(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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#6501 6 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I am truly rooting for Deeproot. As pinball collectors and enthusiasts, we should ALL be pulling for them. More pinball companies equal better options, further innovation, and potentially even pricing wars.

Yeah, I’ve been hearing this since JJP entered the fray. Which, incidentally, is when prices started rise in leaps and bounds, a trend which has continued unabated. More pinball companies = higher prices apparently.

#6502 6 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

He knew I made them. I didn’t take it personally, the environment was not great for video capture. I do wish I’d brought streaming gear, but that’s not as simple as it sounds. For example, how do you get permission to stream from the conference and the attendees? Plus the internet situation in there was poor, which made even uploading cellphone footage difficult. I captured the videos in 4K but they ended up very low res when sent over iMessage. Even when I got back to the room and sent them to YouTube they only went over as 1080.

Your video made the best efforts, really.

I wouldn't take it personal since he "trashed" the situation in general, as everyone.
In addition that'd also go to Robert, since he's to "blame" that there is no proper video.

#6504 6 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Your video made the best efforts, really.
I wouldn't take it personal since he "trashed" the situation in general, as everyone.
In addition that'd also go to Robert, since he's to "blame" that there is no proper video.

I tried to be still, do it landscape, and capture the DMD as well as the playfield. All without getting in people’s personal space, lol

#6505 6 months ago
Quoted from cjchand:

I get your overall point, but BOM is not COGS. The BOM is the Bill of *Materials*. It is a component of COGS.
The point of my question was to “guestimate” what percentage of COGS the BOM was. If the BOM is an overwhelmingly large part, then it comes down to process and efficiencies in manufacturing, design, back office, etc.
Again, we’re all talking out of our asses here, but that’s Pinside’s stock-in-trade
PS: Hook ‘em!

Not that this wasn't a dead-end conversation to begin with, but after listening to the Kaneda interview, it's clear that "value" doesn't mean "value priced". Am I mis-remembering the "Ferrari for a Kia's price" line of talk from Robert?

Since Robert was not happy people were thinking RAZA needed to be priced at/below Stern Pro pricing, my armchair financing exercise is even less pointless than when I started.

So, what shall we all argue about now?

#6506 6 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I tried to be still, do it landscape, and capture the DMD as well as the playfield. All without getting in people’s personal space, lol

Even James Cameron wouldn't have been able to get a good video in that place.

14
#6507 6 months ago
Quoted from cjchand:

Not that this wasn't a dead-end conversation to begin with, but after listening to the Kaneda interview, it's clear that "value" doesn't mean "value priced". Am I mis-remembering the "Ferrari for a Kia's price" line of talk from Robert?

If you ask someone about price and their response is to talk about value, you should not expect that it will be cheap.

#6508 6 months ago
Quoted from cjchand:

Not that this wasn't a dead-end conversation to begin with, but after listening to the Kaneda interview, it's clear that "value" doesn't mean "value priced". Am I mis-remembering the "Ferrari for a Kia's price" line of talk from Robert?
Since Robert was not happy people were thinking RAZA needed to be priced at/below Stern Pro pricing, my armchair financing exercise is even less pointless than when I started.
So, what shall we all argue about now?

You're not mis-remembering.

He went on ad nauseum about doing stuff cheaper, undercutting the competition, doing more volume, and price points between $3500 & $50k.

The seeming implication that RAZA could be priced towards the higher end of the market, with him claiming in the interview that it arguably had as much as a Wonka CE (it certainly doesn't under the glass) seems totally out of touch with reality, even if they do bling out the final version.

One thing I agreed with him entirely about is how Jpop's designs will be a very niche market. Small market = big price, and if he wants any return on investment (which he said he did), then they won't be cheap after the vast amount of time and money spent.

He bounced from hyperbole to managing expectations throughout the interview. But there were some hints that he realised JPop's stuff *could* be a total bust.

Still very much hoping the others won't have been compromised by JPop spending and design choices.

#6509 6 months ago

Is it possible to "disrupt" the pinball market with another mid to high tier manufacturer? We already know Stern Pros outsell everything else by a large margin, and everyone else is fighting over a small piece of the pie.

#6510 6 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

He knew I made them. I didn’t take it personally, the environment was not great for video capture. I do wish I’d brought streaming gear, but that’s not as simple as it sounds. For example, how do you get permission to stream from the conference and the attendees? Plus the internet situation in there was poor, which made even uploading cellphone footage difficult. I captured the videos in 4K but they ended up very low res when sent over iMessage. Even when I got back to the room and sent them to YouTube they only went over as 1080.

YouTube does 4K, but not in Safari. Try Chrome.

34
#6511 6 months ago
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#6512 6 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

Is it possible to "disrupt" the pinball market with another mid to high tier manufacturer? We already know Stern Pros outsell everything else by a large margin, and everyone else is fighting over a small piece of the pie.

Yeah, Robert has cast himself in this ridiculous David vs. Goliath role (with he the courageous, plucky, fig-leaf wearing David and Stern the Goliath) when in fact his competition is American pinball.

There's almost nothing about any of this nonsense that makes sense.

#6513 6 months ago

Of course Pinside is a target customer for Deeproot and we are the biggest organized pinball group. Pinsiders play pinball and buy pinball machines and Deeproot is planning to make and sell pinball machines, right? Robert wants educated customers who see value and Pinside is already tuned into looking for features and mechs. WTF is Robert thinking?

12
#6514 6 months ago

Sounds like Robert is used to being the one that holds the microphone and hence the only one that can be heard.. and can't cope with the environment where others have just as equal voice as he does.

You can easily just ignore the dead-horse beaters and trolls.. and still function fine here. The problem becomes is when the company/individual can't accept they can't shutdown or out-shout the dissenting opinion going against their narrative.

Why would you go on a podcast if you decry the online community? Because it's a broadcast platform - not open turf. Same reason outcasts flock to youtube/podcasting.. they alone control the conversation in their content.

#6515 6 months ago

I thought it was very odd that he tried to make it very clear that Deeproot money was "his money" and that there are "no investors". Was he just using jargon wordplay or is that correct? I thought there was evidence of this being some sort of investment vehicle, no?

#6516 6 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'm ready for some hot Jpop action for the price of a Kia. Bring that shit on!
What's left for John to rob from the EM graveyard? Rototargets? Flipping Flags?

Ha! Looks like I was right. This is from a year ago.

The roto is back! Shoulda brought back the flipping flags. Way cooler.

#6517 6 months ago
Quoted from cjchand:

Am I mis-remembering the "Ferrari for a Kia's price" line of talk from Robert?

I believe this is simply a case of reality sinking in. Robert came to Pinside with as a hypeman. It might be best to just own up to taking things to far with a statement about simply wanting to drive excitement about his new company and echoing that the mistakes he was seeing in the current manufacturing processes were not going to be acceptable at Deeproot. Admit that he took things a little too far, ask for forgiveness, and move forward with a vague promise of exciting things to come.

#6518 6 months ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I disagree . After listening to the interview , I thought he was putting down " Z Y " but then realised what he had said and tried to backtrack .

Might be worth listening again.... well, My selective hearing did not hear it that way at least. I did listen to it again after the misguided post, just because the post description sounded way off to me, compared to what I heard RM saying. Confirmed, I believe It Was way off (the post). Also confirmed by ZY.... after discovering what pinside said was essentially Rubbish(ing).

Zidware art was a "hack-job", as in still not integrated to theme/story. He speaks in the same context on both Zidware and DR RAZA. People not comprehending context is where half this nonsense comes from on pinside, I'm replying to your post because it fails to consider.... the same as Chris seemed to fail to consider, requiring RM to clarify. Which he did. But people still know better, that is pinside.... and why manufacturers and designers are smart to stay out of here, unfortunately.

#6519 6 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

I thought it was very odd that he tried to make it very clear that Deeproot money was "his money" and that there are "no investors". Was he just using jargon wordplay or is that correct? I thought there was evidence of this being some sort of investment vehicle, no?

No, just pinside "expert opinion" ... speculation taken as facts.... again.

19
#6520 6 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

and why manufacturers and designers are smart to stay out of here, unfortunately.

It's not "unfortunate," it's a positive sign. It's completely unprofessional for the CEO of a pinball company to be on Pinside duking it out in the mud with everybody and acting like an asshole. That's OUR job, not theirs. That's why you don't see Jack here. That's why you don't see Gary here. That's why you rarely see Charlie here, and even the Planetary Pinball guy stopped fighting with people here and simply started cranking out successful remakes one after the other. If you are running a pinball company, you have better things to do than argue with people on pinside and talk shit about all of the other companies, designers, artists, etc. It's completely unprofessional and counterproductive.

It's not surprising it took RM TWO YEARS to figure that out, but then he's learning as he goes along, isn't he? Now that he's figured that small detail he out, he can work on the other 6.2 million details that going into actually producing a pinball machine.

Hopefully the learning curve on that is faster than it was on figuring out he had a better use of his time than beefing on Pinside. Though that Kaneda appearance doesn't inspire much confidence.

#6521 6 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Of course Pinside is a target customer for Deeproot and we are the biggest organized pinball group. Pinsiders play pinball and buy pinball machines and Deeproot is planning to make and sell pinball machines, right? Robert wants educated customers who see value and Pinside is already tuned into looking for features and mechs. WTF is Robert thinking?

Pinside, the threads like this one, has proven to be little more than a Circus made up largely of misinformed comments, by people whom think they know, and by god don't dare come forth to stick up for yourself or the pitchforks will be flying thick and fast!! lol

Stern designers left, stern never gets involved, RM is only the same story. Designers, Stay Away from the pinside cesspool!!, threads like this one, for the most part, appear to be just a place for pinheads to argue about their imaginary crap!. Throw around "thoughts"

Designers/manufacturers.... Read, of course.... but good idea to take most of what is written in here with a BIG pinch of salt! .... and definitely think twice before posting!! ...or just don't (feed the Trolls).

#6522 6 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's not "unfortunate." It's completely unprofessional for the CEO of a pinball company to be on Pinside duking it out in the mud with everybody and acting like an asshole. That's OUR job, not theirs. That's why you don't see Jack here. That's why you don't see Gary here. That's why you rarely see Charlie here, and even the Planetary Pinball guy stopped fighting with people here and simply started cranking out successful remakes one after the other. If you are running a pinball company, you have better things to do than argue with people on pinside and talk shit about all of the other companies, designers, artists, etc. It's completely unprofessional.
It's not surprising it took RM TWO YEARS to figure that out, but then he's learning as he goes along, isn't he? Now that he's figured that small detail he out, he can work on the other 6.2 million details that going into actually producing a pinball machine.
Hopefully the learning curve on that is faster than it was on figuring out he had a better use of his time than beefing on Pinside. Though that Kaneda appearance doesn't inspire much confidence.

Yeah... it is unfortunate!

Trolls, and people with poor comprehension.

#6523 6 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Might be worth listening again.... well, My selective hearing did not hear it that way at least. I did listen to it again after the misguided post, just because the post description sounded way off to me, compared to what I heard RM saying. Confirmed, I believe It Was way off (the post). Also confirmed by ZY.... after discovering what pinside said was essentially Rubbish(ing).
Zidware art was a "hack-job", as in still not integrated to theme/story. He speaks in the same context on both Zidware and DR RAZA. People not comprehending context is where half this nonsense comes from on pinside, I'm replying to your post because it fails to consider.... the same as Chris seemed to fail to consider, requiring RM to clarify. Which he did. But people still know better, that is pinside.... and why manufacturers and designers are smart to stay out of here, unfortunately.

What I don’t get is being so sensitive to the marketing or talk. Worst case scenario: a new company come in the market and add competitivity , better choice for the customer, the competiters might propose new things, price decrease, who knows... maybe and big risk taken from DR could hurt who? It’s their money... For an anemic industry with nothing new for decades... (aside P3 again). Some of the guys in here who for some will never buy those pins anyway has nothing else to do in their life but bashing and others will change their mind with the wind in couple months if successful?

Only one thing is sure: you don’t want to spread too much informations, because some are spending all their time and life conjecturing all the potential failures, wow so great... those so brillant, for most, has never started any project but all their life is in here.

Pinball is hard but even harder with no support whatsoever and flames.

13
#6524 6 months ago

Not providing a defense but rather perspective . Over the years, I have heard "figure heads" make what I feel were sketchy if not downright blustery comments. RM has done the same. HOWEVER I think painting pinside black as a whole is a TERRIBLE thing to do. The man is obviously frustrated, and if I had to guess he's extremely proud of his work and let's face it, no one in this world enjoys having people attack/poop on something you feel like you put your blood, sweat and tears into. Not to mention he's trying to offer us something and he likely feels the comments being made here are proof that he shouldn't even bother (thus the losing interest comment in the interview).
I think everyone (pinsiders and RM) need to pull their damn horns in.
My sun will rise and set whether RM succeeds or fails. I wish DR nothing but best wishes and hope a voice of reason at that company reads my comments and realizes not all of pinside deserves to be on a proverbial black list. Most of us just want to help things be the best they can be!

#6525 6 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

I thought it was very odd that he tried to make it very clear that Deeproot money was "his money" and that there are "no investors". Was he just using jargon wordplay or is that correct? I thought there was evidence of this being some sort of investment vehicle, no?

Yes, RM very condescendingly said he was laughing at everyone who was speculating about his/deeproot's financial situation. Of course, he didn't offer to clarify any of the apparent misconceptions. Which is of course his right; however, providing information is a much better form of communication IMO, than mocking statements.

#6526 6 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Pinside, the threads like this one, has proven to be little more than a Circus made up largely of misinformed comments, by people whom think they know, and by god don't dare come forth to stick up for yourself or the pitchforks will be flying thick and fast!! lol
Stern designers left, stern never gets involved, RM is only the same story. Designers, Stay Away from the pinside cesspool!!, threads like this one, for the most part, appear to be just a place for pinheads to argue about their imaginary crap!. Throw around "thoughts"
Designers/manufacturers.... Read, of course.... but good idea to take most of what is written in here with a BIG pinch of salt! .... and definitely think twice before posting!! ...or just don't (feed the Trolls).

Except that I don't think that pinball manufacturers and designers who conduct themselves with dignity, and transparency, should have any real problems here. RM's problem was that sometimes he can be a trash-talking braggart, and people love to try and take down people like that. Mike from Homepin ran into the very same issues. Also, Stern didn't run into any real problems on the pinside forums, until after they started having insert/playfield issues back in 2016 with Ghostbusters. That's when Stern started getting a lot of hate comments, and because as a company they have never fully and properly addressed the various and ongoing playfield/quality issues, they can't for the most part engage with pinside. Aside from Nordman, who seems to still get away with the occasional post.

Show me a pinball company that's taking a lot flack on pinside, and I'll bet you 100% of the time you'll find technical, quality, or communication problems coming from said pinball company/representative.

#6527 6 months ago

I don’t blame RM for considering this thread a toxic wasteland. I doubt he actually meant all of pinside is bad. Plenty of helpful people around, but the hyper posters which are 1% of the users but make up like 50% of the replies can get old fast. Especially once it becomes an echo chamber

I also think this style of forum is harder to read compared to something like Reddit, which is its own mixture of a good community and tire fire. Lots of good posts quickly get buried in these long threads full of noise.

#6528 6 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Pinsiders play pinball

Debatable

#6529 6 months ago

Pinsiders argue on Pinside

#6530 6 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Except that I don't think that pinball manufacturers and designers who conduct themselves with dignity, and transparency, should have any real problems here. RM's problem was that sometimes he can be a trash-talking braggart, and people love to try and take down people like that. Mike from Homepin ran into the very same issues. Also, Stern didn't run into any real problems on the pinside forums, until after they started having insert/playfield issues back in 2016 with Ghostbusters. That's when Stern started getting a lot of hate comments, and because as a company they have never fully and properly addressed the various and ongoing playfield/quality issues, they can't for the most part engage with pinside. Aside from Nordman, who seems to still get away with the occasional post.
Show me a pinball company that's taking a lot flack on pinside, and I'll bet you 100% of the time you'll find technical, quality, or communication problems coming from said pinball company/representative.

I've had a few discussions with Jersey Jack. He had some not so rosy things to say about his competitors. He doesn't post on Pinside. Smart man. Robert's learning. Lots of Pinball people start out here and quickly realize they have nothing to gain and then disappear.

#6531 6 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

I've had a few discussions with Jersey Jack. He had some not so rosy things to say about his competitors. He doesn't post on Pinside. Smart man. Robert's learning. Lots of Pinball people start out here and quickly realize they have nothing to gain and then disappear.

Does the GE CEO post on a toaster oven forum? Is the Barcolounger CFO telling people on the furniture forum that La-Z-Boy is "weak" that "the bigger they are the harder they fall?," while talking shit about various other people in the industry on a podcast?

NO.

I don't understand why pinball attracts such lunatics. "Robert's learning?" Ok so it took two years for him to figure out not to carry on like that here, but he's still going to Kaneda with the same act. Another two years from now and maybe he'll figure out that's not smart too?

How anybody could have faith that this is going to be a successful enterprise is a complete mystery to me.

#6532 6 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

As someone who'd internationally optimized manufacturing & development processes in automotive companies:

It is possible.

As someone who also does that in the aerospace industry I also agree. Pinball is just a microcosm of other larger industries. Titans are falling right and left. To think you can't be outsmarted but smaller, leaner, disruptive, more agile companies is dangerous thinking. Of course you can lean out the manufacturing process, improve quality, for less. There is little incentive for Stern to do that because people are throwing money at every new machine they reveal. Ripe for a disruptor to come along and shake up the market.

#6533 6 months ago

Truth is that if most or all the manufacturers say they hate Pinside or it is useless then Pinsiders are doing exactly what they should be doing. These manufacturers hate Pinside because the pressure it puts on them makes them improve their product. What that means to the manufacturers is Pinside is cutting into their profits. It is that simple. If all these manufacturers loved Pinside all that would mean is we were allowing them to make the cheapest most profitable machines. Their hate just tells me Pinside is serving it’s purpose as a great advocate for the pinball consumers. It is a badge of honor........

#6534 6 months ago

How about they sell a kit version for enthusiasts? That and direct sales could lower consumer cost.

#6535 6 months ago
alice.gif
#6536 6 months ago
Quoted from kdecgp:

How about they sell a kit version for enthusiasts? That and direct sales could lower consumer cost.

There's about 4 million reasons why this will never happen.

Most of them are related to insurance and lawsuit possibilities when someone blows up their house.

#6537 6 months ago
Quoted from kdecgp:

How about they sell a kit version for enthusiasts? That and direct sales could lower consumer cost.

I can't even fathom how many emails they would get each day with questions or complaints that something isn't working.

#6538 6 months ago
Quoted from SkillShot:

YouTube does 4K, but not in Safari. Try Chrome.

Or don't. Chrome and Chromium-based browsers (pretty much everything except Firefox now) are a privacy disaster.

#6539 6 months ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

I can't even fathom how many emails they would get each day with questions or complaints that something isn't working.

Yeah pretty sure even Radio Shack never tried to sell a DIY pinball machine.

-10
#6540 6 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

How anybody could have faith that this is going to be a successful enterprise is a complete mystery to me.

Perhaps I can lift the shroud of mystery for you. I study and teach this stuff for a living and, while you may not like his style, I read the tea leaves as he knows exactly what he's doing and I think he is setting DR up for success. His team is designing for manufacturing as he is developing the product. He's laying down the architectural runaway for production (he calls the DR Package). When he talks about innovation hes not talking just about some crazy new mech never before seen, he's talking incremental improvements in the manufacturing process, materials and design. DR is learning, reacting to data and pivoting as they go. They're incorporating lean-agile thinking which is a deep and rich set of tools, principles and behaviors. He's not trying to develop one perfect machine but setting up products for different segments of the market. On top of that he seems to have the capital and, most importantly, a vision to pull it off.

#6541 6 months ago
Quoted from konjurer:

Perhaps I can lift the shroud of mystery for you. I study and teach this stuff for a living and, while you may not like his style, I read the tea leaves as he knows exactly what he's doing and I think he is setting DR up for success. His team is designing for manufacturing as he is developing the product. He's laying down the architectural runaway for production (he calls the DR Package). When he talks about innovation hes not talking just about some crazy new mech never before seen, he's talking incremental improvements in the manufacturing process, materials and design. DR is learning, reacting to data and pivoting as they go. They're incorporating lean-agile thinking which is a deep and rich set of tools, principles and behaviors. He's not trying to develop one perfect machine but setting up products for different segments of the market. On top of that he seems to have the capital and, most importantly, a vision to pull it off.

Wow. Thanks for clearing that up.

65 percent market share by 2021. I'm on board.

#6542 6 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Wow. Thanks for clearing that up.

No problem!

16
#6543 6 months ago
Quoted from konjurer:

I read the tea leaves as he knows exactly what he's doing and I think he is setting DR up for success.

... or he's just using buzzwords and saying things you want to hear. So far the vast majority of what he's said has been proven false or overly ambitious. Shame on him. Now he's saying more things, and you continue to believe him. Shame on you?

28
#6544 6 months ago
Quoted from konjurer:

Perhaps I can lift the shroud of mystery for you. I study and teach this stuff for a living and, .

Pretty fascinating breakdown teach.

So you teach this stuff in school? This is how you do it, by the textbook? Allow me to play the crusty old do-nothing economics professor to your revolutionary, real world genius Rodney Dangerfield.

Looking to make some money? Enter a crowded, low-margin, niche marketplace where failure is the norm and startup costs are high that you really don't know anything about and try to make a go of it!

Staffing? Hire a bunch of old people off the street who have been out of the industry for years, and make sure the staff is massive. Pay them for years without earning any income.

Launching your first product? Do a half ass prototype reveal at a trade show that is guaranteed to underwhelm!

Promotion? Get online and talk shit about your competition, make promises you continually fail to live up to over 2 years, alienate and insult your intended market, and then hop on to a podcast to talk more shit about the competition!

This is business 101? Where do you teach, may I ask? You know, in case anybody I know is looking for a business school.

#6545 6 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

No, just pinside "expert opinion" ... speculation taken as facts.... again.

Don't fall for the word smithing... 'his money' probably means 'his company's money'... and go and find out where his companies make money from and where he came from. Psst.. none of it is selling hard goods.

#6546 6 months ago
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

You don't suck, your just not as good as the gals you hang with.

From seeming like eons ago, sorry for the late reply here.

Haha, I do! I hope they can continually beat me, then point back, and tell anyone that will listen who gave them some pointers, long long ago....

More importantly, I trust you're onbard Chris to pick up some of these for Helicon, Starport, and maybe that other venue you mentioned awhile back.

#6547 6 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Pretty fascinating breakdown teach.
So you teach this stuff in school? This is how you do it, by the textbook? Allow me to play the crusty old do-nothing economics professor to your revolutionary, real world genius Rodney Dangerfield.
Looking to make some money? Enter a crowded, low-margin, niche marketplace where failure is the norm and startup costs are high that you really don't know anything about and try to make a go of it!
Staffing? Hire a bunch of old people off the street who have been out of the industry for years, and make sure the staff is massive. Pay them for years without earning any income.
Launching your first product? Do a half ass prototype reveal at a trade show that is guaranteed to underwhelm!
Promotion? Get online and talk shit about your competition, make promises you continually fail to live up to over 2 years, alienate and insult your intended market, and then hop on to a podcast to talk more shit about the competition!
This is business 101? Where do you teach, may I ask? You know, in case anybody I know is looking for a business school.

Octomanufacturing is the special sauce you haven't accounted for Levi... it's gonna smoke everyone!

It will magically expand the market to absorb a dozen new product releases... it will create product on-demand with no learning curve or forecasts... It will deliver product innovations beyond what any industry experts have been able to flush out in their 50+ years of experience.

It's just so god damn powerful its majesty couldn't be contained with a simple podcast. The 5 days of deeproot will unleash Octomanufacturing on the world and it will never be the same again.

#6548 6 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Octomanufacturing is the special sauce you haven't accounted for Levi... it's gonna smoke everyone!
It will magically expand the market to absorb a dozen new product releases... it will create product on-demand with no learning curve or forecasts... It will deliver product innovations beyond what any industry experts have been able to flush out in their 50+ years of experience.
It's just so god damn powerful its majesty couldn't be contained with a simple podcast. The 5 days of deeproot will unleash Octomanufacturing on the world and it will never be the same again.

8 days of deep root sounds like it would have more synergy with octomanu.

17
#6549 6 months ago
Quoted from konjurer:

I study and teach this stuff for a living and, while you may not like his style, I read the tea leaves as he knows exactly what he's doing and I think he is setting DR up for success.

You know what they say, those who can't do, teach.

People love bullshit. They love it so much! they love getting sold a big heaping pile of bullshit because ordinary life is just so fucking boring.

Robert is a straight up old fashioned bullshit artist. Talks a huge game and raises a ton of money and two or more years later all he has to show is walking back all his braggadocio and resetting expectations. He wasn't wrong back then, you just misunderstood that when he said "cheaper than stern", clearly his tea leaves meant "more expensive than stern". There's no amount of lean-agile process that will make up for a potential 10 million dollar hole they have to dig themselves out of. And you can expect if they're actually going to make things next year they're going to have to expend millions more in tooling, insurance, staff, utility cost... I don't expect Deeproot can continue to sell shares forever.

-6
#6550 6 months ago
Quoted from konjurer:

Perhaps I can lift the shroud of mystery for you. I study and teach this stuff for a living and, while you may not like his style, I read the tea leaves as he knows exactly what he's doing and I think he is setting DR up for success. His team is designing for manufacturing as he is developing the product. He's laying down the architectural runaway for production (he calls the DR Package). When he talks about innovation hes not talking just about some crazy new mech never before seen, he's talking incremental improvements in the manufacturing process, materials and design. DR is learning, reacting to data and pivoting as they go. They're incorporating lean-agile thinking which is a deep and rich set of tools, principles and behaviors. He's not trying to develop one perfect machine but setting up products for different segments of the market. On top of that he seems to have the capital and, most importantly, a vision to pull it off.

Oh dear, a post based on sensible reasoned observation and knowledge!! ... but wait, no, pinsiders in this deeproot bashing joke "boutique" pinball thread won't have that! . How will the stern fan club deal with such reason? ... my bet is there will be dozens douche bag trollers come along and downvote the above post, and start waving around pitchforks in a rage of disgust!!

Heck this post on it's own will probably get a 4 to 1 DV ratio from the troll sector on it's own! ... in a thread like this, that is merely a compliment

The thread is more a joke than valid information (everyone goes elswhere for info with validity). Seems to be why most are here.... stiring crap and entertainment

Continue!

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