Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from dnaman:Coming in here very late to this thread but it is very interesting. There are a good number of industry folk who appear to be involved. That certainly has me intrigued.
Don't be too intrigued. Every single one of them was out of work.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Don't be too intrigued. Every single one of them was out of work.
I don't get why all these manufacturers are always bragging about hiring these old dudes that made games 20 or 30 years ago. I want to see new, young design talent discovered. They are out there, and you probably can pay them less than these old reheated design ideas from the same 5 people.
Quoted from JodyG:I don't get why all these manufacturers are always bragging about hiring these old dudes that made games 20 or 30 years ago. I want to see new, young design talent discovered. They are out there, and you probably can pay them less than these old reheated design ideas from the same 5 people.
Probably because you can't afford to F up when you are spending millions of other people's $$$
Where is the "young new design talent" that understands pinball?
Probably making more $$ doing something else.
Quoted from iceman44:Probably because you can't afford to F up when you are spending millions of other people's $$$
Where is the "young new design talent" that understands pinball?
Probably making more $$ doing something else.
Stern is hiring people based not upon stuff they did 30 years ago, but on potential.
TNA is a huge hit and I've never heard of the guy who designed it before.
Deep Root is pinning it's hopes on Magic Girl, Gorgar 2 and Dr Dude 2 and AP brought the band back together for those of you who are big Lost in Space fans.
Quoted from iceman44:Probably because you can't afford to F up when you are spending millions of other people's $$$
Where is the "young new design talent" that understands pinball?
Probably making more $$ doing something else.
Says you. Somewhere out there is a young talent working on his quad-spinning disks that's going to blow all of our minds.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:AP brought the band back together for those of you who are big Lost in Space fans.
Levi, I know you have a dislike for Balcer's games, but at least pick a game that he worked on. That was a John Borg game. BTW, there are only a couple of guys here who worked at Sega, Joe and Jeff Busch, so, not sure why you continue with that same trope. Not sure how you can even compare Jeff Busch's art work on Houdini to what he did at Sega 20 years ago.
I've never done pinball before Houdini, our sound/music guy Matt Kern I believe did one game before Houdini, our new programmer Joe Schober, did one game before he joined us (Alien), so plenty of fresh blood at AP. You may not like Houdini, but evaluate AP for who we are now, and what we are doing, not based on where guys worked 20 years ago.
Quoted from iceman44:Probably because you can't afford to F up when you are spending millions of other people's $$$
Where is the "young new design talent" that understands pinball?
Probably making more $$ doing something else.
Anyone else curious, if they're releasing several titles at once, and only one is good, how that will affect sales of the others. Sure hope they have something decent lined up.
Quoted from blowback1976:Anyone else curious, if they're releasing several titles at once, and only one is good, how that will affect sales of the others. Sure hope they have something decent lined up.
That could be a problem the other direction. Say they release three games. All at the same time. What if all three are great games ? What if you have to choose one ?
Sure will be interesting. I hope what ever they unveil is great.
LTG : )
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Stern is hiring people based not upon stuff they did 30 years ago, but on potential.
TNA is a huge hit and I've never heard of the guy who designed it before.
Deep Root is pinning it's hopes on Magic Girl, Gorgar 2 and Dr Dude 2 and AP brought the band back together for those of you who are big Lost in Space fans.
Lets wait and see what they actually produce before getting all bent out of shape over nothing. It's called keeping an open mind! 
Scott, Eric and Keith are all new designers doing a great job so far.
And i don't see DR being another retread pinball company, they appear to bringing new innovation to the pinball world. We know the sound/audio/animations are going to be off the charts with David and crew. 
Oh btw, Stern is gonna sell 12k pins this year, mix in the tax cut and they can afford to hire "potential".
Quoted from JodyG:I don't get why all these manufacturers are always bragging about hiring these old dudes that made games 20 or 30 years ago. I want to see new, young design talent discovered. They are out there, and you probably can pay them less than these old reheated design ideas from the same 5 people.
Yeah, I remember some "young new talent" that did the initial code on X-Men.
Based on that experience, give me "these old dudes that made games 20 or 30 years ago."
Quoted from Concretehardt:Wait!, what? You got shirt? Some kind of favoritism going on here, I didn’t even get a shirt from JPOP.. you are one of the lucky ones
YES, thanks to Buddy for securing it from the hands of Jpop and bringing it back to me!
Quoted from rosh:BTW, there are only a couple of guys here who worked at Sega, Joe and Jeff Busch
To be fair, Jim did too.
Quoted from JodyG:I don't get why all these manufacturers are always bragging about hiring these old dudes that made games 20 or 30 years ago.
Because those old guys know there shit and there is no substitute for experience. They are literally legends of the pinball industry, the best of the best. If something were to happen to all of those guys at once and Stern hired all young guys to replace them, it would not go well for Stern or us their customers either one trust me. The company would fold.
Quoted from Who-Dey:If something were to happen to all of those guys at once and Stern hired all young guys to replace them, it would not go well for Stern or us their customers either one trust me. The company would fold.
that's make a lot of sense. Just like Apple folded after Steve Jobs kicked the bucket..... 
Quoted from singapore_pin:that's make a lot of sense. Just like Apple folded after Steve Jobs kicked the bucket.....
Apples and oranges dude, you cant even compare the two.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Apples and oranges dude, you cant even compare the two.
Yes, i can! Iron Maiden and TNA are the best examples. It is raining money for Stern and Spooky........We will miss the old fellas but will have little impact on the hobby.
Quoted from singapore_pin:Yes, i can! Iron Maiden and TNA are the best examples. It is raining money for Stern and Spooky........We will miss the old fellas but will have little impact on the hobby.
When one of those old guys is Jpop then there is concern. What has he ever done right in pinball?
Quoted from hank527:When one of those old guys is Jpop then there is concern. What has he ever done right in pinball?
Right Flippers, right outlanes, right ramps...
Quoted from singapore_pin:that's make a lot of sense. Just like Apple folded after Steve Jobs kicked the bucket.....
Wich is exactly what happened after firing him 1985.
There will always be a "new school"vs "old school" mentality in many industries. I think a smart company would have a mix of the two! This way you maintain wisdom and a somewhat older view of certain task at hand but also have a forward progressive thinking team that has a connection with the current pulse of society. Should be able to cover a wide spectrum with this type of team.
Which is why JPOP will likely be successful once again in this field, he needs to be managed. Give him creative license (within reason) and let others handle operations, ok well... everything else.
Quoted from dnaman:Wow, did I shut this thread down with mention of JPOP?
Because he is awful for Pinball and no one will buy any future games he is associated with.
If they ship an awesome next generation pinball machine merging modern GPU's, network connectivity and classic pinball, with world class service and support, I don't care who they have on staff.
It just comes down to how awesome they make their pinball machines. And how awesome their themes are. How they support customers.
It's already a win that they aren't using customers to fund the company.
Quoted from OnTheSnap:If they ship an awesome next generation pinball machine merging modern GPU's, network connectivity and classic pinball, with world class service and support, I don't care who they have on staff.
It just comes down to how awesome they make their pinball machines. And how awesome their themes are. How they support customers.
It's already a win that they aren't using customers to fund the company.
Only because that model is dead. Jpop is toxic.
How do we even know if JPOP will even survive at deeproot? Robert has already talked about "tough love" conversations.
How many of you "not going to buy from any company associated with that toxic designer" would change their mind if JPOP was no longer with the company?
Quoted from hank527:Only because that model is dead. Jpop is toxic.
Ok. But what about the 30 other people working there pouring their heart into a new machine?
One bad apple doesn’t influence my overall opinion of a company.
Quoted from iceman44:Lets wait and see what they actually produce before getting all bent out of shape over nothing. It's called keeping an open mind!
Oh yeah, when I think "pinside" I DEFINITELY think "open minds."
I still can't believe these guys are bringing Jpop back.
I plan on entering deep root's giveaways and if no one wants to sign up for John's pin, I might win it. 
Quoted from OnTheSnap:Ok. But what about the 30 other people working there pouring their heart into a new machine?
One bad apple doesn’t influence my overall opinion of a company.
I do not care. If Jpop is on the payroll, I will not support them. If a company emoyed someone who did harm to you, would you support them?
Hiring JPop comes with a lot of baggage. If they offer a serious olive branch to JPops victims, it would go a long way towards putting that mess behind them. If they offer nothing then the deeproot bashing will follow them for a long time...
Quoted from hank527:I do not care. If Jpop is on the payroll, I will not support them. If a company emoyed someone who did harm to you, would you support them?
They are employing someone who did harm to me. JPOP screwed me out of my money for RAZA! Deeproot hired him and they are going to give me a free game for my lost money. You're damn right I'm going to support them.
Quoted from Rondogg:Hiring JPop comes with a lot of baggage. If they offer a serious olive branch to JPops victims, it would go a long way towards putting that mess behind them. If they offer nothing then the deeproot bashing will follow them for a long time...
What's a bigger olive branch than assuming ownership of JPOP's pissed off customers, and giving them a free game?
Other than Pisiders needing something to be pissed about, I just don't get the angst here. If they hired JPOP and said F U to previous owners by asking them to buy one of his new games, I would totally get it. But that's not what they're doing. They're building games without taking money from anyone (whether that's successful or not remains to be seen) and in the process they're giving restitution to the people John screwed over. What the hell is there in that to be upset about?
Quoted from Cheeks:What's a bigger olive branch than assuming ownership of JPOP's pissed off customers, and giving them a free game?
Other than Pisiders needing something to be pissed about, I just don't get the angst here. If they hired JPOP and said F U to previous owners by asking them to buy one of his new games, I would totally get it. But that's not what they're doing. They're building games without taking money from anyone (whether that's successful or not remains to be seen) and in the process they're giving restitution to the people John screwed over. What the hell is there in that to be upset about?
I agree with you. Nothing to lose really. But this is like the 3rd JOP Savior to come along so try to temper your hopes..
Charlie-Brown-Football- (resized).jpgQuoted from Cheeks:They are employing someone who did harm to me. JPOP screwed me out of my money for RAZA! Deeproot hired him and they are going to give me a free game for my lost money. You're damn right I'm going to support them.
What's a bigger olive branch than assuming ownership of JPOP's pissed off customers, and giving them a free game?
Other than Pisiders needing something to be pissed about, I just don't get the angst here. If they hired JPOP and said F U to previous owners by asking them to buy one of his new games, I would totally get it. But that's not what they're doing. They're building games without taking money from anyone (whether that's successful or not remains to be seen) and in the process they're giving restitution to the people John screwed over. What the hell is there in that to be upset about?
They never said they are giving free games, did they?
Quoted from JodyG:They never said they are giving free games, did they?
In twip interview Deeproot was said to be giving one of each designers pins away "for free". I think some of of the paid in full people get a Deeproot game in "exchange" for their financial loss.
Quoted from JodyG:They never said they are giving free games, did they?
They are offering a game, games or cash to past JPOP customers, depending on the amount given to JPOP.
If anyone is interested in the exact terms Deep Root is offering to past JPOP customers, the information is public. See link below.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:In twip interview Deeproot was said to be giving one of each designers pins away "for free". I think some of of the paid in full people get a Deeproot game in "exchange" for their financial loss.
Just to clarify, deeproot plans to give away one of each designers pins as part of the monthly This Week in Pinball Giveaway Extravaganzas (info here: https://thisweekinpinball.com/new-giveaways-for-august-first-twip-le-emails/).
That is completely separate from the Goodwill Terms for Zidware customers, where deeproot is offering credits towards deeproot games based on how much $$ Zidware customers were owed, if that makes sense. As Jvspin said, more info can be found here: https://zidware.deeproottech.com/
Quoted from rubberducks:Um, how?
Their electric cars? The CO2 footprint of the average Tesla is so high (due to the large capacity Lithium-Ion batteries) that you have to do huge mileages for years to emit less CO2 overall than an average family car over the same period.
For the average owner, it's multiples worse. As of now, pure ICEs, mild hybrids, or small city-type electric cars are vastly 'greener' and more sustainable. In terms of environmental impact and resources expended, Teslas are the most burdensome cars on the planet.
Citations please, or I call bullshit.
Those batteries have a massive lifecycle - they're expected to be used for decades after they're taken out of the car for other uses.
Quoted from Brijam:Citations please, or I call bullshit.
Those batteries have a massive lifecycle - they're expected to be used for decades after they're taken out of the car for other uses.
I refer to the highly liberal-leaning Forbes magazine, which says the footprint of manufacturing the car (slightly more than the manufacture of a traditional petroleum engine) is dramatically and several-orders-of-magnitude outweighed by the CO2 savings of not using gas to power the car over its lifetime.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I refer to the highly liberal-leaning Forbes magazine, which says the footprint of manufacturing the car (slightly more than the manufacture of a traditional petroleum engine) is dramatically and several-orders-of-magnitude outweighed by the CO2 savings of not using gas to power the car over its lifetime.
Oh, that rag. Their conclusions are debunked here, I assume you will trust Popular Mechanics as a fair source:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/news/a27039/tesla-battery-emissions-study-fake-news/
Back to the topic of deeproot, I for one hope they do great stuff and shake the industry up.
The only hard limit I can think of is the software. Throwing people at the software side of the problem will just make it take longer.
Does anyone know if they're using something like P-ROC or developing their own system from scratch? AP is using P-ROC, aren't they?
Quoted from Brijam:Oh, that rag. Their conclusions are debunked here, I assume you will trust Popular Mechanics as a fair source:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/news/a27039/tesla-battery-emissions-study-fake-news/
Back to the topic of deeproot, I for one hope they do great stuff and shake the industry up.
The only hard limit I can think of is the software. Throwing people at the software side of the problem will just make it take longer.
Does anyone know if they're using something like P-ROC or developing their own system from scratch? AP is using P-ROC, aren't they?
Awesome link; that supports the Forbes article
Perfectly!
Fully agree on the software front. Yes, AP is using P-roc. Makes total sense to me to move to a common platform - my only tiny complaint about P-ROC is the boot time. Otherwise it is pretty easy to develop against and very lightweight which is awesome!
Quoted from Cheeks:They are employing someone who did harm to me. JPOP screwed me out of my money for RAZA! Deeproot hired him and they are going to give me a free game for my lost money. You're damn right I'm going to support them.
What's a bigger olive branch than assuming ownership of JPOP's pissed off customers, and giving them a free game?
Other than Pisiders needing something to be pissed about, I just don't get the angst here. If they hired JPOP and said F U to previous owners by asking them to buy one of his new games, I would totally get it. But that's not what they're doing. They're building games without taking money from anyone (whether that's successful or not remains to be seen) and in the process they're giving restitution to the people John screwed over. What the hell is there in that to be upset about?
Hey now they are giving me a big FU in that those of us who took Jpop to court got the big FU treatment. Then Jpop counter sues because he claims if he had gotten the full money from everyone that he could have made the games. I'm sorry but Im not buying any of this free game crap.
Quoted from hank527:Then Jpop counter sues because he claims if he had gotten the full money from everyone that he could have made the games.
What an asshole.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/21?hl=grimdog and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
New York, NY
Singapore
Düsseldorf