(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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11 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 8731 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 175.
#51 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'll quote Ben heck "This can only end in tears."
Except for like 18 "lucky" Magic Girl owners I guess.

Pretty sure there was still tears. Tears of happiness when it finally arrived. A different kind of tears when they tried to play a game on it.

#52 2 years ago
Quoted from pin2d:

A little more info:
deeproot will soon be publicly releasing a web page that will include the background of their pinball division, Goodwill Terms for past Zidware customers, how to file a claim, details of the attempted settlement between deeproot and the Plaintiffs of the lawsuit against Zidware, and over twenty FAQs regarding deeproot.

More news that I just found out today - the deeproot website will go public TOMORROW when the interview posts.

21
#53 2 years ago

Wake me up when they're shipping a fully functional game in quantity, otherwise I've heard this story too many times already.

#54 2 years ago

He first thing they should do is change that gastly name.

Firstly in my part of the world the name has sexual connotations. It sounds like it should be the name of a brothel or a sex shop. And in other parts of the world one would assume that they are an agricultural company.

#55 2 years ago
Quoted from pin2d:

If I were owed something from Zidware though, and knowing that right now JPOP has no funds to pay back Zidware customers and no means to make the machines without help...if deeproot can provide restitution to those effected by JPOP's past mistakes, isn't that a good thing? Or is JPOP so hated that - even if deeproot makes those effected whole - since they hired him, they'll never be accepted in pinball?

Why would it work this time? He didn't know how to produce a game on his own, he fucked it all up with American Pinball...why would it be any different this time? Jpop, without an infrastructure of a pinball factory, engineers and proper management is incapable of doing anything. Why does Deeproot thing they can change him or complete his projects?

They're either super ignorant or super arrogant....or both.

#56 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Why would it work this time? He didn't know how to produce a game on his own, he fucked it all up with American Pinball...why would it be any different this time? Jpop, without an infrastructure of a pinball factory, engineers and proper management is incapable of doing anything. Why does Deeproot thing they can change him or complete his projects?
They're either super ignorant or super arrogant....or both.

I'm not saying it will work, I have no idea. My point is if I was owed something from JPOP, isn't it better that something is happening instead of nothing? A 5% chance I get a machine is better than 0% chance.

100% agree that JPOP needs an infrastructure of a pinball factory, needs engineers and needs proper management.

#57 2 years ago

I’d rather hear something than nothing.
I’ll hold out judgement on Deeproot till I hear their plan.

Thanks for the interview pin2d.

#58 2 years ago

I'd rather Zidware had declared bankruptcy, given pennies on the dollar to all their creditors, sold the IP to interested parties, and formally closed out the situation years ago (rather than sit and spend everything, when it was clear things wouldn't work; not to mention the pyramiding of RAZA and AiW into this mix of bad choices). But, I'm not a Zidware customer, either.

#59 2 years ago

deeproot interview article all set and scheduled for release tomorrow at 6:00 AM EST. Thanks all.

#60 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What's left for John to rob from the EM graveyard? Rototargets? Flipping Flags?

Maybe the Dodge City fan with projectoroto? Maybe that scoring swing-gate in the bumpers mounted parallel to the sides of the playfield.

#61 2 years ago
Quoted from pin2d:

deeproot interview article all set and scheduled for release tomorrow at 6:00 AM EST. Thanks all.

Fascinating. Link?

13
#62 2 years ago

THIS WEEK IN PINBALL **EXCLUSIVE interview with deeproot Pinball:

http://thisweekinpinball.com/exclusive-interview-deeproot-next-misadventure-pinball-revolution/

Please do not copy and paste the whole interview in the thread as website views are my only way to track interest, and I want to see if spending this much time on one post is "worth it". Thanks.

#63 2 years ago

This has to be my favourite line on the zidware.deeproot.com page
"All games will be designed and manufactured similar to the commonly known Williams/Bally/Zidware standards. "

I really didn't know Zidware has the same William/Bally standards...

#64 2 years ago

Can't believe no-one has commented on this yet:

******TWIP: Has pinsider Applejuice been paid in full for his work with Zidware? Is he owed a Magic Girl game?

dr: We have not heard from Applejuice. According to Zidware records that we have seen, Applejuice was paid over $100k, and has been in material breach of several terms of his agreement with Zidware for some time.*******

This does not exactly have the ring of truth to it ..... much like some of their other statements.

applejuice care to dignify this with a response?

14
#65 2 years ago

pin2d thanks very much for putting this together.

Personally I think it would have been smarter not to put all of this out in public. As a potential consumer of their product, I’m left with a very unfavorable picture of the company as both litigious and arrogant. If they really want their product to speak for itself, better to say nothing at all. Or better yet, a little humility would go a long way.

#66 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Can't believe no-one has commented on this yet:
******TWIP: Has pinsider Applejuice been paid in full for his work with Zidware? Is he owed a Magic Girl game?
dr: We have not heard from Applejuice. According to Zidware records that we have seen, Applejuice was paid over $100k, and has been in material breach of several terms of his agreement with Zidware for some time.*******
This does not exactly have the ring of truth to it ..... much like some of their other statements.
applejuice care to dignify this with a response?

Disgusting. Applejuice worked on this for years. Throwing out the $100k number seems like some sort of attempt to shame him or something, that he got more than enough money. The breach of terms I'm sure have everything to do with him finally coming out of the shadows and telling everyone the truth about what is going on. The only reason he did that was because he stopped getting paid for work he had already completed. And now they throw this final insult his way.

#67 2 years ago
Quoted from attack7:

I’m left with a very unfavorable picture of the company as both litigious and arrogant.

Not a whole lot of "feel good" in that interview.

#68 2 years ago

this page:

https://zidware.deeproottech.com/

is way too complicated and legalese for a non-lawyer like myself.

I have no idea what they are offering. I also see that they want proof of payments, and obviously most of us got jack shit from John for our money. He couldn't even provide statements when asked.

#69 2 years ago

Huge, bold claims in the interview.

Lets see if they can walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Will be following this story for sure!

#70 2 years ago
Quoted from pin2d:

THIS WEEK IN PINBALL **EXCLUSIVE interview with deeproot Pinball:

Thanks for the interview, at least some info came out. Amazing that this is Zidware attempt #4 now. (Original Zid, Pintasia, American Pinball and now Deeproot). John's reality distortion field is truly amazing.

#71 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

this page:
https://zidware.deeproottech.com/
is way too complicated and legalese for a non-lawyer like myself.
I have no idea what they are offering. I also see that they want proof of payments, and obviously most of us got jack shit from John for our money. He couldn't even provide statements when asked.

Surely no one paid him in cash.
So there would be paypal records, or bank statements that would prove that you paid him.

Well done pin2d, A lot of info in there. Glad to hear that ZY has agreed to terms. Still a long long long long ride to go for everyone else though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"TWIP: What options are on the table?

dr: In the many years I worked as an attorney, I found it hard to reason or negotiate with people who don’t know what they don’t know. According to Dhaval, their attorney has been looking at our proposed documents for three months now. We would prefer they sign the reasonable docs and go about their business selling Houdini’s to their hearts content without a disruption of their business with injunctive action."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. Yes! This is the best way to launch a company. To threaten to stop ANOTHER company from producing a pin with an injunction. Yikes. What a mess.

#72 2 years ago

Deeproot should have been drug tested after the interview

#73 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

John's reality distortion field is truly amazing.

John "Siren" Popaduik

ˈdʒɒn sʌɪr(ə) n/
noun

In Pinball mythology, the John Siren Popaduik (Greek singular: Σειρήν Seirēn; Greek plural: Σειρῆνες Seirēnes) was a dangerous creature, who lured nearby investors with his enchanting music, unfinished playfield designs, and foamcore mockups only to shipwreck them and cause them to lose hundreds of thousands of $$.

#74 2 years ago

Wow! New heights of cockiness.

#75 2 years ago

Great interview! They certainly aren't lacking in confidence, sheesh...What a crazy time to be in the hobby.

-Doug

12
#76 2 years ago

WOW! They passed on new designers because " it is hard to determine their ability to fit into a ‘structured R&D’ process" and went with JPOP instead? Isn't he pretty much the poster child for someone who is unable to function within the confines of a "‘structured R&D’ process"?

#77 2 years ago

I cannot imagine how a group of reasonable adults came to the conclusion that this would be the best way to get started in the Pinball manufacturing business. So many red flags have to be ignored and overlooked in order to proceed. I feel like I’m reading the script to en episode of “Air Disasters”.

19
#78 2 years ago

Nothing digs an early grave like overconfidence...

#79 2 years ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Nothing digs an early grave like overconfidence...

Timewarp back to Jpop circa 2012.

19
#80 2 years ago

TWIP: Do you have the capability, expertise, experience, and financial resources to manufacture pinball machines in large quantities?

dr: Sure. Why not?

FADE TO BLACK

narrator: they didn't

#81 2 years ago

"That’s what makes doing pinball so easy for us." - Deeproot guy.

I'm sure they'll never regret that.

#82 2 years ago

Apparently there's a fine line between confidence and Dunning-Kruger. Great interview though, nice to read a company interview that isn't a soft pedal.

#83 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Disgusting. Applejuice worked on this for years. Throwing out the $100k number seems like some sort of attempt to shame him or something, that he got more than enough money. The breach of terms I'm sure have everything to do with him finally coming out of the shadows and telling everyone the truth about what is going on. The only reason he did that was because he stopped getting paid for work he had already completed. And now they throw this final insult his way.

I don't know apple juice. I like the ring of that.

Anyways. I missed all this when it happened. Whatever it was.

The story sounds worth telling now... (Part of the puzzle)

#84 2 years ago

An interesting point to note--anyone who was in on the lawsuit against JPOP gets nothing.

Deeproot does sound arrogant and spends a fair amount of time trying to place blame everywhere.

Did they not realize they could have avoided the whole thing by not associating with JPOP at all?

13
#85 2 years ago

All I can say is WOW.

This deep root guy (as a side note, why are all the names of new pinball companies so terrible?) comes off as completely insane. Which makes sense that he and John get on like gangbusters.

Bunch of threats, bravado and dick waving, but nothing of substance.

Zidware 2.0. Get those deposits ready!

#86 2 years ago

That interview delivered!!!

Eagerly awaiting this promised "masterpiece!"

#87 2 years ago

As a foolish RAZA buyer ($4,750)... I'll be watching this unfold daily.

#88 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That interview delivered!!!
Eagerly awaiting this promised "masterpiece!"

Don't forget Ferrari quality at the cost of a KIA.

Guess I'm just a "pessimist" though.

#89 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Don't forget Ferrari quality at the cost of a KIA.

No, the absolute best quote in that whole dumpster fire was "easy as pinball". Seriously, those are words that will go down in JPOP history as legendary.

#90 2 years ago

Wow, what an arrogant piece of shit. I felt like I was reading an interview with a cult leader. "The masterpiece".

Arrogance and bravado might have worked for him in the past....good luck with this one, a$$hole.

#91 2 years ago

The more I think about it, the more I'm dumbfounded that these guys wanted to work with and associate with JPOP.

Personally, I have 3-4 game designs sketched out. I'm sure most enthusiasts have doodled some design of their own. It's not that hard to find someone with ideas. If anyone wanders into the homebrew forums here or on other pinball sites, there is a remarkable abundance of talent and interesting designs.

Deeproot could have easily avoided all the unnecessary baggage that came with JPOP. Yet the minute they discovered what a hot potato he was, they doubled down?

And then left the victims who decided to do something about their predicament completely out in the cold?

I'm certainly not getting a warm fuzzy feeling from these guys.

#92 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

An interesting point to note--anyone who was in on the lawsuit against JPOP gets nothing.
Deeproot does sound arrogant and spends a fair amount of time trying to place blame everywhere.
Did they not realize they could have avoided the whole thing by not associating with JPOP at all?

I don't know enough of the big picture on this but have a small thought.

Maybe American Pinball and now DeepRoot see intrinsic value in Hiring Jpop.

What do you think it costs to engineer a pinball machine?
What do you think it costs to engineer/design 3 pinball machines?

If you get the rights to this work by hiring Jpop for the price of his baggage, I see why these folks are interested.
How many games does Jpop really "Owe" anyone? 100?
If Deeproot could deliver 100 games for 3K each that's $300,000.

Maybe $300,000 is a good deal to have 3 games designed and engineered?
Just guessing at these numbers...

10
#93 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

No, the absolute best quote in that whole dumpster fire was "easy as pinball". Seriously, those are words that will go down in JPOP history as legendary.

It funny, because Jersey Jack said the complete opposite when being interviewed about Dialed In.

What was the hardest Part?
Jack: "EVERYTHING"

#94 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

What do you think it costs to engineer a pinball machine?
What do you think it costs to engineer/design 3 pinball machines?

Except you're only getting designs. MG didn't work because it wasn't properly engineered (or finished). I don't know that the PF design for RAZA was actually finished, let alone engineered to shoot/work. And AIW is just concepts, most likely.

#95 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

If you get the rights to this work by hiring Jpop for the price of his baggage, I see why these folks are interested.

He's so completely toxic in the pinball world, he's radioactive. It's a PR nightmare. For a company just looking to start out in the industry, it's a very foolish thing to do--to take on the debt of zidware and the toxic reputation of JPOP.

Two other companies failed to complete JPOP's games before deeproot. (Granted, though American Pinball did managed to stumble out with a barely functional MG)

Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

How many games does Jpop really "Owe" anyone? 100?

500+?

Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

Maybe $300,000 is a good deal to have 3 games designed and engineered?

The games are half baked and nowhere near being a real, complete, fully-featured machine. None of them were finished--they were just some initial concepts for the most part.

Ideas are plentiful. You can go to just about anyone else and buy their idea for a lot less than the cost and PR mess that JPOP brings. But, we all know JPOP can talk a good talk, and has been able to hoodwink quite a lot of people. It's astounding that it continues to happen.

#96 2 years ago

Absolutely everything about this whole situation screams "run away".

#97 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

...If anyone wanders into the homebrew forums here or on other pinball sites, there is a remarkable abundance of talent and designs.

Agreed, No need for Jpop.
When I decide to open up my pinball company I’ll just release Wrath of Olympus!!!
Looks awesome.

#98 2 years ago

I don't know about you guys but I'm psyched for "the 5 days of deeproot"!!!!

#99 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That interview delivered!!!

Not yet. Send money.

IMG_3772 (resized).JPG

#100 2 years ago
Quoted from oohlou:

I don't know about you guys but I'm psyched for "the 5 days of deeproot"!!!!

If it's five days of bullshit as tasty as that interview I seriously cannot wait!

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