Quoted from ralphcousman:I think people will get their Rick and morty pins before Deeproot releases 1 pin
And buy the time DR releases their highly touted 80s theme, we will be well into the 2020s.
(Topic ID: 203700)
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I'm still deeply rooting for deeproot. I hope RAZA is released soon and that others follow in its path. It a great time for pinball, and I think it will be short-lived. Get in while the gettin's good!
Quoted from 6S3NC3:I remember getting in on BHZA in the beginning. I even flew into Chicago and visited John and he showed me mind blowing things and art that would make any pin jealous.
I had a similar experience, and honestly I'm embarassed 7 years later about the drooling fanboy post I made after my visit to Zidware. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpops-magic-girl-and-zombie-adventure-shop-tour#post-530376
Quoted from 6S3NC3:Then he took me/us for our money. IF deeproot gave me 2x my money with a 50% off coupon i would not touch this thing with a 10 foot poll. Nothing close to the hopes and dreams he had.
Just curious, not trying to stir up trouble here, but you didn't take the deal from Deeproot to get 100% credit for the money you lost to Jpop, or you sued Jpop and are ineligible?
I'm asking because personally I'm going to take the damn "free" machine Robert's offering to compensate me for the $'s I lost to Jpop and forget about all the sad bullshit I went through with John.
Boerne, TX
Quoted from doghouse:I had a similar experience, and honestly I'm embarassed 7 years later about the drooling fanboy post I made after my visit to Zidware. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpops-magic-girl-and-zombie-adventure-shop-tour#post-530376
Just curious, not trying to stir up trouble here, but you didn't take the deal from Deeproot to get 100% credit for the money you lost to Jpop, or you sued Jpop and are ineligible?
I'm asking because personally I'm going to take the damn "free" machine Robert's offering to compensate me for the $'s I lost to Jpop and forget about all the sad bullshit I went through with John.
I took the "free credit". Although it doesn't feel free and i don't really care about the $$$.
I want DR to succeed due to everything that is on the line with investors and people's jobs.
But Jpop seems like a fraud. RAZA reveal was not what i envisioned 5 yrs ago. Still seems undone.
It's been how long since his last game? Pinball in 2019 has left him behind. He has extremely LIMITED capabilities. Unlike BW in the day, it doesn't look like even DR can save him.
Quoted from iceman44:I took the "free credit". Although it doesn't feel free and i don't really care about the $$$.
Yeah, it doesn't feel like free unless you kissed the money goodbye years and years ago like I did. Then it kinda feels "free". 
Quoted from iceman44:I want DR to succeed due to everything that is on the line with investors and people's jobs.
Absolutely. If they don't succeed it'll just be plain depressing. All that wasted talent, time and resources.... And there are dozens of factors that could cause Deeproot not to succeed as a company. The top three in my opinion: 1. The initial games are full of lots of Jpop-inspired "stuff," but just aren't any fun to play. The videos I've seen on-line of the RAZA prototypes worried me a little. Until we see/play the finished games the jury is still out. 2. The company has spent too much on start-up and can't sell enough games to recoup before they just run out of money. 3. They just can't get the hardest part right-- i.e. manufacturing the actual games.
Quoted from iceman44:But Jpop seems like a fraud. RAZA reveal was not what i envisioned 5 yrs ago. Still seems undone.
Yeah, Jpop really does seem like a fraud. In my worldview he would now have a much different reputation if he had just admitted in public that he screwed up and didn't have any business running a company. And if he had ever apologized to ANYONE. Which to the best of my knowledge, he never has. We as human beings tend to be VERY forgiving of those that sincerely admit they screwed-up. And because Jpop never did this he will always seem to people like us, who he screwed, a true asshole and fraud.
Quoted from iceman44:It's been how long since his last game?
zizzle10 (resized).jpg
Düsseldorf
Quoted from razorsedge:I think O-din was refering to something other than TNA.
Then he was wrong. 
Quoted from doghouse:I had a similar experience, and honestly I'm embarassed 7 years later about the drooling fanboy post I made after my visit to Zidware. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpops-magic-girl-and-zombie-adventure-shop-tour#post-530376
Just curious, not trying to stir up trouble here, but you didn't take the deal from Deeproot to get 100% credit for the money you lost to Jpop, or you sued Jpop and are ineligible?
I'm asking because personally I'm going to take the damn "free" machine Robert's offering to compensate me for the $'s I lost to Jpop and forget about all the sad bullshit I went through with John.
Yeah Sad people need to let it go. Offers made that weren’t required, people had choices, move on.
This shit is old. If you don’t like J-Pop, lick your nuts and move on with life like you did when a bee stung you. If you don’t want a DP pin, lots of other pins coming out - go there and get one.
But if you DGAFOS about what happened prior to DP and like J-Pop pins, hang out and get a potentially great pin
Quoted from doghouse:Yeah, it doesn't feel like free unless you kissed the money goodbye years and years ago like I did. Then it kinda feels "free".
Absolutely. If they don't succeed it'll just be plain depressing. All that wasted talent, time and resources.... And there are dozens of factors that could cause Deeproot not to succeed as a company. The top three in my opinion: 1. The initial games are full of lots of Jpop-inspired "stuff," but just aren't any fun to play. The videos I've seen on-line of the RAZA prototypes worried me a little. Until we see/play the finished games the jury is still out. 2. The company has spent too much on start-up and can't sell enough games to recoup before they just run out of money. 3. They just can't get the hardest part right-- i.e. manufacturing the actual games.
Yeah, Jpop really does seem like a fraud. In my worldview he would now have a much different reputation if he had just admitted in public that he screwed up and didn't have any business running a company. And if he had ever apologized to ANYONE. Which to the best of my knowledge, he never has. We as human beings tend to be VERY forgiving of those that sincerely admit they screwed-up. And because Jpop never did this he will always seem to people like us, who he screwed, a true asshole and fraud.
If DP doesn’t have all the markings of a Ponzi scheme, I don’t know what does.
1. Instead of Jpop messing with early adopters money: DP instead is messing with investors money. To date not Manufactering a thing, except showing an old prototype that was probably mostly done when JPop began working on RAZA 8 years ago. Can’t believe that is all they have to show for DPs 5 years of effort.
2. Working on a dozen prototypes, instead of trying to get game one done and out the door is very fishy. How can any company survive, pay all those people and building/buisness overhead and keep their head above water??? It makes zero sense in the world of business, unless investor money is just being burned through: which appears to be almost reckless abandon.
3. They had to show something to satisfy investors, so they showed a prototype game and pushed launch date back again. To date, there has only been Robert shooting his mouth off about how DP will change the industry. And now, saying he is losing interest in pinball, which smacks of a Ponzi scheme running out of things to tell people. All the while, putting their money into the hype train chain letter.
We in the pinball world are willing to believe DP is going to change pinball for the better, because DP promises more pinball, quality, etc.; all for less money. Seems to good to be true. We will find out next year, end of March, unless they move the date again.
Quoted from ralphcousman:I think people will get their Rick and morty pins before Deeproot releases 1 pin
Agree. I also think Stern will release 6 more games before you can get a Deeproot
Quoted from fosaisu:Did you get the cash back from deeproot?
Nope, just didnt care/follow what was going on. Waste of my time.
Edit: I was not paid in full
Saturday I was playing Jurrasic Park Black Knight Munsters Iron Man and Dead Pool all standing in 1 row in that order @flipperhalle Berlin. Solid stuff but the magic is missing. Prototype 7 years in the making....guees Ill ship the money when orderbook is open.
Quoted from Makakka:Saturday I was playing Jurrasic Park Black Knight Munsters Iron Man and Dead Pool all standing in 1 row in that order @flipperhalle Berlin. Solid stuff but the magic is missing. Prototype 7 years in the making....guees Ill ship the money when orderbook is open.
Exactly how I feel about most of the new offerings.
The magic is missing.
Makes me think about movies and entertainment in general.
Popular doesn't mean it has longevity.
Music, film and art that stands the test of time.
It's very difficult.
William's dream team got it right a lot.
But not every time lol, there were many throw away games.
Only very few of the recent offerings over the last 10 years, I think will do this.
JJP WOZ (27" monitor) and Hobbit (incredible audio) I think (ground breaking at the time), and maybe a couple others.
Quoted from pinballinreno:The magic is missing
It's called low risk design, and save as much money as you can. About the only exception as of late is Keith Elwin's games.
Pretty much every Stern is an Italian bottom, very few have a 3rd or 4th flipper.
Pretty much every Stern (maybe all of them) from the last 8 years all have a ramp on each side that returns to the inlane.
Franchi told a story about the making of munsters. Borg had a mech he really wanted in the game, Gary told him to take it out. He started ripping everything out of the prototype and chucked the matchbox car across the room out of frustration.
Quoted from toyotaboy:It's called low risk, cost savings.
Pretty much every Stern is an Italian bottom, very few have a 3rd or 4th flipper.
Pretty much every Stern (maybe all of them) from the last 8 years all have a ramp on each side that returns to the inlane.
Franchi told a story about the making of munsters. Borg had a mech he really wanted in the game, Gary told him to take it out. He started ripping everything out of the prototype and chucked the matchbox car across the room out of frustration.
I think we want innovative gameplay that somehow matches the theme.
The game should feel like you are a part of the world under glass.
It's a tall order.
I agree it's a risk.
Stern can retheme most of their games and no one would notice.
They would still make a good return on route.
They know this.
Quoted from pinballinreno:JJP WOZ (27" monitor) and Hobbit (incredible audio) I think (ground breaking at the time), and maybe a couple others.
I'll take JP3 and DP over these two all day every day forever.
Man more Italian bottoms here than a gay dating site in Rome.
You guys say you want “innovation” but what you really mean is “gimmicks.”
Gimmicks don’t generally make for good games, especially when you are talking about layouts. That’s why they are gimmicks.
Quoted from 6S3NC3:Edit: I was not paid in full
Why not?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Man more Italian bottoms here than a gay dating site in Rome.
You guys say you want “innovation” but what you really mean is “gimmicks.”
Gimmicks don’t generally make for good games, especially when you are talking about layouts. That’s why they are gimmicks.
Which horrible gimmicks are you referring to? The Castle in mm, with its gate and draw bridge? The power pf on tz? The genie and lamp from totan? The supercharger on hs2? I'm with you. These games would be so much better if Gary was in charge and pulled then all. Every game could be like bk3. Pintopia!
Quoted from Tranquilize:Which horrible gimmicks are you referring to? The Castle in mm, with its gate and draw bridge? The power pf on tz? The genie and lamp from totan? The supercharger on hs2? I'm with you. These games would be so much better if Gary was in charge and pulled then all. Every game could be like bk3. Pintopia!
Please. NO game should Ever be like BK3!
Quoted from Tranquilize:Which horrible gimmicks are you referring to?
He never said "horrible"...
Quoted from toyotaboy:Pretty much every Stern (maybe all of them) from the last 8 years all have a ramp on each side that returns to the inlane.
BK3?
Quoted from Tranquilize:Which horrible gimmicks are you referring to? The Castle in mm, with its gate and draw bridge? The power pf on tz? The genie and lamp from totan? The supercharger on hs2? I'm with you. These games would be so much better if Gary was in charge and pulled then all. Every game could be like bk3. Pintopia!
I hate the lamp, and by hate I mean hate. It's a total flow killer, serves limited purposes and it knocks the eyes like a dead pixel on a tv screen.
This is why I did not buy the rick and morty hype. I believe these game designers have designs already made up. Then the slap a theme on them. I doubt that haunted house party had a license for rick and morty at the start of development. So if there’s a working white wood and you just need to “theme” it makes good business sense however in that game the playfield misses big time for me.
Having a theme integrated to the mechs is the way to go and designing theme and table at the same time should work out for the best, you hope. Which I think dp is trying to do.
Quoted from pinballinreno:I think we want innovative gameplay that somehow matches the theme.
The game should feel like you are a part of the world under glass.
It's a tall order.
I agree it's a risk.
Stern can retheme most of their games and no one would notice.
They would still make a good return on route.
They know this.
Quoted from ralphcousman:I doubt that haunted house party had a license for rick and morty at the start of development
Scott has confirmed that he knew it was going to be R&M when he started the design.
Pins were designed the way you described in the past... and some old school guys still do it that way.. but theme is such a big part of the game now it's normally part of the early concept.
Today has to be a dark day for Deeproot...Punny Factory is about to decimate the market after being revealed yesterday.
But in all seriousness, that clown in Canada just brought a finished game to market in a fraction of the time it has taken Robert and his dream team to show us a half finished Jpop retread.
Quoted from JodyG:Today has to be a dark day for Deeproot...Punny Factory is about to decimate the market after being revealed yesterday.
But in all seriousness, that clown in Canada just brought a finished game to market in a fraction of the time it has taken Robert and his dream team to show us a half finished Jpop retread.
I had to read up on this as this is the first I have seen anything about it. Interesting concept, wonder what the other established manufacturers think.
Quoted from Drewscruis:Interesting concept, wonder what the other established manufacturers think.
A street level game based on puns for $6K or more? I would say that the established manufacturers aren't thinking about it at all.
Quoted from JodyG:But in all seriousness, that clown in Canada just brought a finished game to market in a fraction of the time it has taken Robert and his dream team to show us a half finished Jpop retread.
I totally agree. And that's why I believe being 'lean' in manufacturing is heaps better than just throwing a bunch of money at pinball ideas and pinball people. When you have to pay the bills with actual operational income like Charlie Emery did, you don't screw around.
So many errors in Pinball Adventures 1, what made them think a game based on spelling would be a good idea?
Sweet!
Spurned into action by Punny Factory, the countdown clock is plugged back in. Looks like a solid program, especially the Tex Mex lunch.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:An all day launch event for pinball machines?
That seems excessive.
I think that's pinball machine. Singular.
The list of who qualifies lists the usual assortment of pinheads, this doesn't exactly transcend outside the hobby. Mostly everyone there would be already familiar with RAZA. Maybe first time hands-on, but that would also be accomplished at TPF (which has its own VIP room).
But hey, why not BUILD A CUSTOM THEATER and host an ALL DAY event, because who cares about the money?
Screen Shot 2019-12-20 at 5.24.16 PM (resized).png
Quoted from frolic:The list of who qualifies lists the usual assortment of pinheads,
Well I'm definitely an "Other".
Don't understand why I didn't get my invitation yet ?
Must be delayed in the holiday mail.
LTG : )
Quoted from Yelobird:Please. NO game should Ever be like BK3!
You can finally cut loose and tell us what you *really* think now that you sold that boat anchor! 
Quoted from frolic:The list of who qualifies lists the usual assortment of pinheads
I couldn't find "Zidware Customer" anywhere on the list?
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:An all day launch event for pinball machines?
That seems excessive.
Well... it is the whole companys Launch from top to bottom so I see what they're doing there.
Still a lot though. RAZA itself presented within 105 minutes!
Propably too much but that 1 - 2 Minute Stern Videos have no real beef either.
"This invitation-only event will feature the long-anticipated launch of the deeproot Pinball company after several years of safeguarded R&D."
I am really gunning for them to release a great game, but they REALLY need a constomer relations officer that knows what the fuck is going on in the world of pinball. They are so damned presumptious that I wouldn't go to that event if I lived next door and they fed me for free. Damn.. How do they screw EVERYTHING up? It's baffling.
Quoted from John_I:Wake me up when they have a game announced that had absolutely nothing to do with Jpop...
Announced it they have.
Quoted from jimwe5t:RAZA...
On Wednesday March 25, 2020, deeproot Pinball is hosting a day long launch event starting at 8:55am Central.
What better way to create fake demand than hold an invitation only event nobody really wants to go to anyways. :p
Quoted from f3honda4me:What better way to create fake demand than hold an invitation only event nobody really wants to go to anyways. :p
That's presumptuous. Let me "assume" that you have nothing invested in this.
The pinball landscape is changing, lots of releases coming before Deep Root releases their first pin. I am still withholding judgement I don’t think their prototype in Texas was bad, better they showed a pin that people can play then a bunch of people buying Stranger Things or Rick and Morty without ever playing it or seeing it in the wild. I get those are huge themes for people but too many people in this hobby buy sight unseen.
Play all the ones that come out, see what you like and buy one. Who knows it may be Deeproot you like in the end.
It’s a shame that Deeproot bragged so much and offended so many people making outrageous claims, because now their delays and issues is a stark contrast to all the releases happening right now. I think people could have respected them more if they grew like Spooky building up credibility after pins showing ever increasing complexity and compelling themes. Quietly growing a fan base, no outrageous claims or false bravado. Good for Spooky on Rick and Morty...I still hope for Deeproot to make something happen.
If Magic girl comes out soon after RAZA who knows.
The industry pushes each other when multiple companies compete for customers.
Quoted from Richthofen:Deeproot pinball's website appears to have launched. I'm probably not VIP enough to get info.
https://deeprootpinball.com/
So this is an announcement of an announcement coming in three months.
Quoted from RCA1:So this is an announcement of an announcement coming in three months.
No.
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