Rockwall, TX
Quoted from iceman44:Drinking? No way dudes, I’m gonna have what you are having. Roll up some tasty Doobies and fire up the crack pipe later!
Should be fun times
Hugs, not drugs 
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
Quoted from o-din:I'm a very patient man.
So I'm hoping for the big Sledge Hammer! reveal by Christmas now.
That’s been talked about so much at this point, I am really psyched for it!
Quoted from razorsedge:I'll split my sides when DR Actually releases Sledgehammer!
A license harder to get than Harry Potter. 
Quoted from o-din:A license harder to get than Harry Potter.
Well .... Space Cadet was too hard .... soooooo ? 
Quoted from o-din:A license harder to get than Harry Potter.
...and racing, Mario Cart?
My guess is Robert picked up the Timeshock! license and project.
https://www.facebook.com/silvercastlepinball
Although if we was going to partner with another boutique team, I'd prefer Pinball Circus.
I just listened to K-mans interview, I thought it was good but I take issue with Roberts statement that Deeproot created RAZA from nothing. I was an original RAZA buyer who gave JPOP my hard earned money and received nothing in return. I was in the owners blog for years and watched RAZA develop, there are plenty of things used from the original design that were funded by us JPOP customers and are now being used by Deeproot.
Quoted from Concretehardt:I just listened to K-mans interview, I thought it was good but I take issue with Roberts statement that Deeproot created RAZA from nothing. I was an original RAZA buyer who gave JPOP my hard earned money and received nothing in return. I was in the owners blog for years and watched RAZA develop, there are plenty of things used from the original design that were funded by us JPOP customers and are now being used by Deeproot.
I thought that comment was kind of interesting as well Concrete as you and i both were right there from the actual beginning of RAZA.
Just got a chance to listen to the interview on my way back home from the beach this afternoon and several things in addition to the above comment struck me as a bit strange.
I'm not sure why you would say you are going to limit RAZA sales to 500/750? This game has been in development for at least 6 years or so? When you say you don't want it to "clog your production" line that sort of baffles me. And that you want to use RAZA to "work the kinks out". It begs the question doesn't it, what exactly is the "production capability" of Deeproot? I don't think it will sell that many btw unless they did it Spooky style.
Limiting RAZA while at the same time having multiple art options and other custom items in the game? I don't get that part either.
I also don't understand the continued fascination with JPOP. Maybe John has also learned from his mistakes but i thought Kaneda had a great question regarding Magic Girl. "What was John thinking re x, y, z.....?" Does he really get it? Or is he leading everybody down the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole?
It was good to hear they admitted the mistake on the RAZA ramp and fixing it instead of continuing to make excuses for it.
What is objectively clear is that there has been a failure of execution over the past 3 1/2 years. This is an "execution" business that is based on pinball sales, especially missing a sales time frame that was the best pinball has ever seen.
Sometimes going to the "University of Failure" and hard knocks is some of the best schooling ever! I also don't believe you can be successful going in and out of being "passionate" about what you are doing. I'd go back to a Buffet saying, "if you aren't willing to invest in a company for 10 yrs you shouldn't spend 10 minutes in it". News flash, how long has successful Stern pinball been in business? 27 years now, many ups and downs.
It does sound like he has finally gotten the needed "focus" in place on actually creating a pinball machine and getting a "win", with an all hands on deck approach. "Working for minimum wage" and "taking years of my life" is what it takes to build a successful business. Not expecting that going in seems a bit naive?
As for the "coding" approach, i don't get that either, every individual is going to work on every aspect of every game in the production line of coding versus the way Stern does it with "coding teams". I'll be interested to see how that plays out. One bad link in the chain makes them all inferior. I don't believe it's going to work well.
You can have a "Game Plan" all day long, your goals and your wishes, but it always comes down to execution and learning from your mistakes. Sometimes ego and arrogance get in the way of making sound business decisions.
We all live and learn every day. Hopefully the "learn" part sticks. To me Robert is too focused on "having his day in the sun" with some blown out media launch. He also mentioned that "prior to Covid-19, they were on pace to "break the record" of introducing 9-10 games in a given year". I assume he meant 2020. What?......
What exactly is the cadence of these future games? He mentioned we wouldn't see the big time Harry Potter type title until 2021 and that due to complexity wouldn't see Magic Girl or Alice in Wonderland beyond that? That's another major head scratcher to me.
The most difficult time is ahead for them it seems to me. Think about it, Stern has approx. 300 employees and they were up to at least 15k games per year production wise. That is called "execution".
Being able to "scale up" to meet demand, and the ebb and flow thereof, will be the biggest challenge these guys are going to face. Ask JJP.
How many pinball games need to be sold to reach breakeven?
Why did Mattel choose American Pinball over Deeproot with all of the DR resources?
People have already seen RAZA! Get it out there and start shipping it. Then you can do the vanity launch at a later date.
I wish them luck, the long road ahead is just beginning. It's time to execute. Bottom line is you just gotta get it done! GL guys
2 points (total 100% speculation on my part)
They will prob limit RAZA because it’s not profitable for them. They will give a lot of them away for free essentially, and unless the game takes off like a rocket, (which is a long shot), they can’t do enough volume to make up the difference.
I’m certain Mattel picked AP over DR because they have delivered games. Mattel is too big to take a risk and be helping little startups get off the ground
Quoted from Reznnate:My guess is Robert picked up the Timeshock! license and project.
https://www.facebook.com/silvercastlepinball
Although if we was going to partner with another boutique team, I'd prefer Pinball Circus.
This would be awesome!!!!!!!!
Düsseldorf
Unknown
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Mattel is too big to take a risk and be helping little startups get off the ground
I don't think Deeproot will survive (based on history and what I read here, so what I think isn't of that much value), but I wouldn't call Deeproot a 'little' startup. That said, I think they'd have more chance to survive if they were a little startup instead of a big one.
Quoted from iceman44:I thought that comment was kind of interesting as well Concrete as you and i both were right there from the actual beginning of RAZA.
Just got a chance to listen to the interview on my way back home from the beach this afternoon and several things in addition to the above comment struck me as a bit strange.
I'm not sure why you would say you are going to limit RAZA sales to 500/750? This game has been in development for at least 6 years or so? When you say you don't want it to "clog your production" line that sort of baffles me. And that you want to use RAZA to "work the kinks out". It begs the question doesn't it, what exactly is the "production capability" of Deeproot? I don't think it will sell that many btw unless they did it Spooky style.
Limiting RAZA while at the same time having multiple art options and other custom items in the game? I don't get that part either.
I also don't understand the continued fascination with JPOP. Maybe John has also learned from his mistakes but i thought Kaneda had a great question regarding Magic Girl. "What was John thinking re x, y, z.....?" Does he really get it? Or is he leading everybody down the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole?
It was good to hear they admitted the mistake on the RAZA ramp and fixing it instead of continuing to make excuses for it.
What is objectively clear is that there has been a failure of execution over the past 3 1/2 years. This is an "execution" business that is based on pinball sales, especially missing a sales time frame that was the best pinball has ever seen.
Sometimes going to the "University of Failure" and hard knocks is some of the best schooling ever! I also don't believe you can be successful going in and out of being "passionate" about what you are doing. I'd go back to a Buffet saying, "if you aren't willing to invest in a company for 10 yrs you shouldn't spend 10 minutes in it". News flash, how long has successful Stern pinball been in business? 27 years now, many ups and downs.
It does sound like he has finally gotten the needed "focus" in place on actually creating a pinball machine and getting a "win", with an all hands on deck approach. "Working for minimum wage" and "taking years of my life" is what it takes to build a successful business. Not expecting that going in seems a bit naive?
As for the "coding" approach, i don't get that either, every individual is going to work on every aspect of every game in the production line of coding versus the way Stern does it with "coding teams". I'll be interested to see how that plays out. One bad link in the chain makes them all inferior. I don't believe it's going to work well.
You can have a "Game Plan" all day long, your goals and your wishes, but it always comes down to execution and learning from your mistakes. Sometimes ego and arrogance get in the way of making sound business decisions.
We all live and learn every day. Hopefully the "learn" part sticks. To me Robert is too focused on "having his day in the sun" with some blown out media launch. He also mentioned that "prior to Covid-19, they were on pace to "break the record" of introducing 9-10 games in a given year". I assume he meant 2020. What?......
What exactly is the cadence of these future games? He mentioned we wouldn't see the big time Harry Potter type title until 2021 and that due to complexity wouldn't see Magic Girl or Alice in Wonderland beyond that? That's another major head scratcher to me.
The most difficult time is ahead for them it seems to me. Think about it, Stern has approx. 300 employees and they were up to at least 15k games per year production wise. That is called "execution".
Being able to "scale up" to meet demand, and the ebb and flow thereof, will be the biggest challenge these guys are going to face. Ask JJP.
How many pinball games need to be sold to reach breakeven?
Why did Mattel choose American Pinball over Deeproot with all of the DR resources?
People have already seen RAZA! Get it out there and start shipping it. Then you can do the vanity launch at a later date.
I wish them luck, the long road ahead is just beginning. It's time to execute. Bottom line is you just gotta get it done! GL guys
I had to split that reading up into 3 separate seatings.
Quoted from Daditude:reading
Wrong. He used plenty of line breaks.
It's the wall of texts with no line breaks that are unreadable.
I'd rather read a long thoughtful post then a one sentence critique from a nitpicking troll.
mof.
Corona virus still does not explain why the first game they reveal and finish... is not the game they wanted to be launch title.
How does that happen?
Paris
Quoted from flynnibus:Corona virus still does not explain why the first game they reveal and finish... is not the game they wanted to be launch title.
How does that happen?
Maybe they don’t think it will sell that well. The lack of license, the risk... I think if the game is well done, there is no reason to sell only 500 of these.
Quoted from noitbe1:Maybe they don’t think it will sell that well. The lack of license, the risk... I think if the game is well done, there is no reason to sell only 500 of these.
That doesn't answer the question... if you have all those uncertainties, why make it your launch title? Heck, if they feel what you say, why make it at all?
Remember.. Deeproot was NOT obligated to make RAZA - THEY CHOSE TO. And apparently is the game they chose to invest in so that it's the farthest along (at least as we know..)
So now, why after 3 years do you say 'well it wasn't meant to be the launch title...' and downplay it sales? This has nothing to do with Cornoa... this has to do with what they've been doing and their business strategy for the years leading up to this.
Quoted from flynnibus:That doesn't answer the question... if you have all those uncertainties, why make it your launch title? Heck, if they feel what you say, why make it at all?
Remember.. Deeproot was NOT obligated to make RAZA - THEY CHOSE TO. And apparently is the game they chose to invest in so that it's the farthest along (at least as we know..)
So now, why after 3 years do you say 'well it wasn't meant to be the launch title...' and downplay it sales? This has nothing to do with Cornoa... this has to do with what they've been doing and their business strategy for the years leading up to this.
I think the first question is: why hire Jpop in the first place? He's a polarizing individual in the community. That's pretty well known - and he already screwed over *another* company before DR. So unless DR has their head in the sand, there's a main reason to hire him: he's a well known designer, has hits from 25 years ago - and is controversial. So if you subscribe to the "Controversy Creates Cash" mindset... he's a perfect fit. Now, you hire JPop so you get the marketing blitz and the community is talking about your company left and right ("there is no such thing as bad publicity").
Ok, JPOP is on board. Now how do you calm some of the teeth gnashing and the risk of litigation (a la Predator). Weigh out whether building 500 RAZA is less expensive than a long, drawn out lawsuit (even if it's ultimately thrown out, its a lot of money and time to waste on something that's not making games). So in this case - maybe that's it. Making 500 games that "don't clog the pipeline" and getting it over with.
OR. The launch game isn't ready, and they rushed these out like MG.
I think it's more likely that they were disappointed by the lackluster response that RAZA has been given, so now they are trying to downplay its importance and emphasize something else.
If RAZA had gotten a "Rick & Morty-style" response, you can be sure that they would be hyping it up.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I think the first question is: why hire Jpop in the first place? He's a polarizing individual in the community. That's pretty well known - and he already screwed over *another* company before DR. So unless DR has their head in the sand, there's a main reason to hire him: he's a well known designer, has hits from 25 years ago - and is controversial. So if you subscribe to the "Controversy Creates Cash" mindset... he's a perfect fit. Now, you hire JPop so you get the marketing blitz and the community is talking about your company left and right ("there is no such thing as bad publicity").
Ok, JPOP is on board. Now how do you calm some of the teeth gnashing and the risk of litigation (a la Predator). Weigh out whether building 500 RAZA is less expensive than a long, drawn out lawsuit (even if it's ultimately thrown out, its a lot of money and time to waste on something that's not making games). So in this case - maybe that's it. Making 500 games that "don't clog the pipeline" and getting it over with.
OR. The launch game isn't ready, and they rushed these out like MG.
Not to debate but Why hire Jpop? Because before WE decided to hand an artist of sorts tons of money foolishly assuming He could become a manufacturing company Most loved and continue to love virtually every title he has ever created. Good person? Don't know. But he does design some amazing game there is no question. (at least there weren't any when people were lined up to hand him cash)? NOT saying any of this is good and I do feel for those that bet on this loosing horse but he Did have a value before people lost money. As for a costly lawsuit?? They hired a designer, that does not mean they inherit his past mistakes from childhood. Deeproot is his employer not his parent. I personally still don't understand Why Deeproot would put themselves out there to Pay back with games his past mistake? My guess is to voluntarily buy Down any controversy. Flame suit on and again NOT taking sides just interesting how personal this start ups business has become because of one employee. lol
Quoted from Yelobird:As for a costly lawsuit?? They hired a designer, that does not mean they inherit his past mistakes from childhood. Deeproot is his employer not his parent. I personally still don't understand Why Deeproot would put themselves out there to Pay back with games his past mistake? My guess is to voluntarily buy Down any controversy.
Except that they didn't just hire a designer, they also bought and used his designs...designs which had been financed (some would say via fraud) by others.
So, they had to either make those "investors" happy, or risk a bunch of lawsuits down the road. The easier and (probably) cheaper way was to promise "future stuff" in return for no lawsuits.
Personally, I don't understand WHY they insisted on using JPOP's previous designs. They could have just hired him to do a new design. It's not like RAZA is so impressive an intellectual property that it was worth all the hassle.
Quoted from mbeardsley:Except that they didn't just hire a designer, they also bought and used his designs...designs which had been financed (some would say via fraud) by others.
So, they had to either make those "investors" happy, or risk a bunch of lawsuits down the road. The easier and (probably) cheaper way was to promise "future stuff" in return for no lawsuits.
Personally, I don't understand WHY they insisted on using JPOP's previous designs. They could have just hired him to do a new design. It's not like RAZA is so impressive an intellectual property that it was worth all the hassle.
Very good points I can see your view. One could also question when "investors" gave him money were they buying a Product or rights to his designs?
I liked when he talked about how each idividual company does things differently. Some things they do well and other things, not so much...
- "Like actually building a machine and bringing it to market?"
That was the followup question that was missing, right there.
Quoted from mbeardsley:Except that they didn't just hire a designer, they also bought and used his designs...designs which had been financed (some would say via fraud) by others.
So, they had to either make those "investors" happy, or risk a bunch of lawsuits down the road. The easier and (probably) cheaper way was to promise "future stuff" in return for no lawsuits.
Personally, I don't understand WHY they insisted on using JPOP's previous designs. They could have just hired him to do a new design. It's not like RAZA is so impressive an intellectual property that it was worth all the hassle.
This is my impression too -
Quoted from mbeardsley:Except that they didn't just hire a designer, they also bought and used his designs...designs which had been financed (some would say via fraud) by others.
Exactly!
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I think the first question is: why hire Jpop in the first place?
How come in three trillion posts noone never asked that question? 
The stories surrounding John at Bally are well documented. He had a lot of help finishing games he started.
The reason many of us blindly and stupidly threw money at John was because of his “creativity” and artistry which we later found out it was Zombie Yeti that produced the awesome artwork that got us excited.
AND the fact that Jpop is previous inventor and founder of Pinball FOMO! Which Spooky has now taken and perfected
Limited numbers and a reputation blinded us all to the reality
Truth is all we had to do was ask the easy numbers questions on how the F games were gonna ever get built at those prices in that scale WITH proprietary parts!!!
But hey, Deeproot rescued him and gave us a lifeline. I’m thankful for that. And I assume DR needed a name to help promote to investors?
It still doesn’t change the fact that RAZA looks like nothing special and likewise with MG and AIW, which they still can’t make playable.
It’s been a very LONG time since Jpop has had a hand in developing a great game
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I think the first question is: why hire Jpop in the first place? He's a polarizing individual in the community. That's pretty well known - and he already screwed over *another* company before DR. So unless DR has their head in the sand, there's a main reason to hire him: he's a well known designer, has hits from 25 years ago - and is controversial. So if you subscribe to the "Controversy Creates Cash" mindset... he's a perfect fit. Now, you hire JPop so you get the marketing blitz and the community is talking about your company left and right ("there is no such thing as bad publicity").
Ok, JPOP is on board. Now how do you calm some of the teeth gnashing and the risk of litigation (a la Predator). Weigh out whether building 500 RAZA is less expensive than a long, drawn out lawsuit (even if it's ultimately thrown out, its a lot of money and time to waste on something that's not making games). So in this case - maybe that's it. Making 500 games that "don't clog the pipeline" and getting it over with.
OR. The launch game isn't ready, and they rushed these out like MG.
Not sure why all the open ended questions...
RM for some reason thinks JPOP is a gem.. he just needs the right environment to succeed. You might even say he's enamored with him as much as he's fluffed JPOP over the years. He didn't NEED JPOP - he brought JPOP in knowing all the baggage he had. They knew all the problems, knew there was other talent on the street, but still opt'd to bring JPOP on... knowing he has a ton of real hard dollar baggage tied to him. RM thought JPOP was a key asset.
To the point they created a settlement offer for zidware customers (including cash layout offers) to get people to 1) drop any lawsuits against zidware (and thus clean up the air around DR's absorption of the assets) and 2) become the first faithful cheering DR on. Maybe some of this was supposed to make DR look like a White Knight in the hobby and thus garner positive customer sentiment... but I think it was 95% about getting the stink off JPOP so DR could move forward with JPOP and Zidware assets 'free and clear'.
Problem was... not everyone took the offer. The anchors on Zidware still exist to this day... now DR has to goto phase 2 still under contention, and fund Zidware's bankruptcy, and probably some of their ongoing defense of Zidware too. The opportunity to just wipe out zidware and absorb any usable stuff w/o contention is gone.. its no longer just an internal paperswap with some court filings no one would care about...
So why keep doing this? Does RM want to save JPOP THAT BAD? My guess... it's a blend of both. Trying to save JPOP -and- DR has already hitched their horse to the Zidware asset train and doesn't want to let it go (another... point of conflict with their current statements about RAZA and the launch title..)
So we know DR has done many backflips to try to free up Zidware and JPOP... all while they didn't need to... but it all seems to be part of a larger plan.
So now they say 'oh well RAZA really wasn't meant to be the launch title...' -- Then why is it the game furthest along (that we know of) and why did you even make it in the first place when by your own statements you have people that can crank out designs in weeks, and you expect to have 9 titles a year ready.
To downplay RAZA now doesn't make sense with all the investment DR has done to have it (along with the other Zidware stuff) and all their actions to date to bring it along. They could have left Zidware as a carcass and just hired JPOP as an individual. But they saw things in Zidware that at least RM wanted... and bet on that horse.
Quoted from flynnibus:To the point they created a settlement offer for zidware customers (including cash layout offers) to get people to 1) drop any lawsuits against zidware (and thus clean up the air around DR's absorption of the assets) and 2) become the first faithful cheering DR on. Maybe some of this was supposed to make DR look like a White Knight in the hobby and thus garner positive customer sentiment... but I think it was 95% about getting the stink off JPOP so DR could move forward with JPOP and Zidware assets 'free and clear'.
Problem was... not everyone took the offer. The anchors on Zidware still exist to this day.
Very good post! The only thing I would add is that I was never offered a settlement (free game) from Deeproot to drop out of the lawsuit, from what I saw only those not in the lawsuit were offered a free game.
Quoted from flynnibus:Not sure why all the open ended questions...
RM for some reason thinks JPOP is a gem.. he just needs the right environment to succeed. You might even say he's enamored with him as much as he's fluffed JPOP over the years. He didn't NEED JPOP - he brought JPOP in knowing all the baggage he had. They knew all the problems, knew there was other talent on the street, but still opt'd to bring JPOP on... knowing he has a ton of real hard dollar baggage tied to him. RM thought JPOP was a key asset.
To the point they created a settlement offer for zidware customers (including cash layout offers) to get people to 1) drop any lawsuits against zidware (and thus clean up the air around DR's absorption of the assets) and 2) become the first faithful cheering DR on. Maybe some of this was supposed to make DR look like a White Knight in the hobby and thus garner positive customer sentiment... but I think it was 95% about getting the stink off JPOP so DR could move forward with JPOP and Zidware assets 'free and clear'.
Problem was... not everyone took the offer. The anchors on Zidware still exist to this day... now DR has to goto phase 2 still under contention, and fund Zidware's bankruptcy, and probably some of their ongoing defense of Zidware too. The opportunity to just wipe out zidware and absorb any usable stuff w/o contention is gone.. its no longer just an internal paperswap with some court filings no one would care about...
So why keep doing this? Does RM want to save JPOP THAT BAD? My guess... it's a blend of both. Trying to save JPOP -and- DR has already hitched their horse to the Zidware asset train and doesn't want to let it go (another... point of conflict with their current statements about RAZA and the launch title..)
So we know DR has done many backflips to try to free up Zidware and JPOP... all while they didn't need to... but it all seems to be part of a larger plan.
So now they say 'oh well RAZA really wasn't meant to be the launch title...' -- Then why is it the game furthest along (that we know of) and why did you even make it in the first place when by your own statements you have people that can crank out designs in weeks, and you expect to have 9 titles a year ready.
To downplay RAZA now doesn't make sense with all the investment DR has done to have it (along with the other Zidware stuff) and all their actions to date to bring it along. They could have left Zidware as a carcass and just hired JPOP as an individual. But they saw things in Zidware that at least RM wanted... and bet on that horse.
It’s like you read my post and wrote it loooooonger ... 
Quoted from Concretehardt:Very good post! The only thing I would add is that I was never offered a settlement (free game) from Deeproot to drop out of the lawsuit, from what I saw only those not in the lawsuit were offered a free game.
My understanding is he tried a settlement with the group prior to the "goodwill" settlement that was offered to the other zidware buyers
Quoted from mof:Wrong. He used plenty of line breaks.
It's the wall of texts with no line breaks that are unreadable.
I'd rather read a long thoughtful post then a one sentence critique from a nitpicking troll.
mof.
Pump the brakes, it was a joke.
Quoted from flynnibus:He didn't NEED JPOP - he brought JPOP in knowing all the baggage he had.
Don't you think it's the opposite ? JPop brought RM.
People here always talk as if RM wanted to start a pinball company, went looking around for designers and thought John would be the best designer to start with and then look for other ex-wms folks.
I believe what happened is the other way around. John went looking (again) for investors. He started selling dreams, and got RM involved.
That's what John did when zidware started, he sold dreams to buyers.
Shiny mockups, promises of spectacular games, and displaying new concepts and ideas to wow new peopel.
When zidware couldn't deliver, I remember reading (probably on Johns blog) something that there were enough rich people in the world, and why couldn't pinball machines be like artworks that were worth millions..
So John went looking for investors.
First with wcbrandes, trying to get MG released.
Then he found the family that started American Pinball. Convinced them to go into pinball, that his Houdini design was amazing, ready and playable, ..
The public release wasn't well received, the playfield had issues. AP management suddenly realised what toxic history John brought, something they probably weren't completely aware off, and they quickly got rid of him - paying the price of assembling magic girl machines.
Then John just did the same again - looking for investors with a lot of money to sell his dreams.
He found RM. A pinball enthousiast with access to investment money.
John stroke his ego, probably sold him the dream of owning a pinball company even bigger than Stern.
Remember John now was not only the great designer of games that RM knew from WMS but John had also become the designer of MG that sold for 25.000.
I don't think RM initally had the dream of being CEO of a pinball company, certainly not when RM got into the pinball hobby.
He got that idea / dream from John.
Especially in RM's first reactions here it was clear he was thinking and talking like John.
Saying RM is a puppet of John probably is too much, but RM was/is very influenced / blinded by John.
Quoted from aeneas:Don't you think it's the opposite ? JPop brought RM.
People here always talk as if RM wanted to start a pinball company, went looking around for designers and thought John would be the best designer to start with and then look for other ex-wms folks.
I believe what happened is the other way around. John went looking (again) for investors. He started selling dreams, and got RM involved.
That's what John did when zidware started, he sold dreams to buyers.
Shiny mockups, promises of spectacular games, and displaying new concepts and ideas to wow new peopel.
When zidware couldn't deliver, I remember reading (probably on Johns blog) something that there were enough rich people in the world, and why couldn't pinball machines be like artworks that were worth millions..
So John went looking for investors.
First with wcbrandes, trying to get MG released.
Then he found the family that started American Pinball. Convinced them to go into pinball, that his Houdini design was amazing, ready and playable, ..
The public release wasn't well received, the playfield had issues. AP management suddenly realised what toxic history John brought, something they probably weren't completely aware off, and they quickly got rid of him - paying the price of assembling magic girl machines.
Then John just did the same again - looking for investors with a lot of money to sell his dreams.
He found RM. A pinball enthousiast with access to investment money.
John stroke his ego, probably sold him the dream of owning a pinball company even bigger than Stern.
Remember John now was not only the great designer of games that RM knew from WMS but John had also become the designer of MG that sold for 25.000.
I don't think RM initally had the dream of being CEO of a pinball company, certainly not when RM got into the pinball hobby.
He got that idea / dream from John.
Especially in RM's first reactions here it was clear he was thinking and talking like John.
Saying RM is a puppet of John probably is too much, but RM was/is very influenced / blinded by John.
Where did you get any part of this information from ?
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Where did you get any part of this information from ?
All my own opinion based on what I have read the last 10 years..
I don't have insider info and am not a pinball lawyer
Quoted from aeneas:Don't you think it's the opposite ? JPop brought RM.
People here always talk as if RM wanted to start a pinball company, went looking around for designers and thought John would be the best designer to start with and then look for other ex-wms folks.
I believe what happened is the other way around. John went looking (again) for investors. He started selling dreams, and got RM involved.
Well, neither side has laid out precisely how it happened.. but based on the tellings RM has shared so far, I still think it was RM initiated. He's talked at length about his admiration of his work, and talking about JPOP deserving another chance in the 'right environment'.
Quoted from aeneas:So John went looking for investors.
First with wcbrandes, trying to get MG released.
I don't think that was a sell... I think that was a buy... bill trying to swoop in and make it happen.
Quoted from aeneas:Then he found the family that started American Pinball. Convinced them to go into pinball, that his Houdini design was amazing, ready and playable, ..
The public release wasn't well received, the playfield had issues. AP management suddenly realised what toxic history John brought, something they probably weren't completely aware off, and they quickly got rid of him - paying the price of assembling magic girl machines.
While I believe JPOP got AP into the idea in his seeking partners... I think it's clear AP went beyond the JPOP abort on their own accord. With the Houdini playfield reveal flop - they could have just stopped right there and backed out. Instead, they went out and got Balcer in secret and tried to do it 'right'. I'd wager they felt duped by JPOP, and I bet you could credit him for planting the seed with the family, but they quickly moved past him and pressed forward.
Quoted from aeneas:Then John just did the same again - looking for investors with a lot of money to sell his dreams.
He found RM. A pinball enthousiast with access to investment money.
John stroke his ego, probably sold him the dream of owning a pinball company even bigger than Stern.
Remember John now was not only the great designer of games that RM knew from WMS but John had also become the designer of MG that sold for 25.000.
I don't think RM initally had the dream of being CEO of a pinball company, certainly not when RM got into the pinball hobby.
He got that idea / dream from John.
And what is any of this retelling based on?
RM isn't stupid enough to be a JPOP puppet. Certainly not after how public all the zidware trainwrecks were up to that point. RM is smart enough to have done his research in all those things, and grill JPOP for the truths behind them.
Right from the start RM acknowledged that JPOP was damaged goods and would just be an 'asset' and not really a leader. That's not how you paint someone who is swooning you or sold you on stuff.
I think RM saw JPOP as having some magic that he could twist into demand for his goods. He was carrying what looked like a pre-baked sales backlog, and was a 'theme' upon himself. His style would sell games.
I don't buy for one second that JPOP swooned RM into starting a pinball company. That gives too much credit to JPOP.. and not enough to RM.
I'm just making a wild assumption here, but I think the real reason Robert took a shining to jpop was that he could basically use him as a slave. There was nothing jpop could do about it because of the situation he got himself into.
Quoted from stantman:Why would anybody interview this guy or care what he says? Do you actually believe any of it?
You obviously, or what are you doing here?
Quoted from aeneas:Don't you think it's the opposite ? JPop brought RM.
People here always talk as if RM wanted to start a pinball company, went looking around for designers and thought John would be the best designer to start with and then look for other ex-wms folks.
I believe what happened is the other way around. John went looking (again) for investors. He started selling dreams, and got RM involved.
That's what John did when zidware started, he sold dreams to buyers.
Shiny mockups, promises of spectacular games, and displaying new concepts and ideas to wow new peopel.
When zidware couldn't deliver, I remember reading (probably on Johns blog) something that there were enough rich people in the world, and why couldn't pinball machines be like artworks that were worth millions..
So John went looking for investors.
First with wcbrandes, trying to get MG released.
Then he found the family that started American Pinball. Convinced them to go into pinball, that his Houdini design was amazing, ready and playable, ..
The public release wasn't well received, the playfield had issues. AP management suddenly realised what toxic history John brought, something they probably weren't completely aware off, and they quickly got rid of him - paying the price of assembling magic girl machines.
Then John just did the same again - looking for investors with a lot of money to sell his dreams.
He found RM. A pinball enthousiast with access to investment money.
John stroke his ego, probably sold him the dream of owning a pinball company even bigger than Stern.
Remember John now was not only the great designer of games that RM knew from WMS but John had also become the designer of MG that sold for 25.000.
I don't think RM initally had the dream of being CEO of a pinball company, certainly not when RM got into the pinball hobby.
He got that idea / dream from John.
Especially in RM's first reactions here it was clear he was thinking and talking like John.
Saying RM is a puppet of John probably is too much, but RM was/is very influenced / blinded by John.
Reason, and based on the statments (that so many are ignorant of) for a change!
That's not so common for this thread Lol
Quoted from flynnibus:Right from the start RM acknowledged that JPOP was damaged goods and would just be an 'asset' and not really a leader.
Not completely true.
Just like the overwhelming majority of what gets posted in this thread.
Working on a couple things for TWIP next week, one about COVID and one as a follow up to the Kaneda interview with deeproot.
For deeproot/Robert, how about an AMA reddit style? AMA = Ask Me (HIM) Anything
Post here or PM me your questions or email me at [email protected]
You guys do the interview! What could go wrong?
Get them to me by tomorrow at 7PM Eastern!
- Jeff
Quoted from DS_Nadine:You obviously, or what are you doing here?
I thought I was coming here to find out what/when Deeproot was releasing games, not to hear repeated backpedaling and more statements that make no sense. The hope this community has is amazing. Any positive word from Robert, Barry, Jpop, Kevin, Andrew and everything's rosy again... until the hammer drops.
Quoted from iceman44:You can have a "Game Plan" all day long
I had one for a few months, but we all know how they ended up.
Quoted from o-din:I had one for a few months, but we all know how they ended up.
https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2436
Hmmm, Game Plan the manufacturer of Super Nova from 1980!
A Deeproot remake?
Quoted from pin2d:Working on a couple things for TWIP next week, one about COVID and one as a follow up to the Kaneda interview with deeproot.
For deeproot/Robert, how about an AMA reddit style? AMA = Ask Me (HIM) Anything
Post here or PM me your questions or email me at [email protected]
You guys do the interview! What could go wrong?
Get them to me by tomorrow at 7PM Eastern!
- Jeff
I would love to know when RAZA is going to be released and what other pins are supposed to be coming out.
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