too much to the BOM. Speaking of weight, what the heck is the weight of this thing?! It all looks like it adds up to a lot, and that's without the plywood shipping box. Holy cow, my back hurts just looking at this stuff.
My space for machines is tight, so I appreciate the glass tilt idea, just wish it was hinged on the side, I don't have that much ceiling clearance. But any hinged effect is surely costly and heavy.
If the goal of the touchscreen is to easily access options, why not just put the same option setting buttons all games have on the front of the cabinet? Could use a PIN for settings when on location.
I sure like the theme and art for RAZA, but can't say much for the other theme ideas. I really wish they would first and foremost simply had made a working Magic Girl, and offered it up as a mainstream title, not just an overpriced collector piece. The art and audio direction were sublime, surely they could have salvaged the gameplay mechanics, and actually delivered some innovation there. And I see a Magic Girl image on the TWiP page which does not look like what was on the original box of lights, is that a redo? Would be a shame, but perhaps they can no longer use Packer's art? Or maybe I'm just not recognizing it...
Quoted from fnosm:I gotta say:
more pinball > less pinball
more ideas > less ideas
untried ideas that succeed = 0
Just like JJP 10 years ago (give or take) I am stoked to see a company that is trying out new ideas.
This company is aiming for the stars not just trying to copy every other company in the business.
Without companies like P3 Multimorphic and Deeproot we would still be playing the same old tech.
Who knows which will succeed and which will fall by the wayside?
There is a ton of stuff here for us to guess and BS about. How awesome is that?
Let's give deeproot time to work out the bugs and realize their visions to the best of their abilities.
And if you only have something negative to contribute be grateful that so many spent so much of their resources to build your soapbox.
I would like to see all the complainers put their work (whatever they do for a living) on display for the world to criticize.
Quoted from Tomass:I would like to see all the complainers put their work (whatever they do for a living) on display for the world to criticize.
I have been doing electrical work for 20+ years.
worst-design-fails15-5ad063a3dd54b__700 (resized).jpgQuoted from PinBallPeteFromSD:I have been doing electrical work for 20+ years. [quoted image]
That picture is hilarious
Quoted from PinBallPeteFromSD:I have been doing electrical work for 20+ years. [quoted image]
That's pretty nice man. Not everyone excels at their job however.
Quoted from Tomass:I would like to see all the complainers put their work (whatever they do for a living) on display for the world to criticize.
Quoted from Tomass:I would like to see all the complainers put their work (whatever they do for a living) on display for the world to criticize.
The thing is that Deeproot made claims they were going to blow the competition away with innovations, putting everthing down etc. So you could argue these reactions are justified somewhat.
Do any of you guys really find the service buttons on your pinball machines to be "very difficult to use for simple testing, maintenance, or tasks?" I agree opening a door and using buttons can be pretty difficult if you don't have any hands, and the Pinbar (TM) will help out there as you can use your tongue or penis instead, but I just don't see this as a huge improvement when it comes to ease of use.
Reminds me of those "as seen on tv" ads where someone can't use a basic onion peeler without losing a finger or setting their kitchen on fire.
Quoted from tilted81:Why’s everybody hating on food truck? Same thing as Diner.
Would you pay $8k for a new Diner?
I can't believe the amount of people apologizing for such a stupid theme!
I can't imagine more than a handful of people buying a theme like that.
You guys know it. "Take my money for Food truck! I'm not getting Avengers, GNR, Toy Story, James Bond or any other game because Food truck kick ass"
Ain't gonna happen.
Can you imagine if a successful company like Stern announced a "food truck" game? LOL
How do you even buy parts for the limited amount of games they might sell?
Whatever, I'm all for MORE pinball, let's see how this one plays out.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Do any of you guys really find the service buttons on your pinball machines to be "very difficult to use for simple testing, maintenance, or tasks?" I agree opening a door and using buttons can be pretty difficult if you don't have any hands, and the Pinbar (TM) will help out there as you can use your tongue or penis instead, but I just don't see this as a huge improvement when it comes to ease of use.
Reminds me of those "as seen on tv" ads where someone can't use a basic onion peeler without losing a finger or setting their kitchen on fire.
It's definitely overkill, but at least they're trying to make a good GUI that doesn't confuse all the new home owners.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Reminds me of those "as seen on tv" ads where someone can't use a basic onion peeler without losing a finger or setting their kitchen on fire.
I like the guy that cuts the bottom out of a boat and puts in screen and sprays it with rubber stuff.
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