Pittsburgh, PA
Quoted from pinlink:Flippable games? Or just more artwork of what's to come?
Both.
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
What I hope for:
The entire backbox devoted to an LCD. A massive must-have innovation such as some form of projection technology on the playfield (a 2020 version of Pinball 2000). Multiple machines revealed and at least one blockbuster licensed title.
What I expect:
RAZA, more or less as was shown to the public in November, with tighter graphics, sound and rules, and better looking toys. Available to buy in July 2020, price starting at $6k up to $10k. Concepts of other machines, but nothing playable.
I had a bit of a deeper dive into their studio it looks like they're a contract agency doing work for hire, in addition to whatever internal product development going on.
Found this: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanielolson/
This person's title is Business Development, which for people who aren't in agency-land, that means Salesperson.
From their bio on LinkedIn (you may need a LinkedIn account to see all the deets):
"deeproot Studios is a collection of 40+ expert 2D and 3D animators developing original IP and doing client work. If you need animation production services including concept art, storyboarding and screenwriting, animatics, character / prop / background design, modeling, rigging, layout, lighting, VFX, compositing, rendering, and Unity development for cinematics, cutscenes, corporate communications, television, film, and video games, please reach out."
Quoted from Brijam:What I hope for:
The entire backbox devoted to an LCD. A massive must-have innovation such as some form of projection technology on the playfield (a 2020 version of Pinball 2000). Multiple machines revealed and at least one blockbuster licensed title.
What I expect:
RAZA, more or less as was shown to the public in November, with tighter graphics, sound and rules, and better looking toys. Available to buy in July 2020, price starting at $6k up to $10k. Concepts of other machines, but nothing playable.
I'm just hoping for some Good (games) pinball machines that are fresh and well designed/built. With quality materials. ..... <points at Spooky Rick and Morty>
I don't want the wheel completely re-invented (a-la PB2000), and I'm not sure anything too radical will have alot of demand anyway, realistically.
If the entire backbox became display I for one would be much less interested. The display in that Zidaware RAZA looked the business as far as I'm concerned.
Actually, it wouldn't make much sense for Deeproot to reveal "a bunch of playable games", even if they could.
Suppose, as RM has stated, they were to reveal like 4 good complete titles with interesting layouts and innovative features.
How many of us are willing/ready to buy 4 new machines at once (or even 2)? Not many I would bet.
This means we might buy whichever of those titles personally appeals to us the most...likely passing on the other 3. Deeproot really will not have increased sales much, as their own titles will just cannibalize the sales of each other.
There is a reason Stern reveals/releases only one title at a time...and it's not because they couldn't do multiples.
Quoted from mbeardsley:Actually, it wouldn't make much sense for Deeproot to reveal "a bunch of playable games", even if they could.
Suppose, as RM has stated, they were to reveal like 4 good complete titles with interesting layouts and innovative features.
How many of us are willing/ready to buy 4 new machines at once (or even 2)? Not many I would bet.
This means we might buy whichever of those titles personally appeals to us the most...likely passing on the other 3. Deeproot really will not have increased sales much, as their own titles will just cannibalize the sales of each other.
There is a reason Stern reveals/releases only one title at a time...and it's not because they couldn't do multiples.
Indeed.
But, RM claims he will be somehow or another targeting new markets ... ie. New customers, new just to buying pinball and/or completely new to pinball.
This seems to be one of the keys to it being feasible ... being able to "unlock" vast new potential markets.
Marketing of "something" substantial will be a certainty.
I'm not certain at all that it will work out half as well as RM seems to want... but hopefully something worthwhile comes from it all! ... some good games, that are quality build and good value.
The wondering about what will be at TPF will all soon be over! ...
Quoted from mbeardsley:Actually, it wouldn't make much sense for Deeproot to reveal "a bunch of playable games", even if they could.
Suppose, as RM has stated, they were to reveal like 4 good complete titles with interesting layouts and innovative features.
How many of us are willing/ready to buy 4 new machines at once (or even 2)? Not many I would bet.
This means we might buy whichever of those titles personally appeals to us the most...likely passing on the other 3. Deeproot really will not have increased sales much, as their own titles will just cannibalize the sales of each other.
There is a reason Stern reveals/releases only one title at a time...and it's not because they couldn't do multiples.
Except if you listen to RM... that's exactly what he told us he would do. Remember, he was preaching that he would address more than just the traditional pinball market.
This is just one of many boisterous claims from deeproot that probably won't come to pass..
Quoted from flynnibus:Except if you listen to RM... that's exactly what he told us he would do. Remember, he was preaching that he would address more than just the traditional pinball market.
This is just one of many boisterous claims from deeproot that probably won't come to pass..
Yes, that was my point. He said he was going to do this...but even if it were possible (which I doubt), it doesn't make sense to do it.
Unless, of course, he has some magical way of increasing the overall pinball market (like by producing a quality machine that can be sold at a mass-market price at Walmart and Best Buy).
Quoted from mbeardsley:Yes, that was my point. He said he was going to do this...but even if it were possible (which I doubt), it doesn't make sense to do it.
Unless, of course, he has some magical way of increasing the overall pinball market (like by producing a quality machine that can be sold at a mass-market price at Walmart and Best Buy).
You are still thinking 'single track'
You're thinking 'How do I sell 4 pinball games... to a limited market at the same time'
Instead think
'How do I sell surfboards to market 1'
'How do I sell cheaper surfboards to market 2'
'How do I sell a digital surfing experience to market 3'
'How do I sell t-shirts with my surfing brand to market 4'
That was more in the line of thinking of the 'bold' thinking being pushed before. It wasn't about 'how to sell 4 stern pro games'.. It was expanding the total addressable market by coming up with different FORMS of the product.
Imagine RAZA is a full premium pinball...
and then maybe there is a RAZA 'zizzle' level game for intro markets...
and then maybe there is a RAZA digital game for PCs and mobile...
In this case you aren't cannibalizing yourself.
The assumption has been when RM boasted about having so many games available at launch that 'games' was intentionally vague. People here all assume 'game' means a full fledged stern pro/premium game. Maybe 'game' isn't.. maybe 'game' is more 'product'... and the multiple PRODUCTS he was intending were over a range of offers.
They still want a diverse lineup tho... same reason Stern wants distributors carrying inventory. If it's March 3, 2020... and a customer wants to buy a pinball game, they want to give them a set of choices they can buy from.. not just a single offer. It's not good for retail to say "we are only making Stranger Things right now... if you don't like that game, sorry, come back in 6 months'
It's all water under the bridge right now... unless he delivers the bombshell of the industry... we're gonna see a traditional pinball company.
Well, if by "several games" RM really meant a RAZA pinball machine and a RAZA board game, a RAZA coloring book, and RAZA playing cards - then okay, maybe they will be showing "several games".
I don't think that's what people were envisioning though when he said he was going to revolutionize the pinball industry.
"Pinball is easy - it's coloring books that are really hard."
Quoted from mbeardsley:I don't think that's what people were envisioning though when he said he was going to revolutionize the pinball industry.
Well that's why he was intentionally vague... to keep the speculation and interest going.
Quoted from Drewscruis:I see it now, a RAZA in the background, and then a pile of tablets running their latest virtual pinball with multiple tables....
Thats what I speculated previously, half jokingly, that the "pins" were going to be app based.
Quoted from mbeardsley:Yes, that was my point. He said he was going to do this...but even if it were possible (which I doubt), it doesn't make sense to do it.
Unless, of course, he has some magical way of increasing the overall pinball market (like by producing a quality machine that can be sold at a mass-market price at Walmart and Best Buy).
My opinion is $5000 items don't sell at Walmart or Best Buy (I agree that would be a "magical way". I'm curious how they will get non-enthusiats to buy a multiple $1,000 at any traditional outlet. Spooky doesn't advertise and sells out of new titles in days. Industry shows and traditional distributor channels are how Spooky and Stern sell their games. Deeproot will be bucking the traditional channels - I'm curious as to how.
Quoted from flynnibus:Imagine RAZA is a full premium pinball...
and then maybe there is a RAZA 'zizzle' level game for intro markets...
and then maybe there is a RAZA digital game for PCs and mobile...
This is a good point. I was hopeful that when Stern Pinball Arcade was announced that all of Sterns games going forward might be available as digital, but no such luck there. Would really like to see Deeproot go after that. And I don't mean some other game type using the theme, just a digital version of the pin. 
When I said mass-market price, I meant like $1500 or something - like the price of a good big screen TV.
No, I don't think that will happen...but if it DID, it would certainly have a chance to "revolutionize the industry".
I agree, Best Buy won't even think about stocking something at a $5K price point.
Quoted from jimwe5t:Quite an insightful post and may not be too far from the truth. Lol This scenario is quite believable given JPop past history and Robert’s tendency to run away with his mouth. Remember, this is the same JPop that stiffed Zidware customers.
Raza, if improved from the almost useable prototype shown at Houston expo, still is not going to excite new customers at a price of $8k. Who will actually spend this much money on an unlicensed theme? Haven’t we learned from APs non licensed theme’s dismal sales? Raza will be no different, nor any of DR’s other announced titles, except possibly, Alice in Wonderland. And surely they are not going to license the Disney version of that title. Licensed themes are the only ones that sell these days. Without a top tier license, toys priced at near $10k don’t sell.
DR’s so called launch is going to be interesting to say the least, to see how much they have actually done in the past numerous years of existence.
Distributors to arcade operators will be the key to DR success. Licenses are indeed king. Spooky had/has a following with home use customers such that 100's of units sell in hours or days - spooky doesn't need many distributors or marketing, or attend many shows to sell their wares. Charlie makes what themes he likes and they sell well. There is a rare, and well deserved, non-license success at Spooky. AMH and Total Nuclear Annihilation offer proof that a good game design and software plus audio, even with old DMD use or old school score displays have sold well and TNA won best game at Midwest gaming classic no less. Stern has distributors an established operator customers both foreign and domestic.
My big question is how DR plans on breaking in to the existing distributors and how their new distributions channels will look.
Quoted from dgarrett:Distributors to arcade operators will be the key to DR success. Licenses are indeed king. Spooky had/has a following with home use customers such that 100's of units sell in hours or days - spooky doesn't need many distributors or marketing, or attend many shows to sell their wares. Charlie makes what themes he likes and they sell well. There is a rare, and well deserved, non-license success at Spooky. AMH and Total Nuclear Annihilation offer proof that a good game design and software plus audio, even with old DMD use or old school score displays have sold well and TNA won best game at Midwest gaming classic no less. Stern has distributors an established operator customers both foreign and domestic.
My big question is how DR plans on breaking in to the existing distributors and how their new distributions channels will look.
Do you think going to an online distribution operation works for pinball? It certainly would allow for lots lower pricing. In essence, Spooky has that system working now to some degree.
If DR could do a simple drop ship from the factory to home would save large sums of money and should translate to much lower pricing for us the consumer. The success of Amazon is built on this premise. Cutting out all the middle men might do well in the digital age. Not that distributors don’t offer a service as well, but with the way it is now, might be the answer to lower pricing. Pinball is beginning to price itself out of the market place.
If DR were to keep with the philosophy of a “pinball in every home”, they need to keep pricing much lower than it currently is at. Doing a direct distribution model would help facilitate that goal.
Certainly the video game market is going this direction.
Quoted from jimwe5t:Do you think going to an online distribution operation works for pinball? It certainly would allow for lots lower pricing. In essence, Spooky has that system working now to some degree.
If DR could do a simple drop ship from the factory to home would save large sums of money and should translate to much lower pricing for us the consumer. The success of Amazon is built on this premise. Cutting out all the middle men might do well in the digital age. Not that distributors don’t offer a service as well, but with the way it is now, might be the answer to lower pricing. Pinball is beginning to price itself out of the market place.
If DR were to keep with the philosophy of a “pinball in every home”, they need to keep pricing much lower than it currently is at. Doing a direct distribution model would help felicitate that goal.
Certainly the video game market is going this direction.
As much as I’d love to see pins become a mass market thing, I think the post-sales support would be cost prohibitive. I could see this only with significant changes in how pins are made.
Your average person wouldn’t be able - or willing - to make simple adjustments to leaf switches, for example. Hell, many would be too intimidated to pull the glass to free a stuck ball.
As much as it makes a lot of pinheads’ skin crawl, something like the Arcade 1Up vpin is the best chance for pinball to reach mass market numbers.
Quoted from cjchand:Your average person wouldn’t be able - or willing - to make simple adjustments to leaf switches, for example. Hell, many would be too intimidated to pull the glass to free a stuck ball.
Stop making fun of me! 
Düsseldorf
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Deeproot Day is less days away then the US sales decrease percentage of corona beer due to people actually mixing it up with covid19!
corona beer (resized).jpgQuoted from DS_Nadine:The SS Billards Thread will appreciate that info!
If Deep Root can produce pins as well as you guys can count, I think we are all in for a huge fuckin' treat!
I did a bit of internet sleuthing and there seems to be like zero anything going on promoting this. This thread is as good as it gets, which is sad. This is the culmination of years and millions of dollars.
Deeprootstudios twitter (74 followers) last post was August 2019.
As much as Robert shits on Pinside, you remove this thread and there is NO ONE talking about the big launch, of a game we've already seen (that no one talks about).
Quoted from frolic:I did a bit of internet sleuthing and there seems to be like zero anything going on promoting this. This thread is as good as it gets, which is sad. This is the culmination of years and millions of dollars.
Deeprootstudios twitter (74 followers) last post was August 2019.
As much as Robert shits on Pinside, you remove this thread and there is NO ONE talking about the big launch, of a game we've already seen (that no one talks about).
They desperately need a marketing/PR guy
Quoted from frolic:I did a bit of internet sleuthing and there seems to be like zero anything going on promoting this. This thread is as good as it gets, which is sad. This is the culmination of years and millions of dollars.
Deeprootstudios twitter (74 followers) last post was August 2019.
As much as Robert shits on Pinside, you remove this thread and there is NO ONE talking about the big launch, of a game we've already seen (that no one talks about).
Do they have facebook? Maybe they're just expecting TPF to be a huge release - make a video, post it online, get the buzz going. Or maybe this is all just a big scam.
Quoted from frolic:I did a bit of internet sleuthing and there seems to be like zero anything going on promoting this. This thread is as good as it gets, which is sad. This is the culmination of years and millions of dollars.
Deeprootstudios twitter (74 followers) last post was August 2019.
As much as Robert shits on Pinside, you remove this thread and there is NO ONE talking about the big launch, of a game we've already seen (that no one talks about).
As intended.... afaik.
See if there is still "nothing" at the end of march, maybe?. That is when the observation will mean something.
How does a company keep secrets by publicising their stuff?
How does a company talk about "stuff" when their plan relies on keeping the "stuff" under wraps until the company actually launches??
Some people don't grasp the concept of patience? ... I guess that could be it Lol 
Quoted from DanDanDAN:They desperately need a marketing/PR guy
"They" are trawling pinside, gathering the scaps of the few meaninful posts. In silence. Until it is time.
Just like Gaz.
Only difference is that Gaz has no idea what DR has planned.
Lol
Fking hillarious! 
Quoted from razorsedge:As intended.... afaik.
That was the excuse given for years about jpop, or Heighway or DutchPinball or Skit-B.
As I've stated in the past, what I learned from those experiences was "if it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense". The rules of the universe (and business) apply to everyone the same.
We've seen their platform. It's "just a pinball machine". It's not going to make us lunch or be fitted with a fleshlight.
This is not the time to engineer "mind games" or pretend that you don't need anyone to pay attention. They need eyeballs and sales.
With CGC on the cusp of announcing a game or two, American Pinball announcing a new game, Jersey Jack with GNR and possibly TMNT from Stern all looking to drop around the time of of TPF this year, Deeproot sure looks to be picking a pretty bad time to try to upend the market. Imagine if they would have hit their date a year ago...pretty much nothing was competing for the spotlight last year.
Quoted from JodyG:Imagine if they would have hit their date a year ago...pretty much nothing was competing for the spotlight last year.
Remember though- "knowing exactly when we launch is a valuable trade secret that allows competitors an undesirable competitive advantage." 
Quoted from frolic:... or be fitted with a fleshlight
Any mod designers listening.... 
Quoted from frolic:I did a bit of internet sleuthing and there seems to be like zero anything going on promoting this. This thread is as good as it gets, which is sad. This is the culmination of years and millions of dollars.
Deeprootstudios twitter (74 followers) last post was August 2019.
As much as Robert shits on Pinside, you remove this thread and there is NO ONE talking about the big launch, of a game we've already seen (that no one talks about).
Sure seems like it, I requested access to the VIP event, only to get an email stating only for Media...
Hell ive been supportive , and I'm a local Tech,
Really disappointing Deeproot!
Quoted from dc2010:Sure seems like it, I requested access to the VIP event, only to get an email stating only for Media...
Hell ive been supportive , and I'm a local Tech,
Really disappointing Deeproot!
Start a 5 minute podcast on TPN...now you're media!
Quoted from JodyG:Start a 5 minute podcast on TPN...now you're media!
Nah, I have actual pinballs to work on...
Quoted from dc2010:Sure seems like it, I requested access to the VIP event, only to get an email stating only for Media...
Hell ive been supportive , and I'm a local Tech,
Really disappointing Deeproot!
Well, as a tech, they can't risk having you run to your friends at Stern and give away all of Deeproot's secrets!
Stern would take what they learned, incorporate those ideas in a new machine, re-tool their production line, and have a new machine for ready sale before the end of Deeproot's reveal event.
Or Stern would just ignore Deeproot and continue on as usual.
One or the other.
Quoted from dc2010:Sure seems like it, I requested access to the VIP event, only to get an email stating only for Media...
Hell ive been supportive , and I'm a local Tech,
Really disappointing Deeproot!
I wonder what media exactly they are expecting. This is certainly an unusual promotional approach
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I wonder what media exactly they are expecting.
That media that does that media thingy. Like reporting and stuff? Outside of pinside?
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:This is certainly an unusual promotional approach
Except, it isn't.
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