Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Jpop is still noodling and doodling years later on his road to nowhere.
That said, I'll take a box of anything to satisfy my contract with DR.
As for what else is coming?....All of the designers, coders, sound guys have to have been doing something for the past few years?
I don't believe they are that bad. Can't possibly be. Who needs to look in the mirror of this shitshow? That's obvious isn't it.
Quoted from iceman44:Who needs to look in the mirror of this shitshow?
Me.... I was a total dumbass to have fallen for his BS.
JPop building a complete game "on his own"...... HOW the F&*k would that happen?
Quoted from Fulltilt:Me.... I was a total dumbass to have fallen for his BS.
JPop building a complete game "on his own"...... HOW the F&*k would that happen?
When he did that I was just new into pinball and my favourite machine - due to pinball arcade wich brought me in - was TotAN.
So I wanted a TotAN but,... well you can get a new Stern for that and the artstyle on TotAN looks a bit dated, so I wanted a new game like that. - But this doesn‘t exist!
So someone hinted me to Zidware.
I watched the first Prototype Footage of Magic Girl (the one where the playfield is printed onto a Plastic sheet and wont lie flat and you cant hit anything) and saw that he was already in the planning stage and collecting money for the next games...
...and I said to myself:
„I guess I buy a NIB Stern and wait until the game is out, IF it‘ll ever be out, and buy it used.“
I mean: Man how many „Art Packages“ were there, to get people to send money in? Magic Girl, RaZa, Kiss, Alice in Wonderland...
But yeah, what I wanted to say is:
I completely get that you‘d fall for the Magic Girl promise; there are no games like that.
What I don‘t get is people din‘t smell that something was off when ordering RaZa. By that time it was allready pretty fishy.
Quoted from mbeardsley:At this point, if they could actually produce something "almost as good as a Stern" for "only a little more cost than a JJP" and can ship "almost as many as Spooky" - I'd give them a win.
got me thinking ... if deeproot produced 500-1000 of a single title each year they could be on par with every other manufacturer out there, except stern.
Quoted from greenhornet:got me thinking ... if deeproot produced 500-1000 of a single title each year they could be on par with every other manufacturer out there, except stern.
Okay, but that's a long way from the "more machines than any manufacturer in history" that Robert has bragged about (of course, he said that a long time ago - back when pinball was "easy").
Anybody know how many units CGC has produced now? They've had a few different runs of MMr, a run of AFMr, a run of MBr, and are starting a second run of AFMr.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I completely get that you‘d fall for the Magic Girl promise; there are no games like that.
What I don‘t get is people din‘t smell that something was off when ordering RaZa. By that time it was allready pretty fishy.
I didn't go for the Magic Girl, that didn't really appeal to me. I wanted a ZOMBIE pin. The initial BHZA thrill temptation video sucked me in.
I wanted Zombie Girls, I want Glow Balls, I want a Glue Gun, I want..!
Quoted from Fulltilt:I didn't go for the Magic Girl, that didn't really appeal to me. I wanted a ZOMBIE pin. The initial BHZA thrill temptation video sucked me in.
I wanted Zombie Girls, I want Glow Balls, I want a Glue Gun, I want..!
I don‘t remember if I know that Video. 
Is it still online?
Quoted from iceman44:Drove by Deeproot today around 3:30
About 25 cars or so in the parking lot
There is some action going on
I hope so. So people owed games get something eventually.
LTG : )
Quoted from LTG:I hope so. So people owed games get something eventually.
LTG : )
No doubt Lloyd. All the people that work there and the investor $$ spent
Gotta hope it all works out for them
Fingers Crossed ... all that have been wronged are made good! And more games produced!
More choice and options are always good!
Maybe they have been F***ng with us and have thousands of ultra modern pins ready to go. Three or four titles let's say. Go DEEPROOT!!!!
Quoted from ThisNotes4U:Maybe they have been F***ng with us and have thousands of ultra modern pins ready to go. Three or four titles let's say. Go DEEPROOT!!!!
that's not usually how manufacturing goes, especially in the amusement industry. Stern builds about 60 pinballs a day, and at the end of each day those go on a truck to somewhere. Storing thousands of pinballs in a warehouse is a waste of money. The only companies that warehouse product are ones who sell seasonal product, so they spread manufacturing throughout the year.
Quoted from ThisNotes4U:Maybe they have been F***ng with us and have thousands of ultra modern pins ready to go. Three or four titles let's say. Go DEEPROOT!!!!
Yea, lets spend millions of dollars on physical hardware that people may not want. Thats not how its done.
Quoted from Roostking:Yea, lets spend millions of dollars on physical hardware that people may not want. Thats not how its done.
Isn't that the gamble virtually EVERY product manufactured faces in business?? Haven't seen Apple release 5 phone units to market to see what we think? lol Sometimes you win, sometimes not but its the gamble of business.
Quoted from toyotaboy:that's not usually how manufacturing goes, especially in the amusement industry. Stern builds about 60 pinballs a day, and at the end of each day those go on a truck to somewhere. Storing thousands of pinballs in a warehouse is a waste of money. The only companies that warehouse product are ones who sell seasonal product, so they spread manufacturing throughout the year.
Agreed. They will be lucky to initially produce 1 a day and have it all work. Building up manufacturing is a long slow painful process. Stern is the star but they have been at this for decades, not 6 months. Honestly, American Pinball is the rock star here, they said they would do it, took no pre order money, and did it. You may not love their games, but I didn’t hear of any major build quality issues early on. Deep root does not inspire confidence. Build quality usually follows ability to execute and they have not shown that at all.
Quoted from Yelobird:Isn't that the gamble virtually EVERY product manufactured faces in business?? Haven't seen Apple release 5 phone units to market to see what we think? lol Sometimes you win, sometimes not but its the gamble of business.
Deeproots, not Apple. I do want deeproot to succeed..
Quoted from Yelobird:Isn't that the gamble virtually EVERY product manufactured faces in business??
Definitely.
That Gorilla cost millions to develop and get LTG to sign off.
LTG : )
Quoted from Yelobird:Isn't that the gamble virtually EVERY product manufactured faces in business?? Haven't seen Apple release 5 phone units to market to see what we think? lol Sometimes you win, sometimes not but its the gamble of business.
No... you build to a forecast. Apple builds so many up front because they know they need that many for their distribution channels and forecasted sales.
Anyone pushing a forecast that Deeproot is going to sell 'thousands' of games at launch and needs to prime the channel with that many pre-built pieces is high on something.
Not to be a Debbie downer, but this company has proven time and again they fail to meet any deadline they have set. What makes this time so different?
I have been watching these abandoned buildings and bankrupt videos on youtube this week. American Dream mall, WOW air. I'm pretty sure thats whats going on here, same setbacks,delays, and excuses. I am surprised to see this thread live on as long as it has with nothing to show for it?
Quoted from flynnibus:No... you build to a forecast. Apple builds so many up front because they know they need that many for their distribution channels and forecasted sales.
Anyone pushing a forecast that Deeproot is going to sell 'thousands' of games at launch and needs to prime the channel with that many pre-built pieces is high on something.
Agree no doubt but in order to create a forecast all you have is a market speculation and from that initial speculation you can adjust build plan to suit production output. Granted not at Apple volume (maybe a bad example) but to say they could safely build 100 units to prime the pump would be a safe bet in my view. Especially given the already allocated units to pre-Zid commitment. Time will tell I guess. I am in for anything new in pinball personally. I base my interest and purchase on variety and entertainment. What was hyper-pitched or assumed promised means nothing to me nor past indirect assets. Make a fun game and I'm a buyer!
Quoted from Viggin900:I am surprised to see this thread live on as long as it has with nothing to show for it?
Shhhiiiaaattt... a mere 2 years. The Popadiuk thread went for 6 years and never produced a damn thing.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Zidware RAZA Trailer
Wow. That‘s really only a lot of empty promises for your imagination and zero proof of concept.
Even if Deeproot delivered the best game in the world it couldn‘t possibly deliver on that.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Wow. That‘s really only a lot of empty promises for your imagination and zero proof of concept.
Even if Deeproot delivered the best game in the world it couldn‘t possibly deliver on that.
Everyone here realizes that Deeproot isn’t Zidware, right? I mean besides talking a big game they didn’t take anyone’s money. All they have done is employ a bunch of people in pinball and try to help a bunch of other people they have no legal obligation to help.
How long did Hobbit take to come out again? Pirates of the Caribbean came out right after JJP showed it though, right?
Reading this thread you would think everyone on Pinside gave Deeproot a million dollars.
Quoted from Waxx:Everyone here realizes that Deeproot isn’t Zidware, right? I mean besides talking a big game they didn’t take anyone’s money. All they have done is employ a bunch of people in pinball and try to help a bunch of other people they have no legal obligation to help.
How long did Hobbit take to come out again? Pirates of the Caribbean came out right after JJP showed it though, right?
Reading this thread you would think everyone on Pinside gave Deeproot a million dollars.
In my Post Deeproot and Zidware are even seperatly mentioned, so yes.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:In my Post Deeproot and Zidware are even seperatly mentioned, so yes.
People are tacitly encouraging the idea that Deeproot has to deliver on Zidware’s promises.
I’ve never mentioned anyone by name though so I could be talking about anyone.
Quoted from Viggin900:I have been watching these abandoned buildings and bankrupt videos on youtube this week. American Dream mall, WOW air. I'm pretty sure thats whats going on here, same setbacks,delays, and excuses. I am surprised to see this thread live on as long as it has with nothing to show for it?
Off topic, but WOW air was awesome. I took them on a business trip to speak in Berlin so I could stopover and have a day in Iceland. Totally worth it and would do again. Before they went under I was looking at a family trip to Iceland because you could go round trip to Iceland from Baltimore for around $300.
Quoted from Waxx:People are tacitly encouraging the idea that Deeproot has to deliver on Zidware’s promises.
I’ve never mentioned anyone by name though so I could be talking about anyone.
Since you were citing me I thought you meant me. 
Yeah, generally you‘re right of course!
Quoted from Waxx:People are tacitly encouraging the idea that Deeproot has to deliver on Zidware’s promises.
I’ve never mentioned anyone by name though so I could be talking about anyone.
I don't think anyone wants to see Deeproot fail. A lot of Pinsiders are extra hard on DR because Robert came in here guns a blazing initially and made some pretty outrageous claims and promises. He also was pretty outwardly disparaging of the competition. He has missed every deadline by months and even more than a year in some cases, and what has been shown so far is nowhere near the level of what was bragged about initially. You're darn right people are going to be skeptical and downright cynical at this point. But Robert has shown some change in his demeanor, as well as some humility. Robert did make good on the promise of paying off the affected Zidware customers who decided to take the cash option.
Quoted from Waxx:All they have done is employ a bunch of people in pinball and try to help a bunch of other people they have no legal obligation to help.
Well, it depends upon what you mean by legal obligation. They "helped" the Zidware customers to avoid opening themselves up to lawsuits regarding their use of Zidware assets. Sure, they could have ignored that and hoped that no one would successfully sue them, but they took the (probably) smarter route and paid them off (either with cash or machines).
Now, I'm glad that the Zidware customers were helped, but Deeproot did that because it was in their own best interest, not because they "felt bad" for the Zidware customers.
Quoted from Drewscruis:They fail to meet any deadline they have set. What makes this time so different?
They had a reveal planned with airline tickets, location bookings etc, but a worldwide pandemic hit. It was so bad that the entire world (excluding your neighborhood?) shut down. Corpses were stored in meat trucks, things were so bad. But the most shocking thing about this worldwide pandemic was that Deeproot had the audacity to use the event to stall their reveal. What jerks!
Quoted from Tranquilize:They had a reveal planned with airline tickets, location bookings etc, but a worldwide pandemic hit. It was so bad that the entire world (excluding your neighborhood?) shut down. Corpses were stored in meat trucks, things were so bad. But the most shocking thing about this worldwide pandemic was that Deeproot had the audacity to use the event to stall their reveal. What jerks!
Sure, we can give them a pass on the pandemic thing, but that was only one of several previous deadlines (of their own making) that they had already missed.
And other manufacturers have released games since then, despite the pandemic. If Deeproot was really ready to ship games at TPF, why are we here (5 months later) still being told it will be "soon"?
Quoted from Tranquilize:They had a reveal planned with airline tickets, location bookings etc, but a worldwide pandemic hit. It was so bad that the entire world (excluding your neighborhood?) shut down. Corpses were stored in meat trucks, things were so bad. But the most shocking thing about this worldwide pandemic was that Deeproot had the audacity to use the event to stall their reveal. What jerks!
You really think they were ready for the tpf date with everything they had promised?
And every other deadline before that?
Showing a pinball and shipping it to customers are 2 separate challenges. It would have been interesting had the TPF debut happened because it would have started another clock.
Quoted from frolic:Showing a pinball and shipping it to customers are 2 separate challenges. It would have been interesting had the TPF debut happened because it would have started another clock.
At this rate there will not be a TPF in March 2021....so what then?
Time to stop using pandemic as a cause to delay anything.
My bet is that the only thing to show or reveal is code update to RAZA and some new animations.
Meanwhile they may be trying to get 30-50 machines built because that's all there going to sell of this title.
Quoted from mbeardsley:Sure, we can give them a pass on the pandemic thing, but that was only one of several previous deadlines
One
Quoted from mbeardsley:And other manufacturers have released games since then, despite the pandemic.
Still something else if you have an established manufacturing line to get back to or if you have to build it from the ground up, in particular starting to hire staff that you had to completely lay off in an instant and begin anew now.
The problem I have seen with all business start ups is that the ones who plan big and larger than life right out of the gate never work out. Mainly because it takes them too long to do it and by that time they are 4 years behind the competition. They also like to blow money on frivolous things that are PR than the actual product development. In this case glitzy paid air travel,hotels, vip packages to the reveal. This place shows all the signs of bankruptcy. Have to start slow and small like CGC or AP.
Quoted from Viggin900:The problem I have seen with all business start ups is that the ones who plan big and larger than life right out of the gate never work out. Mainly because it takes them too long to do it and by that time they are 4 years behind the competition. They also like to blow money on frivolous things that are PR than the actual product development. In this case glitzy paid air travel,hotels, vip packages to the reveal. This place shows all the signs of bankruptcy. Have to start slow and small like CGC or AP.
Depends on how much money you have to burn and how fast the market improves (not at all).
But yes. that didn't quite work out. Doesn't mean they can't switch to a "small" roll out, wich is what they're doing now.
According to pinside there is no "PR".
Quoted from Viggin900:The problem I have seen with all business start ups is that the ones who plan big and larger than life right out of the gate never work out. Mainly because it takes them too long to do it and by that time they are 4 years behind the competition. They also like to blow money on frivolous things that are PR than the actual product development. In this case glitzy paid air travel,hotels, vip packages to the reveal. This place shows all the signs of bankruptcy. Have to start slow and small like CGC or AP.
I think this is true of small businesses, but once you step up into the realm of people more experienced running companies and that get a lot of financial backing, they can go big from the start. Tesla is the perfect example, planned big and larger than life, now delivering on their promises. And man o man do I wish I bought their stock a few years ago or even in March. Or even a month ago.
Quoted from Viggin900:The problem I have seen with all business start ups is that the ones who plan big and larger than life right out of the gate never work out. Mainly because it takes them too long to do it and by that time they are 4 years behind the competition. They also like to blow money on frivolous things that are PR than the actual product development. In this case glitzy paid air travel,hotels, vip packages to the reveal. This place shows all the signs of bankruptcy. Have to start slow and small like CGC or AP.
When I think about starting slow and small I think of Churchill Cabinet Company.
We've already seen both games being released so ask yourselves what could possibly be the point of remaining silent?
What could possibly be left to reveal other than the price and when they start shipping? Huh, the price is actually irrelevant to those getting their Zidware reimbursement. So with that being said why have they not released a promo video of the machines in action? You would have to imagine everything is done (other than building them). In my personal opinion it wouldn't overshadow their official release, so it's not a thunder stealer so to speak.
All of the aforementioned would do nothing but add excitement and reassurance of this coming to fruition.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:My bet is that the only thing to show or reveal is code update to RAZA and some new animations.
Meanwhile they may be trying to get 30-50 machines built because that's all there going to sell of this title.
I agree, the "reveal" will be a slightly modified ramp on RAZA, more code and animations on RAZA, vague talk about RAZA deliveries being made "soon" - and even more vague talk about "lots of future games with amazing innovations" being "on the way".
At least there is a chance they will provide some pricing info on RAZA, but even that is iffy.
Its 2020, pandemic or not snappin a few photos, having a facebook page updated or a website is second nature. Virtual reveals have been happening all pandemic. Events have gone online. So whats the hold up of “leaking” some details???? It seems odd.
Quoted from ralphcousman:Its 2020, pandemic or not snappin a few photos, having a facebook page updated or a website is second nature. Virtual reveals have been happening all pandemic. Events have gone online. So whats the hold up of “leaking” some details???? It seems odd.
Because they probably had to actually setup their manufacturing and get it primed during this disrupted period... because it wasn't ready (even tho they would have lead you to believe otherwise).
I think it's obvious they weren't ready to ship games on demand at TPF 2020... just reveal. And still needing to do everything beyond a reveal... during a pandemic... and strained supply chains.. I'm sure has been crippling.
But if they would have been ready BEFORE the pandemic like they were leading people to believe... that wouldn't have been an issue.
So it's either
1) They were ready to go and just turned everything off.. and have been sitting idle..
2) They were still setting up and had to stop... which means there was still lots of work to do.. which has been hard and slow during this period
3) They had everything running and just stopped. So restarting now would just be about picking up where you left off.
Place your bets... I still say it was #2 - They had sample game builds... but still no games going in boxes.
Quoted from flynnibus:Because they probably had to actually setup their manufacturing and get it primed during this disrupted period... because it wasn't ready (even tho they would have lead you to believe otherwise).
I think it's obvious they weren't ready to ship games on demand at TPF 2020... just reveal. And still needing to do everything beyond a reveal... during a pandemic... and strained supply chains.. I'm sure has been crippling.
But if they would have been ready BEFORE the pandemic like they were leading people to believe... that wouldn't have been an issue.
So it's either
1) They were ready to go and just turned everything off.. and have been sitting idle..
2) They were still setting up and had to stop... which means there was still lots of work to do.. which has been hard and slow during this period
3) They had everything running and just stopped. So restarting now would just be about picking up where you left off.
Place your bets... I still say it was #2 - They had sample game builds... but still no games going in boxes.
Weren't they talking about a whole new manufacturing process? I remember something about a different kind of playfield and other innovations. Maybe covid changed all that to where it was either too expensive now or not realistic. If they were indeed doing something innovative or new, they probably wouldn't want to announce it until it was ready for production.
Quoted from jawjaw:Weren't they talking about a whole new manufacturing process? I remember something about a different kind of playfield and other innovations. Maybe covid changed all that to where it was either too expensive now or not realistic. If they were indeed doing something innovative or new, they probably wouldn't want to announce it until it was ready for production.
Oh yeah, a whole new way of pinball manufacturing that will revalutionize the world. Stern will be 2nd in the marketplace and the release of 13 pinball games at once. Amazing what they are able to accomplish! What ever groundbreaking innovation announced was 3 years ago. We now have these things called electric cars since then.
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