(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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#7051 55 days ago

All I really need to know is Punny Factory went from being a joke of a joke to something I can apparently buy with money, and probably is more functional than RAZA as shown (disclaimer: I have not played either game yet shockingly).

Punny Mother-duckin' Factory!
https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2019/12/16/punny-factory/

Made by the guy who could not put out a pinball book without ruining every step of the process (accidentally duplicating an entire chapter was the runny brown icing on top of the crap cake).

He made a game... that is apparently close to being done. In less than a year or two?

Similar to Skit-B, aside from all the heartache there Kevin K's worst punishment is just stuck being himself forever. Deeproot's punishment might be being shown up by the Punny Factory team.

And I don't say that lightly; they have a lot of great talent there. I really hope the next reveal blows us away, vs. just blowing...

#7052 55 days ago
Quoted from branlon8:

If Deeproot fails I’m going to be super pissed because of all the time and effort I’ve put into reading this thread.

I'll be pissed because then I've wasted all this time getting my hopes up for Sledge Hammer!

#7053 55 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

If you aren't competing with Stern Pros, then you are left fighting for the scraps at the higher end of that market. Goooooood luck.

This 100%. Myself, most operators and probably 90% of everyone here are hoping for them to be able to compete against Stern pros and knock a chunk off of their prices. If they can do that, then they can make a wave in the market.

#7054 55 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

This 100%. Myself, most operators and probably 90% of everyone here are hoping for them to be able to compete against Stern pros and knock a chunk off of their prices. If they can do that, then they can make a wave in the market.

Just curious. So does everyone want a better quality game offering or simply a lower price option? While my guess is all will say both seems like everyone is hung up on a cheaper price game only option over a more fun shooter change of product.

#7055 55 days ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Robert clearly said several times that there are no investors and it was all "his" money.

100% incorrect. Just go to sec.gov and read for yourself.

They have raised over $30 million of “accredited investor” money

Investor advisors putting their client into this alt investment

#7056 55 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

They have raised over $30 million of “accredited investor” money

Is that all for their pinball fund, or does that include any of their other funds?

#7057 55 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Just curious. So does everyone want a better quality game offering or simply a lower price option? While my guess is all will say both seems like everyone is hung up on a cheaper price game only option over a more fun shooter change of product.

Competition tends to drive prices lower while at the same time driving innovative ways to make things cheaper while upping quality. At least, that is how it is supposed to work. I think we all agree that pinball while having a great comeback is still a very niche area of the market. I think the majority of pinside represents the home market (along with operators) who actually buy a machine, not the people who just go to locations and put quarters in. A person putting quarters in does not care how much a machine costs, they only care about how fun it is to play. One can argue the same for home buyers, but that is an even smaller slice of the population. Most home buyers want them cheaper and better.

#7058 55 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

100% incorrect. Just go to sec.gov and read for yourself.
They have raised over $30 million of “accredited investor” money
Investor advisors putting their client into this alt investment

Well he is a patient guy sitting on $30Mil. The Rick & Morty thread just caught up to this 2 year Deeproot thread of interest in just 30 days.

I want to see new J-Pop machines (and others) from Deeproot, but now that my collection is heading to max capacity might be overlooking this unless something gets released soon. And Raza isn't going to cut it.

#7059 55 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

hoping for them to be able to compete against Stern pros and knock a chunk off of their prices. If they can do that, then they can make a wave in the market.

deeproot is already making waves.

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#7060 55 days ago

My original enthusiasm and excitement about Deeproot has pretty much faded entirely away over the couple of years since they first claimed they were going to “ build a Ferrarri pin at Kia prices”.
Unless they really do have multiple games to unveil and soon, I think they have damn near missed the boat.

10
#7061 55 days ago
Quoted from Sinistarrett:

My original enthusiasm and excitement about Deeproot has pretty much faded entirely away over the couple of years since they first claimed they were going to “ build a Ferrarri pin at Kia prices”.
Unless they really do have multiple games to unveil and soon, I think they have damn near missed the boat.

Yeah same here. They missed the boat. If they had just released 1 pin in 2019 they would be on the map.

And while they don’t need to post or satisfy Pinside by any means, their communications are just horrible and complete garbage.

Meanwhile MOST of the reason Rick & Morty flew off the shelves is because of Scott. He continues to be the prime example of how to create new pinball in 2020. And he connects directly with his audience, something Deeproot has failed to do on any level.

I’ve yet to find anybody that has any issues with Scott & what he’s doing. Yet Deeproot is the complete opposite.

So yeah, if you don’t believe in the designer & company behind a pinball game, why the F would you ever be interested in buying one from them?

So yeah, the window for me being interested has long gone and past

25
#7062 55 days ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Meanwhile MOST of the reason Rick & Morty flew off the shelves is because of Scott.

Charlie too. Charlie would climb mountains to get stuff done. He doesn't have time for bravado. He just keeps getting machines built and out the door.

LTG : )

#7063 55 days ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Competition tends to drive prices lower while at the same time driving innovative ways to make things cheaper while upping quality. At least, that is how it is supposed to work. I think we all agree that pinball while having a great comeback is still a very niche area of the market. I think the majority of pinside represents the home market (along with operators) who actually buy a machine, not the people who just go to locations and put quarters in. A person putting quarters in does not care how much a machine costs, they only care about how fun it is to play. One can argue the same for home buyers, but that is an even smaller slice of the population. Most home buyers want them cheaper and better.

Really? Seems the exact opposite to me. When Stern was basically solo the pricing was virtually flat. Now with 5-10 new players the pricing is in no way headed Down.

#7064 55 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Charlie too. Charlie would climb mountains to get stuff done. He doesn't have time for bravado. He just keeps getting machines built and out the door.
LTG : )

I would agree. Scott is awesome but for me I’m betting (buying) based on a Company not an individual. The funny and impressive thing is Spooky makes no claim to want to compete with Stern or be like them. They build the best they can and support those that appreciate what they do. Simple business model.

#7065 55 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Really? Seems the exact opposite to me. When Stern was basically solo the pricing was virtually flat. Now with 5-10 new players the pricing is in no way headed Down.

Agreed. I am only looking for better build quality, more mechs/features and more assets. If I got that I could accept current pricing.

#7066 55 days ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

Agreed. I am only looking for better build quality, more mechs/features and more assets. If I got that I could accept current pricing.

That’s where I’m at. Personally don’t care about the owner or his theatrical marketing. I’m not buying time with the owner/individual, I’m buying a product. If you make a product I like I could care less about his finances, employees, or any of the other side show concerns. It’s a game and I’m a simple buyer.

#7067 55 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Really? Seems the exact opposite to me. When Stern was basically solo the pricing was virtually flat. Now with 5-10 new players the pricing is in no way headed Down.

Agreed, however I think there are particulars of the market at play here. Once saturation hits (whenever that actually happens) something will break. We are still seeing absurd demand, even used prices aren't going down.

#7068 55 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

Is that all for their pinball fund, or does that include any of their other funds?

Here is my post from earlier. Just click the link. 35 non accredited investors, 126 overall. Deeproot 575 fund, LLC

So good for them.

"It's sort of amazing isn't it Bill? They are operating under Reg D and file annual updates with the SEC. If you go onto SEC.GOV and search it you'll find the details right there.

Investment advisors are putting their "accredited clients" into this investment. Looks like an 8% commission.

However, nothing wrong with Reg D, idle capital sitting on the sidelines going to work in the marketplace creating jobs and opportunity. Usually high risk high reward.

Here you go, public records. Actually up to $32 million raised and filed for a new $37 million offering once they reach $35 million on the first one.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652459/000165245919000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml"

#7069 54 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Here is my post from earlier. Just click the link. 35 non accredited investors, 126 overall. Deeproot 575 fund, LLC
So good for them.
"It's sort of amazing isn't it Bill? They are operating under Reg D and file annual updates with the SEC. If you go onto SEC.GOV and search it you'll find the details right there.
Investment advisors are putting their "accredited clients" into this investment. Looks like an 8% commission.
However, nothing wrong with Reg D, idle capital sitting on the sidelines going to work in the marketplace creating jobs and opportunity. Usually high risk high reward.
Here you go, public records. Actually up to $32 million raised and filed for a new $37 million offering once they reach $35 million on the first one.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652459/000165245919000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml"

Thanks. Is there some technical/legal reason he can say it's all his money and there are no investors? Serious question.

#7070 54 days ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Thanks. Is there some technical/legal reason he can say it's all his money and there are no investors? Serious question.

Where did he ever say that? I don't get it either.

#7071 54 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Where did he ever say that? I don't get it either.

He said it in the recent Kaneda interview (which has been taken down I think). He was very adamant.

#7072 54 days ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Yeah same here. They missed the boat. If they had just released 1 pin in 2019 they would be on the map.
And while they don’t need to post or satisfy Pinside by any means, their communications are just horrible and complete garbage.
Meanwhile MOST of the reason Rick & Morty flew off the shelves is because of Scott. He continues to be the prime example of how to create new pinball in 2020. And he connects directly with his audience, something Deeproot has failed to do on any level.
I’ve yet to find anybody that has any issues with Scott & what he’s doing. Yet Deeproot is the complete opposite.
So yeah, if you don’t believe in the designer & company behind a pinball game, why the F would you ever be interested in buying one from them?
So yeah, the window for me being interested has long gone and past

They didn’t miss the boat. This was never about buyers, or enthusiasts, or even about getting JPOP fans whole. That was a wonderful side effect. But (if it’s all true) the recklessness of expenditure and the insane expectations make this all a fool’s errand. I don’t believe an attorney and insurance maven would expose himself so brazenly to such a money pit. This all smells foul. But what do I know? Maybe the other Deeproot-related ventures made a ton of money which needs to be Hollywood accounted for.

#7073 54 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Really? Seems the exact opposite to me. When Stern was basically solo the pricing was virtually flat. Now with 5-10 new players the pricing is in no way headed Down.

That’s because they are all basically boutique companies or startup companies. They are all competing in the higher end pricing. They all had to price their games higher to make up for less sales. Non are competing with Stern Pros. Stern saw we were willing to pay more so raised their prices.

#7074 54 days ago

I second hearing that. Can no longer find the evidence, but recall ‘100% my money’

I also fail to understand how investor money is his money.

Pinside is a sewer.

#7075 54 days ago

And yet none of this matters shit.

#7076 54 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Here you go, public records. Actually up to $32 million raised and filed for a new $37 million offering once they reach $35 million on the first one.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652459/000165245919000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml"

I see all that but am missing the part in the document that this $32 million is for their pinball fund.

#7077 54 days ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

They missed the boat.

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#7078 54 days ago

I’ll never understand Pinside’s fascination/obsession with other people’s money.

Who cares where DR is funded from? Unless you’re a direct investor, it doesn’t matter.

#7079 54 days ago
Quoted from Capn12:

I’ll never understand Pinside’s fascination/obsession with other people’s money.
Who cares where DR is funded from? Unless you’re a direct investor, it doesn’t matter.

As long as I get 2 playable pins I’m good.
Playable is a key word.

#7080 54 days ago

Aren’t they building a complete multi media company, where pinball is just one component?

Therefore the investments can be recouped in multiple verticals.

Silly to pretend we understand the full picture here.

With the talent they’ve assembled, and if they can ship half the hardware they’ve mentioned, this has huge potential.

I’m looking forward to TPF, and what shows up. Raza looks very promising, and I really liked the fact that they took consumer feedback on a prototype to figure out what needs to change.

My 2c

#7081 54 days ago
Quoted from Capn12:

I’ll never understand Pinside’s fascination/obsession with other people’s money.
Who cares where DR is funded from? Unless you’re a direct investor, it doesn’t matter.

Because when someone comes rollin in promising to turn water into wine... and give everyone a free golden goose.. you start asking questions about how all that is supposed to work.

Unless you just want to be the type of consumer that like to make big purchases on just blind faith...

#7082 54 days ago

Yeah you go into the R&M thread and it’s like an all night party.

You come here to the Deeproot thread and it’s a morgue.

#7083 54 days ago

All I know is I have read all of this from the start, and it has kind of been like a ok movie that I wanted to see the end in 90 minutes, but now it is like 5 hours long, and still keeping up, but getting old.

#7084 54 days ago
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#7085 54 days ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

He said it in the recent Kaneda interview (which has been taken down I think). He was very adamant.

That episode wasn’t taken down. K addressed it on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/1658587937736570/posts/2437503196511703?d=n&sfns=mo

#7086 54 days ago
Quoted from cjchand:

That episode wasn’t taken down. K addressed it on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/1658587937736570/posts/2437503196511703?d=n&sfns=mo

Actually, it was. Even the link that Chris posted doesn't work.

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#7087 54 days ago

It works fine from here (germany - maybe really a copyright issue)

https://m.soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot

#7088 54 days ago

https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot

This link works fine for me. If it doesn't work elsewhere I guess that must be region related... or, whatever.

Here as well:

https://podtail.com/en/podcast/kaneda-s-pinball-podcast/episode-420-robert-from-deeproot/

...or even here:

https://podbay.fm/podcast/1073821815/e/1574219787

53m25s RM talks about who is paying.

Also there is the Loser Kid podcast, they received a reply to some of their email questions, from RM:

https://soundcloud.com/loserkidpinballpodcast/ep-21-loserkid-emails-deeproot-robert-mueller-responds

They talk about the RM response re. "investment" starting around 13m30s.

#7089 54 days ago

I don't recall the quote where RM said it was his money and I don't really care. Assuming he did say it, I'm certain he was speaking figuratively as in, it was his money to spend on the company/investor's behalf.

#7090 54 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I don't recall the quote where RM said it was his money and I don't really care. Assuming he did say it, I'm certain he was speaking figuratively as in, it was his money to spend on the company/investor's behalf.

He clearly said "there are no investors, it's all my money". To me this is potentially a big deal because:

a. If there are investors then he is flat out lying in the most bold way possible and is subjecting himself to possible legal issues.
b. He is using some kind of "investor speak" which I really don't understand and wish someone could explain.
c. He is telling the truth and may be close to bankruptcy.

It's potentially a big deal because if I want to invest in one of their games (and that's why I'm in this thread to begin with), I want to know the company will be around to support it.

#7091 54 days ago

...or

d. He is "technically" the sole (pinball) "investor".

e. Other speculation

"Business" is full of designed in loopholes

Besides any of this, people seem to be missing the fact that if this was some other business playboy, that 30M give or take could have just as easily been blown on replacing the "old" yacht.

#7092 54 days ago

Maybe people donated $32 Million

#7093 54 days ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

It's potentially a big deal because if I want to invest in one of their games (and that's why I'm in this thread to begin with), I want to know the company will be around to support it.

That is a fair point but still let‘s wait with talking that problem to death until it actually becomes relevant.
That‘d be when the first game becomes available.

As an investor, if there are any, it‘d be dumb to stop cash flow at this point in time soon before the launch and a possible ROI.

So whatever is the financial background, it‘ll all rise or fall the with sales numbers you all are a part of.
Only the timing differs/ more money means a longer breath.

#7094 54 days ago

I remember the podcast quite well and I also noticed when he mentioned his own money and it was not investor money, thought this was a bit strange.

#7095 54 days ago
Quoted from russdx:

I remember the podcast quite well and I also noticed when he mentioned his own money and it was not investor money, thought this was a bit strange.

K-Man just reposted the original podcast

#7096 54 days ago

Anyone have a clue why Mr. mueller said that?
I’m out of my depth when it comes to investors and FTC rules.

#7097 54 days ago
Quoted from SmallyBells:

Anyone have a clue why Mr. mueller said that?
I’m out of my depth when it comes to investors and FTC rules.

Because he’s a showman and he knew we would keep busy picking it apart as if mattered. We are buying a game not being asked to buy shares of his company or individual employee of his company. IF he was taking deposits I would totally care about his financial position. As we are not I could care less if he was a Columbian drug lord on the side.

#7098 54 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Because he’s a showman and he knew we would keep busy picking it apart as if mattered. We are buying a game not being asked to buy shares of his company or individual employee of his company. IF he was taking deposits I would totally care about his financial position. As we are not I could care less if he was a Columbian drug lord on the side.

Pablooooooo....

#7099 54 days ago

A lot of us are watching NFL football today. Most of the owners are rich A holes. Yet we still watch and love NFL football. The product is all that matters in the end to most. I try to take all emotion out of my monetary purchases. Quality....features....gameplay...art. Repeat.

#7100 54 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

I see all that but am missing the part in the document that this $32 million is for their pinball fund.

See the address? That’s where pinball headquarters and manufacturing are

The prospectus? What else do you think these people are throwing money at?

It would make sense if there was more. I’m thinking the Utah group has something to do with both pinball and non pinball

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