(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#7551 4 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

You have a very good point regarding time, but in this particular case time is not as big of a factor as is with a typical startup. What’s so exciting is I believe they are building everything from the ground up and have the time and financial resources to do it “right” and really change the industry in a positive way. Deeproot pinball is only one future source of revenue for the deeproot family of companies. This group currently consists of four separate companies: deeproot Studios, deeproot Tech, deeproot Capital, and deeproot Funds. Notice the last two. I do not have any first hand information about these companies but am speculating that they are more than profitable enough to support the pinball division for whatever time is needed until they become a profitable entity within the deeproot family.

Yeah the "speculating" you are doing is incorrect. Raising $35 million is gonna give you a long pinball runway.

If they can just start getting games out soon, which appears to be the case, and get cash flow positive at some point, they will have the opportunity to grow into a pinball company that can compete with Stern one day.

It takes Stern 300 or so employees to produce approx. 15k pinball machines out the door each year, and that number is growing.

Scaling up to meet demand isn't gonna be easy, ask JJP. Competition is a great thing!

#7552 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yeah the "speculating" you are doing is incorrect. Raising $35 million is gonna give you a long pinball runway.
If they can just start getting games out soon, which appears to be the case, and get cash flow positive at some point, they will have the opportunity to grow into a pinball company that can compete with Stern one day.
It takes Stern 300 or so employees to produce approx. 15k pinball machines out the door each year, and that number is growing.
Scaling up to meet demand isn't gonna be easy, ask JJP. Competition is a great thing!

Just asking...which part of my speculation is incorrect?

#7553 4 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

What is there to be cautious about right now? ... have you been asked to pay for something??
Lol
Stuck in pre-paid model land I guess.

It's pretty sad you put money exchanging hands as more significant than Your credibility or your support.

17
#7554 4 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

relentlesly whinging

Quoted from razorsedge:

those with the blinkers on.

Quoted from razorsedge:

grinding their axes and pitchforks

Quoted from razorsedge:

Grumpy people bitching about their random, barely relevant, stuff

Quoted from razorsedge:

mindless bs and negativity of "the grumpies".

Quoted from razorsedge:

Is there a pineapple stuck up your bum or something? Lol
Cheer up mate!

I find your posts lately to be really insulting and rude. I do not think they add to the discussion at all. Would you be nice to people, please? I'd like for us to be able to talk about pinball and pinball businesses without this kind of behavior going on.

#7555 4 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Just asking...which part of my speculation is incorrect?

h0B185B00 (resized).jpgh0B185B00 (resized).jpg

-17
#7556 4 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Is it in there spikey end first?
Take two asprin and a laxitive maybe, might feel better in the morning ?

Sorry butt you missed some!

#7557 4 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

I do not think they add to the discussion at all.

There is a discussion?

34!

#7558 4 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

There is a discussion?
34!

There will be...thirty three.

#7559 4 years ago

Ok so 33 days to go until Deeproot launch (of DR Studios as well as DR Pinball)... we're all focussing on pinball, which is fair enough as this is a pinball forum, but can we expect a launch of something else from the animation side? A feature-length animated film perhaps? Or a RAZA universe set animation series for example.

#7560 4 years ago
Quoted from Mercifull:

Ok so 33 days to go until Deeproot launch (of DR Studios as well as DR Pinball)... we're all focussing on pinball, which is fair enough as this is a pinball forum, but can we expect a launch of something else from the animation side? A feature-length animated film perhaps? Or a RAZA universe set animation series for example.

I fully expect to see only a slightly updated version of RAZA...and not much else (besides talk of "lots of amazing games and innovations that aren't being shown yet").

#7561 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I fully expect to see only a slightly updated version of RAZA...and not much else (besides talk of "lots of amazing games and innovations that aren't being shown yet").

I fully expect to see much more. Exciting!

#7562 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It's pretty sad you put money exchanging hands as more significant than Your credibility or your support.

It appears you would be critical of a company that claims they could build a better taco.

#7563 4 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I fully expect to see much more. Exciting!

I really hope you are correct...I would love for deeproot to have a large and lasting impact on the industry - I just don't think it will.

#7564 4 years ago
Quoted from Mercifull:

Ok so 33 days to go until Deeproot launch (of DR Studios as well as DR Pinball)... we're all focussing on pinball, which is fair enough as this is a pinball forum, but can we expect a launch of something else from the animation side? A feature-length animated film perhaps? Or a RAZA universe set animation series for example.

I believe RAZA will go beyond just a pinball machine.

#7565 4 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

I believe RAZA will go beyond just a pinball machine.

If I ever get the game "in the house", it sure will be.

#7566 4 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

I believe RAZA will go beyond just a pinball machine.

Care to elaborate?

#7567 4 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

I believe RAZA will go beyond just a pinball machine.

Check out Sec.gov. Don’t take my word for it

#7568 4 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Care to elaborate?

Since the company is making things right with him, and invited him to the VIP party. He has good reason to have faith in them.

LTG : )

#7569 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Check out Sec.gov. Don’t take my word for it

For what, exactly? I found this from 2015 showing them with a 6mm offering:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1642564/000164256415000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

#7570 4 years ago

They’ve already said it’s also going to be an app.

3EA53E5B-1601-425F-B023-ECEB7E332F36 (resized).jpeg3EA53E5B-1601-425F-B023-ECEB7E332F36 (resized).jpeg
#7571 4 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

For what, exactly? I found this from 2015 showing them with a 6mm offering:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1642564/000164256415000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

Well. Keep looking. It’s 2020. They file updates every August

#7572 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well. Keep looking

Would you kindly give a slightly better hint than that?

#7573 4 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Would you kindly give a slightly better hint than that?

I’ll post the public link when I get to my computer. On my phone now

I think I did it a while back in this thread ?

#7574 4 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Care to elaborate?

Sure...sorry I wasn’t very clear. What I meant is that I believe RAZA will be a brand/franchise. With the amount of detail they put into the backstory and character development, I feel this had to be done for more than just the pinball machine. An animated series, video game, movie, app, lunchbox (lol), etc. are all possibilities in my mind.

#7575 4 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Sure...sorry I wasn’t very clear. What I meant is that I believe RAZA will be a brand/franchise. With the amount of detail they put into the backstory and character development, I feel this had to be done for more than just the pinball machine. An animated series, video game, movie, app, lunchbox (lol), etc. are all possibilities in my mind.

You would think right but who is gonna buy it?

It takes a TON of $$$ to market a story like that in the mainstream and while they have big money for pinball it’s chump change to do anything else

#7576 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You would think right but who is gonna buy it?
It takes a TON of $$$ to market a story like that in the mainstream and while they have big money for pinball it’s chump change to do anything else

Agreed...definitely a tall order financially. I would buy it ...I loved the teaser trailer they did awhile back!

#7577 4 years ago

With all the time, money, and talk...maybe their pins also will serve as a time travel capsule or something also?

#7578 4 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Sure...sorry I wasn’t very clear. What I meant is that I believe RAZA will be a brand/franchise. With the amount of detail they put into the backstory and character development, I feel this had to be done for more than just the pinball machine. An animated series, video game, movie, app, lunchbox (lol), etc. are all possibilities in my mind.

I must have missed the detail on backstory and character development. I've only seen a couple of concept sketches, some character art, and a trailer from them. You think they have what it takes to compete with Disney, Pixar, Ghibli, Adult Swim, Cartoon Network and their ilk?

Seems like a tall, tall order. It's extraordinarily rare for a video game to spawn an animated series or movie, and they have to be megahits like Halo to do so. I've never heard of a pinball machine making the jump. Don't stop believin' I guess.

#7579 4 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

I must have missed the detail on backstory and character development. I've only seen a couple of concept sketches, some character art, and a trailer from them. You think they have what it takes to compete with Disney, Pixar, Ghibli, Adult Swim, Cartoon Network and their ilk?
Seems like a tall, tall order. It's extraordinarily rare for a video game to spawn an animated series or movie, and they have to be megahits like Halo to do so. I've never heard of a pinball machine making the jump. Don't stop believin' I guess.

The Martian Princess is just so over this invasion thing!

RAZA is going to dominate all aspects of pop culture and I can't wait! I will 100 percent buy my niece a Martian Princess Halloween costume should they become available.

#7580 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The Martian Princess is just so over this invasion thing!
RAZA is going to dominate all aspects of pop culture and I can't wait! I will 100 percent buy my niece a Martian Princess Halloween costume should they become available.

Sure, if you can FIND one. The demand for these has far outpaced supply...I heard people were buying up all the Frozen princess costumes just so they could convert them to RAZA costumes.

#7581 4 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

It appears you would be critical of a company that claims they could build a better taco.

Only if they came to my door... promised the taco is better because of their new octo-flour recipes... that they will redefine the taco shelf in my supermarket.. and then all my neighbors keep talking about this new Taco being the king when no such taco has even hit the shelf yet.

#7582 4 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

The history of small pinball startups is irrelevant...this is NOT that.

You're right. They've sold thousands of games and proved they can hang with Stern and JJP.

My bad.

#7583 4 years ago

Errr ... Deerrrr! ... speaking of paying in full for games before they exist.

It was called full crazy Pre Order model

So you couldn't read back further to get that the reference has been to failed startups...

#7584 4 years ago

It's all crazy if you ask me. The rabid fanboy-gotta-be-first-and-throw-all-my-support-behind-a-company-I-know-literally-nothing-about is so quintessentially...American. When are people going to wake up and realize companies, the ones that want our money....they should have to earn that respect and desire. And frankly, short of for the JPOP screwed people (which you CANNOT EVER DISASSOCIATE FROM DEEPROOT NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU WANT TO TRY...), what have they done so far? Nothing.

Show me physical evidence, not a bunch of hot air. I offered to travel down to their studios to see what they were about, several times, previously. Nobody wanted to take me up on it. I said I would sign legally binding NDAs. *shrug* Frankly, the only reason I even give them any good faith at all right now is ENTIRELY due to Bowden deciding to throw his lot in with them. I don't think he's an idiot, nor would do that on a whim.

I'm more than willing to give them a chance to pitch their product. I just don't understand why everyone has to turn into drooling idiots over a company that's shown LITERALLY NOTHING other then the bare minimum of what JPOP should've delivered without them? What I'm saying is that we, as a community, have been burned enough times by this ridiculous unwarranted excitement, that we should be wary of that. That's why people preordered and wasted money. And to say it's risk free just because you're not PRE ordering...well...... Good luck with that. Tell that to the Heighway game owners now.

#7585 4 years ago

Pmsl

Relevance?

Did you buy STH?

Cheer up mate!

#7586 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Only if they came to my door... promised the taco is better because of their new octo-flour recipes... that they will redefine the taco shelf in my supermarket.. and then all my neighbors keep talking about this new Taco being the king when no such taco has even hit the shelf yet.

Now I am curious. Has Deeproot been to your door?

#7587 4 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Now I am curious. Has Deeproot been to your door?

Anyone would think they had Violated his Back door!

There seem to be a few grumpies on here like that. Who knew, DR been making house calls to Deep Root (fu@#) random pinsiders via the Back Door?

Pics or it didn't happen!!

#7588 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

It's all crazy if you ask me. The rabid fanboy-gotta-be-first-and-throw-all-my-support-behind-a-company-I-know-literally-nothing-about is so quintessentially...American. When are people going to wake up and realize companies, the ones that want our money....they should have to earn that respect and desire. And frankly, short of for the JPOP screwed people (which you CANNOT EVER DISASSOCIATE FROM DEEPROOT NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU WANT TO TRY...), what have they done so far? Nothing.
Show me physical evidence, not a bunch of hot air. I offered to travel down to their studios to see what they were about, several times, previously. Nobody wanted to take me up on it. I said I would sign legally binding NDAs. *shrug* Frankly, the only reason I even give them any good faith at all right now is ENTIRELY due to Bowden deciding to throw his lot in with them. I don't think he's an idiot, nor would do that on a whim.
I'm more than willing to give them a chance to pitch their product. I just don't understand why everyone has to turn into drooling idiots over a company that's shown LITERALLY NOTHING other then the bare minimum of what JPOP should've delivered without them? What I'm saying is that we, as a community, have been burned enough times by this ridiculous unwarranted excitement, that we should be wary of that. That's why people preordered and wasted money. And to say it's risk free just because you're not PRE ordering...well...... Good luck with that. Tell that to the Heighway game owners now.

I am no Deeproot fanboy, but I am personal friends with Barry O. and I would like him AND Deeproot to succeed. Good luck with what? No one has spent a dime on a Deeproot machine, so good luck with saving your money? You pound on the fact that Deeproot has created a buzz, but nothing to offer yet as a comparison to the other failures. Well the other failures created a buzz and took a lot of money without producing squat. As much as you and a few others feel that point is insignificant, you are completely wrong. Deeproot has asked for nothing but our attention, and they got it. You can choose to just ignore Deeproot as well, but I guess it is much more satisfying to bitch about something that has cost nothing.

Oh, BTW Deeproot owes you nothing, including your personal tour and scripted NDAs. Can you blame them for ignoring your requests?

-8
#7589 4 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

I am no Deeproot fanboy, but I am personal friends with Barry O. and I would like him AND Deeproot to succeed. Good luck with what? No one has spent a dime on a Deeproot machine, so good luck with saving your money? You pound on the fact that Deeproot has created a buzz, but nothing to offer yet as a comparison to the other failures. Well the other failures created a buzz and took a lot of money without producing squat. As much as you and a few others feel that point is insignificant, you are completely wrong. Deeproot has asked for nothing but our attention, and they got it. You can choose to just ignore Deeproot as well, but I guess it is much more satisfying to bitch about something that has cost nothing.
Oh, BTW Deeproot owes you nothing, including your personal tour and scripted NDAs. Can you blame them for ignoring your requests?

LOL, okay. Have fun with that brownnosing.

#7590 4 years ago

Brown nosing ....

Aren't they the kind of words people use when they've been left out, or f'd up the arse (Deep Rooted)?

Feel sorry for the poor excluded grumpies. I mean it. I wish you all to discover some happiness!

#7591 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

LOL, okay. Have fun with that brownnosing.

If my position on things with Deeproot is considered as a bit of soil on my nose, then your position on Deeproot must consist of your entire head up your own black hole.

#7592 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

You're right. They've sold thousands of games and proved they can hang with Stern and JJP.
My bad.

You completely missed the point and countered with another completely irrelevant point. First you compared deeproot to other small startups, which I disagreed with. Then you countered my point by comparing them to established industry leaders Stern and JJP, which clearly makes no sense as deeproot hasn’t even launched yet! Please reference any other pinball startup that assembled a team with anywhere near the experience, talent, and expertise that deeproot has. This, along with deeproot Studios, their deep pockets, and not asking for a dime of pre-order money, is very different than other small pinball startups. I would think you would be able to see the difference, and then again, maybe not?

-2
#7593 4 years ago

Agree to disagree then. Until they have games out the door, as far as I'm concerned, they're a small time operation, regardless of how many people they throw money at. I don't care if they hired 20,000 people, if they can't actually get product out, and start up their company without talking shit about everyone else as if they're the second coming of christ. I'm actually very interested to see if they back up their mouth with proof...so far the pinball industry hasn't had a good track record of that, Stern and JJP included.

12
#7594 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

what have they done so far? Nothing.

Nothing except paying back people who they owed nothing to, legally. The fact that they paid off debts made by Zidware is enough to have me rooting for them.
Why is the same group of about 5 people who shit on every thread on pinside.

#7595 4 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Nothing except paying back people who they owed nothing to, legally. The fact that they paid off debts made by Zidware is enough to have me rooting for them.
Why is the same group of about 5 people who shit on every thread on pinside.

Maybe if you folks would learn to actually debate something without making it personal all the time, you'd figure out why this keeps happening. If you don't like me, put me on ignore, because I really don't give a damn. You're allowed to have your opinions to fawn all over a company that's not proven, and I'm allowed to have an opinion that until they ship product and keep the doors open, then they're suspect. Doesn't mean we have to agree, but you saying that someone is shitting on a thread just because their opinion isn't aligned with the majority opinion (WHICH BY THE WAY...I was the minority opinion on Predator, Zidware, AND Heighway...and I was right in the end....might not be here, we'll see!) is just you trying to stomp on people you don't agree with.

#7596 4 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Nothing except paying back people who they owed nothing to, legally. The fact that they paid off debts made by Zidware is enough to have me rooting for them.
Why is the same group of about 5 people who shit on every thread on pinside.

Ahhh probably should simply let 'em be. They're just a couple of disturbed grumpy dudes with pineapples in their bums and an addiction to trolling. Fishing for attention and reaction; rather than enjoying the world of pinball, relevant pinball discussion, and reasonable speculation.

It isn't necessarily their fault that they get pesimistic, negative and overly skeptical. Maybe they've been though some exceptionally rough situations. Have some compassion! ... for Petes sake!

#7597 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Maybe if you folks would learn to actually debate something without making it personal all the time, you'd figure out why this keeps happening. If you don't like me, put me on ignore, because I really don't give a damn. You're allowed to have your opinions to fawn all over a company that's not proven, and I'm allowed to have an opinion that until they ship product and keep the doors open, then they're suspect. Doesn't mean we have to agree, but you saying that someone is shitting on a thread just because their opinion isn't aligned with the majority opinion (WHICH BY THE WAY...I was the minority opinion on Predator, Zidware, AND Heighway...and I was right in the end....might not be here, we'll see!) is just you trying to stomp on people you don't agree with.

I wouldn’t take it personal you typically have valid points and contributions. Don’t really see anyone cheerleading for Deeproot but it does (not saying you) get old reading the continuous doomsday Assumed predictions based on a company None of us really know anything about. Speaking crap or “marketing” about their competition it is what it is. They want to be heard good or bad. Heck I Bet there are Thousands of posts on Pinside saying the same thing about these companies and how they could do better as well but those are applauded as value? In a short time they will lift the curtain and those interested in the games created will line up. Many for their own reasons will simply return to the other options available. Be great to judge them for what they Do VS what we assume they may do right or wrong.

#7598 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Maybe if you folks would learn to actually debate something without making it personal all the time, you'd figure out why this keeps happening. If you don't like me, put me on ignore, because I really don't give a damn. You're allowed to have your opinions to fawn all over a company that's not proven, and I'm allowed to have an opinion that until they ship product and keep the doors open, then they're suspect. Doesn't mean we have to agree, but you saying that someone is shitting on a thread just because their opinion isn't aligned with the majority opinion (WHICH BY THE WAY...I was the minority opinion on Predator, Zidware, AND Heighway...and I was right in the end....might not be here, we'll see!) is just you trying to stomp on people you don't agree with.

There are people hoping DR will be competition for Stern, so pricing will stabilize or PF’s will be better populated as a result of DR coming into the market. Somewhat agree with your assessment, DR doesn’t appear to be doing things a successful challenger should be doing. Your point about them being Zidware 2.0 might have some truth to it. You’re 3 for 3 right now and you might be 4 for 4 in the end.

Agree, that we should all be adult and discuss without getting personal.

#7599 4 years ago

Okay, well let me restate my side, maybe this will come out better in a way more people can understand, and less confrontational. I'll try and keep it simple, and this is the last thing I'm going to say until after TPF on the matter....

I don't like the way Deeproot initially came out swinging, because it very much reminded me of how Skit-B, JPOP, and Heighway started out. I'm glad they seem to have backed off that for a good while now.

I did not DEMAND a tour..I offered to go down there and see what they were about if they were willing to let me. I said, openly, on the forums, that I would even sign a NDA if that's what they wanted. Not that I'd ever leak something given to me in confidence anyways, but I do understand they likely have some secrets they'd like to keep a lid on.

I'm VERY happy for the RAZA people that are getting something that would've otherwise been totally screwed.

What I'd like to see is their actual product, and for other people to stop with the fanboy evangelism, until they actually have a product available instead of just finishing what Jpop made a disaster out of. I want to know if they're using industry standard parts, or are going to go along with John's crazy ideas of reinventing everything that works perfectly fine. Are these machines going to be serviceable, and are they going to be able to offer up support over the years, not flame out like Heighway after two games, or not?

Most importantly: I DON'T WANT TO BE RIGHT WITH MY SKEPTICISM HERE. SERIOUSLY. I want the hobby to grow, and we NEED more competition for that to happen. I honestly thought JJP launching would bring down prices, and they just went even higher. I really didn't see them going off the rails into uber-boutique stuff and leaving Stern in the dust, giving them even more room to raise prices! Right now Spooky is the only one making games at a reasonable price. There are big holes in the pricing structures between Spooky, Stern, JJP.....which leaves plenty of room for new guys to play with BOM, manufacturing method, etc. to either undercut, or offer more for the same price. I already moved from an opinion of "There's no way in hell Deeproot will do anything at all." to more like "Huh, that's some interesting stuff. Hopefully they have something more than RAZA lined up behind the curtain."

These are things we should all want to know, I would hope? I just don't feel like the blind supportive fanboyism does anything useful. It doesn't answer the questions we need to know, doesn't provide any insight into the future of this company, etc.

I'm arguing from going from "blind supportive fanboyism" down a few notches to "cautiously optimisic." Let's see what they can do, when they actually have something to show, and games to ship. Let the RAZA people get their stuff. See if they can get a few games out the door in a reasonable timeframe after they're announced, and support those warranties (if they offer them). If they can do that stuff, then I'll be celebrating with everyone else. If not.....well...we all kind of lost, regardless of whether or not money was spent.

And that's all I've got to say, so whatever. Don't agree...great. Do agree...great.

#7600 4 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

There are people hoping DP will be competition for Stern, so pricing will stabilize or PF’s will be better populated as a result of DP coming into the market. Somewhat agree with your assessment, DP doesn’t appear to be doing things a successful challenger should be doing. Your point about them being Zidware 2.0 might have some truth to it. You’re 3 for 3 right now and you might be 4 for 4 in the end.
Agree, that we should all be adult and discuss without getting personal.

Stern has a ton of competition - there’s like, 5 other pinball manufacturers now? - and prices have never been higher.

Do you expect this to change when deep root unleashed the RAZA masterpiece?

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