(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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#8101 62 days ago
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#8102 62 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

No. They've made it this far. A little farther won't hurt.
I don't wish anything bad for anybody or any manufacturer in these trying times.
LTG : )

Well said Lloyd. Why would anyone not root for success especially now?

I suspect they will do fine as soon as they launch. Just need to slow the cash burn and at least get to cash flow neutral

#8103 62 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I look forward to when They are ready to launch then the primary group of haters can move on to new speculation. Postponing the unveil is just business 101. Not great but a rather simple decision. You only get to launch a product or products once. At Best 10% of the market would even consider a large scale pin purchase. Why throw a party nobody can nor has interest in attending at this time? Don’t see Stern CGC, JJP, running to release a new title. Sadly AP thought they jumped the line and I fear lost launching early. JJP unveiling the amazing POTC a year prematurely didn’t exactly help sales. Killed them actually. So much hate and speculation for this company it’s just odd? They will unveil games, when they decide its the right time. Everyone claims Robert is a liar or a showmen yet all of the speculation about money etc are cookies he threw the crowd. We shall see but my guess is this company will grow faster then most suspect.

R&M did come out before AP game.

#8104 62 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

R&M did come out before AP game.

Absolutely, with a rock solid theme and a proven track record following. Plus there was no world fears and they had a genius sell all up front with deposit strategy which by unpredictable timing was a home run decision based on where we are today. Won’t speculate but my guess is if they unveiled the same strategy Today the result would likely be different.

25
#8105 62 days ago

There’s some irrational optimism going on here.

About a year ago at least one person said that starting up a company like this when we were clearly on the tail end of the longest bull run in history might not have been the best idea. We all knew the economy was going to tank at some point, Covid was just a massive accelerant.

Now that the economy has tanked, there’s two worries I have in general about pinball, neither has anything to do with deeproot but both may substantially impact their prospects.

The first is about NIB home buyers. There is an unknown period ahead before the economy picks back up and people feel confident enough to buy luxury items like pinball machines. That could be 1-2 years.. or more. It sure as hell won’t be June.

Second is about operators. I’m a small operator, or I was until the shit hit the fan. My pins aren’t earning, haven’t been earning, and won’t be earning for months. But think about this - how many people are going to want to play pins in public post-covid? How long is that going to take for the germophobia to wear off? It sure as hell won’t be June.

#8106 62 days ago
Quoted from Brijam:

There’s some irrational optimism going on here.
About a year ago at least one person said that starting up a company like this when we were clearly on the tail end of the longest bull run in history might not have been the best idea. We all knew the economy was going to tank at some point, Covid was just a massive accelerant.
Now that the economy has tanked, there’s two worries I have in general about pinball, neither has anything to do with deeproot but both may substantially impact their prospects.
The first is about NIB home buyers. There is an unknown period ahead before the economy picks back up and people feel confident enough to buy luxury items like pinball machines. That could be 1-2 years.. or more. It sure as hell won’t be June.
Second is about operators. I’m a small operator, or I was until the shit hit the fan. My pins aren’t earning, haven’t been earning, and won’t be earning for months. But think about this - how many people are going to want to play pins in public post-covid? How long is that going to take for the germophobia to wear off? It sure as hell won’t be June.

I paid a 50% deposit for a NIB game back in late January (before this COVID-19 stuff was news). The game is due to land (off the ship) in a few weeks. I want to ensure my distributor remains viable/in business, so I will honour the purchase, unless they tell me that they are about to fold and then I'll shift that deposit money towards something they have in stock (new or secondhand). Worst case, I lose the 50% deposit.

#8107 62 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Absolutely, with a rock solid theme and a proven track record following. Plus there was no world fears and they had a genius sell all up front with deposit strategy which by unpredictable timing was a home run decision based on where we are today. Won’t speculate but my guess is if they unveiled the same strategy Today the result would likely be different.

Lets not sugar coat it here, you are understandably cheerleading this company because you stand to make money off their machines by making mods. The rest of us take the inflammatory statements Robert has made over the last two years as a sign of the poor character the leadership of this company has. Taking cheap shots at the competition, when you have not produced a single game, is not endearing to the community as a whole. Robert has thoroughly earned the reaction he gets around here. Remember the legal threat against Ben Heck for an absolutely inane comment?

#8108 62 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

The rest of us take the inflammatory statements Robert has made over the last two years as a sign of the poor character the leadership of this company has.

You probably shouldn’t speak for everybody else. I see statements coming from deeproot as a sign of being enthusiastic. This is a good thing. Pinball is in need of some innovation. There are plenty of disturbing statements being made these days - those from deeproot are not among them.

#8109 62 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well said Lloyd. Why would anyone not root for success especially now?
I suspect they will do fine as soon as they launch. Just need to slow the cash burn and at least get to cash flow neutral

I don't think anybody is not rooting for them .....
Just being realistic about the possibles of what the future may hold for them going forward in the post virus world of a recession/depression

#8110 62 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Lets not sugar coat it here, you are understandably cheerleading this company because you stand to make money off their machines by making mods. The rest of us take the inflammatory statements Robert has made over the last two years as a sign of the poor character the leadership of this company has. Taking cheap shots at the competition, when you have not produced a single game, is not endearing to the community as a whole. Robert has thoroughly earned the reaction he gets around here. Remember the legal threat against Ben Heck for an absolutely inane comment?

I’m “cheerleading” for a company that has given me no reason to hate them for any reason. To my knowledge I haven’t made a single mod or part for their games. If I was buying time or stakes in Robert maybe I would feel bothered by his statements but I’m looking to buy a pinball machine personally. For whatever reason dare I say it Robert wanted to be the Kanada of owners. Some love the viral competitive direction, some don’t? While I don’t Love the Pt Barnum marketing method he chose it sounds more confident then him coming out saying “we can only hope to be as amazing as Stern (other) because they are close to perfect”. Please don’t Assume my interest in supporting a new pinball offering New options as you would be wrong. I will judge their failure If/After they fail personally.

#8111 62 days ago

I hope they are successful. Nothing would make me happier than a new (good) pinball company here in Texas. Having the Zidware folks be made whole would be great also. Another competitor to help hold down prices would be a boon as well.

That said, they have not impressed me with what they have done or said so far. They've made lots of bold promises, and delivered lots of missed deadlines, and shown a "not-so-impressive" RAZA.

I hope they will surprise us, but I doubt it.

#8112 62 days ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Cause they didn’t and it was??
I lost $9500 to Zidware and Robert offered me compensation of 2 machines if/when they make them. I don’t give a shit otherwise. I asked nothing from DeepRoot and was offered something I had written off as a bad decision. I can wait and see. Yeah, it could become divine intervention or not.

Yes, I understand that and gave you a thumbs up. But my comment had nothing to do with the Zidware compensation.
You either missed my point or I failed to express myself adequately, or maybe a little of both.

All good my friend. I hope Deeproot delivers for everyone as I have been saying all long.

#8113 62 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Yes, I understand that and gave you a thumbs up. But my comment had nothing to do with the Zidware compensation.
You either missed my point or I failed to express myself adequately, or maybe a little of both.
All good my friend. I hope Deeproot delivers for everyone as I have been saying all long.

It was probably me missing the point! That wouldn't be the first time.
I agree that DR has, so far, not produced (or at least revealed) anything with industry changing effect. There has been much alluded to and great expectation that hasn't come to pass. Perhaps the vault was going to be opened at TPF. We still don't seem to know.

#8114 62 days ago
Quoted from Brijam:

About a year ago at least one person said that starting up a company like this when we were clearly on the tail end of the longest bull run in history might not have been the best idea.

I believe that was me. I'm not rooting for failure, just dealing with the facts.

#8115 62 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I don't think anybody is not rooting for them .....
Just being realistic about the possibles of what the future may hold for them going forward in the post virus world of a recession/depression

The reality is that post virus "recession" is only a technical term, 2 quarters in a row of declining GDP growth, which will all turn around in a big way in the 3rd and 4th quarters, according to many economists and common sense.

The term "recession" means nothing in reality other than what's happening temporarily due to the virus shutdown.

You guys can believe whatever you want, doom and gloom, blah blah blah, but the economy is coming back much faster than you naysayers and experts think.

So while it's not going to be a convenient process for anybody, it sucks, but looking forward all pinball will bounce right back too, including location pinball.

#8116 62 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You guys can believe whatever you want, doom and gloom, blah blah blah, but the economy is coming back much faster than you naysayers and experts think.

It took almost a year for the economy to recover when the SARS virus hit, and this seems way worse. I don't ever remember a virus being so bad it required people to stay home to prevent the spread. Define "much faster"

#8117 62 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

It took almost a year for the economy to recover when the SARS virus hit, and this seems way worse. I don't ever remember a virus being so bad it required people to stay home to prevent the spread. Define "much faster"

I don't agree obviously because we were coming off of the back end of the dot.com bubble bursting and SARS really had nothing to do with it.

Goldman Sachs, the most negative outlook on Wall Street, is predicting a 19% increase in GDP in the 3rd quarter, which would mark "the fastest recovery in history" and not making a prediction for the 4th, which should be even better, after a horrible 2nd quarter coming up. That's beginning in July.

Everything is still in place on the positive side 1) Tax policy 2) Fed policy 3) Fiscal policy 4) Trade policy etc.

#8118 62 days ago

I'm glad to see you are still the pillar of optimism Iceman.

How long can most companies survive after being shut down for a few months?

How long can most people survive and not find themselves out on the street without their normal income for a few months?

#8119 62 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm glad to see you are still the pillar of optimism Iceman.
How long can most companies survive after being shut down for a few months?
How long can most people survive and not find themselves out on the street without their normal income for a few months?

I just hope Ice has some strategic booze reserves. I’m starved for entertainment

#8120 62 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm glad to see you are still the pillar of optimism Iceman.
How long can most companies survive after being shut down for a few months?
How long can most people survive and not find themselves out on the street without their normal income for a few months?

Well its called the $2 trillion bailout and unemployment package that was just passed. Some will get paid MORE on unemployment than they made working for the next 4 months. Just a fact. No hourly employee who gets laid off is missing a paycheck. Not to mention the helicopter money handout coming as well for millions of qualifiers.

Companies are receiving grants and loans to survive as part of that $2 trillion, to keep employees working, to get through this temporary government induced shutdown.

We can argue all day over whether or not its the right thing to do or not, and i believe it's NOT, but it is what it is until the end of April.

The people modeling this thing are basing it on the data from New York, New Jersey and Italy, as if the rest of the world will be on the same scale, which is ridiculous on given the demographics and population density.

Based on the model presented TODAY, we are currently at 3700 US deaths, 42,000 worldwide and their "shelter in place model" is predicting a death toll range of 100k-200k by the end of May.

Even a non-math major can figure out that would be going from 3700 total to 50k deaths each of the next two months. They had a difficult time answering that question and blamed on modeling data.

This is all setting up for an early May "back to work" mantra because the government did such a fantastic job of keeping the death count so far below 100k, so they will say, the curve flattens and decreases and it's simply time to go back.

This will end up being like the 1987 selloff and v shaped recovery.

It will be time soon for PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and not Government control. 1). Sick? stay at home. 2). At risk, take precautions and/or stay at home 3) Social distancing and wash your hands.

#8121 62 days ago

For some factual perspective, go to the link and the main site, scroll down to the "Health" numbers

Look at where China and South Korea are at now. We are handling it much better.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

HEALTH
3,229,136 Communicable disease deaths this year
120,935 Seasonal flu deaths this year
1,890,724. Deaths of children under 5 this year
10,572,792. Abortions this year
76,884. Deaths of mothers during birth this year
41,678,536. HIV/AIDS infected people
418,156. Deaths caused by HIV/AIDS this year
2,042,923. Deaths caused by cancer this year
243,990. Deaths caused by malaria this year
12,799,595,043. Cigarettes smoked today
1,243,484. Deaths caused by smoking this year
622,134. Deaths caused by alcohol this year
266,741. Suicides this year
$ 99,510,119,398. Money spent on illegal drugs this year
335,780. Road traffic accident fatalities this year

#8122 62 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Some will get paid MORE on unemployment than they made working for the next 4 months. Just a fact.

It will do good for me, but what about all my neighbors with house payments?

Oh that's right, people in the USA don't have debt or live check to check.

#8123 62 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

It will do good for me, but what about all my neighbors with house payments?
Oh that's right, people in the USA don't have debt or live check to check.

How were they making house payments before? A job? Did they lose their job? Unemployment, helicopter money and forbearance.

There will also be "forbearance" measures implemented as well by the banks and mortgage companies. NOBODY is getting kicked out of their homes due to this government induced shut down.

Sorry Odin but the doomsday scenario isn't happening. The shutdown will have to end soon or there won't be a government left to dole out handouts in the future.

#8124 62 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

How were they making house payments before? A job? Did they lose their job?

With their cush $80,000 and up salaries. It also helps pay their kid's college and their fancy Lexus's and the second mortgages, and all that good stuff.

Unemployment stimulus from Uncle Sam is $600 a week. And yes, in case you haven't heard a lot of people are not working anytime soon.

Also all these businesses not making money now taking out loans from Uncle Sam will have to find a way to pay it back on top of getting their businesses back on there feet. At least those that will try.

One thing is definitely a given. Landlords are still going to do whatever it takes to get their money too.

#8125 62 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

This is all setting up for an early May "back to work" mantra because the government did such a fantastic job of keeping the death count so far below 100k, the curve flattens and decreases and its simply time to go back.

Are you crazy or being sarcastic? The government did a TERRIBLE job. We saw how the virus spread across europe for months, and they played it off like this was no big deal, it's just the flu, no way that's going to affect us or come over here (yet they didn't shut down international travel until it was too late). Currently we are at more than twice the cases of china, more deaths already than China (with 1/4 the population). Hell, I bet new york state alone surpasses the number of cases of China by tomorrow:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

#8126 62 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

With their cush $80,000 and up salaries. It also helps pay their kid's college and their fancy Lexus's and the second mortgages, and all that good stuff.
Unemployment stimulus from Uncle Sam is $600 a week. And yes, in case you haven't heard a lot of people are not working anytime soon.
Also all these businesses not making money now taking out loans from Uncle Sam will have to find a way to pay it back on top of getting their businesses back on there feet. At least those that will try.

Small business won't have to pay the loans back if they keep their employees hired.

I agree, some people will stay unemployed rather than go back to work, a 4 month paid vacation.

If you are talking about the "upper class" folks losing their jobs with big houses, second mortgages, a lexus and kid's college then if they don't have some savings in place then they are idiots but i'd say hang around and wait for the rebound. They aren't losing either house and the kids can now get student loans to eventually get wiped out for FREE.

#8127 62 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Are you crazy or being sarcastic? The government did a TERRIBLE job. We saw how the virus spread across europe for months, and they played it off like this was no big deal, it's just the flu, no way that's going to affect us or come over here (yet they didn't shut down international travel until it was too late). Currently we are at more than twice the cases of china, more deaths already than China (with 1/4 the population). Hell, I bet new york state alone surpasses the number of cases of China by tomorrow:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

China is under reporting.

South korea is doing really good

#8128 62 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

China is under reporting.

You could say the same for us.

#8129 62 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Are you crazy or being sarcastic? The government did a TERRIBLE job. We saw how the virus spread across europe for months, and they played it off like this was no big deal, it's just the flu, no way that's going to affect us or come over here (yet they didn't shut down international travel until it was too late). Currently we are at more than twice the cases of china, more deaths already than China (with 1/4 the population). Hell, I bet new york state alone surpasses the number of cases of China by tomorrow:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

First of all, its a testing issue with the comparison of the US and China. The government, as they say it, stopped up to 2.2 million deaths, according to the health expert projections, by stopping implementing xenophobic policy of shutting down the inflow of people from the country from China in January. Now they say that by executing the "shelter in" strategy, the max death toll will be 100k-200k.

The US is over reporting now. Anyone that dies of any type of death that had the virus at death is counted as a coronavirus victim. Also misleading stats.

The REALITY is that it won't even come close to those numbers!

The entire world of 7.8 Billion people for the past several months has 42,000 deaths. Do the math.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

#8130 62 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I agree, some people will stay unemployed rather than go back to work, a 4 month paid vacation.

It's too late to stop the snowball effect now.

This open everything back up end of April is about as realistic as opening back up at Easter, or just being shut down for two weeks. As long as hospitals are full and healthcare workers are struggling, it will be just as it is now. End of April will be here so fast, they will be talking end of May soon.

-10
#8131 62 days ago

The Federal, State and Local governments are doing their best to destroy the economy in the process.

This is what you get when you let scientists and health officials run the country, along with the media.

Where were they screaming at the top of their lungs when it started in China? Nowhere, because as Dr. Birks said today they thought it was more of an isolated event in China like SARS was.

A bunch of BS excuses. At ALL levels of government.

-13
#8132 62 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

It's too late to stop the snowball effect now.
This open everything back up end of April is about as realistic as opening back up at Easter, or just being shut down for two weeks. As long as hospitals are full and healthcare workers are struggling, it will be just as it is now. End of April will be here so fast, they will be talking end of May soon.

Wrong. Look at the facts and data. Can't have it both ways. And it's not what the charts showed today per your revered health experts. Peaking in 2 weeks and then downward. Can't save everybody, time for some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY the Sweden way.

Can't whine about no jobs, no economy and keep everything shut down. It's coming one way or the other, doom and gloomers!

#8133 62 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And it's not what the charts showed today per your revered health experts.

They are not mine, but last I checked, they are talking 100,000 to 200,000 dead in the USA alone doing just what we are doing now. We aren't even close to that yet.

-2
#8134 62 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

They are not mine, but last I checked, they are talking 100,000 to 200,000 dead in the USA alone doing just what we are doing now. We aren't even close to that yet.

And we will NEVER get close! That's my point! 100k is not even reality. Even Fauci and Birks walked it back. The government talking heads everywhere will scream victory at the end of April claiming they did a phenomenal job because the death toll didn't hit 25K. Currently 1,550 deaths in ground central New York. All i used to hear was 500k deaths minimum. Based on what?

The models are a BS guess based on worst case.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-its-so-freaking-hard-to-make-a-good-covid-19-model/

The misleading insufficient data is confusing and scaring people along with the media. A new study puts the death rate at .66% and going down if you include all cases.

#8135 62 days ago

As for Deeproot, they should have plenty of cash to weather the storm.

Back to the topic, sorry to get it off track

#8136 61 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The government, as they say it, stopped up to 2.2 million deaths, according to the health expert projections, by stopping implementing xenophobic policy of shutting down the inflow of people from the country from China in January.

I’d be howling with laughter if we weren’t talking about people dying. You have an impressive way of distorting reality.

This administration should have stepped in and made the massive sacrifices months ago, but instead played the blame game and ignored once again the advice of experts. Hundreds of thousands will die because of it.

We knew since JANUARY that this was going to be big. We did fuck all until March, and we’re still doing half-measures.

None of us have any idea how many people will die. The current number is 250,000, two days ago it was 100,000. You can cite all the people dying from other things, but that doesn’t discount the reality that in just a few weeks we’re going to to lose a quarter of a million human lives.

You can cite all the positive spin you want, but the number of actual dead is very likely less than it is right now, because for example, many doctors don’t have time to test dead people for Covid, so they do not get added in.

You also cite bankers and stock market traders predicting 20% growth in Q3, pardon me if I don’t believe those completely out of touch clowns whose job it is to protect their and their client’s investments. You and I both know the economy has been teetering for a long time on the tail end of the biggest bull run in history. The Coronavirus just made it happen faster. Buckle up, this ain’t gonna be over in Q3.

#8137 61 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

As for Deeproot, they should have plenty of cash to weather the storm.
Back to the topic, sorry to get it off track

Based on what? 750k/month payroll * 24 months + leasing two buildings + whatever was invested in equipment and tooling = a lot less than 30mm in the bank.

#8138 61 days ago

From 17 days ago. Now that we are nearing ten times that amount, I will not confront Iceman or fuel his fire, but will wait and see.

Quoted from iceman44:

And yet only 5400 worldwide deaths.
Like i said people, take a freaking MATH class, and I know the media needs one

#8139 61 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

From 17 days ago. Now that we are nearing ten times that amount, I will not confront Iceman or fuel his fire, but will wait and see.

Yeah, he’s in deep denial.

14
#8140 61 days ago

WTF just happened to this thread? And here I tuned in for some Deeproot updates.

40
#8141 61 days ago

Folks, please direct all conronavirus discussions here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-coronavirus-containment-thread

Further discussions here will result in thread ejects.

#8142 61 days ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Folks, please direct all conronavirus discussions here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-coronavirus-containment-thread
Further discussions here will result in thread ejects.

You read my mind

12
#8143 61 days ago

I seen 22 new posts and thought Deep Root had released some info. Then when I started reading I forgot that I was even in the Deep Root thread.

It was pretty entertaining for a minute though.

#8144 61 days ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

I seen 22 new posts and thought Deep Root had released some info. Then when I started reading I forgot that I was even in the Deep Root thread.
It was pretty entertaining for a minute though.

I thought for a moment about making a new topic, stating Deeproot had launched with 3 new titles, but I changed my mind for it wouldn't have been a nice April fools joke (I wouldn't like it if I was an employee of Deeproot). Besides I don't think people would fall for it?

#8149 61 days ago

Thanks for offering some actual information.

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