Quoted from hank527:Does anyone care at this point? All we get is noise and empty promises.
Nope.
(Topic ID: 203700)
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Allyn, WA
Quoted from DS_Nadine:RM did say that they want to use that hunger for new stuff when the Covid ban lifts, so... better do it quickly.
yea, especially since Stern production has ramped back up. They don't put out a game out now, everyone is going to hungrily go buy a TMNT. Without pinball shows to play at, a lot of people are going to be dying to play a new game.
If it were my company, I would've done a live 3 hour online 4K stream to showcase the product, some in-depth game play and did some live chat Q&A.
Enabled the shopping cart and started selling. I can't foresee RAZA being much different/better than the last videos we were provided. This is literally a "go for broke" moment they should embrace. Seriously, a prime example is have you guys/gals noticed shipping from Amazon has slowed down? Have you noticed so many products are out of stock? Have you noticed that trying to get construction people in to do a job is super tough because they're booked out for months now? FACTOID: People spend money when they're bored (idle hands is the devils playground). He should capitalize on this moment especially since there's nothing new coming down the pike anytime soon that I'm aware of.
Like a lot of people, I interpret silence from a business as something negative. I've never understood when companies/business ventures/kickstarters go quiet. Obviously, they need to be careful what they share, and they need to be careful not to accidentally overshare or overpromise. But there's never an excuse for total silence. In a lot of cases, total silence means bad news. Ala' Dutch Pinball or the Stern Coffee table book, just to name a couple of recent examples in pinball alone.
And so if there is no bad news, then all the more reason to keep communication flowing. Even if it's just a brief update once in a while, with no real information. Anything is better than nothing.
Quoted from hank527:Does anyone care at this point? All we get is noise and empty promises.
I care! And I'm willing to wait for them to get it right.
Quoted from hank527:Does anyone care at this point? All we get is noise and empty promises.
I think everybody wants to see how this movie will end. And I want Popadiuk to settle his debts with everyone.
Quoted from Mr68:I think everybody wants to see how this movie will end. And I want Popadiuk to settle his debts with everyone.
The JPOP debt was settled. (community wise) DR announced they'd take responsibility for that debacle and allowed people to get money back or when the time came to get two machines instead. The debt now belongs to DR not JPOP
Quoted from CLEllison:The JPOP debt was settled. (community wise) DR announced they'd take responsibility for that debacle and allowed people to get money back or when the time came to get two machines instead. The debt now belongs to DR not JPOP
to see that it was not settled and the dozens and dozens of names from our community that were stiffed.
Pin people get antsy and want the new shiny - even if that means just new to them and not NIB. Like video games, a vast majority of the sales come in close to launch.
Case in point: I have friends who put in money for a Rick and Morty that are already considering setting their spots because they want to buy something else in the mean time.
Until they can make games (e.g.: lockdown lifted, supply chain in place), I don’t see the point in launching.
Quoted from cjchand:Pin people get antsy and want the new shiny - even if that means just new to them and not NIB. Like video games, a vast majority of the sales come in close to launch.
Case in point: I have friends who put in money for a Rick and Morty that are already considering setting their spots because they want to buy something else in the mean time.
Until they can make games (e.g.: lockdown lifted, supply chain in place), I don’t see the point in launching.
I sincerely want them to succeed - who wouldn't, but this thread started 2 years ago. And the only thing they have shown was a beta version of one pin. Their pin might be fantastic in the end (and I hope it is), but their marketing dept. (or lack of) leaves a lot to be desired. They have built zero 'hype' over their pins. Case in point: Haggis Pinball - With literally a handful of people, have done a great job of keeping the interest up on their pin even during a global lockdown.
I guess another way to look at it is some really impressive homebrews, each made mostly by one person in a garage or basement, were made in less time than an army at DP.
Has to be very frustrating to anyone interested.
Quoted from CLEllison:The JPOP debt was settled. (community wise) DR announced they'd take responsibility for that debacle and allowed people to get money back or when the time came to get two machines instead. The debt now belongs to DR not JPOP
nope... DR tried to buy off a bunch of zidware's customers to free up the liabilities against zidware, but that didn't mean DR aquired zidware at the time, nor did they settle all of zidware's liabilities. Which is why zidware is still trying to file bankruptcy...
Quoted from flynnibus:nope... DR tried to buy off a bunch of zidware's customers to free up the liabilities against zidware, but that didn't mean DR aquired zidware at the time, nor did they settle all of zidware's liabilities. Which is why zidware is still trying to file bankruptcy...
After I read your post I put my chin into my chest lol. Sorry guys, it was my understanding that Robert settled JPOPS debt and that it was water under the bridge.
Düsseldorf
Quoted from CLEllison:After I read your post I put my chin into my chest lol. Sorry guys, it was my understanding that Robert settled JPOPS debt and that it was water under the bridge.
He did for the people that accepted.
He did not for the people who still want to pursue in court.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:He did for the people that accepted.
He did not for the people who still want to pursue in court.
And werent some of the people who accepted, expecting to get a game out of the deal? Those people have not been made whole.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:And werent some of the people who accepted, expecting to get a game out of the deal? Those people have not been made whole.
I'll bet Robert regrets this now. It seems like a very nice thing to do for JPOP and his 'customers', but I assume he was trying to buy built-in goodwill, a nearly-finished game design, and gain help in his new business from JPOP. But as the delivery and launch of Deeproot has extended, most of these customer-threads don't sound very grateful. Why? Is a lawsuit likely to gain them more?
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:And werent some of the people who accepted, expecting to get a game out of the deal? Those people have not been made whole.
The "offer" also ended in 2018. Basically sign a wall of legal text for a promissory note from someone else with nothing shown. Sign now "on faith", or get nothing. Not exactly the best way to rehab jpop's reputation. I'm still not sure why the "on faith" was forced so much. To not let people wait till later until there was something shown. Anyhow, it is what it is at this point and jpop is still a toxic personality.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:He did for the people that accepted.
He did not for the people who still want to pursue in court.
kinda...
He offered people a deal if they signed up to an agreement to not sue zidware or John (and drop any ongoing litigation). Of course some people have gotten compensation out of that DR offer.. some are still waiting for their DR compensation.
But for the context of the conversation it's important to understand that deal was made "independent" of zidware so it speak.. it was a 3rd party offering a deal if you agreed to walk away from zidware's liabilities. Complicating the issue is of course John himself was not totally independent of DR.
Alas that deal was for game buyers... and didn't represent the many other kinds of bad debts zidware had outstanding too.
As pointed out in the bankruptcy paperwork.. we can see the list of people zidware still owed money to was.. long and distinguished.
It's a crazy saga that still has no end in sight.. but I do wonder if DR's taste for it has waned... or if John got RM on the hook to see it till the end. That would be a fun coup by John.
Quoted from flynnibus:kinda...
He offered people a deal if they signed up to an agreement to not sue zidware or John (and drop any ongoing litigation). Of course some people have gotten compensation out of that DR offer.. some are still waiting for their DR compensation.
But for the context of the conversation it's important to understand that deal was made "independent" of zidware so it speak.. it was a 3rd party offering a deal if you agreed to walk away from zidware's liabilities. Complicating the issue is of course John himself was not totally independent of DR.
Alas that deal was for game buyers... and didn't represent the many other kinds of bad debts zidware had outstanding too.
As pointed out in the bankruptcy paperwork.. we can see the list of people zidware still owed money to was.. long and distinguished.
It's a crazy saga that still has no end in sight.. but I do wonder if DR's taste for it has waned... or if John got RM on the hook to see it till the end. That would be a fun coup by John.
I have to imagine literally everybody in the pinball business regrets crossing paths with Jpop at this point. I doubt there’s a single person who’s life is anything but worse off for it.
Except maybe zombie yeti?
Regardless, I can’t imagine this is what deep root had in mind. Yes they got a ton of initial publicity because of it but besides that they’ve got nothing to show for it but a whole lotta bullshit and dead weight.
It’a not like they weren’t given ample warning.
Quoted from hank527:Does anyone care at this point? All we get is noise and empty promises.
What?? That's a fairly egocentric question. There are quite a few of us who actually have some skin in the game that care.
Quoted from SDpinballer:Not me.
Me neither. One of the worst themes for a new pinball game in years as far as I'm concerned. And there have been quite a few to top.
What do they think we are now, a bunch of grown men that never made it thru puberty and still eat Smurf Berry cereal for breakfast?
Quoted from Fulltilt:What?? That's a fairly egocentric question. There are quite a few of us who actually have some skin in the game that care.
Should have gotten your $$$ when you had the chance. DR is in deepshit.
Quoted from Roostking:Should have gotten your $$$ when you had the chance. DR is in deepshit.
Always take the money back when you can, always.
Quoted from tech25:whats the latest on this company??? damn..stern is destroying them. TMNT is coming out. how many more pins before they do anything??
Are they going belly up??
Id say they will go belly up even if they manage to get out a few titles.
But, this is a guess. But, 8 ball says most likely.
Quoted from Roostking:Should have gotten your $$$ when you had the chance. DR is in deepshit.
It boggles the mind that there are people who didn’t get their money back when they had the chance. If you still have “skin in the game” at this point you are probably a masochist.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Id say they will go belly up even if they manage to get out a few titles.
But, this is a guess. But, 8 ball says most likely.
The actual question is, will they ever even manage to push one game out?
I really root for them, but with the most recent intended goal to release something to the corona-bored market; if they're not at least able to update their website within the next days, I'd say it's propably over (before it even began).
While 100% speculative:
I do assume they have their game ready. I do assume they have problems getting a line ready to run, wich is understandable. But I do also assume they're out of capital, but with a product so close to launch are searching for investors to get this up and running.
Paris
Quoted from DS_Nadine:The actual question is, will they ever even manage to push one game out?
I really root for them, but with the most recent intended goal to release something to the corona-bored market; if they're not at least able to update their website within the next days, I'd say it's propably over (before it even began).
While 100% speculative:
I do assume they have their game ready. I do assume they have problems getting a line ready to run, wich is understandable. But I do also assume they're out of capital, but with a product so close to launch are searching for investors to get this up and running.
After so many years of R&D, they have to show something. I root for them but if they don’t, it’s really sad. I don’t know why they don’t communicate better and why they seem to recognize all their competitors qualities now.... not a good sign for me.
Quoted from noitbe1:After so many years of R&D, they have to show something. I root for them but if they don’t, it’s really sad. I don’t know why they don’t communicate better and why they seem to recognize all their competitors qualities now.... not a good sign for me.
I was hoping for something...but apparently they are having so much fun planning and talking pinball they are way too busy to sell any.!?
Meanwhile at Deeproot HQ reading pinside:
Edmonton, AB
Quoted from transprtr4u:JJP teaser trailer just released
Did I miss something?
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Did I miss something?
Just found this.
And this...
I do like it.
At least we don’t had to wait forever for this one.
Quoted from noitbe1:Just found this.
And this...
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-deep-dive-in-depth-overview-of-the-machine-features-rules-and-more/
I do like it.
At least we don’t had to wait forever for this one.
Yeah, but that's not JJP. 
And yes I'm positive about everything TMNT but I need a story or "goal" wich I'm working towards, like BKSoR (aka. defeat the Black Knight).
This is why I'm generally interrested in DR, sicne they really said they intend to deliver in that regard.
I don't want to play random modes and I don't want to replay a movie (I can watch the movie if I want the movie).
I like a clear goal like "Save the Princess" or "Defeat the evil Badass".
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Yeah, but that's not JJP.
And yes I'm positive about everything TMNT but I need a story or "goal" wich I'm working towards, like BKSoR (aka. defeat the Black Knight).
This is why I'm generally interrested in DR, sicne they really said they intend to deliver in that regard.
I don't want to play random modes and I don't want to replay a movie (I can watch the movie if I want the movie).
I like a clear goal like "Save the Princess" or "Defeat the evil Badass".
Yes, that’s why I’m here as well...
Why not renaming this thread: « chat on new released games waiting for Deeproot »
I really hope it will push them and in the good direction. They need pinball fans (us) to review and encourage them and promote them. At least, that’s the way I see it..unless there is nothing to show.
Quoted from Roostking:Should have gotten your $$$ when you had the chance. DR is in deepshit.
You don’t get it. Money isn’t the issue any longer.
Quoted from Fulltilt:You don’t get it. Money isn’t the issue any longer.
If you say that in a Clint Eastwood voice it’s chilling
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Always take the money back when you can, always.
"Sir, I'm going to need to see your law license and proof of malpractice insurance"
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If you say that in a Clint Eastwood voice it’s chilling
42DFE73E-B3EF-471C-9B8D-D66475F47E4F (resized).jpegMan I just don’t get this whole thing with DR and their execution
A week away from the big reveal and now two months later and nothing because they want their “vanity reveal” with people and media
Announce and start selling
As for Jpop, the offer to the community was a chump change drop in the bucket.
Others chose to go down the legal route which is nothing but a winner for the lawyers
Why bring Jpop on board? He needed a name to raise the $35 million or so
Practically speaking, it was a terrible decision
Quoted from iceman44:Man I just don’t get this whole thing with DR and their execution
A week away from the big reveal and now two months later and nothing because they want their “vanity reveal” with people and media
Announce and start selling
As for Jpop, the offer to the community was a chump change drop in the bucket.
Others chose to go down the legal route which is nothing but a winner for the lawyers
Why bring Jpop on board? He needed a name to raise the $35 million or so
Practically speaking, it was a terrible decision
Actually I agree with Ice on all these points...and I am not even drunk 
Quoted from benheck:"Sir, I'm going to need to see your law license and proof of malpractice insurance"
Only 2 years law. It was boring. Helps in real life from time to time.
Always take the money over promises.
It really is a good moto to live by Ben.
Quoted from Goronic:Actually I agree with Ice on all these points...and I am not even drunk
Yeah,... the end is nigh... 
Wow. It took me three evenings to read this thread. I may need to take a few days to recover before I start wading farther back into JPop lore.
After all the bluster, Deeproot's latest interview is really puzzling.
Other manufacturers' near-term strategies seem pretty clear:
- Stern claims to have 13 different games in production right now. If there's a game you're prepared to pay NIB prices for, Stern is probably selling it.
- JJP likewise has pretty much their full lineup available in one form or another, although they may have largely saturated the market for these pins.
- Spooky: 'We have Rick & Morty. Please send us money at your earliest convenience.'
- American Pinball: 'You don't want Rick & Morty. What you want is Hot Wheels. What we want is your money.'
Normally, when you've only announced one specific product, the smart move would be to copy Spooky and AP -- attempt to market the living daylights out of that product. Instead Deeproot seems to be diving headlong into the Osborne effect, downplaying RAZA in favor of... what, exactly? Some terribly exciting future product which can't yet be discussed because... why, exactly?
It's a strategy that makes utterly no sense if the company is actually trying to make a near-to-mid-term business out of selling pinball machines. It only makes sense when I think about it as being targeted to investors, not players. Someone mentioned this earlier in the thread (and I'm sorry I'm not giving you credit, but I'm not wading through this thing again): the moment you start to act like you're actually trying to make money, your investors immediately start grading you based on how well you're doing it. So if DR predicts that sales of RAZA will be tepid, it makes an odd sort of corporate sense to say 'no, no, this doesn't count, this is just a test, what you really want is the shiny machine behind the curtain.'
Of course, that's a dubious long-term strategy, because they do eventually need to earn money, and that has to be done by selling people the machines they have rather than the machines they wish they will eventually have. But it's also true that sometimes your long-term strategy has to be 'Survive long enough to worry about having a long-term strategy.'
Quoted from KickahaOta:Wow. It took me three evenings to read this thread.
Why? It’s about 15 minutes worth of real information.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Why? It’s about 15 minutes worth of real information.
Apparently I have to reach 100 thumbs-up before I'm allowed to use the "Only show real information" checkbox. Only 5 more to go!
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