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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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#7051 4 years ago
 
BAD

BC_Gambit

PinMod Industries

Unknown

11y 70,550 3,532

All I really need to know is Punny Factory went from being a joke of a joke to something I can apparently buy with money, and probably is more functional than RAZA as shown (disclaimer: I have not played either game yet shockingly).

Punny Mother-duckin' Factory!
https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2019/12/16/punny-factory/

Made by the guy who could not put out a pinball book without ruining every step of the process (accidentally duplicating an entire chapter was the runny brown icing on top of the crap cake).

He made a game... that is apparently close to being done. In less than a year or two?

Similar to Skit-B, aside from all the heartache there Kevin K's worst punishment is just stuck being himself forever. Deeproot's punishment might be being shown up by the Punny Factory team.

And I don't say that lightly; they have a lot of great talent there. I really hope the next reveal blows us away, vs. just blowing...

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#7052 4 years ago
 
SBS

o-din

Pinside+ Addict

11y 158K 58,769

Quoted from branlon8:

If Deeproot fails I’m going to be super pissed because of all the time and effort I’ve put into reading this thread.

I'll be pissed because then I've wasted all this time getting my hopes up for Sledge Hammer!

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#7053 4 years ago
 
MJO

arcademojo

Pinside member

10y 131K 5,513 30

Quoted from frolic:

If you aren't competing with Stern Pros, then you are left fighting for the scraps at the higher end of that market. Goooooood luck.

This 100%. Myself, most operators and probably 90% of everyone here are hoping for them to be able to compete against Stern pros and knock a chunk off of their prices. If they can do that, then they can make a wave in the market.

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#7054 4 years ago
 
DAD

Yelobird

The Mod Couple

US Wheaton, IL

20y 160K 10,056 44 37

Quoted from arcademojo:

This 100%. Myself, most operators and probably 90% of everyone here are hoping for them to be able to compete against Stern pros and knock a chunk off of their prices. If they can do that, then they can make a wave in the market.

Just curious. So does everyone want a better quality game offering or simply a lower price option? While my guess is all will say both seems like everyone is hung up on a cheaper price game only option over a more fun shooter change of product.

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#7055 4 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,874 28 49

Quoted from Rondogg:

Robert clearly said several times that there are no investors and it was all "his" money.

100% incorrect. Just go to sec.gov and read for yourself.

They have raised over $30 million of “accredited investor” money

Investor advisors putting their client into this alt investment

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#7056 4 years ago
 
SBS

o-din

Pinside+ Addict

11y 158K 58,769

Quoted from iceman44:

They have raised over $30 million of “accredited investor” money

Is that all for their pinball fund, or does that include any of their other funds?

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#7057 4 years ago
 
TBM

Zablon

Pinside member

US Kellogg, IA

9y 103K 10,568 11

Quoted from Yelobird:

Just curious. So does everyone want a better quality game offering or simply a lower price option? While my guess is all will say both seems like everyone is hung up on a cheaper price game only option over a more fun shooter change of product.

Competition tends to drive prices lower while at the same time driving innovative ways to make things cheaper while upping quality. At least, that is how it is supposed to work. I think we all agree that pinball while having a great comeback is still a very niche area of the market. I think the majority of pinside represents the home market (along with operators) who actually buy a machine, not the people who just go to locations and put quarters in. A person putting quarters in does not care how much a machine costs, they only care about how fun it is to play. One can argue the same for home buyers, but that is an even smaller slice of the population. Most home buyers want them cheaper and better.

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#7058 4 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

Quoted from iceman44:

100% incorrect. Just go to sec.gov and read for yourself.
They have raised over $30 million of “accredited investor” money
Investor advisors putting their client into this alt investment

Well he is a patient guy sitting on $30Mil. The Rick & Morty thread just caught up to this 2 year Deeproot thread of interest in just 30 days.

I want to see new J-Pop machines (and others) from Deeproot, but now that my collection is heading to max capacity might be overlooking this unless something gets released soon. And Raza isn't going to cut it.

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#7059 4 years ago
 
TGH

greenhornet

Pinside member

US Menifee, CA

6y 71,050 1,671

Quoted from arcademojo:

hoping for them to be able to compete against Stern pros and knock a chunk off of their prices. If they can do that, then they can make a wave in the market.

deeproot is already making waves.

bonvoyage.gifbonvoyage.gif
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#7060 4 years ago
 
JAS

Sinistarrett

Pinside member

US Freeport, FL

8y 81,850 1,623 3 12

My original enthusiasm and excitement about Deeproot has pretty much faded entirely away over the couple of years since they first claimed they were going to “ build a Ferrarri pin at Kia prices”.
Unless they really do have multiple games to unveil and soon, I think they have damn near missed the boat.

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#7061 4 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

Quoted from Sinistarrett:

My original enthusiasm and excitement about Deeproot has pretty much faded entirely away over the couple of years since they first claimed they were going to “ build a Ferrarri pin at Kia prices”.
Unless they really do have multiple games to unveil and soon, I think they have damn near missed the boat.

Yeah same here. They missed the boat. If they had just released 1 pin in 2019 they would be on the map.

And while they don’t need to post or satisfy Pinside by any means, their communications are just horrible and complete garbage.

Meanwhile MOST of the reason Rick & Morty flew off the shelves is because of Scott. He continues to be the prime example of how to create new pinball in 2020. And he connects directly with his audience, something Deeproot has failed to do on any level.

I’ve yet to find anybody that has any issues with Scott & what he’s doing. Yet Deeproot is the complete opposite.

So yeah, if you don’t believe in the designer & company behind a pinball game, why the F would you ever be interested in buying one from them?

So yeah, the window for me being interested has long gone and past

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#7062 4 years ago
 
LTG

LTG

Pinside member

US Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,933 24 7

Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Meanwhile MOST of the reason Rick & Morty flew off the shelves is because of Scott.

Charlie too. Charlie would climb mountains to get stuff done. He doesn't have time for bravado. He just keeps getting machines built and out the door.

LTG : )

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#7063 4 years ago
 
DAD

Yelobird

The Mod Couple

US Wheaton, IL

20y 160K 10,056 44 37

Quoted from Zablon:

Competition tends to drive prices lower while at the same time driving innovative ways to make things cheaper while upping quality. At least, that is how it is supposed to work. I think we all agree that pinball while having a great comeback is still a very niche area of the market. I think the majority of pinside represents the home market (along with operators) who actually buy a machine, not the people who just go to locations and put quarters in. A person putting quarters in does not care how much a machine costs, they only care about how fun it is to play. One can argue the same for home buyers, but that is an even smaller slice of the population. Most home buyers want them cheaper and better.

Really? Seems the exact opposite to me. When Stern was basically solo the pricing was virtually flat. Now with 5-10 new players the pricing is in no way headed Down.

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#7064 4 years ago
 
DAD

Yelobird

The Mod Couple

US Wheaton, IL

20y 160K 10,056 44 37

Quoted from LTG:

Charlie too. Charlie would climb mountains to get stuff done. He doesn't have time for bravado. He just keeps getting machines built and out the door.
LTG : )

I would agree. Scott is awesome but for me I’m betting (buying) based on a Company not an individual. The funny and impressive thing is Spooky makes no claim to want to compete with Stern or be like them. They build the best they can and support those that appreciate what they do. Simple business model.

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#7065 4 years ago
 
???

Extraballz

Inactive member

US Kingston, MA

4y 44,900 688

Quoted from Yelobird:

Really? Seems the exact opposite to me. When Stern was basically solo the pricing was virtually flat. Now with 5-10 new players the pricing is in no way headed Down.

Agreed. I am only looking for better build quality, more mechs/features and more assets. If I got that I could accept current pricing.

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#7066 4 years ago
 
DAD

Yelobird

The Mod Couple

US Wheaton, IL

20y 160K 10,056 44 37

Quoted from Extraballz:

Agreed. I am only looking for better build quality, more mechs/features and more assets. If I got that I could accept current pricing.

That’s where I’m at. Personally don’t care about the owner or his theatrical marketing. I’m not buying time with the owner/individual, I’m buying a product. If you make a product I like I could care less about his finances, employees, or any of the other side show concerns. It’s a game and I’m a simple buyer.

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#7067 4 years ago
 
TBM

Zablon

Pinside member

US Kellogg, IA

9y 103K 10,568 11

Quoted from Yelobird:

Really? Seems the exact opposite to me. When Stern was basically solo the pricing was virtually flat. Now with 5-10 new players the pricing is in no way headed Down.

Agreed, however I think there are particulars of the market at play here. Once saturation hits (whenever that actually happens) something will break. We are still seeing absurd demand, even used prices aren't going down.

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#7068 4 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,874 28 49

Quoted from o-din:

Is that all for their pinball fund, or does that include any of their other funds?

Here is my post from earlier. Just click the link. 35 non accredited investors, 126 overall. Deeproot 575 fund, LLC

So good for them.

"It's sort of amazing isn't it Bill? They are operating under Reg D and file annual updates with the SEC. If you go onto SEC.GOV and search it you'll find the details right there.

Investment advisors are putting their "accredited clients" into this investment. Looks like an 8% commission.

However, nothing wrong with Reg D, idle capital sitting on the sidelines going to work in the marketplace creating jobs and opportunity. Usually high risk high reward.

Here you go, public records. Actually up to $32 million raised and filed for a new $37 million offering once they reach $35 million on the first one.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652459/000165245919000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml"

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#7069 4 years ago
 
RON

Rondogg

Pinside member

11y 109K 3,341

Quoted from iceman44:

Here is my post from earlier. Just click the link. 35 non accredited investors, 126 overall. Deeproot 575 fund, LLC
So good for them.
"It's sort of amazing isn't it Bill? They are operating under Reg D and file annual updates with the SEC. If you go onto SEC.GOV and search it you'll find the details right there.
Investment advisors are putting their "accredited clients" into this investment. Looks like an 8% commission.
However, nothing wrong with Reg D, idle capital sitting on the sidelines going to work in the marketplace creating jobs and opportunity. Usually high risk high reward.
Here you go, public records. Actually up to $32 million raised and filed for a new $37 million offering once they reach $35 million on the first one.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652459/000165245919000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml"

Thanks. Is there some technical/legal reason he can say it's all his money and there are no investors? Serious question.

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#7070 4 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,874 28 49

Quoted from Rondogg:

Thanks. Is there some technical/legal reason he can say it's all his money and there are no investors? Serious question.

Where did he ever say that? I don't get it either.

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#7071 4 years ago
 
RON

Rondogg

Pinside member

11y 109K 3,341

Quoted from iceman44:

Where did he ever say that? I don't get it either.

He said it in the recent Kaneda interview (which has been taken down I think). He was very adamant.

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#7072 4 years ago
 
ROB

Rdoyle1978

Pinside member

7y 117K 18,130 14 6 1

Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Yeah same here. They missed the boat. If they had just released 1 pin in 2019 they would be on the map.
And while they don’t need to post or satisfy Pinside by any means, their communications are just horrible and complete garbage.
Meanwhile MOST of the reason Rick & Morty flew off the shelves is because of Scott. He continues to be the prime example of how to create new pinball in 2020. And he connects directly with his audience, something Deeproot has failed to do on any level.
I’ve yet to find anybody that has any issues with Scott & what he’s doing. Yet Deeproot is the complete opposite.
So yeah, if you don’t believe in the designer & company behind a pinball game, why the F would you ever be interested in buying one from them?
So yeah, the window for me being interested has long gone and past

They didn’t miss the boat. This was never about buyers, or enthusiasts, or even about getting JPOP fans whole. That was a wonderful side effect. But (if it’s all true) the recklessness of expenditure and the insane expectations make this all a fool’s errand. I don’t believe an attorney and insurance maven would expose himself so brazenly to such a money pit. This all smells foul. But what do I know? Maybe the other Deeproot-related ventures made a ton of money which needs to be Hollywood accounted for.

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#7073 4 years ago
 
MJO

arcademojo

Pinside member

10y 131K 5,513 30

Quoted from Yelobird:

Really? Seems the exact opposite to me. When Stern was basically solo the pricing was virtually flat. Now with 5-10 new players the pricing is in no way headed Down.

That’s because they are all basically boutique companies or startup companies. They are all competing in the higher end pricing. They all had to price their games higher to make up for less sales. Non are competing with Stern Pros. Stern saw we were willing to pay more so raised their prices.

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#7074 4 years ago
 
CVJ

SmallyBells

Pinside member

US Kansas City, OR

4y 22,400 84 6

I second hearing that. Can no longer find the evidence, but recall ‘100% my money’

I also fail to understand how investor money is his money.

Pinside is a sewer.

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#7075 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,104 2

And yet none of this matters shit.

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#7076 4 years ago
 
SBS

o-din

Pinside+ Addict

11y 158K 58,769

Quoted from iceman44:

Here you go, public records. Actually up to $32 million raised and filed for a new $37 million offering once they reach $35 million on the first one.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652459/000165245919000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml"

I see all that but am missing the part in the document that this $32 million is for their pinball fund.

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#7077 4 years ago
 
CBM

spfxted

Pinside member

US Saddle River, NJ

12y 147K 24,659 4 9

Quoted from wolfemaaan:

They missed the boat.

south park 4 point plan 4 (resized).jpgsouth park 4 point plan 4 (resized).jpg
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#7078 4 years ago
 
CAP

Capn12

Pinside member

US Anderson, SC

5y 91,300 1,102 5

I’ll never understand Pinside’s fascination/obsession with other people’s money.

Who cares where DR is funded from? Unless you’re a direct investor, it doesn’t matter.

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#7079 4 years ago
 
DON

Fulltilt

Pinside+ Pro!

US Nowhere Ridge, TN

12y 114K 6,756 8

Quoted from Capn12:

I’ll never understand Pinside’s fascination/obsession with other people’s money.
Who cares where DR is funded from? Unless you’re a direct investor, it doesn’t matter.

As long as I get 2 playable pins I’m good.
Playable is a key word.

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#7080 4 years ago
 
AER

OnTheSnap

Pinside member

US Los Gatos, CA

6y 53,550 590 6

Aren’t they building a complete multi media company, where pinball is just one component?

Therefore the investments can be recouped in multiple verticals.

Silly to pretend we understand the full picture here.

With the talent they’ve assembled, and if they can ship half the hardware they’ve mentioned, this has huge potential.

I’m looking forward to TPF, and what shows up. Raza looks very promising, and I really liked the fact that they took consumer feedback on a prototype to figure out what needs to change.

My 2c

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#7081 4 years ago
 
STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,217

Quoted from Capn12:

I’ll never understand Pinside’s fascination/obsession with other people’s money.
Who cares where DR is funded from? Unless you’re a direct investor, it doesn’t matter.

Because when someone comes rollin in promising to turn water into wine... and give everyone a free golden goose.. you start asking questions about how all that is supposed to work.

Unless you just want to be the type of consumer that like to make big purchases on just blind faith...

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#7082 4 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

Yeah you go into the R&M thread and it’s like an all night party.

You come here to the Deeproot thread and it’s a morgue.

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#7083 4 years ago
 
JDS

JohnnyPinball007

Pinside+ Frequent

6y 162K 16,328 22 1

All I know is I have read all of this from the start, and it has kind of been like a ok movie that I wanted to see the end in 90 minutes, but now it is like 5 hours long, and still keeping up, but getting old.

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#7084 4 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

Junior Mints (2) (resized).pngJunior Mints (2) (resized).png
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#7085 4 years ago
 
CJC

cjchand

Pinside member

US Allen, TX

5y 53,800 566 1

Quoted from Rondogg:

He said it in the recent Kaneda interview (which has been taken down I think). He was very adamant.

That episode wasn’t taken down. K addressed it on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/1658587937736570/posts/2437503196511703?d=n&sfns=mo

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#7086 4 years ago
 
DMB

PismoArcade

Pinside+ Frequent

US St. George, UT

12y 143K 4,100 3 134

Quoted from cjchand:

That episode wasn’t taken down. K addressed it on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/1658587937736570/posts/2437503196511703?d=n&sfns=mo

Actually, it was. Even the link that Chris posted doesn't work.

38066B10-0A2C-457D-81EC-5AC23B3BEF84 (resized).jpeg38066B10-0A2C-457D-81EC-5AC23B3BEF84 (resized).jpegA49BBFFB-225F-4BF4-8620-5B163897A9E3 (resized).jpegA49BBFFB-225F-4BF4-8620-5B163897A9E3 (resized).jpeg
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#7087 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,104 2

It works fine from here (germany - maybe really a copyright issue)

https://m.soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot

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#7088 4 years ago
 
RAZ

razorsedge

FRAG

8y 78,850 3,257

https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot

This link works fine for me. If it doesn't work elsewhere I guess that must be region related... or, whatever.

Here as well:

https://podtail.com/en/podcast/kaneda-s-pinball-podcast/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot/

...or even here:

https://podbay.fm/podcast/1073821815/e/1574219787

53m25s RM talks about who is paying.

Also there is the Loser Kid podcast, they received a reply to some of their email questions, from RM:

https://soundcloud.com/loserkidpinballpodcast/ep-21-loserkid-emails-deeproot-robert-mueller-responds

They talk about the RM response re. "investment" starting around 13m30s.

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#7089 4 years ago
 
KIM

Mr68

Pinside+ Frequent

US Boulder, CO

12y 150K 8,645

I don't recall the quote where RM said it was his money and I don't really care. Assuming he did say it, I'm certain he was speaking figuratively as in, it was his money to spend on the company/investor's behalf.

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#7090 4 years ago
 
RON

Rondogg

Pinside member

11y 109K 3,341

Quoted from Mr68:

I don't recall the quote where RM said it was his money and I don't really care. Assuming he did say it, I'm certain he was speaking figuratively as in, it was his money to spend on the company/investor's behalf.

He clearly said "there are no investors, it's all my money". To me this is potentially a big deal because:

a. If there are investors then he is flat out lying in the most bold way possible and is subjecting himself to possible legal issues.
b. He is using some kind of "investor speak" which I really don't understand and wish someone could explain.
c. He is telling the truth and may be close to bankruptcy.

It's potentially a big deal because if I want to invest in one of their games (and that's why I'm in this thread to begin with), I want to know the company will be around to support it.

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#7091 4 years ago
 
RAZ

razorsedge

FRAG

8y 78,850 3,257

...or

d. He is "technically" the sole (pinball) "investor".

e. Other speculation

"Business" is full of designed in loopholes

Besides any of this, people seem to be missing the fact that if this was some other business playboy, that 30M give or take could have just as easily been blown on replacing the "old" yacht.

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#7092 4 years ago
 
WUF

wolfemaaan

Inactive member

5y 69,650 1,495

Maybe people donated $32 Million

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#7093 4 years ago
 
DMM

DS_Nadine

Pinside member

DE Düsseldorf

8y 72,800 4,104 2

Quoted from Rondogg:

It's potentially a big deal because if I want to invest in one of their games (and that's why I'm in this thread to begin with), I want to know the company will be around to support it.

That is a fair point but still let‘s wait with talking that problem to death until it actually becomes relevant.
That‘d be when the first game becomes available.

As an investor, if there are any, it‘d be dumb to stop cash flow at this point in time soon before the launch and a possible ROI.

So whatever is the financial background, it‘ll all rise or fall the with sales numbers you all are a part of.
Only the timing differs/ more money means a longer breath.

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#7094 4 years ago
 
RUS

russdx

Pinside member

8y 60,800 2,084 5

I remember the podcast quite well and I also noticed when he mentioned his own money and it was not investor money, thought this was a bit strange.

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#7095 4 years ago
 
SMB

Concretehardt

Pinside+ Frequent

US Eugene, OR

11y 145K 10,075 2 27

Quoted from russdx:

I remember the podcast quite well and I also noticed when he mentioned his own money and it was not investor money, thought this was a bit strange.

K-Man just reposted the original podcast

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#7096 4 years ago
 
CVJ

SmallyBells

Pinside member

US Kansas City, OR

4y 22,400 84 6

Anyone have a clue why Mr. mueller said that?
I’m out of my depth when it comes to investors and FTC rules.

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#7097 4 years ago
 
DAD

Yelobird

The Mod Couple

US Wheaton, IL

20y 160K 10,056 44 37

Quoted from SmallyBells:

Anyone have a clue why Mr. mueller said that?
I’m out of my depth when it comes to investors and FTC rules.

Because he’s a showman and he knew we would keep busy picking it apart as if mattered. We are buying a game not being asked to buy shares of his company or individual employee of his company. IF he was taking deposits I would totally care about his financial position. As we are not I could care less if he was a Columbian drug lord on the side.

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#7098 4 years ago
 
RUS

russdx

Pinside member

8y 60,800 2,084 5

Quoted from Yelobird:

Because he’s a showman and he knew we would keep busy picking it apart as if mattered. We are buying a game not being asked to buy shares of his company or individual employee of his company. IF he was taking deposits I would totally care about his financial position. As we are not I could care less if he was a Columbian drug lord on the side.

Pablooooooo....

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#7099 4 years ago
 
???

Extraballz

Inactive member

US Kingston, MA

4y 44,900 688

A lot of us are watching NFL football today. Most of the owners are rich A holes. Yet we still watch and love NFL football. The product is all that matters in the end to most. I try to take all emotion out of my monetary purchases. Quality....features....gameplay...art. Repeat.

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#7100 4 years ago
 
DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

US Boerne, TX

13y 162K 26,874 28 49

Quoted from o-din:

I see all that but am missing the part in the document that this $32 million is for their pinball fund.

See the address? That’s where pinball headquarters and manufacturing are

The prospectus? What else do you think these people are throwing money at?

It would make sense if there was more. I’m thinking the Utah group has something to do with both pinball and non pinball

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