(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

1 year ago



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There are 3415 posts in this topic. You are on page 14 of 69.
#651 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm hardly a Heighway cheerleader, my frustrations are pretty public, but there are over 100 Aliens shipped, and however many Full Throttles, maybe less than that, but still a real game you could actually play. The company is struggling, their communication sucks, they're constantly digging out of the hole Andrew left them, and I'm not blaming anyone for being frustrated with them too. But games have shipped, the code is real (that's a big one), I don't think they belong next to vaporware.

It's not that I want anyone to get boned, I have friends who lost money with Jpop. But I have a tough love approach to it personally. People took a risk, they got conned, and they lost their money. It sucks. For most people it wasn't a huge sum, but legit thousands. I just don't really think the lesson should be "don't worry, someone will bail you out" and then Jpop gets to have a job again. He should never get to work in the industry again, instead of being enabled. That's my perspective at least.
I'm not losing sleep over it, and if someone is crazy enough to try and take on his debt and make his customers whole I can't be mad about that part. I hope it turns out well.

Can’t argue with any of that .

#652 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Can’t argue with any of that .

whats the point of being on pinside if you arent going to argue

40
#653 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I just don't really think the lesson should be "don't worry, someone will bail you out" and then Jpop gets to have a job again. He should never get to work in the industry again, instead of being enabled. That's my perspective at least.

I think it is natural to have this perspective without the facts. However you have no idea what is going on behind the curtains. JPOP is not getting a free ride. He is not getting bailed out. He is not being enabled. And he is not getting an amazing compensation package that our other designers enjoy. The price he has paid and will continue to pay will be stiff. He knows it and still is committed to seeing things through. He does not need support or forgeiveness. He needs to finish what he promised. Period. And I am making sure he (at the end of the day) does just that. In fact, this last visit we had some tough love talks about several design issues. It wasn’t pleasant at all.

So, where is it right for anyone (especially someone who has no stake in the Zidware mess) to dictate whether someone has a right to right wrongs, finish what was promised, pay hard punishments, or be employed or involved in an passionate, diverse industry...all with no stake in an outcome and little to no real knowledge of what the facts really are?

—Robert dT

-12
#654 1 year ago

That is complete bullshit and you know it Kim.

Aurich has been very up front and straight forward with the trials and tribulations he has had as a currently still not paid contractor.

Despite your immature attacks against him, he is a pretty cool guy to have put up with all your bullshit over the years and still here trying to help and provide something positive. Just Fing can it for once with your constant hardon for him. It makes you look sad and frankyly it is about time to get over the petty shit that is now years old.

#655 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Just Fing can it for once with your constant hardon for him.

Speaking of hardons for people.

#656 1 year ago

Did you change your avatar because of the Hilton Hoodie?

#657 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm hardly a Heighway cheerleader, my frustrations are pretty public, but there are over 100 Aliens shipped, and however many Full Throttles, maybe less than that, but still a real game you could actually play. The company is struggling, their communication sucks, they're constantly digging out of the hole Andrew left them, and I'm not blaming anyone for being frustrated with them too. But games have shipped, the code is real (that's a big one), I don't think they belong next to vaporware.

It's not that I want anyone to get boned, I have friends who lost money with Jpop. But I have a tough love approach to it personally. People took a risk, they got conned, and they lost their money. It sucks. For most people it wasn't a huge sum, but legit thousands. I just don't really think the lesson should be "don't worry, someone will bail you out" and then Jpop gets to have a job again. He should never get to work in the industry again, instead of being enabled. That's my perspective at least.
I'm not losing sleep over it, and if someone is crazy enough to try and take on his debt and make his customers whole I can't be mad about that part. I hope it turns out well.

I rarely disagree with your perspective, but on this.. Sure, those who got burnt may not even notice the money gone, but they still need to be made whole. If it takes managing jPoop, so be it.

#658 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Did you change your avatar because of the Hilton Hoodie?

I changed my avatar for dog reasons.

#659 1 year ago

No one needs to defend me to Kim, he can whine into the void, I don't see it, and I don't care. Thanks, but don't bother.

Quoted from Roostking:

Sure, those who got burnt me get not even notice the money gone, but they still need to be made whole.

Why? Why do they need to be made whole? Again, I'm happy for them if they get something. I don't wish anyone ill. Ice and I used to argue, far as I'm concerned we're cool now, I hope he gets a game out of all this and loves it, I'm not petty about it or anything. I don't want to play it, but whatever. I'd knock back whiskeys with him any night and we could argue about it like old times until we were drunk and didn't care any more.

But they took a risk with a crazy loon who promised the moon. I got downvoted to hell and back for telling people it was dumb to give him money. No one wanted to hear it. I'm not gloating about it, and I wasn't the only one saying it, but let's be real. It was a legit risk, and life burns you sometimes when you take a risk. Sucks for the people, but pinball as a whole would probably be healthier if that was more straight forward and people thought twice. Play with fire, get burned, be more careful next time.

That's just my opinion on it. I suspect most people wouldn't agree, and that's ok. I think it sucks that in 2018 we're still talking about Jpop, and he's still working in pinball, and that's my take. If anyone doesn't like it, well, that's life.

#660 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That is complete bullshit and you know it Kim.
Aurich has been very up front and straight forward with the trials and tribulations he has had as a currently still not paid contractor.
Despite your immature attacks against him, he is a pretty cool guy to have put up with all your bullshit over the years and still here trying to help and provide something positive. Just Fing can it for once with your constant hardon for him. It makes you look sad and frankyly it is about time to get over the petty shit that is now years old.

Smh

15
#661 1 year ago
Quoted from deeproot:

In fact, this last visit we had some tough love talks about several design issues.

lol. Jpop being Jpop.

Quoted from deeproot:

It wasn’t pleasant at all.

I do appreciate when a good ass-kicking is dispensed.

#662 1 year ago
Quoted from deeproot:

think it is natural to have this perspective without the facts.

Regardless of anything, Robert...thanks for coming here with an update. I hope everyone gets a machine or refund. I'm keeping an open mind.

#663 1 year ago

The mind is now open!

openminded (resized).jpg
openminded2 (resized).jpg

#664 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'd knock back whiskeys with him any night and we could argue about it like old times until we were drunk and didn't care any more.

I don't think this is how whiskey works.

#665 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I think it sucks that in 2018 we're still talking about Jpop, and he's still working in pinball, and that's my take. If anyone doesn't like it, well, that's life.

If we weren't still talking about JPop in 2018, then a lot of people who had skin in the game would be getting absolutely nothing. Again, as long as deeproot keeps their word, a lot of people will get something out of the whole fiasco. Would it have been your preference for JPop to completely vanish and those people to get nothing?

#666 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Would it have been your preference for JPop to completely vanish and those people to get nothing?

that is exactly what he is saying, he thinks people who made a bad decision should have to live with losing their money.

#667 1 year ago

The possible difference this time is that John always needed somebody to ride his ass, organize and channel him towards progress

Maybe DR can do it. And John’s massive ego surely has been taken down a peg or two

My feeling is John will do anything to restore some semblance of his pinball legacy. If DR can get MG, AIW and RAZA out AND they work and play great then I can see John going back into strut mode

It’s been a LONG journey and we got a long ways to go

-15
#668 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Would it have been your preference for JPop to completely vanish and those people to get nothing?

Yes. I thought I made that pretty clear.

Again, nothing personal to Ice, my friends who got burned, or anyone else. But I think natural selection should have taken its course on this one.

If Robert wants to start a pinball company, more power to him. I know from personal experience that it's not easy. Starting with a big dumb weight around your neck strikes me as very stupid. Why even dig that hole?

Do I want his company to fail? No. He's hired David Thiel, who's my friend, and I wish him nothing but luck. But I don't respect his choice, and I'm fine with just saying it.

Quoted from InfiniteLives:

that is exactly what he is saying, he thinks people who made a bad decision should have to live with losing their money.

I do. Is that so terrible? They gambled, they lost, so it goes. No one (hopefully) put up money they couldn't afford to lose, they weren't spending their 401k or kids' college funds.

Obviously the better outcome would have been John not being a fuckup, a liar, and a thief, and they all got cool limited games. But he was, they didn't, and that's how that ball rolled.

Pinball is hard. If John had just been honest, if he hadn't ponzi schemed, if he hadn't been an asshole who wanted to reinvent backbox hinges before flipping games then I'd say sure, let's forgive. He overreached and it failed. It happens all the times with Kickstarters for instance. But we know he was deceptive and shifty, and I say throw him in the lake of fire and walk away.

#669 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

The mind is now open!

anthony-hopkins-openyourmind (resized).jpg

#670 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

They gambled, they lost, so it goes.

Do you think the majority of the people who gave money really felt like they were "gambling"? The community took him on good faith that he would produce pinball machines. We didn't have a whole slew of failed attempts at that time to learn from. It's not like they walked up to a roulette table and placed it on red knowing the risks. If I am not mistaken, the whole idea of crowdfunding was still pretty early on at that time (at least from a mainstream viewpoint).

Sure, anyone today who gives a large sum of money to start a pinball company is crazy - the community has learned from it's mistakes.

Despite his explanations I still don't get why Robert brought Jpop on with all his baggage, but I am thrilled that those who were out money may still get something in the end. From my viewpoint I will tolerate Jpop still being around if those who invested aren't left high and dry.

#671 1 year ago

I'm happy that people are getting their money back, and I really don't care that Jpop is going to work in pinball again. There were a lot of people who, at the time, were skeptical about giving that cat any moolah. Just didn't seem like a good idea to many.

#672 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Do you think the majority of the people who gave money really felt like they were "gambling"?

That's not the right question, the question is, were they? And the answer is yes. If they thought they weren't, well that's kind of the point I'm trying to make really.

Quoted from tamoore:

There were a lot of people who, at the time, were skeptical about giving that cat any moolah. Just didn't seem like a good idea to many.

For good reason. This isn't a "no one could have possibly seen this!" situation. I'm not trying to victim shame anyone. Just being honest. There were plenty of rational voices then, saying the same things. People chose to ignore it, as is their prerogative, and it didn't end well.

I hit a pothole badly last year, cost me $4k. F&$*ing run flat tires and new rims weren't cheap. Sucks, but shit happens. My own damn fault for buying a pricey car instead of practical one. I knew that when I paid for it, so I sucked it up, that the cost was on me and my choices. Ain't nobody to be mad at but myself really.

#673 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Do you think the majority of the people who gave money really felt like they were "gambling"? The community took him on good faith that he would produce pinball machines. We didn't have a whole slew of failed attempts at that time to learn from. It's not like they walked up to a roulette table and placed it on red knowing the risks. If I am not mistaken, the whole idea of crowdfunding was still pretty early on at that time (at least from a mainstream viewpoint).

Being uninformed doesn't absolve the clear and obvious risks people took. If those risks were 'clear and obvious'... then that's on the person for not doing any homework before forking out thousands.

People were over eager and FOMO was in full effect. And JPOP was not sold as 'crowd funding' it was sold as "I'm going to give you this amazing dream... for $16k"

26
#674 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If Robert wants to start a pinball company, more power to him. I know from personal experience that it's not easy.

You were a contract employee working from your home in California to do the artwork, for a company in the United Kingdom. What was your most difficult task, getting up on stage at Expo with Andrew Heighway?

I've seen you hint and mislead at so many different things over the years concerning your role with Heighway. You made it seem as if you did everything in the company except the artwork. And now you're hinting and pretending about this? - What could you possibly know about bootstrapping this company from your cozy chair in California? ...I mean, besides a phone call from Andrew crying the end is near.

Quoted from Aurich:

I do. Is that so terrible? They gambled, they lost, so it goes.

Is this how you also feel toward all of the Alien people that are being jerked around by Heighway after trusting you and your blatant sales pitching here? Were Heighway customers fully informed of future events as you seem to have been with Jpop?

And recently you've begun crying victim on Pinside because you have never been paid by Heighway. My, oh my, looks like you were duped and are no better than any of us.

You sit in judgment of the Jpop people and yet you trusted Andrew Heighway and you encouraged others to do the same. Unbelievable.

#675 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Unbelievable.

Not to me

#676 1 year ago

You hit a pothole on accident, I assume. In your control, mostly.

I trusted jpop would deliver his product . Out of my control, mostly.

Two totally different things.

-2
#677 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

You hit a pothole on accident, I assume. In your control, mostly.
I trusted jpop would deliver his product . Out of my control, mostly.
Two totally different things.

No sense grading your level of mistakes. Buying any game from JPOP was a HUGE gamble. Which would you rather be in the pic below?

IMG_0155.GIF

Deeproot is a different company and they are offering to credit Zidware customers towards one of their games, once revealed. Whether that is a good deal is a matter for personal reflection.

#678 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

You hit a pothole on accident, I assume. In your control, mostly.

Wouldn't car insurance cover it ? Comprehensive ? Minus deductible.

LTG : )

#679 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Wouldn't car insurance cover it ? Comprehensive ? Minus deductible.
LTG : )

You broke the story first Lloyd. Aurich is an illegal.

-14
#680 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

You hit a pothole on accident, I assume. In your control, mostly.
I trusted jpop would deliver his product . Out of my control, mostly.
Two totally different things.

You missed the point. The pothole is a shit happens thing, accident, could have avoided, whatever. If I didn't drive a stupid car it would have been cheap to fix. It was expensive because I paid the BMW tax. I knew when I bought the car that things wouldn't be cheap, so I couldn't be mad when the bill came due. I was an adult and dealt with the decision that got me there. You need to be an adult and realize you took a risk with sending money to an utterly unproven business man, who screwed you, and you lost it. Trusting him wasn't smart, just own it.

Whatever, I'm tired of arguing about it so bitter people can down vote me. Deeproot will do whatever they do. I'm bored with talking about it. Good luck everyone.

13
#681 1 year ago

I mentioned "two totally different things."

Why so sensitive over that? Or are you always sensitive if someone disagrees with you?

I just was pointing out a poor analogy, IMHO, nothing else.
Your opinion is not the only opinion. You may want to check yourself sometime for an ego that gets out of place here once in awhile.

By the way, I did "own it", the mistake of believing in jpop at the time, a good while ago.

Hopefully one day I can be in your "adult" club with you.

Carry on.

#682 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

They gambled, they lost, so it goes.

Quoted from Aurich:

Good luck everyone.

... Heh.

#683 1 year ago

Trusting Jpop was stupid in hindsight

I own it and cut my pmts off early on

I fully paid for TBL though because you bought in that expo Aurich with those Dutch dipshits

Thank the lord Philgate happened shortly thereafter

We all should own our stupid mistakes. I have no problem with it.

As for Alien, only have $1500 into that shitshow

Fast forward, nobody is getting Fed on pre pay model anymore. So that’s a good thing

Live and learn

#684 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Trusting Jpop was stupid in hindsight
I own it and cut my pmts off early on
I fully paid for TBL though because you bought in that expo Aurich with those Dutch dipshits
Thank the lord Philgate happened shortly thereafter
We all should own our stupid mistakes. I have no problem with it.
As for Alien, only have $1500 into that shitshow
Fast forward, nobody is getting Fed on pre pay model anymore. So that’s a good thing
Live and learn

wait, what was Philgate?

#685 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

wait, what was Philgate?

a bunch of people got lucky when Phil left the company , apparently he saw some things that he didn't agree with & a lot of people got Paypal refunds that were not requested nor expected .... some of those people stayed out & some went back in that's basically the synopsis of of it

16
#686 1 year ago

You know, only thing I can add to all this...

Right now I have the same thing I did when I sent my initial deposit to Jpop in February of 2012. Nothing.
(but a fuggin' t-shirt that my man Buddy had to bring back to me)

Except now, ... I have an offer from someone 6 YEARS later, to give me a settlement and TWO pinball machines? SHIT YEAH!
I got nothing but time to see what happens.
Godspeed Deeproot.

#687 1 year ago

What was the total price on RAZA? I'm filling out the proof of claim form for Deeproot and I don't know what to put in for the "amount I still owe Zidware" field. Doesn't it only matter how much I've put in thus far?

I paid in $4995, so what do I put in the still owe field?

#688 1 year ago

10 grand

#689 1 year ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I paid in $4995, so what do I put in the still owe field?

RAZA total was $9995, so you would still "owe" $5000.

#690 1 year ago
Quoted from vulture:

RAZA total was $9995, so you would still "owe" $5000.

I knew it was essentially $10K, but didn't remember the exact number. With all the grief I've been through on this ride, I'm not paying a cent more than needed. I'll keep that extra $5 thank you...

#691 1 year ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I knew it was essentially $10K, but didn't remember the exact number. With all the grief I've been through on this ride, I'm not paying a cent more than needed. I'll keep that extra $5 thank you...

But If you pay $5 to get to $5000, it gives you significantly more benefit in the deeproot deal if I remember right. Worth it if you're in this deep already, IMO. $5 is nothing.

#692 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

IMO. $5 is nothing.

Could I have $5k please?

#693 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Could I have $5k please?

Well, $5k is quite different than $5.

#694 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

But If you pay $5 to get to $5000, it gives you significantly more benefit in the deeproot deal if I remember right. Worth it if you're in this deep already, IMO. $5 is nothing.

I was joking, in regards to specifying how much I still "owe" to Zidware (total price of $10K vs $9995).

But you are correct that if I pay in another $5.00 I qualify for a deeproot machine.

#695 1 year ago

FA7CFA1F-4098-48F2-9D9A-D20B4253AA8B (resized).jpeg

#696 1 year ago

Not sure what’s scarier - JPop with a light saber (cattle prod?!?) or the height of his pants.

#697 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Not sure what’s scarier - JPop with a light saber (cattle prod?!?) or the height of his pants.

Its a JPOOP designed, Deep-root funded probe! It comes in LE too..

#698 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Not sure what’s scarier - JPop with a light saber (cattle prod?!?) or the height of his pants.

Or the need for a manzier. Geez...

#699 1 year ago

Who is she?

-5
#700 1 year ago

If you're going to make fun of John, I'd appreciate you *not* using a picture I took to do so...

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