Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020Quoted from TreyBo69:The interesting thing about this thread is it doesn't matter when the last time you checked it was, it's the exact same conversation in perpetuity.
My favorite are the “hey just checking in did I miss anything?” Posts.
See also: Alien remake.
Quoted from TreyBo69:exact same conversation in perpetuity
Yes but time is an important factor. See rehash of an old brilliant comment from 2018:
Quoted from frolic:The unfortunate thing is, we know the road from showing a demo game at a pinball show to delivering games to customers is even longer than the road was getting that game to the show in the first place.
From start (09/14/2017 Jpop reveal) to demo (11/15/2019 expo) is 2 years 2 months. So first customer gets his game not earlier than January 2022 and it will be tough to start production in 2022.
So you see at the time of that comment there was no demo thats why time is an important factor.
Btw conclusions from that timeline.
1. Thats why deproot is so quiet atm bc they face huge production problems.
2. Thats why RM said RAZA would prob produced in low quantities bc he knows he will miss the golden timing this year I described earlier.
3. Deeproots first task is to dry out JJP, AP and Spooky at least 1 of them. Problem is at the current market equilibrium at least JJP and Spooky more and more strengthen their positions. Deeproot investors were lured in in 2016-2017 when the market was weak when AP and spooky and to a degree still JJP were in their infancies and stern was heavily lacking in playfield quality and produced the last pin of the market with a dmd screen (GB). The five year cycle ends in late 2021. RM promised investors to fuck up the market with a game flooding in 2019 and that probably would have worked out... With patience priced in if deeproot is unable to have any significant disruption on the market til the end of the cycle (late 2021) there is a good chance RM will have same fate as AH ie investors will hold a shiv to his throat with the result of belly-up.
4. If a Jpop game is ready for sale I´ll buy one cant help it.
Quoted from iceman44:Wondering if any of that $$ went to fund pinball?
I'm actually pretty surprised to be reading this so far into the thread. I thought it was generally accepted that DR is some kinda scam and they've been skimming off the dubious investment funds to fund the pinball side? Maybe it's just been me that's been thinking that...for the last year.
For the life of me, I can't figure out where their funding is coming from.
Quoted from Makakka:Maybe you start reading the post right above you point 3.
I can’t possibly believe any investors were pitched on “pinball.” It had to be “we are starting this massive entertainment division that will soon eclipse Pixar” or something like that.
Either way, SOMEBODY got scammed even if it wasn’t the pinball community. Hopefully they are rich enough that they won’t miss that money, which is nothing but a cloud of smoke now.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:SOMEBODY got scammed
Only if RM knew his timelines were unrealistic. I dont think so. See Nordmann joined he is a good metronome he only is in as long he believes it will work out. So he believed he is an absolute expert. He left ship start of 19 only then he knew/assumed there won´t be production before the end of the investment cycle (Nordman left Heighway bc he foresaw the crash).
Quoted from Makakka:Only if RM knew his timelines were unrealistic. I dont think so. See Nordmann joined he is a good metronome he only is in as long he believes it will work out. So he believed he is an absolute expert. He left ship start of 19 only then he knew/assumed there won´t be production before the end of the investment cycle (Nordman left Heighway bc he foresaw the crash).
Nordman was unemployed just like everybody else they hired off the street. “Barry O and Nordman never would have joine deep root if they didn’t believe in it!!”
Really? As long as they believed the checks would clear that was probably
Enough.
I think most people are trusting Steve Bowden's judgement at this point. Isn't he still like the only noteworthy name that people trust over there? (I hope the best for Steve and that his passion for pinball isn't being exploited)
I hadn't realized Deeproot closed their Utah studio. Not too surprising I guess, but I always thought it could have been a key asset of theirs. Utah has low key had a lot of great video game studios there over the years. Lots of talented developers in the area. I also always had a sneaking suspicion that deeproot was going to make digital versions of all their physical tables for simultaneous releases. (Brings in a ton of revenue, takes off some of the pressure to build actual games, and gives them the easy out to say they technically sold/shipped more "pinball" than their competitors)
Oh well. I'll see if this conversation is any different in another four months. But I have a sneaking suspicion it won't be and that I'll find out the news just as fast as anyone in this dumpster fire.
Quoted from Makakka:That 2nd studio RM shut dowm was a bit dubious I give you that. Maybe just for investors but maybe we see content from that studio in machines.
I don’t think it’s really “for the investors”. The money dried up
The promises made on the 575 Deeproot fund Trump the pinball funding effort from those funds
It became a poor investment for the 575 fund as an “affiliate” is my assumption and no more ability to raise $$$
We will find out in September when the SEC filing is due
No business can operate for years without any revenue.
Put RAZA out and start bringing something in the door, unless there is no money to build it?
Take it with a grain of salt, but there was a message posted on Glassdoor on August 1st:
-Doesn't Recommend
-Negative Outlook
I worked at Deeproot Tech full-time (More than a year)
Pros
-Flexible work times
-Very little overtime
Cons
-Unprofessional management.
-Everything is at the owners whim.
-Management does what makes themselves look good to the owner at the cost of
productivity and moral.
It started as a great company to work for, a company that (even though it was small and unknown) I was proud to work for. But sadly, that didn't last.
Advice to Management
Listen to the professionals you hired to do the job.
To the owner, just because its your company doesn't mean you always get what you want or think you deserve.
Go back to the basics, this company started as a great place to work but that quickly changed.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Nordman was unemployed just like everybody else they hired off the street. “Barry O and Nordman never would have joine deep root if they didn’t believe in it!!”
Really? As long as they believed the checks would clear that was probably
Enough.
This is not true. Barry and Dennis both were employed at the time they joined DR.
Quoted from okgrak:just because its your company doesn't mean you always get what you want
RM took a serious mental blow when he realised there won’t be a release in 2020.
Quoted from okgrak:or think you deserve.
He probably got fired.
Maybe the covid excuse saves RMs ass. It may prolong the patience of the investors. He probably needs some fresh money to fire up production. JJP received fresh money Heighway went broke.
Quoted from TreyBo69:see if this conversation is any different in another four months
No but a lot less emotional than 2 years ago.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Weeks since last livesign: Five
Someone told me it‘s only days away...
While you also can measure eternity in days, it‘s nice to hear that they‘re still on it and some people believe in them.
Six.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:the issue is the Zidware suckers have already been "made whole" like 3 times and for the most part it always disastrously implodes. It's like a very sadistic Groundhog Day game for these folks.
I'll quote Ben heck "This can only end in tears."
Maybe its the curse of the dead gods that Zidware clientel is always with a Jpop company but shall never get whole.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I think most people are trusting Steve Bowden's judgement at this point. Isn't he still like the only noteworthy name that people trust over there? (I hope the best for Steve and that his passion for pinball isn't being exploited)
As far as I know, David Thiel is still with deeproot. He seems noteworthy and someone I'd trust with his experience in the video game and pinball industries.
Quoted from brucipher:As far as I know, David Thiel is still with deeproot. He seems noteworthy and someone I'd trust with his experience in the video game and pinball industries.
No sign of Deeproot on his LinkedIn, and he specifically names them as a "client" in various settings, so he doesn't appear to be affiliated with them as an employee
Quoted from brucipher:As far as I know, David Thiel is still with deeproot. He seems noteworthy and someone I'd trust with his experience in the video game and pinball industries.
If the checks are clearing that’s all he needs to know.
People are grasping at straws to try to convince themselves this isn’t a disaster and the j pop games of their fantasies will one day be flowing out of the factory like a River of day glow neon.
Hey you know roger sharpe was working for Dutch pinball at one point right? None of that means anything. Except that their paychecks are clearing.
Just found this, Deeproot received PPP money:
https://www.cnn.com/projects/ppp-business-loans/businesses/deeproot-studios-llc
Screen Shot 2020-08-12 at 9.01.32 PM (resized).pngInteresting, a separate application for Deeproot tech.
https://www.cnn.com/projects/ppp-business-loans/businesses/deeproot-tech-llc
Screen Shot 2020-08-12 at 9.04.41 PM (resized).pngQuoted from frolic:Just found this, Deeproot received PPP money:
I believe that all the pin manufacturers received this loan, one didn't take it (AP)
There was some posting about this a while back!
Quoted from transprtr4u:I believe that all the pin manufacturers received this loan, one didn't take it (AP)
There was some posting about this a while back!
Ah. Didn't see that thread.
Cary and Kaneda said in late May they were invited by RM to a factory tour loosely dated for late July 2020. That is the special recorded tour the deeprot website speaks of.
This tour hasn´t happened (yet). It is a substitute for a "grand" title launch (deeproot website). .
Quoted from transprtr4u:all the pin manufacturers received this loan
Its a good sign maybe that 2 million is enough fresh capital to get production rolling. If RM knew deproot wont make it he could go to jail for credit fraud and lose his license to practice law. Also that vocal ex employee we had here for example could put a nail into his coffin in that regard as a valuable witness in State against RM. So that he took the loan is a good sign for the health of deeproot.
Quoted from Makakka:Cary and Kaneda said in late May they were invited by RM to a factory tour loosely dated for late July 2020. That is the special recorded tour the deeprot website speaks of.
This tour hasn´t happened (yet). It is a substitute for a "grand" title launch (deeproot website). .Its a good sign maybe that 2 million is enough fresh capital to get production rolling. If RM knew deproot wont make it he could go to jail for credit fraud and lose his license to practice law. Also that vocal ex employee we had here for example could put a nail into his coffin in that regard as a valuable witness in State against RM. So that he took the loan is a good sign for the health of deeproot.
No it isn't - most of those loans were "forgivable" if the company is under major strain. There aren't even requirements to prove you still have employees or that all the money was paid to employee compensation
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If the checks are clearing that’s all he needs to know.
People are grasping at straws to try to convince themselves this isn’t a disaster and the j pop games of their fantasies will one day be flowing out of the factory like a River of day glow neon.
Hey you know roger sharpe was working for Dutch pinball at one point right? None of that means anything. Except that their paychecks are clearing.
The person I replied to made a comment about nobody else noteworthy being at deeproot. I never said just because he is at deeproot that things are fine - on the contrary, I personally think deeproot is f'd. I was just stating that I thought he was still at deeproot (which may not be the case) and seems trustworthy and is a noteworthy person.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:No it isn't - most of those loans were "forgivable" if the company is under major strain. There aren't even requirements to prove you still have employees or that all the money was paid to employee compensation
?
Forgiveness is based on using the loan for the approved expenses. The largest portion being the payroll expenses.. and employee counts and retention are part of the calculations. It's largely self-reporting... but "willing to commit fraud" is not the same thing as "there aren't requirements to prove..." that you are claiming legal exceptions.
Quoted from toyotaboy:those loans are forgiven so long as you are a legit business with employees.
I guess that is the real question when it comes to Deeproot !
Quoted from flynnibus:?
Forgiveness is based on using the loan for the approved expenses. The largest portion being the payroll expenses.. and employee counts and retention are part of the calculations. It's largely self-reporting... but "willing to commit fraud" is not the same thing as "there aren't requirements to prove..." that you are claiming legal exceptions.
self-reporting. By definition you do not need proof. A lot of the companies we work with have had to lay people off and they were still able to get their loan forgiven, even though the employees no longer work there. When they initially submitted, they had employees. 8 weeks later or whatever.. no longer the case.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:self-reporting. By definition you do not need proof. A lot of the companies we work with have had to lay people off and they were still able to get their loan forgiven, even though the employees no longer work there. When they initially submitted, they had employees. 8 weeks later or whatever.. no longer the case.
My wife works at a private high school that got a PPP loan. You need to document the shit out of it, aka prove it, to get forgiveness. It’s the lender who facilitates forgiveness not the feds. Yes you self report but the bank has to sign off on it. The school had to deposit the money specifically in a new account to build a chain of custody of the money; then switch payroll to come out of that new account for the time period.
Yes I’m sure some businesses retained employees for 8 weeks then laid them off after, but it’s not the businesses fault the 8 week shutdown time was squandered and we didn’t build a national testing/tracing program.
Quoted from iceman44:No excuses. AP, Stern and Spooky all delivering games
I'll add Multimorphic, P3 to that list. And they may be a better comparison as they are a young company also based in Texas. Subjected to the same Texas state laws and Covid limitations, etc.
Both Deeproot and Multimorphic announced a new game to be revealed at the Texas Pinball Festival last March. TPF was canceled but Multimorphic adapted by following through and is delivering a hit game.
Put a f ing game out there with all that $$ spent and the last several years FFS
I’m regretting my decision to forego the Jpop payment now. Yeah that was stupid on my part
Call it for what it is. Absolutely terrible execution thus far
The 575 fund is another story. Good luck with that.
The whole thing is turning into a monster shit show
Quoted from iceman44:Put a f ing game out there with all that $$ spent and the last several years FFS
I’m regretting my decision to forego the Jpop payment now. Yeah that was stupid on my part
Call it for what it is. Absolutely terrible execution thus far
The 575 fund is another story. Good luck with that.
The whole thing is turning into a monster shit show
Definitely too hot out not to put down a few ice cold ones and at least try to relax. And play the games we do have. After all, I may never see a Sledge Hammer! either.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:self-reporting. By definition you do not need proof
No thats not what self reporting means
A lot of the companies we work with have had to lay people off and they were still able to get their loan forgiven, even though the employees no longer work there. When they initially submitted, they had employees. 8 weeks later or whatever.. no longer the case.
Sure - there are reasons its allowed - still doesn’t mean what you said in last post. For instance businesses are not punished if employees refused to return. There is a lot that goes into the determination and calculations. Certainly NOT “There aren't even requirements to prove you still have employees or that all the money was paid to employee compensation” as you stated.
Quoted from iceman44:Put a f ing game out there with all that $$ spent and the last several years FFS
I’m regretting my decision to forego the Jpop payment now. Yeah that was stupid on my part
Call it for what it is. Absolutely terrible execution thus far
The 575 fund is another story. Good luck with that.
The whole thing is turning into a monster shit show
This is always the problem when taking investors money. You start a clock ticking and if you miscalculate (as they clearly did here) things start getting desperate. It is really really hard doing something the first time. People criticize AP and JJP and even Spooky for all their early trip ups. Actually what they have pulled off is the exception not the rule. I was stunned by what they pulled off. DR is the rule, as in the 9 out of 10 VC plays that don’t work out. Productivity and efficiency are really hard commodities to get right. Trust me on that, as I am living thru a lot of the same hell in my startup that DR is going thru trying to finish a product. It ain’t easy, none of it is ever easy. But if they have any money left they need to clean house and bring in a manager that knows the business and can get sh*t done. They have no other option at this point.
Quoted from Mr68:I'll add Multimorphic, P3 to that list. And they may be a better comparison as they are a young company also based in Texas. Subjected to the same Texas state laws and Covid limitations, etc.
Both Deeproot and Multimorphic announced a new game to be revealed at the Texas Pinball Festival last March. TPF was canceled but Multimorphic adapted by following through and is delivering a hit game.
I should be getting one in a couple months! They seem to have had a lot of orders of Heist
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I should be getting one in a couple months! They seem to have had a lot of orders of Heist
You will love it. I've had mine for about 3 months now and it's the best game I've owned in a very, very long time.
Quoted from Mr68:You will love it. I've had mine for about 3 months now and it's the best game I've owned in a very, very long time.
WOW.
I'm pretty psyched. The playfield is packed, the crane looks like it's well-integrated, and the game has a ton of modes and shots. The playfield reminds me a bit of GB, due to the city landscape ,I think. Just looks crazy fun to shoot. I'm figuring I'll pick up CCR eventually too. I've been thinking of mods for that one to dress it up a bit.
so... if Deeproot ever comes up with a game, I can compare with Multimorphic's offerings!
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