Biscarrosse
Quoted from spfxted:Dennis has a very good Bullshit-o-meter......
If he had, why did he accept to work for them? Did it not already smell bad from the start?
when you build on bad foundations, it always ends up to fall.
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Danville, CA
Did anyone else prepay for airplane tickets to Texas Pinball Fest, thru Deeproot's offer to Zidware's customers?
They said they would reimburse us... anyone get any reimbursement or notice?
Quoted from colonel_caverne:If he had, why did he accept to work for them? Did it not already smell bad from the start?
A paycheck.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Anybody take bets on what date Deeproot announces they are closing shop for good?
No. They've made it this far. A little farther won't hurt.
I don't wish anything bad for anybody or any manufacturer in these trying times.
LTG : )
Unknown
Quoted from Yelobird:Nobody of right mind is looking to buy any new pins in this economy forecast
This might be true for some/a lot of people, but not for everyone. I think with the extra amount of money over the world pumped in the economy you might see inflation, so your money will be worth less. Besides: sitting at home a long time...good time to buy a new game. I've never bought nib before, but am considering it more lately (though I need to make room first)
Düsseldorf
Quoted from LTG:No. They've made it this far. A little farther won't hurt.
I don't wish anything bad for anybody or any manufacturer in these trying times.
LTG : )
It's definately a shitty situation wanting to set up an working assembly line including workers, while at the same time are not able to give them work or generate income to pay them. :-/
The relief fund's I know of (far far away) are only valid for people/ companys that are actually around for a bit and have proven that their business model is valid; Deeproot pinball is still a Startup, I' not too sure they'd get anything. :-/
Let's hope the best.
Quoted from colonel_caverne:If he had, why did he accept to work for them? Did it not already smell bad from the start?
when you build on bad foundations, it always ends up to fall.
I've seen this a bunch of times.
Deep Root was hiring people off the street. The fact that they took a paycheck in no way means they have some kind of undying faith in the project.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Anybody take bets on what date Deeproot announces they are closing shop for good? I say May 1st
Deeproot is really not ever going to make or sell any games. It’s a money laundering business for Marty Byrd.
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Deeproot is really not ever going to make or sell any games. It’s a money laundering business for Marty Byrd.
I don't know if it was really true or not, but I heard that back in the day, lots of arcades were actually used for money laundering since it was such a cash business with no way to disprove any claims.
"Yes, Mr. Government Auditor, that Asteroids machine generated 4.3 million in cash last year. No, I don't have receipts for what I took in - it was all in quarters, but here are my bank deposit slips showing the totals."
Quoted from Yelobird:. Nobody of right mind is looking to buy any new pins in this economy forecast and unveiling their work at this time would do nothing positive for business..
I did a sale before a buying (I added money)
And it is highly possible I make a trade.
Don’t know if i lost my mind or contracted the virus
Quoted from colonel_caverne:I did a sale before a buying (I added money)
And it is highly possible I make a trade.
Don’t know if i lost my mind or contracted the virus
Ok maybe I worded that wrong for some. The Majority at this time will more then likely be safe guarding cash reserves from hobby pleasure toys toward the well being of their family and home. Releasing a new product line in a factory not allowed to have employees would further be a poor time to announce new products. Congrats to you if you or your situation is different but I suspect the majority are thinking beyond the next pinball purchase.
Quoted from Yelobird:Ok maybe I worded that wrong for some. The Majority at this time will more then likely be safe guarding cash reserves from hobby pleasure toys toward the well being of their family and home. Releasing a new product line in a factory not allowed to have employees would further be a poor time to announce new products. Congrats to you if you or your situation is different but I suspect the majority are thinking beyond the next pinball purchase.
Well I didn’t buy any pin since a long time (2 years). In fact nothing was interesting me until this JP and this opportunity to buy a LE. I could have bought a deeproot game but evidently two years is not enough to release a game.
However My situation is not more comfortable than anyone else, just hope people are safe and the situation is getting better soon...but I also know life can sometimes hang by a thread
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Deeproot is really not ever going to make or sell any games. It’s a money laundering business for Marty Byrd.
You trying to ruin season 3? It starts tomorrow.
Quoted from LTG:No. They've made it this far. A little farther won't hurt.
I don't wish anything bad for anybody or any manufacturer in these trying times.
LTG : )
And good luck to you Lloyd my friend. It is the tough of times for many.
Happy Birthday To you.
Deeproot will still pull it off. They will release games that will be great. Unfortunately, sales will be slower than expected, but most product-based businesses are going to experience that. I wish them the best during this tough time and very unfortunate bad luck for them. I wish they would at least release RAZA via stream. I think they'd be surprized at how many pinheads would still buy.
Quoted from mbeardsley:No, they won't say that. It will be something like...
"In light of recent events, the Deeproot team has been forced to delay our many amazing product releases indefinitely."
They will then quietly lay everyone off, and we will never hear about them again (except for mentions in various court proceedings).
I hope that I am wrong, however.
This is the perfect Storm and out DP had been waiting for to explain to the investors why it didn’t work. That word: “indefinitely” is pretty strong.
Quoted from mbeardsley:No, they won't say that. It will be something like...
"In light of recent events, the Deeproot team has been forced to delay our many amazing product releases indefinitely."
They will then quietly lay everyone off, and we will never hear about them again (except for mentions in various court proceedings).
I hope that I am wrong, however.
Lay-off has already begun with Dennis...
Quoted from jimwe5t:Lay-off has already begun with Dennis...
Have you spoken to Dennis? Maybe you have some real information to share instead of Pinside trolling.
Edmonton, AB
Quoted from jimwe5t:Lay-off has already begun with Dennis
Deeproot like all other companies are/will be laying off people... trying times
No skin in this game still didn't see this company ask for one penny upfront from the public .
If they produce games I would love to see what comes out of their doors?
Quoted from transprtr4u:Deeproot like all other companies are/will be laying off people... trying times
No skin in this game still didn't see this company ask for one penny upfront from the public .
If they produce games I would love to see what comes out of their doors?
Well... since deeproot wasnt selling anything... and already had plans to keep people working... the shutdown doesnt hurt them nearly as bad as companies expecting to live off actual sales every month 
Quoted from pinlink:A paycheck.
Bingo! .....and I'm sure, a good one....
Why do people keep talking about Deeproot not taking pre-order money, as if its some divine sign of things to come? It's an irrelevant suggestion and yet it is the most often quoted opinion throughout this thread. Multimorphic, American Pinball, Homepin, Chicago Gaming and others are not, and have never been touted in this manner. I don't know how Haggis Pinball is doing it but I strongly suspect they will also not be pre-order.
If you want to point to Deeproot's legitimacy, the fact that they have publicly raised around $30 million from investors is where you should hang your hat. That's substantial seed money and goes a long ways if used wisely.
I would be really worried if I were Robert right now. Not just because of delays, but this Covid isn't going away soon. The government just extended social distancing until end of April, and I'm guessing each state will follow suit (and it may go longer). There's over 3 million unemployed (highest ever), the stock market is barely hanging on. If I had to guess, established companies like CGC, Stern, American Pinball, JJP are all going to take a hit with fewer orders (if any). I see stuff I want on markets, and I'm like "I'd love that, but I'm not leaving the house.. especially to go to some stranger's house I don't know". Maybe you trust a distributor to pickup a new game, but what if you need to sell a game to make room / make money, but your game isn't selling because people aren't buying?
It could be dark days for 6-12 months, and I'm not sure they have that kind of time. You could argue they are primarily an investment company, and maybe they got out before the crash and know when to re-invest at the bottom and they'll be just fine.. but maybe not.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I would be really worried if I were Robert right now. Not just because of delays, but this Covid isn't going away soon. The government just extended social distancing until end of April, and I'm guessing each state will follow suit (and it may go longer). There's over 3 million unemployed (highest ever), the stock market is barely hanging on. If I had to guess, established companies like CGC, Stern, American Pinball, JJP are all going to take a hit with fewer orders (if any). I see stuff I want on markets, and I'm like "I'd love that, but I'm not leaving the house.. especially to go to some stranger's house I don't know". Maybe you trust a distributor to pickup a new game, but what if you need to sell a game to make room / make money, but your game isn't selling because people aren't buying?
It could be dark days for 6-12 months, and I'm not sure they have that kind of time. You could argue they are primarily an investment company, and maybe they got out before the crash and know when to re-invest at the bottom and they'll be just fine.. but maybe not.
The real question for the unemployment figure is how many of those are "temporary" unemployment and how many are "permanent".
For example, my son is now "unemployed" (even though he is actually getting paid for a couple of extra weeks), as the store he works at is closed due to state restrictions. Assuming that the restrictions are ended in a month or two, he will most likely get his job right back - having collected unemployment for a few weeks. However, if the restrictions last much longer, his store may not reopen - leaving him truly unemployed.
It is unclear if the economy will "snap-back" or will go into a prolonged downward spiral. Either one is possible.
Quoted from flynnibus:Well... since deeproot wasnt selling anything... and already had plans to keep people working... the shutdown doesnt hurt them nearly as bad as companies expecting to live off actual sales every month
Or it hurts them more as they have no positive cash reserves from sales
at some point you have to sell stuff to stay in business, otherwise you are just running a charity for your employees
Didn't Robert say recently he was starting to lose interest in pinball? No way he's going to reinvigorate that interest now, especially without the team coming into the office to continue designing and keep morale high.
The best things Robert did for pinball was give a bunch of longtime pinball people jobs for a few years and pay a few people back for their RAZA purchases. His bravado and demeaning of other companies was just a bonus for those who enjoy that kind of drama.
If he really raised $30 million to fund his pinball dreams, he should have purchased American Pinball and Multimorphic to hit the ground running with a manufacturing presence and innovation. Figure a year to integrate the teams with the industry vets he already hired and two years to create new machines with the combined resources, all the while generating revenue and establishing a customer engagement presence with those companies existing products. Throw his award winning animation team on top, and maybe he could have come out with some pinball games that lived up to his predictions. I just don't see how he can do that on his own, especially now.
Quoted from NoQuarters:Maybe Deeproot should explore making ventilators.
For when shit hits the fan?
Quoted from NoQuarters:Maybe Deeproot should explore making ventilators.
Any company that already makes small assemblies or electrical devices could quickly receive electrical approval and begin making ventilators. All of them pulling together could supply unmet need for ventilators. Any company that already sews clothing, drapery or costumes could supply unmet need by switching to face masks and gowns. Any company that already makes kitchen items, does 3d printing or manufactures consumer products could supply unmet need for gloves. Instead we are talking to GM?
I think deeproot would be excellently suited for and may even up to the challenge of building ventilators. Some of today's large companies began as early suppliers of goods during the war. That may divert deeproot's attention towards bigger and better things. But if you were Robert - would you rather be remembered 1) as the guy who designed the world's finest pinball machine, which features an indestructible playfield, but whose company went bellyup in 2023, having made and sold less than 10k games or 2) as the guy who designed and built ventilators in a time of crisis and whose work saved tens of thousands of lives? 
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Or it hurts them more as they have no positive cash reserves from sales
at some point you have to sell stuff to stay in business, otherwise you are just running a charity for your employees
What you describe is exactly what he's been running... no sales revenue
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I think deeproot would be excellently suited for and may even up to the challenge of building ventilators.
Because of octo-manufacturing?
or their non-existent manufacturing history?
I'm wondering why you think they are any better suited than a guy with a paper, pencil, and an empty building.
Quoted from flynnibus:Because of octo-manufacturing?
or their non-existent manufacturing history?
I'm wondering why you think they are any better suited than a guy with a paper, pencil, and an empty building.
But why is the assumption that it's the opposite any better? How do you know they can't manufacture anything? Does anyone have concrete evidence as to where they are at financially and with manufacturing?
Quoted from Tranquilize:But why is the assumption that it's the opposite any better? How do you know they can't manufacture anything? Does anyone have concrete evidence as to where they are at financially and with manufacturing?
Uhh...it's on the person suggesting they are 'excellently suited' (that's the claim) to do it to support that claim... not for me to disprove something that doesn't yet exist.
I can't show how nothing is less suited to do something than nothing...
Quoted from Tranquilize:But why is the assumption that it's the opposite any better? How do you know they can't manufacture anything? Does anyone have concrete evidence as to where they are at financially and with manufacturing?
I‘d say, since noone here invested any money in them, it‘s none of our business. (Ok, if Zidware customers are worried that‘s understandable.)
Quoted from DS_Nadine:I‘d say, since noone here invested any money in them, it‘s none of our business.
Agreed but 95% of Pinside threads are none of our business. lol
Coronavirus unfortunately is the perfect cover for a borderline fraudulent business like Roberts. At least now when all those retiree investors get told their money is gone he can say “who could have known a pandemic was gonna happen” despite even with no pandemic they were lighting money on fire
Quoted from Richthofen:Coronavirus unfortunately is the perfect cover for a borderline fraudulent business like Roberts. At least now when all those retiree investors get told their money is gone he can say “who could have known a pandemic was gonna happen” despite even with no pandemic they were lighting money on fire
wait wait... let me beat the crowd in replying to you...
"since noone here invested any money in them, it‘s none of our business"
lol...
I’m still not sure if it’s a good idea to don’t show anything. Maybe, yes, there was nothing ready for sale... and cancelling with thinking it might never happen was the choice.
The counter created curiosity. Now there is nothing. Not even a video they used as an alternative web presentation lunch and get some sales.
There was not a lot to talk about before that, now with months of crisis ahead, this could vanished.
DR, you might need some new marketing approach and share what was the new concepts or else to keep the interest....
The virus hides a multitude of nefarious DR ponzi activity...been pretty obvious with no real product release, after years of questionable activity. Some big names have already moved on...DR closing its doors is a real possibility now. DR has the perfect out and is relieved they didn’t have to do their launch, which by their published agenda, wasn’t going to reveal much anyway. Feel for the investors on this one, as it appears they got “milked” big time.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Any company that already makes small assemblies or electrical devices could quickly receive electrical approval and begin making ventilators. All of them pulling together could supply unmet need for ventilators. Any company that already sews clothing, drapery or costumes could supply unmet need by switching to face masks and gowns. Any company that already makes kitchen items, does 3d printing or manufactures consumer products could supply unmet need for gloves. Instead we are talking to GM?
I think deeproot would be excellently suited for and may even up to the challenge of building ventilators. Some of today's large companies began as early suppliers of goods during the war. That may divert deeproot's attention towards bigger and better things. But if you were Robert - would you rather be remembered 1) as the guy who designed the world's finest pinball machine, which features an indestructible playfield, but whose company went bellyup in 2023, having made and sold less than 10k games or 2) as the guy who designed and built ventilators in a time of crisis and whose work saved tens of thousands of lives?
Wow!
A ventilator is not a vacuum cleaner. It is a precision, high compliance, life or death piece of equipment.
On top of that, what makes anyone think a company that hasn't released a basic pinball machine in 2-3 years, could possibly pump out highly complex medical ventilators, n.i.b., in 2-3 weeks (which is when they will be needed) ?
At least GM has the potential to actually produce the required product, under the time constraints.
What happens if a "borderline" case gets plugged into one of these "Deeproot Ventilators" and the Ventilator is not quite right and it kills them?
Would you stay in the lineup to be ventilated by a deeproot machine? ... or take your chances? hmmmmm
Who knows.
Quoted from Mr68:Why do people keep talking about Deeproot not taking pre-order money, as if its some divine sign of things to come? It's an irrelevant suggestion and yet it is the most often quoted opinion throughout this thread. Multimorphic, American Pinball, Homepin, Chicago Gaming and others are not, and have never been touted in this manner. I don't know how Haggis Pinball is doing it but I strongly suspect they will also not be pre-order.
If you want to point to Deeproot's legitimacy, the fact that they have publicly raised around $30 million from investors is where you should hang your hat. That's substantial seed money and goes a long ways if used wisely.
$30M if that’s truly what they raised is indeed substantial seed money. The problem is that seed dollars is expecting a $300M company in 3-5 years. Fail that and they get vivisected by their investors who force the company into liquidation to get anything they can back. It’s why lots of startups are quaking in their boots. Virus or no virus there is always a debt to be repaid and a ticking time bomb that awaits if they don’t. So $30M can be refuge for a time but eventually it’s payback or go out of business time when expectations are not met.
Quoted from pookycade:$30M if that’s truly what they raised is indeed substantial seed money. The problem is that seed dollars is expecting a $300M company in 3-5 years. Fail that and they get vivisected by their investors who force the company into liquidation to get anything they can back. It’s why lots of startups are quaking in their boots. Virus or no virus there is always a debt to be repaid and a ticking time bomb that awaits if they don’t. So $30M can be refuge for a time but eventually it’s payback or go out of business time when expectations are not met.
People keep ignoring that Robert Is the investor. His words.
Alternatively, I guess, they are suggesting he is lying.
Either way the box will probably eventually flip open.
Maybe it's just a bit like Schrödingers cat .... lol
Quoted from razorsedge:People keep ignoring that Robert Is the investor. His words.
Alternatively, I guess, they are suggesting he is lying.
Either way the box will probably eventually flip open.
Maybe it's just a bit like Schrödingers cat .... lol
But he's made some strange and contradictory claims about that. At one time he said it was "all his money" but at other times he's boasted about how much money they have raised.
Quoted from Mr68:Why do people keep talking about Deeproot not taking pre-order money, as if its some divine sign of things to come? It's an irrelevant suggestion and yet it is the most often quoted opinion throughout this thread.
Cause they didn’t and it was??
I lost $9500 to Zidware and Robert offered me compensation of 2 machines if/when they make them. I don’t give a shit otherwise. I asked nothing from DeepRoot and was offered something I had written off as a bad decision. I can wait and see. Yeah, it could become divine intervention or not.
Quoted from razorsedge:People keep ignoring that Robert Is the investor. His words.
Alternatively, I guess, they are suggesting he is lying.
Either way the box will probably eventually flip open.
Maybe it's just a bit like Schrödingers cat .... lol
Once again, all you have to do is look at the Deeproot SEC filings
As in Securities and Exchange Commission
I look forward to when They are ready to launch then the primary group of haters can move on to new speculation. Postponing the unveil is just business 101. Not great but a rather simple decision. You only get to launch a product or products once. At Best 10% of the market would even consider a large scale pin purchase. Why throw a party nobody can nor has interest in attending at this time? Don’t see Stern CGC, JJP, running to release a new title. Sadly AP thought they jumped the line and I fear lost launching early. JJP unveiling the amazing POTC a year prematurely didn’t exactly help sales. Killed them actually. So much hate and speculation for this company it’s just odd? They will unveil games, when they decide its the right time. Everyone claims Robert is a liar or a showmen yet all of the speculation about money etc are cookies he threw the crowd. We shall see but my guess is this company will grow faster then most suspect.
Quoted from razorsedge:People keep ignoring that Robert Is the investor. His words.
Alternatively, I guess, they are suggesting he is lying.
Either way the box will probably eventually flip open.
Maybe it's just a bit like Schrödingers cat .... lol
There are filing documents posted in this very thread which show it's not his money.
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