Prepare to be deep- rooted!
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Quality of a Ferrari at a Kia price. Can't wait to see it.
To be fair, the Kia requires much less maintenance than the Ferrari.
So what you end up with is a cheap, high maintenance machine is what I think they are getting at.
Quoted from Tsskinne:Can't imagine uprooting my life to head to Texas for these promises
On the plus or minus side, you could end up deep rooted there.
Quoted from frolic:Answering my own question, 2.4 million from 19 people. To get people to cough up $2.4 million, you're going to lay on the hype.
And they are probably all betting that they will get the first RAZAs off the line.
Quoted from kermit24:This company reminds me of a hybrid between Dutch and Highway Pinball
Quoted from Makakka:I applaude every published business decision deeproot made because deeproot not only showed their business experience but also their brilliant analysis of the market.
Quoted from Makakka:genius pinball gaze noone
Quoted from deeproot:you can thank me for Elvira 3.
Quoted from scampcamp:I really believe The Bible has to be 1 of the best pinball themed ideas ever !
Shame they won't ever be able to pimp it on this website as they have already stated in the interview it is a religious theme.
Maybe they can try to sell it on vatican.com instead.
Quoted from Ericc123:In my defense I blame the auto correct on my phone.
Are you refering to the auto incorect feture?
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Can you guess which one is missing? Hint - it is not one of those mentioned.
Kiss?
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:That was black ink on white background for artwork. Foamcore that was ready to be made into a whitewood.
It was actually made into one machine, if I remember correctly.
Quoted from brucipher:They specifically said they are happy to add John's Houdini design to its portfolio of games. That doesn't mean they were planning to make Houdini.
Does this mean we may finally be getting that Marshall Brodien pinball machine?
Quoted from Rockytop:This is going to be interesting to watch.
In my opinion, for this to even have a chance to succeed they would have to:
- Make everyone whole. Pay people back that are owed money/games from the Zidware deal
- Fix the MG games that did go out
- Make an absolutely incredible pin that was so good people might overlook all the baggage.
Even then, it might not go well.
Perhaps they should partner with Dutch and Heighway, and if they pool all their resources they could make everybody whole.
Quoted from Aurich:Starting a new company by inheriting a bunch of debt from something you had nothing to do with, along with the con artist who ran with all the money, what could go wrong?
Did you ever hear about Jonestown? That sounds like the kind of Kool Aid somebody will be drinking.
1 week later
I'm just happy this super strong pinball economy will be able to support all these new machines they are talking about making, along with all the other manufacturers out there.
Quoted from daudioguy:Throwing away lifetimes of experience is unwise.
No doubt!
I mean where would we be if bands like Kiss and Aerosmith were no longer contributing to the wonderful world of rock music.
Quoted from Mr68:Have you seen the picture of Steven Tyler shirtless on beach?
I had to do a double take on that one. At first I thought it was Liv Tyler.
Quoted from CNKay:The only product I fully believe in currently is the hardtop product with image art under protective surface and adhesive back holding it all in place.
Nice!
Just like full playfield mylar where it is the glue underneath that you can't polish to a shine after it starts to dull with age.
Quoted from iceman44:Realistically they are going to have to knock out a few competitors with whatever advantages they think they have somehow.
Quoted from iceman44:Consider me impressed with all the effort and money blown so far.
I'm just amazed that they probably think there are more than 100 people that will buy their pinball product.
Quoted from iceman44:I will say JJP nearly went down the tubes because they overestimated revenues and underestimated costs over several years.
To be fair to JJP, they only announced and concentrated on one title until they got things rolling.
Anytime I see a company that is talking about multiple titles and big future before one prototype is even playable, I'm a little skeptical.
Quoted from LTG:No reason to be skeptical, wasn't it posted they won't be doing prototypes ?
LTG : )
Good point LTG. Why do any prototypes, when you can work on four different titles at once.
I'll admit, I'm really excited.
I'd like to get a little more insight into the time frame before all the projects they are talking about hit the market.
Quoted from iceman44:Did RD just run through your screen door again?
No, but a little birdy told me instead of Houdini there is a good chance we might finally get that Egyptian Magician pinball machine before the end of the decade.
Quoted from iceman44:So you are saying by 2020?
Jerky Boys were big in the 90s, so that sounds about right.
1 week later
I think it's great that they will be able to make all of zidware's customers whole before taking a dime from any other customer if I read it right.
That's forward thinking!
4 months later
I aint seen nothing yet.
All I see is talk about Ferraris at Yugo prices, and a mention of a $50,000 game that I would never want in the first place.
Quoted from iceman44:Hard to believe the patents are worth anything
download (3) (resized).jpgQuoted from jeffspinballpalace:Pinball manufacturers better not plan on selling more than 1k to 2k machines of any given game in this market. By March 2019 at TPF, there may be up to 5 titles available from DR. Stern will offer 3 - Maiden, a new title and with one more announced. AP will have 1 with their second release. Spooky will have 1 with ACNC. JJP have 1 with POTC. Finally CC will have 2 - AFMr and MBr. 13 new games vying for buyers. What if every one of them is off the charts perfect?
Or what if the stock market and economy tanks and we go into another deep recession?
This whole dream is living on borrowed time IMO.
3 weeks later
Quoted from iceman44:It wouldn’t help DR necessarily. I guarantee you investors don’t want a tax write off Odiner
They want to pay a shitload of tax. Means they made a shitload of profit
Sure, but when a company throws a shitload of good money after bad and then the vision fails and they decide to cut their losses, at least it becomes beneficial at tax time.
Quoted from iceman44:If you chose not to settle then you expect to get your $$ back out of Jpop, not DR after the fact
I expect to see pictures of new pinball machines for sale from new companies on pinball forums. Not this same old song and dance.
Quoted from iceman44:The shareholders/investors get the benefit of the loss and only at $3k per yr plus offsetting other gains
Better than that final poke in the eye with a sharp stick!
Quoted from bob_e:First you have to make a PROFIT for tax write off.
"The end result defines us: solid alternative investment funds that are designed to keep pace with or outperform traditional investments without taking on unnecessary, unpredictable risk."
Quoted from Brijam:Unpredictable risk sounds attractive... but in pinball?
"investments without taking on unnecessary, unpredictable risk."
Quoted from Brijam:What I meant to imply: pinball is the poster child of unnecessary, unpredictable risk.
What I meant to imply: tax write off.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:The one who can't be named cause it gets you permabanned.
Not everyone apparently. It wasn't that long ago a thread appeared on the main page with that knuckelhead buddying up to and putting his arms around of all people, Robin. Started by a moderator here I believe.
Buried or deleted in the depths of the basement now somewhere....
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Copperfield is expensive!
Maybe they'll go with Brodien instead.
51QsXMntxtL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_ (resized).jpgQuoted from LTG:they aren't asking for up front money.
Perhaps. But as stated on their website, they may be getting their money from investors just the same.
"solid alternative investment funds that are designed to keep pace with or outperform traditional investments without taking on unnecessary, unpredictable risk."
Quoted from Fulltilt:And??.. they are called “investors” for a reason. That’s n.o.t. customers.
Yes, I equate somebody investing money in a company the same as providing up front money which obviously they didn't get without asking for it in some way. Unless they are not using investors money and are using their own from another source instead.
But feel free to tell my if I am wrong. Trust me, it won't hurt my feelings one bit.
Quoted from LTG:They aren't in here begging for huge deposits on future games if you want one.
Yeah, I get that as what you meant.
I just had to be Johnny obvious and point out somebody else's investment money is probably at stake here unless Deeproot is strictly using their own. There are a few articles about them as an investment firm but looks like they have only been around for about five years.
Quoted from Fulltilt:I suppose I was going from the position of being a 'customer' for Zidware, not investing in Jpop's company. I didn't anticipate returns, revenue, profit sharing, etc. My contract with John cited me as a "purchaser". I anticipated the product I purchased.
I'm thinking of investing in deeproot, so I can really cash in.
Quoted from PinBackpacker:It's not going to cost anyone anything to find out.
Perhaps
According to this article from Aug. 2016-
"In 2014, the company tried to sell two different funds, all debt offerings with various minimum investments to no avail. In 2015, the company issued deeproot Pinball LLC, which offered $6 million of equity with a minimum investment of $25,000 but hasn't reported raising any money for that either. That same year, the company attempted to sell another equity offering called deeproot 575 fund LLC but didn't attract any investors."
But apparently they had attracted some investors and raised a few million dollars betting on life insurance.
Not really finding anymore recent information, but it sounds like they must have really turned the corner since then.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:as stupid as it was to preorder WOZ from a new company on their first pinball, some took it further and paid in full to to get free shipping. In spite of the roller coaster ride, all received their games. So $6.5k delivered for nib WOZ and no sales tax. Boom! a when-pigs-fly success story with a jackpot at the end of the rainbow.
It might have been even stupider to put that money in Apple stock at the time, eh?
Quoted from 27dnast:What IF they start bringing games to market that are feature rich and cost at or less than a Stern Pro?
I''m sorta looking forward to seeing that $50,000 pinball machine that was previously mentioned.
Quoted from Brijam:The history of pinball and video games is full of out of the box thinking - some of it flops, and some of it opens up new markets.
Take Capcom for example. They just charged into pinball production while it was booming in the mid 90s. And the rest as they say, is history.
Quoted from LTG:More like Capcom charged in when pinball production was on the roller coaster to hell. By the mid 90s pinball was in serious decline. Sales dropping, production dropping, factories closing or would soon.
LTG : )
Let me rephrase that then- "Capcom charged into pinball production a few years after the peak of the 90s pinball boom that only lasted a couple of years"
I guess the point is if you are starting another company during a pinball boom it is probably best to get the games out there before that boom starts petering out or you end up in a situation like Capcom. Lots of great ideas and promise, but just a little late to the game.
Quoted from 27dnast:Great point about TNA not needing a display
You don't need a display when you've got a tank on the backglass. 
Quoted from benheck:Also why put an LCD on a game when everyone is carrying a smart phone in their pocket?
I have no idea what you are talking about.
download (1) (resized).jpgQuoted from jeffspinballpalace:could deeproot be a cult?
I hear about all these pinball people going there. Designers, engineers etc all go, but then are not seen from again. Add that we've seen no products. What is really going in there?? Not even day 1 of deeproot. Is Robert washing their brains and reprogramming it's followers?
Their website is chock full of information for inquiring minds that would like to know.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Am I sensing a positive opinion shift for Deeproot on Pinside??
Yes, as they do have a functional website, and that is one of the most important things pinsiders need to give them confidence in any company.
1 week later
I think after the three year drought since Whoa Nellie, and the many years before, that is what most of us are hoping for.
Quoted from JodyG:How many times is Odin going to complain about G rated pins this week?
I bet your mommy won't even let you go see a PG movie.
1 week later
Edit- beat me to it! ^^^^
Quoted from YKpinballer:If somebody could dig a little deeper and get a real idea of Mr. Mueller’s background and track record I would be happy to have my fears allayed.
What are you fearing? Are you one of the investors in their pinball division, and were you not told the money you invested would be used for pinball development?
Quoted from YKpinballer:What do you have against more information?
Nothing. But I don't pry into other people's business, if they don't want to tell me more. If I was considering being an investor, I would take what info was out there and try to make an educated decision from that.
Quoted from o-din:"The end result defines us: solid alternative investment funds that are designed to keep pace with or outperform traditional investments without taking on unnecessary, unpredictable risk."
Quoted from YKpinballer:See this doesn’t seem to jive with what they are doing in pinball IMHO
Yes, apparently their pinball investors are feeling more confident now than when it was first offered, like some of the other funds they presented with no takers.
More along the lines of the the insurance funds they have sold in the last couple years, which apparently are doing pretty well. There are articles written about all of this.
Quoted from mcbPalisade:Looks like you have to subscribe to read this, what does it say?
No subscription necessary. You just need to click stop loading the page before it goes into subscription mode and deletes most of the text, and it is all there, along with several other articles available from the same publication.
This one mentions the pinball and some of the earlier investment opportunities they offered up. Just click stop before the page fully loads.
Quoted from iceman44:The money is coming through investment advisers selling this project to accredited investors. Obviously as a high risk alternative asset class
The advisers got paid over $400k for raising that $ or what looks to be an 8% commission
Either way, they are funded quite well and like I said the facility/offices are substantial and ready to pump out a large quantity of pins!
We could have another major competitor here
Those that invested with them in insurance funds and not pinball funds are going to feel pretty shortchanged when all this starts to take off and the big profits start rolling in.
4 weeks later
Quoted from benheck:"Oh I toured Stern once. They were still using wires. It was cute"
"More wires than a Ford Taurus"
Quoted from benheck:A big roadblock in the advancement of pinball are the customers.
No doubt!
You've got a bunch of people that think Back to the Future and Goonies are still a thing.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:they object to being forced to spend $350 for a new board instead of 30 cents for the failed component.
Some of you just don't want to support the growth of this hobby, now do you? 
Quoted from benheck:Can be placed by robot
All we need now are the robots that can fix this shit.
tallman_05 (resized).jpgQuoted from Jjsmooth:Haha.. and Munsters.
Holy crap.
Next up- Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best pinball game.
Quoted from Andy_B:Got to be...
Warriors was 1979, not 80s.
I remember the release and there were near riots in some of the theaters. Today it looks more like comedy, but back then, they took it seriously
Quoted from fishbone:Could we stop the movie nostalgia marathon and return to talking about Deeproot?
Pretty please?
Thank you.
Sure! Here's the latest news-
They had recently had a party in the break room, celebrating landing a major license. (TEASER: The license is an 80s movie many people have been craving!)
You're welcome.
1 week later
Quoted from rubberducks:Well, Mueller claims they're going to release more machines in 2019 than any manufacturer has in a year, in the history of the industry. He didn't say Stern era, or even solid state or DMD era.
That's a pretty tall order considering Gottlieb released 14 titles in 1935 alone.
Quoted from rubberducks:The market WILL crash if there's a serious economic shock ... and one looks due in the next 2 years.
Look no further than November 2020.
Quoted from rubberducks:It's hyperbole. But I think we can assume he's probably aiming at more than 5.
it also means you won't be able to believe anything he says if they don't do 15.
Heck, I didn't even check all makers and years. 1935 was a random guess.
Quoted from toyotaboy:unfair comparison. that was after the market crash and thise 14 titles would be played on route for pennies (not collected in the home) as an escape from misery.. most of those games were very simple and none of them had electricity yet so it would be easy to push out a bunch of titles quickly.
!940 then. The depression was over and games all ran with electricity. Still 14 titles and he did say "in the history of the industry".
I guess there is the offhand chance he doesn't know much about the history of the industry. In that case it may be better to say nothing of the kind, than making it up as he goes.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:why'd noone do this?
Same reason as usual. Because he can.
55-48095-peter-noone-singer-1522706731 (resized).jpgQuoted from Shapeshifter:1955-11 Frontiersman Gottlieb EM 1,000
Oooo, that's a good one! One of my favorites. Play it all the time.
They'll never make a game like that again, and I'm guessing we'll never see a similar backglass like it again.
Quoted from jimjim66:That's Peter Noone from Herman Hermits, a big band from the 60's.
After Beatles comes out, expect noone to get a new rock themed pinball game.
1 week later
All I'm hoping is that somebody steps up and makes a game about a horny monkey.
If that turns out to be deeproot, then more power to them.
Quoted from Robotoes:Why don’t they have a Facebook?
Better things to do with their time?
1 month later
Quoted from pin2d:deeproot Pinball's launch has been postponed - find the details here:
Well, hopefully it happens while the overall economy is still on fire.
This is the most impressive statement in the whole interview-
"using additional time making sure launch titles are code and AV complete"
Quoted from ForceFlow:But, I don't have any money down on the venture, so they can do whatever they want.
Like you, I'd probably rather eat kryptonite than be one of the investors in this venture.
Quoted from Jerryuop:None of us have given them any money yet
Well, somebody must have. After all they are an investment company.
And those investors must really love pinball and/or think it is/was an excellent way to get big returns.
Quoted from adol75:They haven't taken clients money
It must have come out of thin air then.
I've also heard with the right fertilizer, it will also grow on trees.
Quoted from fosaisu:Is that what you're working on with the avocado grove now?
If squirrels could eat money, there wouldn't be much of that left either.
Quoted from adol75:Do I really need to explain the difference between a client and an investor ?
I looked up client-
"a person or organization using the services of a lawyer or other professional person or company."
Quoted from johnnyutah:I’m still excited to see what Deeproot has to offer in the future.
Why wait?
They have several other investment opportunities beside pinball already available.
7 months later
Quoted from goingincirclez:To invoke a Cargument
I know that some dudes like to put a Chevy engine in a Ford. But rarely want to put the Ford engine back.
Quoted from Jjsmooth:But no one puts that shit in a mopar
True, but doesn't mopar already have an engine swap kit for their '34 Highboy?
Quoted from jonesjb:is Deeproot still committed to shipping more pins in 2019 than any other company?
Anybody that believes that should probably be committed.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:O-din - nice to see you back on pinside.
Thanks! Holding your tongue for 7 months isn't exactly the easiest thing to do, especially around here. 
Quoted from jonesjb:So Deeproot retracted that statement?
I honestly haven't paid much attention except being 2019 is more than half over, it would be quite a miracle.
Quoted from Fulltilt:What's that got to do with buying pins?
Look at how many companies there were and how many new pins were sold in 2008. This new pinball buying frenzy of the last 5 or so years seems to be going hand in hand with the strong, growing economy. I can't imagine another big recession will be good for new pinball manufacturing especially with the amount of games that have flooded the market in recent years.
Quoted from LTG:the comment "outdated and uninspired pinball package as it exists in the market today".
I read that. And then I also read they are proud to be doing a licensed theme from the 80s. And Raza will take you back to the 80s.
Quoted from teekee:Well if he refunds all those who asked for refunds then his public relations would go up tenfold. Actions speak louder than words... sounds like someone above got their refund so they just might be the real deal after all!
I'm sure their investor team is pleased as well.
I gotta say compared to Tesla, Deeproot is looking like quite the investment opportunity right now. Must be getting time to liquidate all that gold.
Quoted from HighProtein:When is the 1st of 5 days of deeproot now?
On the first day, Deeproot created hype and it was good.
On the second day, they announced they were bringing several old designers out of retirement and it was sorta good.
On the third day, they announced they would be bringing more games to market than the rest of the industry and it was real good.
On the fourth day, they announced they would not be outdated like the rest of the industry, and it was not so good.
On the fifth day, they started sending out piles of money and again it was good.
Stay tuned for the next five days...
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Actually I like all 5 and you even forgot the Ferrari for a Fiat pricetag and the Sledgrhammer!
I only had five days to work with....
Quoted from DS_Nadine:and the Sledgrhammer!
On the sixth day, deeproot announced they had secured a most desired license from the 1980s and it was super good.
51FRMGBD7VL (resized).jpgQuoted from littlecammi:But Pinsiders bitched because the pin was based too much on Season 2 and they thought Season 1 was better.
Hopefully it will have a wizard mode with the never shown until later show finale.
Quoted from Calfdemon:Too bad this is only a joke as this would actually be a grail theme for me if it was really made! My buddies and I used to watch Sledgehammer religiously. The laugh track drove me crazy, but the show itself was great!
I'm hoping it's not a joke. It would be my first pinball purchase. 
Quoted from vicjw66:I loved that show as a kid, but there is no way it would ever be made. Too obscure.
Well, if it ends up being Full House or Family Ties, I aint buying it.
Quoted from tbutler6:Lots of people already unloading games cheap for Stern Jurassic Park...
Pretty standard. Next they will be unloading that one for Elvira, then Elvira for Reo Speedwagon, and so on and so on....
Lotta short attention span in this hobby.
Quoted from badbilly27:So pissed by what happened I stopped opening threads on the topic to keep my blood pressure stabilized. Crap.
It's like a soap opera, man.
But, real sorry you missed out while it was raining all those Benjamins.
Yeah, I was pretty sure Sledge Hammer! would have been done long before that due date.
As far as payouts, as long as the money was coming from other investors and not pinsiders, I had total faith.
Why has everything always gotta be about trolling around here when you disagree or don't believe someone.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I just can't believe that someone after all this months didn't hear the ongoing "deadline for claims is by".
Even I haven't been glued to this thread as much as you have.
Quoted from Rondogg:Today I learned: there is a moderator on Pinside who is unaware that deeproot was offering refunds. Isn't this general knowledge at this point?
i guess even some moderators have a hard time sifting through 90 pages of nothing.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:That show had a laugh track?!
Quoted from Calfdemon:Oh yeah, I have all of the original episodes which was unfortunately only 2 seasons before they got cancelled.. But the original English version has the obnoxious laugh track. I wish they would have dumped it when the re-released the episodes for DVD.
Anchor Bay copies of SH has Alan Spencer on camera specifically stating that they removed the laugh track so fans can laugh when they want to as opposed to where they “should.”
thumbnail_image1 (resized).jpgthumbnail_image2 (resized).jpgSeriously, with all the retro going on in pinball right now, can anybody think of a real good reason why Sledge Hammer! would not be a great pinball theme?
It's got fans now that weren't even alive when the show first aired. I was one of the ones that watched every episode when it did.
Quoted from Calfdemon:O-din, thanks for posting that.
You can thank Nimblepin who is still on hiatus. I just watched the show. Turns out he is one of the FANatics. But for me, in the wasteland that was 80s TV, it was the best.
A little research shows it aired Thursday night on ABC at 8:OO PM. It looks like it might have originally went up against Cosby on NBC and Simon and Simon on CBS. I didn't really care for either one of those, so Sledge was on at the perfect time. My roommate and I were 24 and 25, and it was the perfect humor for the likes of us.
Later CBS put the new Twilight Zone in the same time spot and I've been wondering why I never watched it. Now I know, but I've been taking it all in on MeTV now. Some pretty good episodes of that one.
Quoted from fosaisu:I missed Sledge Hammer! in the 80s (didn't have a TV), but all of this talk inspired me to take the plunge. Season One on eBay ran me $4.99 shipped, seemed like a tolerable risk. I saw a few reviews comparing it to Brisco County Jr., hope it lives up to the hype.
I'm looking forward to your review! I gotta borrow nimblepin's and watch it all again too. I've taken in a bit on youtube, but that isn't the same.
Quoted from TheLaw:First season is decent due to heavy hitters involved, then it falls off huge. Even Season 3 when J. Michael Straczynski writes a bunch they are still mediocre.
I watched one last night where the space cargo ship had to jettison a teenage girl stowaway. The one where the Vietnam vet took the war to a diner was the bomb.
Quoted from TheLaw:Dammit I missed that one, William Friedkin directed! Did you just watch that? I didn;t think METV had swung back around to season 1 yet...I've been waiting.
I think it started with season one a month or so ago when I saw it. Yeah they are in the later seasons now.
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:Not sure what We are even talking about at this Point.
Deeproot's the one that first mentioned Sledgehammer, not me.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Liked Sledgehammer but of all 80's ish Shows I'd pick Knight Rider.
I was a little too old to take that show seriously at the time. I can see how it amused the kids though. It was kind of like Hardcastle and Fuckstick, or whatever it was called.
I was all about MacGyver though.
On the west coast it came on right after Monday Night Football, and in many cases it was better than the game we had just watched.
I even thought about taking a "Bring On MacGyver!" sign to a Monday night Rams game to hang over the railing near the end of the game.
One of Terry Bradshaw's first TV roles after football beside those Zerex antifreeze ads he did was on Hardcastle and McCormick. He got shot and killed in like the first 5 minutes. lol.
Quoted from WolfManCat:At the young age of 5 I spent Thursday night trying to convince my older sisters to turn on Sledge Hammer!
They probably wanted to watch Cosby. Total chick show of it's time. No cool dudes I knew watched it.
--------
"I'm going to be a big star someday!"
The dude even had some hair left on top at that time.
H+M (resized).jpg
Quoted from chad:What's that Fred?
Works for me! lol.
Near the end, his partner looked like she might have had a substance abuse problem or something.
My apologies to Stepfanie Kramer.
A little research shows she kept on being productive well after Hunter. Perhaps at the time she just looked a little stressed is was I noticed.
Quoted from razorsedge:Indeed last time I checked pinball is a 3D game. Taking pinball to the next dimension? ... how ironic Lol
"Jetting you back to the 80s" sounds kind of ironic coming from someone that said they would not be outdated like the rest of the industry.
As long as Sledge Hammer! is in the works, I can let that slide. Only if.
Nimblepin brought over his box set and we watched the pilot episode the other night. Good stuff!
I'm not sure if some of that humor would fly on TV today.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Recently watched an episode of the "Prince from Bel Air"
I saw that one. lol.
In that Sledge Hammer! loudener clip that was posted a few pages back, you can clearly see him flipping the bird as he rubs his eye. All kinds of little things like that sometimes take a second watch to notice.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Errr.. Toyota.
is better than both those pieces. lol
I'm not going to go back through 92 pages of nothing to find what Italian sports car deeproot is trying to sell us. From what I understand they don't even have a dealership or a showroom yet.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Why not get some happiness from playing pinball instead of insanely ridiculous trolling?
h2E63134A.gifQuoted from NoQuarters:Remember the Pinto and Pacer ? Those were gorgeous and wonderfully engineered.
How could I forget. You could make a big sandwich in the back of a Pacer.
Quoted from Extraballz:Deeproot what ever you do make sure your PF’s are good. Otherwise you may be dead on arrival.
Nah. If it is somebody's "dream theme", they will buy it sight unseen with joy and piles of cash. And then save the bitching for later on pinside. Probably still won't stop them from buying another.
Quoted from Fulltilt:My "dream theme" will be to get my RAZA and a second machine DR is giving me for the money I lost with Jpop.
My dream theme is Sledge Hammer!, and I hope that's one of the second games you have to choose from.
Quoted from dc2010:What no Highlander ?
Highlander is a cool movie, but there have been enough fantasy themed games lately, and humor is what is really missing.
What was the last game that had a good sense of humor besides those making them laughing all the way to the bank and at those that think they deserve new playfields ?
Quoted from dc2010:No, there have been enough music pins lately,
If we're going to discuss Slede Hammer or Matrix etc.... Why not Highlander?
You just answered your own question. A Highlander would have to have music by Queen and that would make it another music pin with a fantasy theme. Same thing.. But you are free to discuss anything. Noone's holding you back.
There is a reason Medieval Madness is maybe the most beloved game since the DMD era began and it's not that pissed off ugly king on the translite. One major thing sets it apart.
Humor
Quoted from Mr68:Another casualty of Pinside?
In my experience, usually it's the user's own doing. One way or another.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Hmmm.... Dirty Harry Re-Theme!
No. I already have a Dirty Harry.
That would be like owning a WNBJM and one of those other games made with it's leftover parts.
Quoted from Mr68:The TNA playfield issue was quickly resolved by Spooky and Charlie owned up to it.
Indeed! The clearcoat and wood was the best I have seen on any newer game. That wasn't what caused the problem. Not sure it's my place to say what it was.
Quoted from dc2010:They aren't making Sledgehammer lol
How would you know?
From where I'm sitting they haven't made anything yet. Except a few drawings like girls in my kindergarten class used to do.
Quoted from vicjw66:I also bought TSPP NIB and it never had a dimple or any other issues with the playfield when I owned it. My NIB TWD premium playfield looks like the surface of the moon.
Yes, I think those of us that don't wear the NIB or fanboy goggles have figured out this whole "all playfields will extremely dimple and smooth out with time" is a total crock of shit.
Quoted from flynnibus:Look at these tz photos... see all the black dots and changes in gloss when you zoom in? Those are low points in the sanding...aka divots.
Is that a repro or did you get that from vid's collection? He must have bought all the seconds and rejects back in the day. But hey, if the price is right...
Quoted from flynnibus::p
my game from the 90s which I had fully broken down 2 years ago.
After I looked a little closer a lot of what I saw was actually part of the artwork.
On BM66 it makes it so you can't see the artwork.
Quoted from PismoArcade:I bought my TSPP NIB and played it nonstop. When I sold it earlier this year, the playfield looked perfect. Not one dimple.
On the other hand my BM66 was a dimple fest to the point that even my non pinhead friends commented about it.
Quoted from vicjw66:I also bought TSPP NIB and it never had a dimple or any other issues with the playfield when I owned it. My NIB TWD premium playfield looks like the surface of the moon.
Interesting how during the lean years, they were able to put out a better product than now during this boom. Perhaps they had to to stay alive.
And I'm wondering when deeproot is going to show some art beyond these sketches that will actually sell pinball games.
Quoted from dc2010:November 15th would be a guess
Hopefully these sketches are just for some comic book and won't appear on expensive pinball machines.
Quoted from kvan99:I just want to chime in and ask where the f@ck where you guys hiding when I was fighting this dimple battle in the other threads? Well better late than never...pfft
You know I was with you there brother! Back then it was a little tough to out spam the "voice of reason".
I wonder how many of those that vocally denied playfield cratering was a problem, which to me was fair warning, are now stuck with blistering and chipping playfields and are bitching about that. Serves em right!
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Its very clear you were not properly arguing your dimple issues in the correct thread like this Deeproot one.
Can't say I didn't try.
Quoted from Lamprey:steel is harder than wood
Surprised with all the pinballs I've dropped, they don't put a dent in my oak hardwood floor. Or how, although not steel, a 100 MPH fastball won't dent a wooden bat.
Quoted from vicjw66:To the people who say that old playfields have just evened out after thousands of dimples and essentially compressed the wood everywhere on the playfield so it will not dimple anymore I ask, why don’t manufacturers just compress the playfields in order to harden the wood so no more dimpling can occur?
I always just ask why is it compressed now all the way to the posts, when the ball can only get within a half inch of them. Oh, then we have those pesky inserts that although not wood, still seem to compress at the same rate.
Quoted from Lamprey:I like it! Replace the laminated plywood playfields with solid oak!
You'd have to double the thickness of my oak floor, then of course it would be more prone to cratering.
It just baffles me that some people don't even trust their own eyes enough that they would rather base their beliefs on a science project. Such is their life.
Quoted from BigT:problems happen when demand exceeds production.
I thought about that after that post. They are churning them out now, and no time to slow down. One will lead to the other though. That is inevitable.
Perhaps deeproot will bring at least one game to the table before the whole industry slows to a crawl.
I agree with what you said about the soft wood as clear coat is made to flex just like on a car, however
Quoted from Manic:Back in the day there would be the occasional soft PF but it would be an aberration . I experienced this when a distributor miraculously gave me a full refund for a NIB CV that had the softest wood I'd ever seen. The next new one I bought was fine..
Quoted from Manic:TWD is one of my fav games but I've had to accept that PF in certain areas will always look like the surface of the moon. Not a huge deal but it reminds me of that CV's soft wood.
You like many other are now accepting lessor quality wood that at one time you would not. So
Quoted from Manic:Now if they were talking about the recent wrinkling and chipping around the posts on these new machines... yeah that would indeed be "failure of the top coat"
You gotta admit... with this current situation that leads to bare wood on new PF's our attention to dimpling seems rather quaint in comparison.
If soft wood and dimpling are OK with the consumer, than why would a lessor clear coat be not?
Quoted from Manic:You went out and bought BM66
I must have been on glue
Quoted from wolfemaaan:please bring back Sledgehammer
Unknown (resized).jpgQuoted from Manic:Like when we furiously built model car and airplane kits as kids. Not knowing the high was the real addiction.
Testors was the shit. That DuPont crap just made a mess.
Quoted from mrbillishere:Showing off art in lieu of something physically operational is so jpopian it's sad.
I'm not sure showing off is the correct phrase.
Quoted from jonesjb:Nah, I’ll keep asking, as I feel. Even more so when I don’t see an answer. I’ve posted many times, and I have yet to hear anything that clarifies or retracts the 2019 pinball gusto.
You should PM deeproot directly.
And while you're at it, I'm sure he is willing to take more investment money to keep this project on track.
Quoted from NoQuarters:Heck, o-din has posted as much useful substance as anybody.
I'm working on starting up my own investment company.
Just send me your dream themes and your money, and I will put together the best team of cartoon artists in the neighborhood I can find.
Quoted from ZNET:I had the winky-dink kit. It was the progenitor of what would become the video game.
I was too cheap to buy the kit that included the TV screen cover, but I did have a box of crayons.
This new pinball release model that will replace the outdated model of showing entire games ready to play upon release is super exciting.
Quoted from Fulltilt:And Popadiuk didn't make a comment in that thread.
He had bigger priorities.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/worlds-best-pinball-factory
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-tech-position
A ten year playfield warranty sounds great, but who do you submit a claim to if deeproot pinball goes under in two or less after you buy a machine?
Quoted from TheCapn:If a PF lasts two years without defects then that beats the hell out of the current choices that are delivered with defects...
Too soon?
Sounds great again, but even with today's playfield problems, it can take two years just to get a response if you can get one at all.
I think I'm onto how to make playfields last much longer and guarantee them as such.
Quoted from Brijam:if we're choosing between several great games, as we all are
Edit- I'm proud to say this is my first moderation since I've been back, and I do sincerely apologize. Sometimes I just can't control myself.
4 weeks later
Quoted from okgrak:Anyone else question the physics of this shot?
Not until the thing breaks off and lands on someones foot.
Quoted from okgrak:Maybe they have pioneered the use of balsa wood and other nanotechnologies to create a populated playfield that weights under 10lbs?
Looks like they are pioneering the use of shit that was never needed.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I'd like a rotisserie in the game itself...
...as an optional extra.
It will certainly make replacing that indestructible playfield with the 10 year warranty a lot easier.
Quoted from Rondogg:You think any company with a tilt mechanism or scoop sends money to PPS just because Harry Williams invented them in the 30s?
I had no idea PPS held any rights to Automatic Amusements.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Hey everyone. We would like to keep this thread on topic. We have issued several moderations and deleted a bunch of off topic posts over the last day.
If there is nothing to say about or in some way relating to Deeproot then please simply say nothing rather than post off topic photos that simply fill space. Thank you -
Moderation Staff
Is that still in play?
Quoted from iceman44:I NEVER drink the harder stuff. Maybe tequila once a year. My liver is great, along with all of my other numbers
I drink beer, the harder stuff, and roll numbers. Then I wake up to find some nine ball turned the clock back an hour. My liver doesn't seem to mind.
Quoted from Sinistarrett:Wow I havent heard of anyone referring to that as “rolling numbers” since the Freak Brothers.
"Rolling numbers, rock and roll, got my Kiss records out..."
And there you have it, Cheap Trick will be the next up to date pinball theme. lol.
1 week later
Quoted from dts:I hope for O-din it’s Sledgehammer Pinball tomorrow!
Sure would be better than just another fairy theme.
Quoted from gliebig:Is there any cool/unique toy on this game? I haven't had a chance to look into yet.
I couldn't get past the far out colors. But there is sure to be something resembling what Harry Williams put on a woodrail back in the 1950s again.
Quoted from Mr68:I happen to love the color scheme I see on RAZA. Very much so and its one of the first things I noticed in the pictures.
Stern's color palette choices are antiquated and played out, seemly forever, with only very few exceptions.
Then have we got the grocery getter for you!
63a675b53c68da5a9981a8cb5dc20ea4 (resized).jpgQuoted from Mr68:Nah. The store is only 3 miles away and she needs the exercise.
I think I'll buy an old Dodge Neon, then I can be one in style too without breaking the bank.
Quoted from mrgone:A moving target. Nothing new.
There's that Williams innovation from 1960 I've been waitng for.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:Admit it, you miss it! It hasn't been in a pinball since 1976 or so with Space Mission/Space Odyssey!
I don't miss it because I own the original 1960 game it came on. Designed by Harry Mabs this time.
For those that did miss it, I believe Thunderbirds are Go might be the most recent game with this feature
Quoted from TreyBo69:I've always thought a swinging target behind a drop target bank could be a ton of fun. Something like try to hit the target while minimizing how many drop targets you drop or clear the bank without hitting the target.
I love the swinging target in the game though. I do think more games need them. It's a simple but satisfying mech.
I'm totally shocked they didn't re-invent the classic gobble hole behind a drop target. It was only used on one game.
Quoted from TreyBo69:It looks like a scoop with a drop target in front. That's innovation!
That takes the classic drop target in front of a kickout hole from 1965 to a whole new level.
Some of these features may not be new, but it is kinda refreshing compared to what else has been available as of late.
image-11 (resized).jpg
Quoted from LTG:He may have brought some of it on himself.
LTG : )
Someone always brings that up, for what reason I don't know, but he always has the option of starting his own pinball forum.
I've seen some mention this will be in the $4k to $5k price range, and I would certainly like to have some of what they have been smoking.
Quoted from razorsedge:There is info in the interview... which your post suggests you have not read.
I read it, and at one point J-Pop mentions-
"Naturally Gottlieb games from the 50’s and 60’s did this well, using seemingly little on the playfield but having great play and flipper shots."
I suppose Gottlieb also invented all those Williams features from the 50s and 60s he likes to use so well.
I'm looking forward to seeing those Ferraris at Kia prices as promised. Was it Kia or Hyundai, I don't remember?
Actually I'm more looking forward to seeing Ford Vs. Ferrari tonight.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Gottlieb bossed Williams in the 50's!
I like the Gottlieb disappearing pop bumper that made a reappearance on Cirqus Voltaire.
Quoted from ultimategameroom:I’m not a big fan of that game but that is pretty damn cool!
Lets not forget Gottlieb's 24 volt games that made Williams 50 volt games seem so slow.
Quoted from minnesota13:I like the 1975 Williams Triple Action spinning posts that made a reappearance on TOTAN.
That goes way back to 1967 on a Rally game called Playboy.
And the Gottlieb thing was sort of a sarcastic response as the disappearing pop or jet bumper was a Harry Williams creation that first appeared on Gusher in 1958. Without impulse flippers as those went away in the early 50s.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:While $5k would be nice, a fully featured, high end pin will have a large bill of material, expect to pay $5.5k. Just below Stern’s pro.
By the time these are ready to actually be produced, the Stern pro will probably be hitting near the $7K range, so if true expect closer to $6.5k.
However, with the overwhelming response to what has been shown already, and the increasing number of pinsiders drooling for more, they may abandon that strategy, and price them closer to a premium., which will probably be $10k by X-Mas.
In another thread the question came up are these pictures of an actual machine, or some CGI rendering?
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:So how long before o-din changes his avatar from Supreme to Deep Root?
Screw that! I changed it to something really exciting happening TODAY.
Quoted from iceman44:Anything but that crap Odiner. Come on man
You want one don’t ya
Look at my avatar. That's what I am enthused about today. If the general pinball community doesn't get it, not my worry. We got tickets for 9:30.
Quoted from ZMeny:FIRST LOOK Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (RAZA) Gameplay
Unknown (resized).jpgMy first take. Placeholder artwork aside. It has a good variety of playfield features and it seems a pretty well thought out layout.
But between the animations, the sounds, the theme in general, and what seems like the standard soullessness of most of today's games, I can see myself playing it to see how it shoots, but with no desire to own one.
However, if it comes in at a price similar to Thunderbirds are Go, it will make a good affordable entry level game with a light hearted theme for someone without the skills to repair or desire to own an older game.
Quoted from wesman:How was the movie last night?
Amazing! I could definitely see myself owning a Ford Vs. Ferrari pinball machine, old man theme or not.
Quoted from Fulltilt:OMG is that Jpop?!
[quoted image]
I don't know. Kinda reminds me of this dude.
Unknown (resized).jpgQuoted from HighProtein:So no streaming of this game online by goood players this weekend?
To stand in front of this thing, you would probably have to pay somebody real goooood.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:This is why 90’s pins cost as much as new pins
I'm playing one of the cheaper ones and it is so much fun.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Well, it has potential but the right ramp needs to be makeable.
That's what you get for weaning your teeth on Gottlieb.
I love how pinside dissects every new pinball machine like a frog before it is even for sale. And the name calling, anger and frustration flies when people disagree.
I don't need a microscope to see it is absolutely nothing I would want at my place. I'm really hoping they can step up the game with the next one.
Like with most prototypes, they are sure to become more valuable and desirable than the regular production games. In a few years we can marvel at the slight differences and tell those that ended up with them how lucky they are.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:As Robert Mueller's interview is pertinent to this thread, I will post some highlights. There are plenty of interesting points and comments made, so listen for yourself.* Playfield will be made of wood and it can take sledge hammer without enduring damage.
That would be truly amazing if the top layer is also made out of wood with some kind of clearcoat.
If the top layer is some kind of thick plastic, then it is not entirely made out of wood.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Does anybody think a pinball game can be bad (besides Ghostbusters)
If this game was in your local arcade today would you not play it? Of course you would which means it’s good.
Theme has killed almost every game from the last 5 years for me. And no, I won't pay money to play them. However, if it is free somewhere, I will play a couple balls to see how it shoots.
If a collector has only those at is place, I will not go out of my way to visit just to play them.
Quoted from Bingovit:Statements like this disgust me.
Brussel sprouts disgust me.
Quoted from wesman:So if Pinside is a sewer to Robert then that makes us all.....?
Garbage collectors that might still buy his games.
Quoted from wesman:It's almost as if he's trying deliberately to help people forget the issues they might have with JPop, by being the biggest, most unlikable and obnoxious nob he can be. Is he trying to win an award or something?
Perhaps he is trying to make himself and the rest of us forget his own issues he had with J-pop, and perhaps some of the other promises made.
Quoted from deeproot:We had skin in the game at one point, but no longer. Both Popadiuk and Marsh violated our NDA agreements and have defamed, misrepresented our efforts to have a very different result.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Is there anybody this guy won't get in the ring with?
If you can take a deeproot beatdown, then they may have a position for you.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/deeproot-tech-job-postings
Quoted from valgalder:Doesn't sound like you actually like pinball...
How's that? I play almost every day and late into the night.
Maybe I just don't like your pinball?
It's like food, I eat what I like. If somebody else wants to eat dog food, that's up to them.
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