(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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There are 33,444 posts in this topic. You are on page 189 of 669.
#9401 3 years ago
Quoted from BrewinBombers:

If they artificially inflate the prize of RAZA / AIW then they can claim to be delivering a lot more value to the folks who settled for new games, even if it's not what they might otherwise charge.

How do you artificially inflate the price?

#9402 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

How do you artificially inflate the price?

fees?

#9403 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

They want to be cool like you Dan! When are you starting your pinball company again? Lol

I already did. I’ve brought as many games to market as deeproot. And I’m not all that far behind jjp.

#9404 3 years ago

Legend of Zelda! Definitely

#9405 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

How do you artificially inflate the price?

What do you mean?

If the game would sell for $6k but it you want it to show more value for legal reasons you just MSRP it at $9k and all of a sudden that's the value.

#9406 3 years ago

Bc I have 2 other pins to pay end of year (AIQ and RM) to not go on my hard emergency savings it would be best if RAZA will be a disappointment. So in that light it would be best if

1. the ramp is still frustrating mostly bc you can only make it clean on the fly and nothing is feeding the left flipper directly,

2. the dizzy target on the left is still senseless in the way and kills therefore the fun,

3. JPOP had no urge and fire left to show the pin world he is one of the best designers ever,

3. overall there is less than 1 level of improvement to the prototype.

Bc I trust what Kaneda reports from the RM talk this week and insight into the latest production sheets I unfortunately doubt that all that will be the case. And just bc many wish JPOP to fail and ignorantly say he always produced garbage that unfortunately will also not be the case. I would be really happy to being able to not buy this pin.

#9407 3 years ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

Legend of Zelda! Definitely

That'd become my first NIB-game if it'd be a nice game (playfield, rules, etc. combined).

#9408 3 years ago

Maybe they meant "Kia pricing" literally?

You can get a base model Kia for around $9.5K, cant you?

kia-pride-1 (resized).jpgkia-pride-1 (resized).jpg
#9409 3 years ago

Whether the game is good or not ( or whether it actually gets released for that matter ) I’m amazed at how many bitch about a shot that has to made w/o trapping up . Seems like the ability to shoot a moving ball would be a basic and necessary skill in a physics game like pinball . If it’s released I can’t wait to give it a try - you know - like all newly released pins .

#9410 3 years ago
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

Whether the game is good or not ( or whether it actually gets released for that matter ) I’m amazed at how many bitch about a shot that has to made w/o trapping up . Seems like the ability to shoot a moving ball would be a basic and necessary skill in a physics game like pinball . If it’s released I can’t wait to give it a try try - you know - like all newly released pins .

Your point would have merit if there was a shot to feed a rolling ball into the inlane. As it is there is no skillful way to do that.

#9411 3 years ago

You’re probably right . It’s best to condemn a pin you’ve never played or seen in person . Waiting is for suckers

#9412 3 years ago
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

You’re probably right . It’s best to condemn a pin you’ve never played or seen in person . Waiting is for suckers

Beware. Levi who is very vocal in his RAZA couch critique is reading that. He likes to talk bad about pins he never played.

#9413 3 years ago

Just read up on all the colorful history surrounding jpop and the elusive deeproot company. What are the odds they come out with a quality pin with a cool theme beating Stern's pro price point? That would be so much better than releasing a few at sky high prices then mysteriously going out of business.

Give players a better value and something different and RAZA will fly off the shelves.

#9414 3 years ago
Quoted from BobSacamano:

Maybe they meant "Kia pricing" literally?
You can get a base model Kia for around $9.5K, cant you?

If you find me a another pinball machine that will let me drive it around town, shopping and anywhere else I need to go, I'll buy it.

Admitted I'd be embarrassed to buy one that would look like a Yugo....

#9415 3 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

If you find me a another pinball machine that will let me drive it around town, shopping and anywhere else I need to go, I'll buy it.
Admitted I'd be embarrassed to buy one that would look like a Yugo....

Tell us. You're excited or just "want to get this over with"?

Did you receive another invitation? (I guess not since they have to do it with less people.)

#9416 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

As I recall, the original “Zombie Apocalypse” pin was going to be 10k on the button back in 2012. So I wouldn’t be stunned to see that price still hold. Though it was a crazy world for pinball back then.

The Aussie dollar got to over a $1.08 in 2012 , the good old days

#9417 3 years ago
Quoted from digitaldocc:

Just read up on all the colorful history surrounding jpop and the elusive deeproot company. What are the odds they come out with a quality pin with a cool theme beating Stern's pro price point? That would be so much better than releasing a few at sky high prices then mysteriously going out of business.
Give players a better value and something different and RAZA will fly off the shelves.

Price this sucker at $3500-4500!

#9418 3 years ago
Quoted from digitaldocc:

Price this sucker at $3500-4500!

Ohhhhhhhh yeaaahhhh !

#9419 3 years ago
Quoted from digitaldocc:

Price this sucker at $3500-4500!

That could make sense... if you want to sell it out in, say ... under 4 hours!? Lol

Build only 500 units limits that loss, "promotional special!"

#9420 3 years ago
Quoted from digitaldocc:

Price this sucker at $3500-4500

Well you know what I did. Talked to my bank account manager today to give me 12k in credit. I did that not to pay off RM and AIQ I have to pay in full soon no. Its bc these two pins take all my disposable income this year so theres nothing left than my hard emergency fundings to pay RAZA. Cant use these for a pin impossible. Rather take credit though that also is not a good thing to fund a pinball table with credit. Its bc I expect RAZA to cost about 10-12k and that I wont come around it bc it will blow JPOP fans away.

If thats the case in September + JJP releases GnR this month, in which I have fortunately no interest in, September 20 will be the greatest pinball month of all time with maybe the best Stern pin of all time, the best JPOP pin of all time and the best JJP pin of all time released. Then I am not the only one suffering heavy economical damage.

#9421 3 years ago

If RAZA is 10 - 12 k I predict deeproot goes under . No way an unproven company who’s never produced a game , has missed release of their first by a couple years , bragged about offering value to the market , and releases during a flood of exciting new pins , - manages to sell many at the highest price point of any manufacturer ( whose machines , hardware , & software are a proven commodity by the way ) . That’s just silly .

#9422 3 years ago

Guys... I think this whole thing about RAZA coming out as a premium product is misguided. Kaneda said he thought Deeproot SHOULD price it high and keep numbers limited to 250 or so to drive demand. I have no reason to believe it will come out as a premium product. If I were a betting man I would bet it came in somewhere under a Stern Premium for sure, possibly within a few hundred of a Stern Pro to stay competitive. I look forward to seeing what they have to offer. I see competition as a force that increases quality from all companies.

#9423 3 years ago

Since AFM, there has only been one unlicensed pin that sold above about 1,300 units, and that was RFM. So we're at 21 years and counting since anything unlicensed was "flying off the shelves".

I hope the game does well. But a well executed unlicensed theme is a niche within the already tiny niche of people who will spend thousands to put a pinball machine in their house.

#9424 3 years ago

Kaneda just wants to briefly own the new, expensive, shiny thing if he can flip it for profit. Games being hard to buy is the easiest way to flip, and he knows Robert well enough to get an early production game if he wants it. (Cue him ranting about selling The Big Lebowski for cost while ignoring how much he sold his Batman 66 SLE for and how much he wants for his Rick and Morty, and not realizing that I didn't say that there was anything wrong with wanting to be flipper)

Limiting production to create artificial scarcity is ridiculous. Keeping the factory line moving at all costs will be deeproots main priority once it goes live. If they do a limited run, it's only because the next title is ready. Sell, sell, sell.

#9425 3 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Since AFM, there has only been one unlicensed pin that sold above about 1,300 units, and that was RFM. So we're at 21 years and counting since anything unlicensed was "flying off the shelves".
I hope the game does well. But a well executed unlicensed theme is a niche within the already tiny niche of people who will spend thousands to put a pinball machine in their house.

They had to have sold more than 1,300 units of Dialed In and Black Knight (which is a licensed game, but come on...that license is basically the Black Knight trademark and nothing else. It means nothing to anyone that isn't already super into pinball).

I do agree though. People don't want original themes nearly as much as they say they do. The market has repeatedly shown it.

#9426 3 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

They had to have sold more than 1,300 units of Dialed In

IPSND puts it around 1300, and reverse engineering the number through ownership numbers on Pinside got me to around 1,100.

(650 JJPOTC LE's were made, and 350 registered on Pinside...so that's 54%. Pinside lists 589 Dialed In machines, so I'm guessing 1,090.)

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Black Knight (SoR)

Actually, I forgot about this one, and I would think it would be higher than 1,300. But running the numbers makes me think it's actually very close. Pinside says 123 Pros, 87 Premiums, and 160 LEs. They made 600 LEs, so if we use the LEs as the basis, 26% of owners added them to their Pinside collection. That would be (123+87)/.26 = 808 Pros / Premiums + 600 LEs = 1408 total.

Yes, it's still on the line - but for all the internet hype about a new Black Knight, it hasn't sold anywhere near as many units as a hit licensed game from Stern.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

I do agree though. People don't want original themes nearly as much as they say they do. The market has repeatedly shown it.

100%. The "we want original themes" voices on the internet are very loud, but it's misleading because no one ever says "we want more licensed games".

And also, when we get an unlicensed theme, most people say: "no, not *that* kind of unlicensed theme", like they did with Dialed In. Which of course is the same thing people say whenever a superhero or rock band theme comes out ("no, not *that* theme").

#9427 3 years ago
Quoted from Makakka:

Then I am not the only one suffering heavy economical damage.

You'll soon be suffering heavy emotional damage when you realize how bad the RAZA you just plunked down five figures for is.

You make fun of me for dissing a game "you haven't played" and you are taking out loans from the bank to pay for a game you've never played from a manufacturer who has never released a game designed by a wash up who hasn't delivered anything of note in 25 years.

And I'm the unreasonable one?

#9428 3 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

misguided. Kaneda said he thought Deeproot SHOULD price it high

Sometimes Kaneda says maybe to stay confidential and later he gets out of line and says definetely. Like herr. He said his RM pin did cost 9.5k and that RAZA will be more than that.

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

I have no reason to believe it will come out as a premium product

There are enough reasons.

#9429 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

You'll soon be suffering heavy emotional damage when you realize how bad the RAZA you just plunked down five figures for is.

You didn't enjoy it when you played it?

I played it 5-10 times and had a blast.

#9430 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

when you realize how bad the RAZA you just plunked down five figures for is

I am not buying fully blind. Im acually happy (like you maybe) if RAZA is bad as I dont have the money available atm to buy RAZA. But the le risk you are talking ie the blind spots of code and gameplay is not special for this machine. For example AIQLEs (which I´m in btw) are long gone before the first gameplay footage is published tomorrow.

#9431 3 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

played it 5-10 times and had a blast

And that was the prototype wow.

#9432 3 years ago

I also see that Levi is back to saying that the ramp was impossible to hit. Simply not true.

I will re-post this from 9 months ago. As I have mentioned in this thread many times but seems to be ignored, I spoke with the staff while I was playing the game more than once, and they mentioned the flipper strength was not set to full power due to it being a prototype with many 3d printed parts. And we were still able to make the ramp shot!!
Screen Shot 2020-09-08 at 1.51.22 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2020-09-08 at 1.51.22 PM (resized).png

#9433 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

You make fun of me for dissing a game "you haven't played" and you are taking out loans from the bank to pay for a game you've never played from a manufacturer who has never released a game designed by a wash up who hasn't delivered anything of note in 25 years.

And I'm the unreasonable one?

Guess we´re both emotional.

#9434 3 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

I also see that Levi is back to saying that the ramp was impossible to hit. Simply not true.
I will re-post this from 9 months ago. As I have mentioned in this thread many times but seems to be ignored, I spoke with the staff while I was playing the game more than once, and they mentioned the flipper strength was not set to full power due to it being a prototype with many 3d printed parts. And we were still able to make the ramp shot!!
[quoted image]

After seeing what Keith Elwin did with that crazy Captain Marvel ramp, I don't see how anyone still doesn't realize how strong modern flippers are. They're capable of applying a lot of momentum to a ball. At a certain point, it's just physics. Force of the flipper vs the force of gravity + friction + loss in angular momentum.

That said, if the ramp shot is built around making the shot on the fly and not from a cradle, then you should be able to skillfully feed the left inlane. Instead the ramp return drops off in front of the sling (which I think will annoy a lot of people and probably should feed the inlane)

#9435 3 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Since AFM, there has only been one unlicensed pin that sold above about 1,300 units, and that was RFM. So we're at 21 years and counting since anything unlicensed was "flying off the shelves".
I hope the game does well. But a well executed unlicensed theme is a niche within the already tiny niche of people who will spend thousands to put a pinball machine in their house.

Dialed In LE alone is limited at 2500 unites. They're still selling them. I'm pretty sure there are over 1500 (combined of all models) sold easily out there.

Quoted from ryanwanger:

IPSND puts it around 1300, and reverse engineering the number through ownership numbers on Pinside got me to around 1,100.
(650 JJPOTC LE's were made, and 350 registered on Pinside...so that's 54%. Pinside lists 589 Dialed In machines, so I'm guessing 1,090.)

This is using LE's on a game that wasn't for sale that long. Pretty sure operators usually buy more standard addition games then LE's I've never saw a JJPPOTC in the wild but have seen several standard DL's on location. So think using the 54% would be flawed.

#9436 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

you are taking out loans from the bank to pay for a game

We have an unseen paradoxon this month that can knock both your eyes blue. First one AIQLE totally out of the blue just look at the subs many stated they didnt have the money but had to buy anyway just had to buy this stunner le many with the money reserved for

1. RAZA

or

2. GnR

Im 1. For 2 look at the AIQ subs many already crying they dont have any money left for GnR bc of AIQ but have to buy GnR anyway if its awesome which Kaneda testifies. So yes I am victim of this paradoxon but will by far not be the only one. I think GnR will inflict even more damage than RAZA on the AIQ front if its as great as Kaneda says.

#9437 3 years ago
Quoted from Makakka:

Im 1. For 2 look at the AIQ subs many already crying they dont have any money left for GnR bc of AIQ but have to buy GnR anyway if its awesome which Kaneda testifies. So yes I am victim of this paradoxon but will by far not be the only one. I think GnR will inflict even more damage than RAZA on the AIQ front if its as great as Kaneda says.

You would really be better off if you didn't take that stuff seriously. Enjoy it for whatever entertainment value you get from it but actually forming your own opinions / arguments - and even worse, financial decisions - on it is just an invitation for regret. You shouldn't be taking out $12,000 loans and preparing to blow all of your "discretionary income" for the year based on an entertainment podcast.

Remember how good he said Wonka was gonna be? Revolutionary, must buy, etc. etc. etc. I don't remember that release "inflicting any damage" on the stern front.

#9438 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

You would really be better off if you didn't take that stuff seriously. Enjoy it for whatever entertainment value you get from it but actually forming your own opinions / arguments on it is just an invitation for regret.
Remember how good he said Wonka was gonna be? I don't remember that game destroying any games on the "stern front."

This is an incredibly fair and reasonable response on your end.

Kaneda always fluffs the hype train. Sometimes it's fun, other times it's just inaccurate.

Quoted from Makakka:

We have an unseen paradoxon this month that can knock both your eyes blue. First one AIQLE totally out of the blue just look at the subs many stated they didnt have the money but had to buy anyway just had to buy this stunner le many with the money reserved for
1. RAZA
or
2. GnR
Im 1. For 2 look at the AIQ subs many already crying they dont have any money left for GnR bc of AIQ but have to buy GnR anyway if its awesome which Kaneda testifies. So yes I am victim of this paradoxon but will by far not be the only one. I think GnR will inflict even more damage than RAZA on the AIQ front if its as great as Kaneda says.

Good news is, your bank account can wait to take a hit on any of these games! This is exactly why I'm avoiding wacky limited to the extreme NIB purchases. It's just too expensive and volatile a market at times.

#9439 3 years ago
Quoted from Makakka:

We have an unseen paradoxon this month that can knock both your eyes blue. First one AIQLE totally out of the blue just look at the subs many stated they didnt have the money but had to buy anyway just had to buy this stunner le many with the money reserved for
1. RAZA
or
2. GnR
Im 1. For 2 look at the AIQ subs many already crying they dont have any money left for GnR bc of AIQ but have to buy GnR anyway if its awesome which Kaneda testifies. So yes I am victim of this paradoxon but will by far not be the only one. I think GnR will inflict even more damage than RAZA on the AIQ front if its as great as Kaneda says.

I doubt more than 5 people have money laying in wait to spend on RAZA. There are certainly more people waiting for the release, but not many withholding other purchases.

#9440 3 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

I also see that Levi is back to saying that the ramp was impossible to hit. Simply not true.
I will re-post this from 9 months ago. As I have mentioned in this thread many times but seems to be ignored, I spoke with the staff while I was playing the game more than once, and they mentioned the flipper strength was not set to full power due to it being a prototype with many 3d printed parts. And we were still able to make the ramp shot!!
[quoted image]

Why do even give a shit what he says? He is a constant whining noise. I can't imagine he is as miserable in daily life as he is on here. I think some people just need a place to bitch and this is his place.

#9441 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Why do even give a shit what he says? He is a constant whining noise. I can't imagine he is as miserable in daily life as he is on here. I think some people just need a place to bitch and this is his place.

If I had a podcast would you take my opinions more seriously? That's really all it seems to take around here. If only I could figure out how to hook this tape recorder to the internet.

#9442 3 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Since AFM, there has only been one unlicensed pin that sold above about 1,300 units, and that was RFM. So we're at 21 years and counting since anything unlicensed was "flying off the shelves".

Predator was unlicensed, and that seemed to cause a stir

#9443 3 years ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

I'm pretty sure there are over 1500 (combined of all models) sold easily out there.

Fine, I'll agree with that and revise my 1300 to 1500 so that we can agree.

I used the best data that I can come up with. Feel free to propose your own estimates, but to counter my argument (which is that unlicensed machines don't sell nearly as well as licensed games), we need some kind of evidence suggesting that the existing numbers are off by some large multiple (not just 10-20%).

#9444 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Predator was unlicensed, and that seemed to cause a stir

lol

Quoted from Tomass:

I can't imagine he is as miserable in daily life as he is on here.

You're right - he's not at all miserable in daily life. At least, not the times I've seen him.

#9445 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

If I had a podcast would you take my opinions more seriously? That's really all it seems to take around here. If only I could figure out how to hook this tape recorder to the internet.

Well I have an hour commute each way, everyday, so I would at least give you a listen.
As far as the tape recorder; Just plug it in. It's the plug in the back.

#9446 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

If I had a podcast would you take my opinions more seriously? That's really all it seems to take around here. If only I could figure out how to hook this tape recorder to the internet.

Please do. I've never subscribed to a podcast. I would subscribe to this podcast.

#9447 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

If I had a podcast would you take my opinions more seriously? That's really all it seems to take around here. If only I could figure out how to hook this tape recorder to the internet.

LOL.. so true... the never beef podcast is calling you...

#9449 3 years ago

So this is the Deeproot Pinball thread, correct?

...SO many SO far off topic.

#9450 3 years ago
Quoted from Valorguy:

So this is the Deeproot Pinball thread, correct?

Yes it is! And no other thread on Pinside fits my username better than this one.

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